Thread: Menthol as a Dream Enhancer

Originally Posted by Xanous

Hey, so it seems like a lot of people dropped out of this thread. I stopped because I wasn't obtaining lucidity but I have been thinking of ways to mix with my other lucid aids. I'd like to keep things fresh so that my body doesn't get used to any one thing.

Whats the overall conclusion here? Is there any idea about time to peek plasma levels or half-life elimination. (sorry this is a huge thread or I'd try to read it all)

It seems like menthol would make a good companion to my other aids. I may start working this in again.

No we never came to a conclusion on peek plasma levels, I think the most significant effect we've seen is that menthol seems to produce similar effects to salvia divinorium, which is what alyzarin was going for. I personally have alot of wacky and fantasy rich dreams so it was hard to see that differences mint tea caused but it seems like the dreams almost always contained more sexual themes/ grimy dark themes/ execessively bright,colourfull and fantasy like themes than usual.
It's definetely worth the shot and I can say it works but you'll have to see for yourself.

Oh Salvia divinorum.... Interesting. Well, I will post if I work start working it in again. Lucid or not its still interesting.

Quote Xanous:

Hey, so it seems like a lot of people dropped out of this thread. I stopped because I wasn't obtaining lucidity but I have been thinking of ways to mix with my other lucid aids. I'd like to keep things fresh so that my body doesn't get used to any one thing.

I generally lurk, and I have been known to have the odd lozenge, or two... or three on the quiet.

It is a good idea you have Xanous regarding keeping your body (and thus mind) fresh, when in regard to taking supplements, etc.

*pops in*

Here's something I just found that you guys might find interesting.

Dynorphins regulate fear memory: from mice to men.

Basically, what it's saying is that dynorphin, which works through kappa-opioid receptors just like menthol, is important in getting rid of fear. Furthermore, it suggests that dynorphins enhance communication between the ventromedial prefrontal cortex and the amygdala. The amygdala is, I'm fairly certain, the part of the brain that loads our schemas and creates the dream world by stimulating the hippocampus. It's also largely our emotional mind. What's interesting is that, as far as I'm aware, when it comes to the prefrontal cortex it's the dorsal part that shuts down during regular, non-lucid dreams (and presumably reactivates during lucids), while the ventral part stays active, and the dorsal PFC is responsible for rational thought while the ventral PFC handles emotional thought. That's why in a regular dream emotions can be so intense without any logical input, and this would suggest that dynorphin enhances that. In addition, the amygdala has been implicated especially in aggression, sexual behavior, and euphoria (in relation to things like depression). Definitely the first things that come to mind are (a) the dark themed dreams/nightmares of menthol particularly like in the thread that spawned this one, (b) the sexual dreams, of course, and (c) the pure happiness dreams that Kaomea experienced. Couple that with the loss of fear that would translate into more confidence, and it seems to pull together well for me....

Anyway, that's all I can say for now, I need to head out!

Thurs Feb 21st 2013

Dose: 5-HTP 50 mg (Bed) 29.1mg Cough drops (WBTB)
Side Effects: Gripey stomach
Sleep Duration: 6 hrs before/3 hrs after
WBTB: Yes (31 min)
Lucid: YES
Vividness: Average/Good
Stability: Average
Dream Comments: WBTB Incubation. Bizarre lucid transition type dream (DILD) coupled with a sexual theme and post hypnagogic imagery.
The transition was fairly memorable, although in hindsight I’m glad that it was written down at the time.

5-HTP and Menthol – (DILD) - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views


"What, you took... supplements! - On a 'school' day!!!"

Originally Posted by Xanous

Whats the overall conclusion here? Is there any idea about time to peek plasma levels or half-life elimination. (sorry this is a huge thread or I'd try to read it all)
.

"The half�-life of menthol glucuronide after oral menthol dosing is about 50 minutes in plasma and 74 minutes in urine, although there appears to be a longer terminal half�-life, most likely due to the slow release of the highly lipid�]soluble menthol from body tissues and/or due to enterohepatic recirculation (Gelal 1999)."

-http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AdvisoryCommittees/CommitteesMeetingMaterials/TobaccoProductsScientificAdvisoryCommittee/UCM244975.pdf

I read that the half life was 50 minutes in a few other places, too. So, I'm not sure what effect the menthol itself can really be having, because people seem to be reporting effects on their dreams when they've taken menthol before bed...which means that the menthol would be lasting around 6 times longer than its supposed.

I don't know what the metabolites of the menthol are, though. If menthol really is having an effect on dreams, it his to be indirectly via metabolites, or activating some other process in the body.

Originally Posted by Highlander

Thurs Feb 21st 2013

Dose: 5-HTP 50 mg (Bed) 29.1mg Cough drops (WBTB)
Side Effects: Gripey stomach
Sleep Duration: 6 hrs before/3 hrs after
WBTB: Yes (31 min)
Lucid: YES
Vividness: Average/Good
Stability: Average
Dream Comments: WBTB Incubation. Bizarre lucid transition type dream (DILD) coupled with a sexual theme and post hypnagogic imagery.
The transition was fairly memorable, although in hindsight I’m glad that it was written down at the time.

5-HTP and Menthol – (DILD) - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views


"What, you took... supplements! - On a 'school' day!!!"

On a school day!? You madman!

Another success! It sounds like it was getting interesting in the end there. X) That's intense!

Originally Posted by Alucinor XIII

"The half�-life of menthol glucuronide after oral menthol dosing is about 50 minutes in plasma and 74 minutes in urine, although there appears to be a longer terminal half�-life, most likely due to the slow release of the highly lipid�]soluble menthol from body tissues and/or due to enterohepatic recirculation (Gelal 1999)."

-http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AdvisoryCommittees/CommitteesMeetingMaterials/TobaccoProductsScientificAdvisoryCommittee/UCM244975.pdf

I read that the half life was 50 minutes in a few other places, too. So, I'm not sure what effect the menthol itself can really be having, because people seem to be reporting effects on their dreams when they've taken menthol before bed...which means that the menthol would be lasting around 6 times longer than its supposed.

I don't know what the metabolites of the menthol are, though. If menthol really is having an effect on dreams, it his to be indirectly via metabolites, or activating some other process in the body.

As I think I might have mentioned before, I'm willing to believe that it's some sort of post-effect reaction for when it's taken before bed. Smoking salvia before bed can have profound effects on dreams as well, and its active chemical, salvinorin A, works through the kappa-opioid receptor too and has an even shorter half-life than menthol.

A few more months and I can start distilling some peppermint oil again. The first time didn't go to well because I did everything wrong but now there is a lot of time and I can improve on my previous distillation design.

Good info Alucinor XIII. I've only noticed any effect with WBTB.

Also I should mention I took 36.4mg menthol in cough drop form during WBTB a few nights ago. I had a very VIVID and fun NLD with no side effects.

Originally Posted by dutchraptor

A few more months and I can start distilling some peppermint oil again. The first time didn't go to well because I did everything wrong but now there is a lot of time and I can improve on my previous distillation design.

I can't wait to hear how this goes! It should provide some intriguing results.

Originally Posted by Xanous

Good info Alucinor XIII. I've only noticed any effect with WBTB.

Also I should mention I took 36.4mg menthol in cough drop form during WBTB a few nights ago. I had a very VIVID and fun NLD with no side effects.

Any particular themes or was it just really enjoyable? (Keep in mind that even an unusual amount of just happiness and contentedness has been consistently noted before!)

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Any particular themes or was it just really enjoyable? (Keep in mind that even an unusual amount of just happiness and contentedness has been consistently noted before!)

Vivid and action packed with a sense of adventure. I was nearly lucid at one point. I Am Hobbit - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Fri Feb 22nd 2013

Dose: H & L cough drops (x3)= 29.1mg (WBTB)
Side Effects: Generally ok/light sleep
Sleep Duration: 5.75 hrs before/2.5 hrs after
WBTB: Yes (46 min inc. cat nap)
Lucid: YES
Vividness: Very good/Excellent
Stability: Very good
Dream Comments: Very strong inertia beforehand. Very good stability during DILD. Nice and crisp visuals. Clear thoughts. A good level of control up to a point. Sinister overtone at one stage.

Menthol on a school day! (DILD) - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Originally Posted by Xanous

Vivid and action packed with a sense of adventure. I was nearly lucid at one point. I Am Hobbit - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Nice! Going to read it now.

Originally Posted by Highlander

Fri Feb 22nd 2013

Dose: H & L cough drops (x3)= 29.1mg (WBTB)
Side Effects: Generally ok/light sleep
Sleep Duration: 5.75 hrs before/2.5 hrs after
WBTB: Yes (46 min inc. cat nap)
Lucid: YES
Vividness: Very good/Excellent
Stability: Very good
Dream Comments: Very strong inertia beforehand. Very good stability during DILD. Nice and crisp visuals. Clear thoughts. A good level of control up to a point. Sinister overtone at one stage.

Woo! Man, it really works for you a lot. Are these your first times using menthol again for a while?

Originally Posted by Highlander

Menthol on a school day! (DILD) - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

You crazy son of a bitch! You'll kill us all with your reckless ways!

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Woo! Man, it really works for you a lot. Are these your first times using menthol again for a while?!

Yes, I think I took some on back end of last year. I had an excellent dream on the 31st of Dec 2012. I haven't used it much this year so far.
I do seem to get a more vivid dream from using it at times, although I do think that my WBTB and relaxation routine seems to help me.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

You crazy son of a bitch! You'll kill us all with your reckless ways!

Oh no.. who killed Kenny?

I still have a third of a pack left, although I will save them for later in the week and make do with a 'normal' WBTB tomorrow.

I've done several trials with menthol and it's time that I stopped being lazy and reported my results:

02/04/2013 - 2 bags peppermint tea at WBTB
Result: 3 vivid non-lucids, 1 lucid fragment
Mood: Comical. One dream was very dark-themed but non-disturbing.

02/08/2013 - 3 bags peppermint tea at WBTB
Result: Lucid dream
Mood: Relaxed, nostalgic, curious.
Lucid DJ Entry: The Menthol Arcade - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

02/11/2013 - 3 bags peppermint tea pre-bed. Short sleep.
Result: Vivid dream early in night.
Mood: Relaxed but introspective. (Had a lot on my mind IWL.)

02/15/2013 - 3 bags peppermint tea WBTB.
Result: Vivid dreams.
Mood: Anxious. One was pre-apocalyptic.

02/18/2013 - 3 bags peppermint tea WBTB. (Short sleep that night.)
Result: Vivid dream w/ some random sexual overtones. Some insomnia.
Mood: Detached.

02/22/2013 - 6 bags peppermint tea WBTB. Added 400mg L-theanine to ward off insomnia.
Result: Sexy (but non-explicit) lucid dream
Lucid DJ Entry: Losing My Grip - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
Mood: Sexytime.

From what I've seen so far, I need to make pretty strong tea to get the expected results. Fortunately, peppermint tea tastes awesome! 6 bags of my brand seemed to yield the most noticeable change in mood, but I'll have to keep experimenting. This is the one area where I'm a little jealous of the folks running this experiment with cough drops -- you have a much clearer idea of how much menthol you're consuming. I have basically no clue.

Anyway, this is a great experiment and I'll be continuing to rotate menthol through on my lucid aids schedule. Thanks for all of your research and hard work, Alyzarin!

That is awesome canis, seems to be working alright.
I got my steam distillation set up, it looks really pro, I made it all all out of copper and glass and a bit of solder.

Originally Posted by dutchraptor

I got my steam distillation set up, it looks really pro, I made it all all out of copper and glass and a bit of solder.

Thanks, Dutch! And that distillation system is just indescribably boss, man. I love it!

BTW, I remember you mentioning a while back that tea bags were a pretty poor source of menthol compared to getting some good tea leaves. Hypothetically, imagine that I am a lazy bastard who enjoys peppermint tea but wants to put the minimal possible effort into brewing. Do you think that results would be dramatically better buying peppermint leaves online and brewing those vs. just piling on a million teabags as I'm doing currently?

Hmm that's a tough one, I can't really say for certain. I don't think it's worth the effort buying leaves because they have to be fresh and collected at the right time to get the most out of them, and I don't really know how much menthol is in your teabags. You would be better off buying peppermint essential oil, considering the average we take is around 30mg and a 5g bottle costs around 4 dollars I think you should be able to last almost 50 days off a bottle.
Although you should be weary not to overdose on menthol, as long a you take less then 500mg I think most people are unaffected.

Originally Posted by Highlander

Yes, I think I took some on back end of last year. I had an excellent dream on the 31st of Dec 2012. I haven't used it much this year so far.
I do seem to get a more vivid dream from using it at times, although I do think that my WBTB and relaxation routine seems to help me.

Definitely, I'd say you're just getting better as a lucid dreamer overall and the menthol is just a nice little boost here and there.

Originally Posted by Highlander

Oh no.. who killed Kenny?

I still have a third of a pack left, although I will save them for later in the week and make do with a 'normal' WBTB tomorrow.

Sounds like a plan. I still have some cough drops somewhere around here lol. Hmmm....

I had a dream where Kenny died recently.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

I've done several trials with menthol and it's time that I stopped being lazy and reported my results:

...

From what I've seen so far, I need to make pretty strong tea to get the expected results. Fortunately, peppermint tea tastes awesome! 6 bags of my brand seemed to yield the most noticeable change in mood, but I'll have to keep experimenting. This is the one area where I'm a little jealous of the folks running this experiment with cough drops -- you have a much clearer idea of how much menthol you're consuming. I have basically no clue.

Anyway, this is a great experiment and I'll be continuing to rotate menthol through on my lucid aids schedule. Thanks for all of your research and hard work, Alyzarin!

Thanks for all that info! And you're quite welcome, but we've really just been piecing together information from other sources, and everyone here has helped bring in the results at least as much as I have, and some much more. It couldn't have come through without everyone who contributed here.

Originally Posted by dutchraptor

That is awesome canis, seems to be working alright.
I got my steam distillation set up, it looks really pro, I made it all all out of copper and glass and a bit of solder.

That setup is sweet! I'm jealous.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Definitely, I'd say you're just getting better as a lucid dreamer overall and the menthol is just a nice little boost here and there.

Gee, thanks! Your'e doing quite well yourself!

I've still got to work on a quite a few things, but I would like to do a few LD related projects as in Art, techniques and devices(?) ,etc.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Sounds like a plan. I still have some cough drops somewhere around here lol. Hmmm....

I had a dream where Kenny died recently.

I seem to remember you posting a picture of you holding a bag of Menthol crystals as well!!!

Yes, I recall you mentioning about Kenny (being killed) one time in a dream as you said, "...You B*stards!"


Anyway here's today's dream!

Mon Feb 25th 2013

Dose: 5-HTP 100 mg (Bed) 38.8mg Cough drops (WBTB)
Side Effects: Gripey stomach/erection
Sleep Duration: 5.75 hrs before/3 hrs approx after
WBTB: Yes (41 min)
Lucid: YES
Vividness: Excellent
Stability: Excellent
Dream Comments: Scary pre-transition. FA. Highly stable and vivid DILD. Clear thought and control. Hypnagogia.

5-HTP and Menthol again – DILD! - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Originally Posted by Highlander

I seem to remember you posting a picture of you holding a bag of Menthol crystals as well!!!

Really? I don't remember anyone ever actually acquiring menthol crystals here...unless I missed out on something major

I think Alyzarin ordered the bag of crystals online and posted the pic.

Originally Posted by dutchraptor

Really? I don't remember anyone ever actually acquiring menthol crystals here...unless I missed out on something major

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Set for life.

***POST NUMBER 500*** Yippee!

Hehe, yeah, I've still got that bag somewhere around here. But I'm woefully lacking in milligram scales to measure it with. A friend of mine is also in need of one for... other purposes though, so I may have access to one soon. >.>