Am I a zombie or just don't have SP?

[Arilou]

Hey everyone, I sleepwalk a lot, like once or twice every night. I also sit up in bed, talk etc. does this mean I don't have SP or do I do this during NREM sleep? Please submit your two cents. (oh and the zombie thing was a joke lol)

[melanieb]

From what I've seen somnambulism relates to a sleeping disorder of some kind. This is what I've read, relevant parts highlighted. Sleep is categorized into stages of a cycle between REM sleep and NREM sleep. NREM sleep is further divided into four stages: stage 1 (a light sleep period), stage 2 (a consolidated sleep period), and stage 3 and 4 (slow wave sleep periods). This is followed by stage 3, stage 2, stage 1, and a REM period. In normal adults, a cycle will last about 1.5 hours. According to Lavie, Malhotra, and Pillar, "The length and content of sleep cycles change throughout the night as well as with age." Sleepwalking generally occurs during the first third of the night (between 11 p.m. and 1 a.m.) during the slow wave NREM sleep stage. High delta activity within the brain usually accompanies slow wave NREM sleep, and when 20–50% of all activity is delta activity, stage 3 is scored. When delta activity reaches 50% or higher, stage 4 is scored. Usually, if sleepwalking occurs at all, it will only occur once in a night. Several experts theorize that the development of sleepwalking in childhood is due to a delay in maturation. There are also high-voltage delta waves in somnambulists up to 17 years of age. This presence might suggest an immaturity in the central nervous system, also a possible cause of sleepwalking. Sleepwalking is clustered in families, and the percentage of childhood sleepwalking increases to 45% if one parent was affected, and 60% if both parents were affected. However, there is no recorded preference to male or female individuals. Thus, heritable factors appear to predispose an individual to develop sleepwalking, but expression of the trait may be also influenced by environmental factors. Other precipitating factors to sleepwalking are those factors which increase the slow wave sleep stage. These most commonly include sleep deprivation, fever, and excessive tiredness. The use of some neuroleptics or hypnotics can also cause sleepwalking to occur.

[Sivason]

My mother has this exact same thing happen. I am not an expert, but my answer is yes. It is related to some malfunction of SP. The whole concept of SP is that it is intended to keep this sort of thing from being able to happen. I imagine you sometimes have normal SP but at others you act out dream like scenerios which means no SP when you should be having it.

[dms111]

Sleep walking is not related to SP (REM atonia is a more appropriate term here.) REM atonia prevents us from acting out our dreams. If we physically acted out our dreams we would never get any sleep because the movement would wake us up almost immediately. Because REM sleep is very light we would be woken up before we actually had a chance to act out our dreams. Sleep walking occurs in the deepest stage of NREM. This is why it's incredibly hard to wake a person that is sleepwalking. A sleepwalker is not acting out a dream. A sleepwalker is not trying to navigate a dream world as they're moving around. They interact with the real world in ways that would be impossible if they were dreaming. They can walk down stars, unlock doors, etc. Exactly what a sleep walking person is experiencing mentally is hard to know since they don't typically have any memory of it.

[melanieb]

Moved thread to Sleep and Health.

[Sivason]

Sleep walking is not related to SP (REM atonia is a more appropriate term here.) REM atonia prevents us from acting out our dreams. If we physically acted out our dreams we would never get any sleep because the movement would wake us up almost immediately. Because REM sleep is very light we would be woken up before we actually had a chance to act out our dreams. Sleep walking occurs in the deepest stage of NREM. This is why it's incredibly hard to wake a person that is sleepwalking. A sleepwalker is not acting out a dream. A sleepwalker is not trying to navigate a dream world as they're moving around. They interact with the real world in ways that would be impossible if they were dreaming. They can walk down stars, unlock doors, etc. Exactly what a sleep walking person is experiencing mentally is hard to know since they don't typically have any memory of it. It is one of those definition things. I consider SP something that works in all phases of sleep. We dream in nREM and need to not walk off a cliff. Thus, we need a method of keeping our bodies pinned down. In WILD you reach SP even as much as an hour before you can get into REM. You also can attempt WILD before bed (which probably will not work), then you can be in SP for hours with out REM. This is just what I call SP, and my humble opinion is that if you are getting up or moving around, you clearly have a problem with not being paralyzed while asleep. My mother did this kind of sleep walking as many as 3 times or more a night. She could interact with doors and may respond if you talked to her. However, she also was clearly experiencing dream imagery at the same time. She would be talking about things that she was experiencing in her mind.

[Arilou]

Okay, thanks all y'all! I'll look into some more things, but I don't remember much from sleepwalking if I remember anything at all. When I do it's just remembering me trying to do a certain task. I have also apparently got into a huge argument with my mom while sleepwalking, I was screaming a her cause she wanted me to go back to my room.

[xdream]

Sleep Paralysis (or when you are asleep REM Atonia) only occurs during REM and it's function is to stop you from acting out dreams. Sleepwalking occurs during deep sleep(stages 3 and 4), where there is never SP (generally because there are not usually dreams during deep sleep).

[yuvyuv]

I sleepwalk and its allways when i have a dream - that usually i remember - for instance i try to kill a monster so i hit stuff and wake up from the pain or if i run from a monster and for instance my parents yell at me to stop runing so i first think that the monster is shouting at me so i run faster then i get they are my parents but i think maybe the monster shapeshifted to my parents and then i think that dosnt make any sence and they are really my parents - it like stages from un-logical thinking to logical thinking so i wonder why is it that its said that sleepwalking isnt in dream time - when i remember sleepwalking only when dreaming ?

[intheworldofnim]

It is one of those definition things. I consider SP something that works in all phases of sleep. We dream in nREM and need to not walk off a cliff. Thus, we need a method of keeping our bodies pinned down. In WILD you reach SP even as much as an hour before you can get into REM. You also can attempt WILD before bed (which probably will not work), then you can be in SP for hours with out REM. This is just what I call SP, and my humble opinion is that if you are getting up or moving around, you clearly have a problem with not being paralyzed while asleep. My mother did this kind of sleep walking as many as 3 times or more a night. She could interact with doors and may respond if you talked to her. However, she also was clearly experiencing dream imagery at the same time. She would be talking about things that she was experiencing in her mind. SLEEPARALYSIS ONLY OCCURES during REM sleep. People during nonREM move all the time in their sleep. sleep has little to do with paralysis, paralyized sleep is a concept only associated with dreaming so that you don't go acting out your dreams. people who act out their dreams have no knowledge of their waking life surroundings so it is impossable for someone who acts out in their dreams to interact with locks or know where the stairs are. Most people would just walk right into their bedroom walls and wake up. talking during nonREM sleep is not a unique situation, people talk during nonREM sleep all the time but usually it's a bunch of gibberish. did you understand anything she was saying or did you just dismiss it for dream talk? people who sleeptalk while dreaming can speak full flued sentences while nonrem sleeptalkers say different works with little correlation or comprehension but spectators usually only notice if they pay close attention. Most would just think the person was dreaming and so wouldn't pay it much mind.

[Sivason]

SLEEPARALYSIS ONLY OCCURES during REM sleep. People during nonREM move all the time in their sleep. sleep has little to do with paralysis, paralyized sleep is a concept only associated with dreaming so that you don't go acting out your dreams. people who act out their dreams have no knowledge of their waking life surroundings so it is impossable for someone who acts out in their dreams to interact with locks or know where the stairs are. Most people would just walk right into their bedroom walls and wake up. talking during nonREM sleep is not a unique situation, people talk during nonREM sleep all the time but usually it's a bunch of gibberish. did you understand anything she was saying or did you just dismiss it for dream talk? people who sleeptalk while dreaming can speak full flued sentences while nonrem sleeptalkers say different works with little correlation or comprehension but spectators usually only notice if they pay close attention. Most would just think the person was dreaming and so wouldn't pay it much mind. So, are you saying you do not believe in nREM dreams? Or just that we act out all our nREM dreams. I am sure in the 22 years i have slept in the same bed with other people, I would havve noticed them acting out their nREM dreams or would have been told I acted out mine. Something keeps people from acting out pretty much any dream, wether nREM or not.

[dutchraptor]

Like I said to you earlier sivason, nrem dreams are commonly associated with worries and bad feelings, yet only for some people. My sister always wakes up from a "dream" screaming and twirling probably because she has alot of stress. Most people probably don't act out their nrem dreams because they are not encountering the fright some people do.

[dms111]

So, are you saying you do not believe in nREM dreams? Or just that we act out all our nREM dreams. I am sure in the 22 years i have slept in the same bed with other people, I would havve noticed them acting out their nREM dreams or would have been told I acted out mine. Something keeps people from acting out pretty much any dream, wether nREM or not. I tend to view NREM dreams like advanced day dreams. I can sit in this chair, close my eyes and imagine myself slam dunking a basketball. If I really try it can be imagined in great detail and I can feel as if I'm really doing it. But at no time is my physical body in any danger of moving. I think NREM dreams function in a similar fashion.

[Sivason]

Does any one here have a good knowledge of what the problem is that causes sleepwalking? I do not have any specific knowledge of what line would be drawn by sleep scientists as far as SP and sleep walking. I know my mom was in a state where she saw things that were not there and would talk in full, but crazy sentances. She may open her bedroom door, come into the room and see me. Then in a staggering drunken type of motion she would say something like, "the thing!, there, that thing on the wall" then point at the wall. I would say "mom, your sleep walking." She may glare at me and say "No! Why are you doing this to me!" and then fall onto the floor and struggle to get back up. Events like this happened very often. I have always assumed she must be having a dream and acting it out, while also interacting with the physical world.

[Sivason]

I tend to view NREM dreams like advanced day dreams. I can sit in this chair, close my eyes and imagine myself slam dunking a basketball. If I really try it can be imagined in great detail and I can feel as if I'm really doing it. But at no time is my physical body in any danger of moving. I think NREM dreams function in a similar fashion. That is a great description. I feel your skill with actually feeling your vivid day dreams is needed to take full advantage of nREM lucids. While nREM dreams are clearly advanced and comlex compared to day dreams, your description matches my experience. Dutchraptor, now that you mention it, my mom's sleep walking dream like experiences were always full f anxiety, fear and anger. Honestly almost every time I remember, she was more or less freaking out. As per our earier conversation, I am a poor judge, because my nREMs are likely not the same as most peoples.

[intheworldofnim]

That is a great description. I feel your skill with actually feeling your vivid day dreams is needed to take full advantage of nREM lucids. While nREM dreams are clearly advanced and comlex compared to day dreams, your description matches my experience. Dutchraptor, now that you mention it, my mom's sleep walking dream like experiences were always full f anxiety, fear and anger. Honestly almost every time I remember, she was more or less freaking out. As per our earier conversation, I am a poor judge, because my nREMs are likely not the same as most peoples. could your mom be suffering from night terrors? [EDIT] after refreshing my memory on night terrors, I must say night terrors sounds much more like what your explaining with your mom. people who experience night terrors usually experience them in a sleepwalking like state, the images they see usually result from the hypnogogic hallucinations we get during NREM sleep. Some even form short little dreamlits but the main difference is that people with night terrors have much more awarness of there surroundings than sufferers of sleep behavioural disorder. Even during dreamlits, a night terror sufferer will still have some sort of awarness of their surroundings. When they run out of their beds, they will usually aim straight for the door while a SBD sufferer might not even know there was a door he/she needed to go through.

[intheworldofnim]

Like I said to you earlier sivason, nrem dreams are commonly associated with worries and bad feelings, yet only for some people. My sister always wakes up from a "dream" screaming and twirling probably because she has alot of stress. Most people probably don't act out their nrem dreams because they are not encountering the fright some people do. not necessarily, some one who doesn't get sleep paralysis will act out whatever movement they do in a dream, rather that be scratching your back or walking. fear has little to do with that.

[Sivason]

could your mom be suffering from night terrors? [EDIT] after refreshing my memory on night terrors, I must say night terrors sounds much more like what your explaining with your mom. people who experience night terrors usually experience them in a sleepwalking like state, the images they see usually result from the hypnogogic hallucinations we get during NREM sleep. Some even form short little dreamlits but the main difference is that people with night terrors have much more awarness of there surroundings than sufferers of sleep behavioural disorder. Even during dreamlits, a night terror sufferer will still have some sort of awarness of their surroundings. When they run out of their beds, they will usually aim straight for the door while a SBD sufferer might not even know there was a door he/she needed to go through. I really do not know enough about what science calls each type of sleep problem, but the term 'night terrors' seems very fitting for my mom. Plus, she acted just like you describe, so that is probably what it was.