Course it's bullshit! |
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So right into the point, I was talking with my friend about millions of years old fosils, and he said it's impossible, even if these bones survive decomposition (for example by being in an anaerobic place before decomposition gets it's hand on all of it), that they, and I emphasize this, they "poof into dust when you dig them up and they contact air". |
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I fill my heart with fire, with passion, passion for what makes me nostalgic. A unique perspective fuels my fire, makes me discover new passions, more nostalgia. I love it.
"People tell dreamers to reality check and realize this is the real world and not one of fantasies, but little do they know that for us Lucid Dreamers, it all starts when the RC fails"
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Course it's bullshit! |
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Last edited by StephL; 02-14-2015 at 11:32 AM.
Exactly the person I was hoping would stumble into my thread! |
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Last edited by LouaiB; 02-14-2015 at 12:09 PM.
I fill my heart with fire, with passion, passion for what makes me nostalgic. A unique perspective fuels my fire, makes me discover new passions, more nostalgia. I love it.
"People tell dreamers to reality check and realize this is the real world and not one of fantasies, but little do they know that for us Lucid Dreamers, it all starts when the RC fails"
Add me as a friend!!!
It is very hard for those who are brought up being told "if you do not believe us, you are a sinful person" |
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Ask them to explain why they would poof into dust. If he knows for a fact that it will happen he should understand why and be able to explain it. Of course that isn't true, so would be interesting to see what he says. Either he will say something incoherent or will not have any idea, or he will be explain it and you can just google search it and correct any misunderstandings he may have. |
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...fossils aren't made of bone. |
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Let's see. Being Devil's advicate here: cause they is old. Old stuff crumbles to dust after even a thousand years. 'sides nuttin is over 5000 years old cause we added together all the ages of biblical guys from the begining, Godness, this should all be obvious, praise the Lord. |
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You're definitely right there, sivason. |
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Last edited by LouaiB; 02-15-2015 at 08:33 AM.
I fill my heart with fire, with passion, passion for what makes me nostalgic. A unique perspective fuels my fire, makes me discover new passions, more nostalgia. I love it.
"People tell dreamers to reality check and realize this is the real world and not one of fantasies, but little do they know that for us Lucid Dreamers, it all starts when the RC fails"
Add me as a friend!!!
Know that science is not a tool of evil intended to weed out the unfaithful. That line of thought is clearly the stuff a religion would have to say in light of being proved wrong. Proved wrong. That is the thing, it is those who must hold to a belief in an infallible and literal word of God tradition, be it any one of the faiths, who can not adapt and make peace with the modern world. If they could laugh and say, "well the writers of these things did not understand many scientific things, but the message for a spiritual life is still valid" then they could keep faith and transition into the modern world. |
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Thank you for the advice, sivason! I truly do see that if god exists, a good one, these religions would be like an insult to his figure, and he wouldn't be upset at all just because I can't detect him. |
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I fill my heart with fire, with passion, passion for what makes me nostalgic. A unique perspective fuels my fire, makes me discover new passions, more nostalgia. I love it.
"People tell dreamers to reality check and realize this is the real world and not one of fantasies, but little do they know that for us Lucid Dreamers, it all starts when the RC fails"
Add me as a friend!!!
You cannot learn from me or anyone else what it is or should be for you. You can listen to what others feel, but you will do the exploring for yourself. Do I believe in transcendent things? Yes, I have had them more than proven to me, but that is not proof for you, that is hope at best, someone else's experience. Is it a psychological thing also? A life of doing things that bring you good feeling of self worth and a sense that you are good in nature and striving to do good, will have great benefits on your psyche. How to find those good feelings, is again your part of the journey. I could suggest you start by trying to understand how sad and hard the position is for young Muslim "True Believers" Sure you will get frustrated at rude insulting people, but find some pity for their hardship too. That is just an example, you will find your own. |
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The point of cleaning myself of brainwashing is a very important point. You can't find the right path if you're already in the wrong one. |
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I fill my heart with fire, with passion, passion for what makes me nostalgic. A unique perspective fuels my fire, makes me discover new passions, more nostalgia. I love it.
"People tell dreamers to reality check and realize this is the real world and not one of fantasies, but little do they know that for us Lucid Dreamers, it all starts when the RC fails"
Add me as a friend!!!
What an interesting conversation. |
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Last edited by Occipitalred; 02-15-2015 at 06:55 PM.
Who thinks that logical reasoning (by which I assume you also mean deference to empirical observation) is the "only important thing"? I've never heard atheists say this. All they believe is that logical reasoning and empirical observation works. In other words, they think it's ridiculous to deny that Pythagoras' theorem is true (because it has a logical proof) or that the Earth is round (because it is observed). I think everybody here agrees that people who don't accept this are in denial. But this doesn't mean we think that reasoning is the "only worthy quality" in the human sphere. There are plenty of other worthy qualities, like compassion, or art. You're making a false dichotomy, and I'm not sure why. |
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Fair response. |
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Last edited by Occipitalred; 02-15-2015 at 07:06 PM.
True indeed. Religious people seem to see the other side as having an alien perspective, not just about the disbelief. Most religious people do praise logic and science, but are in denial about anything science says that might be against their stance. For example, people still use the first cause argument, even though the difference from cause & effect and ex nihilo should be clear by now, and the failure of conceptual analysis & deduction without the ability to test and experiment. It's even difficult to assume that we can use our logic outside what it evolved to understand (we can learn to though). Even in our current sciences, basic logic doesn't work in some domains like quantum physics for example. For example, an electron not just can be in 2 places at once, but it does. Impossible you say? Exactly! Logic can't comprehend it! Logic evolved to help us escape science, not understand atoms! Now imagine using logic, or should I say simple flawed philosophy, to prove god! You can't! Even in itself it's flawed (like a god can't be omnipotent and omniscience at the same time, and so on). So even if you presume you can use philosophy, you're using it wrong! |
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I fill my heart with fire, with passion, passion for what makes me nostalgic. A unique perspective fuels my fire, makes me discover new passions, more nostalgia. I love it.
"People tell dreamers to reality check and realize this is the real world and not one of fantasies, but little do they know that for us Lucid Dreamers, it all starts when the RC fails"
Add me as a friend!!!
I would just like to jump in with one point. There are those who are brain washed by Religion, and find some science to be an attack on their world belief. However, there are people who are religious and are easily as open minded as any scientist (many are scientists). I think Occipitalred gets this. |
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Except they don't. We have videos of paleontologists digging up fossils. Some may be fragile, sure, but they don't turn into Nesquik powder on contact. Tell your friend to do even a cursory search of fossil recovery videos on YouTube. |
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Last edited by BLUELINE976; 02-15-2015 at 08:59 PM.
The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended. - Frédéric Bastiat
I try to deny myself any illusions or delusions, and I think that this perhaps entitles me to try and deny the same to others, at least as long as they refuse to keep their fantasies to themselves. - Christopher Hitchens
Formerly known as BLUELINE976
I find your relationship with Siva inspiring. (to Sivason) |
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Last edited by Occipitalred; 02-15-2015 at 09:08 PM.
Agreed entirely. |
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Some would argue the expansion of scientific knowledge diminishes God, whatever God might be. I would argue the exact opposite. |
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No no, that genetics part was my side note. I know they didn't discover genetics back then, but what I meant by genetics is when he (Darwin) talked about how the characteristics and traits of animals transfer. He didn't know about the traits being DNA, but we discovered later that that would be called genetics, and he got it wrong. |
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Last edited by LouaiB; 02-16-2015 at 04:46 AM.
I fill my heart with fire, with passion, passion for what makes me nostalgic. A unique perspective fuels my fire, makes me discover new passions, more nostalgia. I love it.
"People tell dreamers to reality check and realize this is the real world and not one of fantasies, but little do they know that for us Lucid Dreamers, it all starts when the RC fails"
Add me as a friend!!!
What do you mean by "got it wrong"? He never suggested an account of genetics in the first place, because he wasn't aware that genes existed, so there's nothing for him to have gotten wrong. |
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Of course he didn't know that biological traits where blueprinted by genes. What he suggested was trait wise. He didn't know that animal traits where blueprinted by DNA. That's why I said genetics. The science of genetics not as DNA and genes (lol), but as trait 'transfer'. |
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Last edited by LouaiB; 02-16-2015 at 04:56 AM.
I fill my heart with fire, with passion, passion for what makes me nostalgic. A unique perspective fuels my fire, makes me discover new passions, more nostalgia. I love it.
"People tell dreamers to reality check and realize this is the real world and not one of fantasies, but little do they know that for us Lucid Dreamers, it all starts when the RC fails"
Add me as a friend!!!
Forgive me but I don't think you've really answered the question. Not knowing that DNA causes heredity is not the same thing as "being wrong" about heredity -- as far as I'm aware, Darwin didn't make any hypotheses about the mechanism of heredity. He simply observed that heredity occurs... which is true, regardless of genetics. |
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