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    Thread: Menthol as a Dream Enhancer

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      ~Fantasizer~ <s><span class='glow_FF1493'>Alyzarin</span></s>'s Avatar
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      Menthol as a Dream Enhancer

      It has recently occurred to me that menthol might actually be a powerful dream enhancer and potential lucid aid, if used correctly. In order to test this out, I've decided to keep this research log. Since menthol is ridiculously easy to obtain for just about anyone, in the form of cough drops, essential oils, or possibly even pure crystals, you should feel free to post here if you give it a shot to contribute. But if not, that's fine too. I'll be giving a summary of why I think menthol can be so useful, followed by some past evidence and my first experience with it so far. Further experiences will be listed in successive posts.

      03-18-2013 Update: Hey guys! I just wanted to add something here since this thread seems to be getting a lot of activity lately. Keep in mind that my theory here about how the way menthol works was just my first big one, but we've found out a lot more about it since I made this post and come up with lots of new (possibly coexistent) theories, and the picture just seems to be getting bigger so don't just take anything as fact yet! We've still got a lot to discover so just keep an open mind and consider the angles. If you want to see more of the theories you can either read through the thread or just come to the end and see what we're focusing on at th/e moment, it's generally the most up to date anyway. That's all for now!

      Click on a list item to jump to that section.



      Why I Think It Works

      Excuse me if I get a little technical here, but I'm going to try to give a good description of just exactly why I think menthol is effective at enhancing dreams. Most of this is actually documented, and some of it is hypothesizing based on those documents. Feel free to criticize, ask for references, or add comments to anything I have to say here.

      Melanopsin, Melatonin, and the D2 Receptor: Deactivating the Pineal Gland

      I'll start with a description of each of these. Melanopsin is "a photopigment found in specialized photosensitive ganglion cells of the retina that are involved in the regulation of circadian rhythms, pupillary light reflex, and other non-visual responses to light." (Wikipedia) Essentially, melanopsin responds to light, and the more melanopsin you have the more light you perceive. Melatonin, which most people here are probably already familiar with, is a hormone that is one of the core chemicals produced by the pineal gland to regulate the light-dark cycle and the difference between REM and NREM sleep. Melatonin production is suppressed during the light and enhanced during the dark, and melatonin is correlated with NREM. It is also known that melatonin receptor agonists, like melatonin, inhibit the effects of 5-HT2A agonists, which enhance REM sleep. For this reason, I believe it's actually deactivating the pineal gland that promotes dreams and dream-like experiences, not activating it as many people seem to believe. (Not that I believe they're working towards the wrong sensations and the like through meditation, they're just calling it the wrong thing.) Melanopsin responds most strongly to blue light, and therefore, melatonin is suppressed most strongly from blue light. The D2 receptor is a G protein-coupled receptor in the brain, and other parts of the body, that responds to dopamine and other endogenous and exogenous ligands. D2 mutations have been associated with mental diseases such as schizophrenia, and many drugs which activate D2 can create dream-like experiences while awake, while the dream-like experiences of hallucinogens that work through separate mechanisms (e.g., psychedelics, which work through 5-HT2A receptors) can be reversed by drugs which block activity at D2. Effects commonly associated with D2 activation include rewarding feelings and increased power or energy, enhanced libido, and self-perpetuating anxiety (such as in panic attacks), all of which can be seen in lucid dreams (like lucid nightmares, for the last one). Furthermore, it is known that damage to the dopaminergic areas of the brain can result in a loss of dreaming. With all of this considered, I find it very likely that D2 is a very important mechanism involved in dreams.

      Now, how does this all connect? Well, anyone who has researched spiritual/religious experiences or psychedelic drugs enough should be familiar with the "white light experience". If not, then essentially what it is is a perception of light so blindingly bright that it encompasses your entire being. It's often associated with OBEs, NDEs, and high doses of hallucinogens, and can even be experienced in dreams by chance or through meditation. I believe that this white light is part of a balance in the brain, and can be both a cause and effect of upsetting this balance. Aside from the sensory distortions of psychedelics that appear even at low doses, which are not considered true hallucinations, this white light seems to go hand in hand with dreams and dream-like experiences. On an average night your brain will block out this perception of white light as part of the dream process just like it blocks out your normal perception of entering sleep paralysis every night before you start dreaming, but it's still going on in the background. It's this white light that causes melatonin levels to drop to their lowest, inhibiting NREM and allowing REM dreams to form. As I mentioned before, the action of hallucinogens can traced through the D2 receptor, and all of these hallucinogens (especially direct D2 agonists, like salvia) can cause the white light experience. This is because melanopsin-containing ganglion cells express D2 receptors, and activating those receptors thereby increases melanopsin concentrations and inhibits melatonin production.

      So there's the idea behind why the D2 receptor is important, which is significant in my explanation of menthol's usefulness. Clearly, activating this receptor is very useful as it directly enhances the mechanism by which dreams are formed. However, dopamine itself, while activating this receptor, also activates other dopamine receptors which promote wakefulness and energy, and overall will be harmful to keeping yourself in a dream. So, how do we go about activating D2 in a more efficient way?

      Phenethylamine and the CB1 Receptor: Finding the Missing Link

      Phenethylamine is another endogenous D2 agonist, a trace amine that exists naturally in the brain. Unlike dopamine, its action is much more selective in this respect, working directly on D2. Interestingly, D2 receptors actually act as a kind of flood control, lowering dopamine levels when activated. Since dopamine itself is already activating other receptors when it activates D2 receptors this effect is insignificant, however phenethylamine uses this method to directly block dopaminergic effects in certain areas of the brain, even directly blocking the effects of dopamine reuptake inhibitors like cocaine, while still creating the dream effects of D2. The CB1 receptor is another G protein-coupled receptor which responds to endocannabinoids, and drugs like THC (cannabis) and synthetic cannabinoids such as JWH-018 (Spice, K2). It is responsible for the psychoactive effects of these drugs.

      It has been known for some time that THC increases endogenous levels of phenethylamine, but it would appear that the mechanism by which this occurs is still elusive. Very little is known about this phenethylamine boost other than the fact that it happens, and it doesn't seem to be a very well-researched subject matter. However, it does seem to be the case, at least. Many drug users in certain experimentalist groups have been testing the effects of pure phenethylamine and found it to produce the same type of psychedelic dissociation produced by cannabinoids, including the potential anxiety effects at high doses, all from D2 activation. The bad thing about this is that phenethylamine alone has effects on the peripheral nervous system which would not exactly be desired for a dream aid, whereas cannabinoids seem to release it only in areas of the brain involved in creating its dream-like effects, but of course, CB1 agonists have other effects as well involved in inhibiting short-term memory, clearly limiting their usefulness as dream aids.

      From this point on an amount of guesswork is required, so please keep that in mind as you read. One of the core effects of CB1 agonists, which appears to lend itself to functional selectivity by different agonists, seems to be releasing dynorphins. Dynorphins are a class of endogenous opioid peptides that bind to certain receptors in the brain, which I'll go further into in a little bit. They are involved in a large number of processes which includes, most significantly for this discussion, circadian rhythms. They also directly lower the production of dopamine, block the effects of dopamine reuptake inhibitors, cause dysphoria and/or anxiety, and downregulate D2 receptors, while lowering dynorphin levels upregulates D2. This would imply that dynorphins are causing a direct activation of D2, as this relationship is how the brain creates tolerance. If you've read this far then you can probably already see where I'm going with this. Though there doesn't seem to have been any research done on the matter, I find it very likely from all these comparisons that dynorphins stimulate the release of phenethylamine, and that this is how CB1 agonists like THC create their dream-like effects. In fact, mice (or maybe rats, I'd have to pull up the article again) that were lacking in dynorphins were found not to have the anxiety reaction to THC, even though they should have still gotten it from phenethylamine if it was being released through a separate mechanism. So now the important question is, how are dynorphins achieving this?

      The Kappa-Opioid Receptor and the Menthol Connection

      The kappa-opioid receptor is the G protein-coupled receptor which binds dynorphins as its endogenous ligands. This makes dynorphins analogous to the mu-opioid receptor's endorphins. Drugs that bind to this receptor are known to cause hallucinations, though the recreationally used drugs that activate it (DXM, salvia) bind to other hallucinogenic receptors as well. Nonetheless, there are lesser known opioids, such as pentazocine, which have a strong kappa-opioid binding affinity in addition to their mu-opioid effects that are known to be self-limiting as analgesics because of their tendency to cause dysphoria/anxiety and hallucinations at high doses. Though dynorphins do have other minor binding affinities, it is very likely, if they really do increase concentrations of phenethylamines, that they do it through this receptor.

      Now, the important part: menthol is a kappa-opioid agonist. It is a weak agonist, but an agonist all the same. For all of the enthusiasts out there, let me put a big DISCLAIMER here: I am not suggesting in any way, shape, or form that menthol is a viable candidate for recreational use as a hallucinogen. Menthol has other effects aside from its kappa-opioid agonism which may or may not create potentially dangerous side effects at doses that would be required for a full hallucinogenic effect. I am ONLY suggesting that it may be used as an effective dream enhancement aid because the doses required are much smaller and known to be safe. Any recreational abuse of menthol is done at your own risk. Believe me, it doesn't seem like I should have to say that, but I'm sure that I do, and it doesn't hurt to play it safe.

      Anyway, the point by now should be clear. Kappa-opioid agonists seem to have fewer memory-limiting effects than cannabinoids, at least from what I've been able to find, and therefore are a better choice for dream enhancement. They surely seem to enhance dreams and recall in a more reliable way than cannabinoids, in any case. Due to the potential release of phenethylamine in only the safe parts of the brain like cannabinoids, they should also increase activity at D2 in the areas of the brain involved in dreaming, increasing melanopsin output and lowering melatonin production. And that is, in summary, why I think it works.

      Dream Experiences

      In this section I'm just going to reference a thread I responded to a few months ago, and add my experience with menthol thus far. This is what's made me consider menthol as an effective dream enhancer.

      The Inspiration

      This thread was a major player in my decision to test menthol out, after I'd looked far enough into its mechanism of action: Does anyone have these really messed up dreams? And what causes them? The thread creator was having intense nightmares and was wondering why, and it turned out that they stopped after they stopped consuming a very large quantity of menthol cough drops every night. This would correlate with strong D2 activation (the dysphoria/anxiety), but could actually be overcome if lucid to make for an intensely vivid dream... though, nightmarish doses are certainly not a requirement. At the time I had suggested to the thread creator that the menthol cough drops may have been causing their nightmares, and it turned out to be correct but I didn't think too much into it at the time because I was focused on other things. Here are just a few excerpts from the thread which highlight its point.

      Quote Originally Posted by Psyche View Post
      So, for the past few days I've been having these crazy violent dreams; but they aren't like normal nightmares I've had before, they're just these REALLY intense dreams, where I feel REALLY intense emotion and sensations, and they're like REALLY INTENSELY MESSED UP. And I remember every detail, like they feel totally real except for the strange...ness.

      ...

      But now I'm sick and having them, so maybe I'm just staying a bit more aware or it's because I'm eating so many cough drops or I DUNNO?
      Quote Originally Posted by Psyche View Post
      Hahahhhaha yup, cough drops- theyre more like little candies, but I think I've been eating more than I should. Wait, so cough drops actually might be boosting the vividness??! I actually hope they are the culprit, cuz I could just stop taking them! I haven't had any cough medicine yet though.
      Quote Originally Posted by Psyche View Post
      It's really the incredible vividness that was scaring me- sorry if my post was confusing anyone, I'm a bit confusing with organizing my thoughts!
      And! The dreams have stopped, woohoo!! Thanks guys, it was definitely the coughdrops- I later found the package I was eating before had like 8.6mg menthol a piece and I devoured that package within a few hours... xD
      I think those quotes speak for themselves here. It certainly sounds like a promising route of exploration just from that alone.

      My First Experience

      Before going to bed last night, at around 10:45 PM, I ingested 18.2 mg of menthol in the form of cough drops. Because menthol has a short half-life, it may actually be better suited for WBTBs. However, it did seem to have an effect, as it did in the above thread. It's possible that increasing the dose enough extends the half-life, or that sufficient enough kappa-opioid receptor activation allows for residual effects to still enhance dreams. This could hold with salvia, which can cause vivid dreams the night after smoking it despite having an extremely short duration of effect. This is from my dream journal entry for today.

      DJ Entry - Memory Skips, Fake-Out, Controlling The Professor

      Supplement Dose: 18.2 mg Menthol (Cough Drops)

      Weed was smoked and half a beer was consumed a while before going to bed. This probably had a slightly detrimental effect on my recall, but overall didn't seem to influence my dreams.

      #1 - Memory Skips [Non-Lucid]

      The beginning of this dream is harder to recall as I believe it happened in third-person, but there was a group of people searching for something.... A time machine? Special documents? It's hard to remember now, but something important along those lines. This group of people was the bad guys, but a couple good guys had infiltrated their ranks and was planning to sabotage them. My memory skips forward a little bit, and I remember lying naked in bed with a friend of mine. o_o I want to say it was... well, that's not important. >w< But we were just cuddling and I was getting lost in fantasy. My memory jumps forward again a little bit and now I'm walking around a store with my dad, and he's talking to someone about how he always eats all the Ritz crackers and cookies at our house and I get mad that there aren't any left, which isn't even remotely true.

      I woke up after that. The naked cuddling thing was definitely interesting... my libido was running strong in this dream, which it almost never does (unless I'm lucid). Was the menthol to blame? Hmm....

      #2 - Fake-Out [Non-Lucid]

      For this one I was actually just lying in bed for a while, and noticing that my visualization skills were REALLY strong. Everything in the previous dream had been incredibly vivid, and these mental images were no different. I was hoping it would go somewhere, but it didn't seem to be... so I sat up in bed, not realizing that it was suddenly a different bed, and opened my laptop, not realizing that I didn't have my laptop with me. I started typing stuff about the dream I'd had in, and slowly the screen started getting further and further away... until it faded out, and I woke up again. Damn! :O

      #3 - Controlling The Professor [WILD]

      Now I was just lying in bed again, still exploring the visualization. But I was also really tired still... my consciousness was drifting, but not fully fading away. Suddenly it occurred to me that there was some strange wall of bars and electricity and words that were impossible to read in front of me, it was all very confusing. Finally I decided to look away from it, and noticed that I had fully entered a dream. My second ever WILD! If that's not a testament to menthol's potential, then I don't know what is. There was a TV in front of the bed I was in that showed what looked like a Futurama video game, with the professor riding a motorcycle. Everything was extremely vivid and not unstable at all. I focused myself intently on the game trying to let it consume the whole dream, but it never happened. However, I was able to feel everything on the screen as if it was happening to me. I felt the motorcycle engine beneath me and all that stuff. I had the professor drive up all these crazy wall angles and up on to a person's back, that was fun. But then he accidentally drove off of a pier he was on and into the water, abandoning his motorcycle and swimming into a vortex of psychedelic-like mermaid faces as he did so. My libido was starting to shoot up and becoming really intense, and then the vortex consumed my entire perception, and I woke up.
      So, that's what I've got so far. I'm certainly interested in seeing how much further I can take this, and will be posting more results as they come along!
      Last edited by OpheliaBlue; 03-18-2013 at 07:17 PM.

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      Very good. I've got the menthol ready to try tonight -- I'll try a third of the pack (63.2mg) at 15.8mg per sweet. I'm surprised you got a positive result from 18.2mg, given that it's a weak kappa-opoid agonist... really must have a low effective dose as a dream aid. Too early to tell yet, however. I'll post tomorrow -- I hope I have a nightmare.

      So that guy in your posts consumed a whole pack with each containing 8.6mg when he experienced mentally real nightmares. I'd guess a whole pack contains at least 7-8 sweets, which approximates to the amount I'll ingest.

      Demons beware.
      Last edited by Wolfwood; 07-02-2012 at 06:10 PM.
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      Who looks outside, dreams;
      who looks inside, awakes.

      - Carl Jung

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      ~Fantasizer~ <s><span class='glow_FF1493'>Alyzarin</span></s>'s Avatar
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      Awesome! That's a big dose, I'm expecting some good results. :O Yeah, I was actually really surprised that I got anything at all from my dose, it was just a tester.... It wasn't incredibly significant though, so I'm sure your test will have better results. You got 15.8 per cough drop? What a rip, mine are only 9.1. X)

      Well, my pack has 30 so it's hard to say. Definitely best to start small and work our ways up, though.

      I can't wait to see what it does to your dreams!
      Last edited by Alyzarin; 07-02-2012 at 11:05 PM.
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      Awesome Alyzarin . Would supressing the melatonin production ( sorry if I misinterpreted, I didn't read all of it) not carry side effects after prolonged use. If melatonin stimulates deep dreamless sleep would suppressing it not reduce the quality of the deep sleep. As you probably know deep sleep is important in the recovery in the body. Are you willing to test these side effects, I can imagine you would wake up more tired.
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      ~Fantasizer~ <s><span class='glow_FF1493'>Alyzarin</span></s>'s Avatar
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      Thanks, dutchraptor. It's possible that there would be side effects, yes. I don't know of anyone really trying to use it this way before, so it's hard to say. Though, I would imagine if you only used reasonable doses it wouldn't have an overly large impact on your NREM sleep, but I would still avoid using it every day for long stretches of time. At least, until we've tested it some more. I'm planning to go at it slowly and work my way up.

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      Sound Manipulator moSh's Avatar
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      Though I don't think I have the capacity to read it all right now, I massively admire the time and effort you've taken in compiling this huge body of information! Suffice to say I will be trying this and will let you know if I get any positive results!
      GOALS - GLORY FOR TEAM INSTINCT
      DILD [ ] /// Chain a Lucid Dream [ ] /// Stabilise [ ] /// Ask someone what the time is [ ]
      Turn on a computer and jump into it [ ] /// Fly out the Earth's atmosphere [ ] /// Telekinesis [ ] /// Jump through door [ ]
      Listen to my favourite record [ ] /// Jump down two flights of steps without breaking the old kneecaps [ ] /// Smoke a fatty [ ]

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      Thank you, moSh! I look forward to hearing your results!

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      Now, the important part: menthol is a kappa-opioid agonist. It is a weak agonist, but an agonist all the same. For all of the enthusiasts out there, let me put a big DISCLAIMER here: I am not suggesting in any way, shape, or form that menthol is a viable candidate for recreational use as a hallucinogen. Menthol has other effects aside from its kappa-opioid agonism which may or may not create potentially dangerous side effects at doses that would be required for a full hallucinogenic effect. I am ONLY suggesting that it may be used as an effective dream enhancement aid because the doses required are much smaller and known to be safe. Any recreational abuse of menthol is done at your own risk. Believe me, it doesn't seem like I should have to say that, but I'm sure that I do, and it doesn't hurt to play it safe.

      It never hurts to reiterate this and make it stand out.

      I hope it goes well!
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      Woot! Now this is what I'm talking about. Something like clinical trials on HUMANS without the requirement of the IRB! Although, it is cough drops. Why not?! It's safer than salvia

      Game on! Now to just find the best brand of super charged cough drops on the market. I would like to see what others experienced, especially Wolfwood with his supposedly massive dosing.
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      I know it might sound stupid, but i just don't know what kind of menthol you mean...

      The menthol i know is in bubblegums, toothpaste, ect to give it a fresh taste or whatever... Is it the same menthol, but pure? Or did i get it wrong?
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      I realize that i'm dreaming.
      I realize that i'm dreaming.
      I realize that i'm dreaming.

      <--- My Dream Journal Contains ONLY Lucid Dreams

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      Quote Originally Posted by littlezoe View Post
      I know it might sound stupid, but i just don't know what kind of menthol you mean...

      The menthol i know is in bubblegums, toothpaste, ect to give it a fresh taste or whatever... Is it the same menthol, but pure? Or did i get it wrong?
      Hahaha it's the same thing. Menthol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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      Quote Originally Posted by dutchraptor View Post
      Hahaha it's the same thing. Menthol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      Okay thanks, knowing that i can get my hands on the menthol the thread is about, i'll go and read the first post now ^^
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      <--- My Dream Journal Contains ONLY Lucid Dreams

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      Alright, more testers! Just remember guys, start out small.... I'm sure everyone's tolerance to menthol has the potential to vary a loooot given how many things its in, and what works for some may not work for all. I also have some small reason to think that it may actually get slightly stronger the more days you do it in a row, but I'm keeping that reason in until I can verify if it's true, so go slow for now. X)

      Quote Originally Posted by Kaomea View Post
      Woot! Now this is what I'm talking about. Something like clinical trials on HUMANS without the requirement of the IRB! Although, it is cough drops. Why not?! It's safer than salvia

      Game on! Now to just find the best brand of super charged cough drops on the market. I would like to see what others experienced, especially Wolfwood with his supposedly massive dosing.
      I know, I can't wait to see if he got a good effect out of it. You're lucky if you can find some like his, 15.8 mg per drop.... I think I might try ordering some pure menthol crystals soon.

      Quote Originally Posted by littlezoe View Post
      The menthol i know is in bubblegums, toothpaste, ect to give it a fresh taste or whatever...
      Hehe, it is in those things, but you might want to find a slightly better method to take it, the doses required are likely a good deal higher than are in those. Unless you're willing to eat a huge amount of bubblegums or toothepaste before going to bed, then it'll work out fine.
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      So, I doubled up my dose last night, for 36.4 mg total. However I did go to bed kind of early, without properly taking into consideration the fact that I recently stopped smoking weed all day every day, which means that going to bed not-high or at leats not very tired usually equals lots of insomnia... bah. Most of the night I ended up tossing and turning and not really dreaming. I know for a fact that melatonin gets rid of my weed-induced insomnia, but I'd like to avoid taking it so early on in the experiment, in case it skewed results.... Maybe I'll just not go to bed until I'm completely exhausted tonight. But in any case, I did get another very clear, very stable lucid, with a familiar ending.

      DJ Entry - The Lust Returns

      Supplement Dose: 36.4 mg Menthol (Cough Drops)

      #1 - The Lust Returns [DILD]

      There was something going on in the beginning of the dream that I can't quite remember, but we were in a huge auditorium with multiple floors of seatings, and I was up on the second floor (which was kind of like a balcony overlooking the stage). There was a massive amount of people there, which is perhaps notable because I'm usually not in crowds this big unless I've taken some kind of dream enhancer. All I really remember about this part of the dream was that we had some kind of instructors or someone who was watching after us, I'm pretty sure my old friend S was there, and someone had pissed me off and subsequently was moved closer to the edge of the balcony, further away from me. Somehow, I think when I was turning to face the crowd behind me, the scene turned into a classroom. I almost want to say there was some strange 2D video game screen that flashed in between this, but my recollection of it is very hazy.... Anyway, once I was in the classroom I pretty much immediately became lucid. I looked at the screen which was pulled down and had the projector turned on, and there were very readable words on it but it was entirely gibberish, and I didn't really make an effort to remember any of it, though it was funny. I surveyed the class and noticed that everything was in extremely high detail, and the dream hadn't required any stabilization at all. That's nifty, usually things are falling apart for me by now. A bunch of the kids in the class had drinks, so I decided to do a taste test. I tried three different drinks, all of which were delicious. I want to say that one of them looked vaguely orange juice-like, and I think at least one or both of the others was/were soda. I return to the front of the classroom and say "Someone go get me lunch!", deciding that I wanted to try some food now too. This girl in the back of the class stands up and cheerily says "I'll do it! " Awww, she's cute. >w< I say that I'm going to hug her first on her way out and I basically jump up and wrap myself around her. So warm and soft. Suddenly my libido starts shooting up HARD. Oh no, this again! It was much stronger than last night too, so maybe it is a normal menthol effect for me.... The feeling just keeps rising and I'm not sure how much longer I can take it, I'm honestly afraid that I'm just about to explode. I squeeze the girl tighter... and then the dream fades, and I wake up. Intense. X)

      Dream Fragment - Apparently I said something on DV about how not everyone wants to be rich, and tommo was doubting if it was true.
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    15. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by Alyzarin View Post
      Hehe, it is in those things, but you might want to find a slightly better method to take it, the doses required are likely a good deal higher than are in those. Unless you're willing to eat a huge amount of bubblegums or toothepaste before going to bed, then it'll work out fine.
      So what would be the best way to take menthol? I'm not sure if i can get pure menthol crystals... at least i have no idea where to get that from

      You (and others) mentioned cough drops... would Halls be okay? Or what do you recommend?


      Also... i read some of the first post, but it's mostly in that confusing language xD So i'm not exaclty sure how it works, but i would be willing to test it anyway... After all i don't think menthol would do bad...
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      Hehe, don't worry, I don't expect most people to get the pure crystals. Cough drops will probably be the easiest way for most people to test it out, in my opinion. Halls should be fine. It should say somewhere on the package that the active ingredient is menthol, and I'm pretty sure all Halls cough drops do use menthol. If it's the same way there that is here, there should be somewhere on there where it lists the exact dosage and some various usage information.

      I can't imagine it would be harmful in our tests. The doses required for side effects are very, very high, and it would likely take more than an entire pack to reach them, given what the creator of the thread I got the inspiration from said. It's known to be a pretty safe chemical.

      To Everyone: By the way, don't use that as an excuse to go out an eat a whole pack... I'm just saying. X) Be smart, guys! Menthol is a chemical like any other, and there is a limit.
      Last edited by Alyzarin; 07-03-2012 at 02:28 PM.
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      Thanks, that makes sense ^^

      One more question though: What would be the minimum dose that would be enough for a test? Because then i would choose according to that.

      Everything you can get in the shops says the ingredients and dosage on it's package, so Halls would definitely have these too
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      Well, I started out with two cough drops, which with mine was 18.2 mg, and that did create some effects for me. That weren't extremely strong or anything, but they were definitely there. You can certainly start with more than one cough drops, but as long as they're a high enough dose I wouldn't say you necessarily have to start with more than two. See how it effects you at low doses before you push it, you may not even need that much.
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      Just got some Halls from the shop wanted to check out what dose of menthol it has in it... sadly, the pack doesn't say exactly how much menthol it has, but according to this page, this mentho-lyptus kind has 6.5mg menthol in it... Soo i would need to take 3 to have the same amount as you used.. hmm... too bad it only has 9 cough drops in the pack...

      I think i'll give it a go with just one single cough drop tomorrow when going back to bed after WBTB, then if it doesn't seem to have much effect then i'll try with 2 and so on

      Also, according to that page, the Ice Blue Peppermint one has 10mg menthol... that one would be the best ^^
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      Dreams were maybe more nonsensical, and contained content that could be 'nightmarish', but to me there was no feeling of evil. I had no spontaneous lucid; however, my vision was clearer/crisper.... if odd.

      Oh. And...

      I went to bed with clothes on and woke up completely naked. I definitely don't remember taking my clothes off. o.0 This has never happened before.

      I'll try again tonight.
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      Quote Originally Posted by littlezoe View Post
      Just got some Halls from the shop wanted to check out what dose of menthol it has in it... sadly, the pack doesn't say exactly how much menthol it has, but according to this page, this mentho-lyptus kind has 6.5mg menthol in it... Soo i would need to take 3 to have the same amount as you used.. hmm... too bad it only has 9 cough drops in the pack...

      I think i'll give it a go with just one single cough drop tomorrow when going back to bed after WBTB, then if it doesn't seem to have much effect then i'll try with 2 and so on

      Also, according to that page, the Ice Blue Peppermint one has 10mg menthol... that one would be the best ^^
      Extra-Strong Lockets contain 15.8mg if you can get 'em.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Wolfwood View Post
      I went to bed with clothes on and woke up completely naked. I definitely don't remember taking my clothes off. o.0 This has never happened before.
      That must've been a really realistic nightmare xD

      Quote Originally Posted by Wolfwood View Post
      Extra-Strong Lockets contain 15.8mg if you can get 'em.

      We don't have those here... :/ But i'm not even sure if we have the Ice Blue Peppermint Halls either...
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      Quote Originally Posted by littlezoe View Post
      Just got some Halls from the shop wanted to check out what dose of menthol it has in it... sadly, the pack doesn't say exactly how much menthol it has, but according to this page, this mentho-lyptus kind has 6.5mg menthol in it... Soo i would need to take 3 to have the same amount as you used.. hmm... too bad it only has 9 cough drops in the pack...

      I think i'll give it a go with just one single cough drop tomorrow when going back to bed after WBTB, then if it doesn't seem to have much effect then i'll try with 2 and so on

      Also, according to that page, the Ice Blue Peppermint one has 10mg menthol... that one would be the best ^^
      I might have to try to find some of that Ice Blue if I can then, that is a nice solid number to work with.

      Sounds like a plan! That's good that you're trying it with WBTB, that's where some testing really needs to be done.

      Quote Originally Posted by Wolfwood View Post
      Dreams were maybe more nonsensical, and contained content that could be 'nightmarish', but to me there was no feeling of evil. I had no spontaneous lucid; however, my vision was clearer/crisper.... if odd.

      Oh. And...

      I went to bed with clothes on and woke up completely naked. I definitely don't remember taking my clothes off. o.0 This has never happened before.

      I'll try again tonight.
      Interestingly, I think the person from the other thread said it was actually the intensity that scared them, not the content of the nightmares themselves.... But that is a really weird circumstance to end up with. It'd be great if we could actually find out just how much menthol that person was ingesting....

      What do you mean by saying your vision was odd?
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      Quote Originally Posted by littlezoe View Post
      That must've been a really realistic nightmare xD


      We don't have those here... :/ But i'm not even sure if we have the Ice Blue Peppermint Halls either...
      Haha, well something happened. I've woke up with scratch marks over my back and stomach before, but have never lost my clothes.

      Well... there's also essential oils, menthol. Get that from one of those therapeutic stores. Not sure how many mg one drop would be, however.

      Quote Originally Posted by Alyzarin View Post

      Interestingly, I think the person from the other thread said it was actually the intensity that scared them, not the content of the nightmares themselves.... But that is a really weird circumstance to end up with. It'd be great if we could actually find out just how much menthol that person was ingesting....

      What do you mean by saying your vision was odd?
      Yeah, when I said a minimum of 7-8, I meant his dose (the guy above) would have to be more than, or equal to, what I took.... given 8.6mg per sweet, and he ate the whole pack. I doubt you'd get a pack of sweets with less than 7-8 sweets.

      It was full of artifacts, floating particles etc. As if my vision was so clear that I could see the molecules in the air (dream molecules, of course ).
      Last edited by Wolfwood; 07-03-2012 at 07:35 PM.
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      I might make extract some menthol from the peppermint plant near my bog. Then I can join in too.
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