Thread: Menthol as a Dream Enhancer

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

Also, on the subject of amino acids, was it decided that l-glutamine is the best for lucid dreaming?

I think that'd be pretty hard to settle on, but L-glutamine can definitely have positive effects. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't starting to get interested in a choline/L-glutamine/L-glycine/GABA (or maybe picamilon for better brain penetration) mix....

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

It's certainly the most accessible! Yuschak said that he'd become lucid w/ just L-glutamine and L-theanine but that it worked significantly better when he included L-aspartic acid. Unfortunately, L-aspartic acid is a bit more annoying to acquire.

L-Aspartic Acid Pure Powder 500g (1.1 lb, 17.6 oz), Food Grade for Energy. - Amazon

Source Naturals L-Aspartic Acid Powder 100Gm - DrVita

Looking for this?

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

Quick question. I can't find piracetam capsules anywhere, will noopept do the trick at clearing the galantamine from my system? (I'm so new at LD supplements )

EDIT: nope, there's only nootropic powders on amazon, no capsules, which is a pain in the ass.

I had trouble finding it too, but here is a web that also sells it. NuTriVene
This is the brand I used. It says, it will be discontinued after june.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

I think that'd be pretty hard to settle on, but L-glutamine can definitely have positive effects. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't starting to get interested in a choline/L-glutamine/L-glycine/GABA (or maybe picamilon for better brain penetration) mix....

Ooh, you have my attention... keep us updated if you do/think anything in this area. The GABA/picamilon is an interesting twist. How's that fit into the overall effect you're going for?

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

L-Aspartic Acid Pure Powder 500g (1.1 lb, 17.6 oz), Food Grade for Energy. - Amazon

Source Naturals L-Aspartic Acid Powder 100Gm - DrVita

Looking for this?

Sweeeet... I wound up using the Source Naturals one off of iHerb, but the price Aly found is actually even a little bit lower than what I paid. L-glutamine is nice because you can just waltz into GNC or any nutritional store where you find enormous men w/ no necks congregating.

Originally Posted by gab

I had trouble finding it too, but here is a web that also sells it. NuTriVene
This is the brand I used. It says, it will be discontinued after june.

Thanks for the link, gab! That's also the brand that I used, except I bought it off Amazon before they quit selling piracetam. Just this morning I stared at my bottle and made a mental note to visit their website in the hopes they sold directly. It's disappointing to hear that they're discontinuing after June.

So many trigger combinations, so little funds...

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Ooh, you have my attention... keep us updated if you do/think anything in this area. The GABA/picamilon is an interesting twist. How's that fit into the overall effect you're going for?

Will do! Well, I would prefer picamilon over GABA since GABA alone has really low blood-brain barrier penetration, and picamilon is just a prodrug that passes into the brain first made by mixing GABA with niacin. That means that in addition to activating central GABA receptors it also increases blood flow to the brain, which has a nootropic effect. I've often used niacin to clear anxiety attacks because it gets rid of my brain fog. So with those in place, by taking L-glycine you would logically be activating GABA(B) and GABA(A)/glycine receptors in the brain stem, potentiating the natural REM atonia mechanism. The L-glutamine would also lead to enhanced glutamate that would activate the kainate receptors and induce REM, just like the choline with muscarinic receptors. I'd probably add more into it too, but that would just be the basic idea....

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Sweeeet... I wound up using the Source Naturals one off of iHerb, but the price Aly found is actually even a little bit lower than what I paid. L-glutamine is nice because you can just waltz into GNC or any nutritional store where you find enormous men w/ no necks congregating.

Ah yes, those are some of my favorite places. Speaking of which, I may need to stop by the GNC right by my house soon....

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

So many trigger combinations, so little funds...

And they'll keep coming out with more and more from now until the end of time.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Will do! Well, I would prefer picamilon over GABA since GABA alone has really low blood-brain barrier penetration, and picamilon is just a prodrug that passes into the brain first made by mixing GABA with niacin. That means that in addition to activating central GABA receptors it also increases blood flow to the brain, which has a nootropic effect. I've often used niacin to clear anxiety attacks because it gets rid of my brain fog. So with those in place, by taking L-glycine you would logically be activating GABA(B) and GABA(A)/glycine receptors in the brain stem, potentiating the natural REM atonia mechanism. The L-glutamine would also lead to enhanced glutamate that would activate the kainate receptors and induce REM, just like the choline with muscarinic receptors. I'd probably add more into it too, but that would just be the basic idea....

Ah cool! I had never been sure whether niacin increased cerebral blood flow or not. I'd heard that it did but then got caught up in conflicting and kind of ambiguous information when I briefly tried to look into it. I always thought that sounded like it could make niacin useful for combining with virtually any lucid aid. Played with it once but hadn't gotten around to it again.

Anyway, great plan. I'm embarrassed that I didn't think to connect the picamilon idea with your earlier research update on the connection between the GABA receptors and REM atonia! Duh...

This stuff gets me crazy excited.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Ah cool! I had never been sure whether niacin increased cerebral blood flow or not. I'd heard that it did but then got caught up in conflicting and kind of ambiguous information when I briefly tried to look into it. I always thought that sounded like it could make niacin useful for combining with virtually any lucid aid. Played with it once but hadn't gotten around to it again.

Anyway, great plan. I'm embarrassed that I didn't think to connect the picamilon idea with your earlier research update on the connection between the GABA receptors and REM atonia! Duh...

This stuff gets me crazy excited.

Oh yeah, being a vasodilator is like it's main benefit. I always have it around just in case experiments go wrong too, because in the drug world (note: distinct from the supplement world) more often than not experiments are done with things that cause vasoconstriction. It's good to be prepared for unexpected circumstances....

I wouldn't be shocked if niacin went with just about anything. It is a vitamin, after all, and those are good for you. I'm actually working on a vitamin and mineral routine setup right now. Don't be surprised if I go a little crazy for a while because all of my brain functions are hypersaturated. >.> With any luck my brain will start melting from too many feel good chemicals floating around all the time.

I know what you mean, too. Supplements are fun.

Date: 14th May
Dose: a pint in the evening, WBTB: 500mg choline, 500mg inositol, 500mg B5, 400mg menthol
Side Effects: heartburn, insomnia, minty fresh breath.
Sleep Duration: 8hrs WBTB at 5am, 20 mins
Cognitive: fanciful associations, surrealism
Sexual: fell in love with a DC who had a troubled childhood, menthol darkness meant she was also a bit of a psychopath.
Atmosphere: colourful, detailed, feelings of uncertainty, intimacy that was uncomfortable rather than pleasant
Other Comments: as I was falling asleep I felt that menthol inertia again, I can seriously see that menthol might have some impact on REM, it felt like I was only seconds from REM sleep when I lost awareness. I need to sort out the pesky insomnia, whether its the B5, the menthol or my WBTB timing.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

Dose: a pint in the evening, WBTB: 500mg choline, 500mg inositol, 500mg B5, 400mg menthol

I'm guessing you mean peppermint oil right? Otherwise, I have many more questions.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

Sexual: fell in love with a DC who had a troubled childhood, menthol darkness meant she was also a bit of a psychopath.
Atmosphere: colourful, detailed, feelings of uncertainty, intimacy that was uncomfortable rather than pleasant

Sounds tasty.... What about it was uncomfortable? Lol.

Yes 400mg of peppermint oil xP

I dunno, she was really into me, in a restraining order sort of way. I'd be lying if I said it wasn't hot all the same. ^_^;

Oh and something I forgot to mention, my sense of smell was really active in the dream, which is almost never the case.

Date: Wed May 15th 2013
Dose: (Bed) Oil of Peppermint capsule (x1) = 200 mg. (WBTB) Oil of Peppermint capsule (x1) = 200 mg. (Total = 400 mg)
All taken with water.
Side Effects: Ok.
Sleep Duration: (4.75)-5.75 hrs before (WBTB 15 min) 3.5 hrs after. Total = (8.25)-9.25 hrs
Cognitive: Very good recall. Regression effect. Brief lucidity (DILD) plus semi-lucidty. Memorable. Lots of H.I. V-WILD attempted due to state of mind/Hypnagogia. (Post-WBTB)
Sexual: Yes
Atmosphere: Highly vivid, highly emotional, sinister and nightmarish at one point. Colourful and bright. (Post-WBTB)
Other Comments: Lots of fragments and short dreams were recorded which were mainly pre-WBTB.
I still feel the (emotional) effects of the Lucid dream!
(N.B: Results may possibly be skewed by the fact that there was still a residue of Clary Sage aromatherapy oil on my pillow from yesterday evening’s relaxation/meditation, plus I held the Quartz crystal in my left hand, post-WBTB as a form of Totem.)

I don’t think that one swallow makes a summer, due to certain variables for example, like the change in my sleep amount(s,) R.E.M. times, and timings, etc. but who knows?

http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/high...tc-dild-46443/

Interesting idea there taking menthol before bed and during WBTB, do you think there was a difference?

I seemed to sleep ok with no heartburn where it appears that I remembered general fragments only, whereas post-wbtb is where all the 'fun' started happening - I use that term loosely!
Therefore it could have possibly boosted/affected the latter stages?

Compare this with last weeks entry http://www.dreamviews.com/research/1...ml#post2016525 entry #740

I may have got a slight rem rebound from the start of the week. (Mon?) I could not get back to sleep properly after a WBTB?

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

Yes 400mg of peppermint oil xP

I dunno, she was really into me, in a restraining order sort of way. I'd be lying if I said it wasn't hot all the same. ^_^;

Oh and something I forgot to mention, my sense of smell was really active in the dream, which is almost never the case.

Ah, I see. Well that's cool. That is interesting, too.... Did you have some reason to pay attention to what you were smelling?

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Ah, I see. Well that's cool. That is interesting, too.... Did you have some reason to pay attention to what you were smelling?

The dream was generally... Sensual.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

The dream was generally... Sensual.

Gotcha, gotcha. Well that could have just been why then. The more you focus on it, you know?

I was looking through results with valerian in the thread and came across this:

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Dose: Pre-bed: 2g fish oil WBTB: 23.2mg menthol (6 cough drops), 250mg DMAE, 900mg Valerian Root, 4g fish oil
Side Effects: None
Sleep Duration: 6.5 hours
WBTB: Yes (20 minutes)
Lucid: No
Vividness: Completely lifelike (!)
Stability: n/a
Dream Comments: One of the most vivid NLDs of my life.

I can't think of any other experience where menthol more lived up to the thread title: "Menthol as a dream enhancer".

The dream itself is too personal to share, but the memory of the dream feels almost exactly like a waking life memory. It was much less "imaginative" than a typical menthol dream. Also, the dream was pretty much 100% non-sexy. The mood was reflective, content, and philosophical.

Probably one of the most striking dreams of my life. It was a little tough waking up from it and realizing that none of it had actually happened.

I think that I want to bring menthol back in for my next galantamine night. If menthol is activating D2 in the way that Aly's theory suggests it might, there could be huge synergy in this combination.

I got some omega 3 capsules today (which just seems like a great supplement for dreams overall anyway) and I'm going to replicate this combo tonight, pretty excited about what the results might be.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

I was looking through results with valerian in the thread and came across this:
I got some omega 3 capsules today (which just seems like a great supplement for dreams overall anyway) and I'm going to replicate this combo tonight, pretty excited about what the results might be.

Wow, Ctharlhie, I remember that one well! I still get this wistful little twinge just thinking about it. Alyzarin has talked about NLDs that are actually better when you're non-lucid because you allow yourself to be fooled into believing the illusion is real. This was one of those.

Good luck with the combo! You've got the DMAE, too? Looking forward to hearing how it goes for you!

Choline rather than DMAE, but DMAE is basically a choline precursor, right?

I'm looking forward to it, hoping for a WILD, failing that the NLDs should be worth it alone.

Should I start with small doses of fish oil and valerian?

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

Choline rather than DMAE, but DMAE is basically a choline precursor, right?

I'm looking forward to it, hoping for a WILD, failing that the NLDs should be worth it alone.

Should I start with small doses of fish oil and valerian?

To be completely frank, I still don't understand everything that's going on with DMAE. I know that DMAE is converted to choline in the liver, but that won't cross the blood-brain barrier to the brain. This study makes me a bit skeptical that it gets converted to ACh in the brain: Is 2-dimethylaminoethanol (deanol) inde... [J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 1977] - PubMed - NCBI I'm not sure, but I feel like there's more going on there.

Aly found some references a while back that seemed to indicate that DMAE had some sort of direct interaction with nicotinic ACh receptors. Since DMAE easily penetrates the BBB, this could be where the magic comes from.

Something is going on with DMAE, that much I believe. I got some very good lucids using DMAE as a trigger, particularly when I backed it with menthol. Anecdotal, yes, but one's own anecdotes always seem so powerful. I was a bit annoyed that DMAE worked as well as it did since my understanding of its method of action is so poor.

Sure, you may want to try starting small with the Valerian. I'm not especially cautious about the fish oil since I've taken it in 6-9 gram quantities daily for many years. (Health and fitness reasons.)

Good luck!

Wait. Did we change format? No matter.

Dose: Pre-bed: 400mcg Huperzine, 200mg DMAE, 4g fish oil; WBTB:400mcg Huperzine, 200mg DMAE, 1/4 cup peppermint leaves
Side Effects: Nausea, Fatigue, slight insomnia
Sleep Duration: 10ish hours total
Cognitive:Forgetful. Couldn't remember tasks well. Aimless wondering.
Sexual: Brief. Make out session. wanted more but DC refused. Lost interest.
Atmosphere: Big darkness battle. Couldn't look up. Dream control challenging. Easy DEILDs. Hard SP

I don't need to be told that I over did it with huperzine. I paid for it this morning. I'm really down about that. On the bright side I had 4 LD's and it seems the addition of menthol increased lucidity. Not too shabby. Next time (from now on) I'll go with a more reasonable 400mcg at WBTB and see how menthol effects me then.

The Clothing Store - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
Allons-y? - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
The Joyride - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
You Can't Say That - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Dose: WBTB 200mg peppermint oil.
Side Effects: None
Sleep Duration: 6.5hr
Cognitiveretty much useless
Sexual: None at all
Atmosphere: Awesome casual atmosphere. There was an epic cartoony but apocalyptic style to everything without feeling depressing or childish.

Despite the lack of lucidity my dreams were AWESOME. Finally I got those familiar menthol dreams, It wasn't dark or surreal but I had no problems, felt really good and the story was always smooth and flowing. I had a lot more powers than in usual dreams and they weren't about everyday life either

I know of a few nootropic companies that sell capsuled piracetam and other various noots. Smart Drugs for Thought has been a fairly reliable source for those ordering internationally and they also have pretty fast shipping. JLNootropics also sells capsuled noots but I don't have much experience with them.

Dose:Pre-bed; 3g fish oil, 500mg B5, 200mg peppermint oil, WBTB; 500mg choline bitartrate, 500mg inositol, 200mg peppermint oil, 674mg valerian root
Side-effects: None.
Sleep duration: ~8hrs
Cognitive: reasoning took a back seat, I RCd a few times but just tried to wake up.
Sexual:Nope.
Atmosphere:Fucking mindscarring, timebending multidimensional portal-hopping pursued by a nameless fear... My kind of dream.
Other comments: Phew, that was probably the most intense night of dreaming since I first experimented with menthol. Definitely qualified as nightmarish, multiple FA chains again. I seemed be dreaming constantly from when I returned to bed to when I got up in the morning, there was so much dreaming that seemed totally real at the time but I now can't remember because there was just too much to recall.

I love that menthol gives me these Lovecraftian horror dreams.