Thread: Lucid Dreaming Fundamentals -- With Q & A

Well sage i have another kinda philosphical question.

I was really thinking about the self- awareness improving techniques like RC's and i began to wonder: WHY exactly do they improve self awareness?

I mean, what does testing your reality, or asking where were you 5 minutes ago for example have to do with being aware that your dreaming?

I can't really see what the connection is, is it the questioning or the habit of examining your state, maybe something else?

I don't remember if i asked you this, nor am i sure you have an answer, but i really wanted to ask it and hopefully you know why...

^^ Yes, I do think you already know the answer to this question, because we all, by our nature, know the answer... that is what self-awareness is, in a nutshell. That said:

When doing RC's or RRC's you are not, in the end, testing reality. Reality is always there, whether we acknowldge it or not. What you are testing is your ability to understand that you are a component of reality, and are interacting with it always (whether or not you wish to do so). LaBerge originally called RC's "state tests," and not reality checks, specifically because he understood that the term "reality" might warp the real meaning of the test -- and he was correct. So asking about where you were and what you were doing five minutes ago (fifteen or twenty would be better, I think) is more about questioning your position in reality, your relation to it, and (above all) your interaction with it. In terms of LD'ing, what you are doing is associating your presence, your existence, directly with your environment, and if you are able to do this in a dream, you will know that environment is You, and your place -- and power -- in the dream will be much better understood.

Regarding the "habit" of doing state tests, I personally am not a fan of the concept that if you make a habit of doing state tests in wakng-life, then you will by habit do a state test in a non-lucid dream and become lucid through the process. This for me by definition does not work: you must be slightly lucid in a dream in order to do a RC, or else you will simply be dreaming you are doing a RC (and likely the RC will not fail, confirming that the dream is "real"). So the habit of doing RC's might only make your dreaming mind produce a schema that duplicates a successful RC, and that doesn't help much. Now, I know that over the course of the 200 or so posts I put on this thread that something different might have been implied, but this is how I feel, all implications aside. In other words, you are not doing RC's and RRC's to create a habit, but a state of mind. That state of mind will follow you into a dream, not from habit but from focus: you put your head in the right place often enough, and it just might find itself in the right place during a dream. This is not habit so much as intellectual and spiritual conditioning.

tl;dr: Doing state tests improve self-awareness because they A) Give you a quiet moment to consider your state, your potential for self-awareness; and B) Put your mind in the right place for LD'ing, for understanding that this is a dream (or might be a dream), and this dream relates directly to you and your interaction with it (AKA: self-awareness).

I hope that made sense, and didn't contradict too many things I've already said. If it didn't make sense, or does contradict, then I humbly suggest you look at my first few posts on this thread, and maybe review the two mental prep sessions of my WILD class, because I think I spoke more explicitly about this stuff in those places.

Hi Sageous,

I’ve returned with yet a few more questions about self-awareness:

I like to think I have a decent level of self-awareness at the moment, but even with having high expectations, I don’t really become lucid that often. What I have noticed though is that when I try to ‘up’ my self-awareness during the day, by doing things similar to the RRC or the Clear Light Perspective, I do feel more conscious in dreams (sometimes almost fully lucid) and they’re much easier to remember as well.

Now these times may have been coincidence, but I guess what I’m confused about here is that while having a good sense of self and how you interact with things (the kind that takes years to develop) is very important for LD’ing (and waking life, of course), it won’t really be of any use to you, or can’t really be relied upon on its own unless you make an effort to be self-aware in the short-term as well, right? (like doing RRCs during the day). And is this also what helps you in a dream to unlock that huge storehouse of self-awareness you’ve spent years accumulating?

I think it’s very possible for someone who has a good level of self-awareness to pass through certain days without exerting much self-awareness, or actively consider their presence in reality. Their overall sense of self which has taken years to develop is a comfortable condition of their psyche, but even though they may not always be considering how they are interacting with things, the self-aware mindset is still always ‘there’, and can easily come into play when it’s needed.

On a different note, is it possible to lose self-awareness? This is something I’ve wondered about for a while now, and have even been concerned about. It would be sad to think that after having accumulated such a strong sense of self, that this could become lost or distant if you didn’t keep up your self-awareness “practices” to some extent. Is this even possible?

Thanks again in advance, Sageous. I hope I haven’t made things sound too confusing here; if so, I’ll try to rephrase it.

Originally Posted by Eamo24

I like to think I have a decent level of self-awareness at the moment, but even with having high expectations, I don’t really become lucid that often. What I have noticed though is that when I try to ‘up’ my self-awareness during the day, by doing things similar to the RRC or the Clear Light Perspective, I do feel more conscious in dreams (sometimes almost fully lucid) and they’re much easier to remember as well.

That makes sense, on a lot of levels. If you are actively working on your self-awareness during the day, the mindset you nurtured will likely linger into your dreams -- and might make some level of lucidity more likely. And no, though it does help, just doing the self-awareness work won't automatically make you lucid; you still must work the other fundamentals through things like MILD and building expectation/intentions (which also do not work well on their own).

As an aside: It's great that you think you have a decent level of self-awareness, and I hope you can maintain that (more on that in a sec), but it's a very good idea, I've found, to never assume that you have a decent sense of self-awareness, as that sort of creates a mental comfort level that tends to move you away from being self-aware... the extreme of this being that if you ask a person who you know lacks any self-awareness -- even a narcissist -- if they are self-aware, they will almost invariably say, "Of course i am; constantly!" Again, this is just an aside, and more a quiet warning than any assumption or doubt of your own self-awareness.

Now these times may have been coincidence, but I guess what I’m confused about here is that while having a good sense of self and how you interact with things (the kind that takes years to develop) is very important for LD’ing (and waking life, of course), it won’t really be of any use to you, or can’t really be relied upon on its own unless you make an effort to be self-aware in the short-term as well, right? (like doing RRCs during the day).

I think the answer to this is "Yes," period.

Not leaving well enough alone: the kind of self-awareness that takes years to develop, though not terribly helpful to your immediate LD'ing goals and work, will definitely help you become lucid more easily in the (far) future. Indeed, should your sense of Self mature to a very high level, things like RRC's will no longer be necessary, even a bit silly.

And is this also what helps you in a dream to unlock that huge storehouse of self-awareness you’ve spent years accumulating?

I'd say so.

I think it’s very possible for someone who has a good level of self-awareness to pass through certain days without exerting much self-awareness, or actively consider their presence in reality. Their overall sense of self which has taken years to develop is a comfortable condition of their psyche, but even though they may not always be considering how they are interacting with things, the self-aware mindset is still always ‘there’, and can easily come into play when it’s needed.

Agreed. Also, like anything else, a refined sense of Self becomes a part of you over time, and you will tend to access that part as needed (i.e., during social situations), and ignore it when not needed (like when watching movies or playing video games). Being constantly self-aware would be extremely difficult, I think, and also a bit tiring and distracting... I would bet even the Dali Lama has the occasional movie night!

On a different note, is it possible to lose self-awareness? This is something I’ve wondered about for a while now, and have even been concerned about. It would be sad to think that after having accumulated such a strong sense of self, that this could become lost or distant if you didn’t keep up your self-awareness “practices” to some extent. Is this even possible?

Absolutely it's possible! Self-awareness is a mental muscle that must be regularly exercised. As your self-awareness matures over the years into a sort of second-nature, your maintenance practices will likely mature right along with it. I have no idea what you will be doing to maintain your sense of Self in 30 years, but I can guarantee that it will not be RRC's, and likely will not be anything you are doing now. But you will be doing something, because if you do not, the complacency and comfort of operating in zombie mode (aka, the human norm) will eventually erase all your years of hard work.

Hi Sageous.First Thanks your thread.I have some questions:
1.What's your opinion about the whole Binaural Beats,Isochronic Tones...etc
2.What's your opinion about free tones of this site:iso-tones.com
3.If you have any better free resources share if you wouldn't mind please.

also this one:
dreamviews.com/blogs/likestotrip/binaural-beats-audio-aids-15815

My opinion about binaural beats, Ramin, is that I do not have an opinion on binaural beats, isochronic tones, or for that matter subliminal recordings or whatever other clever tool is being invented that will somehow tune your mind to better focus or lucidity. Okay, so that's an opinion in itself, isn't it? I guess I just don't care about them, as a LD'ing tool, so I can't give you the informed opinion you seek.

In my defense, I have tried them myself, as I have also tried many meditation-oriented recordings (subliminal or just guided), and so many of the other lucid aids that have come and gone over the years. They did pretty much nothing for me, so I moved on. I have also read reports on others using them, and honestly have been unimpressed by their general results, so I haven't taken these things terribly seriously.

Perhaps I should have; I don't know, but if you look at the OP of this thread, you'll see that, though they certainly might help you as an ancillary tool, I would not include aids like binaural beats, etc, in my list of fundamentals for successful LD'ing. If they help you, then that's cool, but they are not the thing that will bring you to lucidity; you still must do that on your own. Also, obviously, I cannot refer you to any other sources of this stuff; sorry!

tl;dr: Unfortunately, I have nothing for you on this subject, Ramin. This may be a first for me!

Just a few quick questions I have before starting your WILD class. These questions have probably already been asked before in this thread but I haven't had the time to read all of the posts yet...so sorry if you've repeated the same answer multiple times.

So does the Reverse Reality Check method to increase Self-Awareness also help with DILD's (MILD's too)... so if I fail at a WILD attempt, I could still DILD or if I MILD before going to bed I could LD from the self-awareness? If the Self-Awareness does help with MILD and DILD, then we could just be doing these techniques in your class to learn to WILD/DILD/MILD all in one? (This is like the ultimate class if that is the case ) And do we learn of other ways to increase self-awareness throughout the class? Or do we have to develop our own ways once this technique becomes insufficient? Also, this technique is like Puffin's SAT kind of right..as in you don't keep it up all day long?

In your fundamentals list, you said that memory was very important. Do we learn ways of increasing our memory in later lessons? And if we don't, how do we practice memory and when do we practice it (Do we do it at the same time as the RRC)?

Finally, are we also supposed to be RCing while doing the RRC? Or is that not really required?

Also, this may be a bit off topic but this is regarding Dream Journaling. Do you recommend that it is on an electronic device, or physical paper? I really don't have a good spare notebook that could be dedicated specifically for LDing. They are almost all used up and I don't think my parent's would let me buy a notebook for that. (Even though they cost liek 25 cents. They'd say no just to say no )

Thank you in advance. And I'm sure I'll have a lot more questions as time goes on These are just before I start.

Welcome, Sharpshoey! Here are a couple quick answers to your quick questions:

Originally Posted by Sharpshoey

So does the Reverse Reality Check method to increase Self-Awareness also help with DILD's (MILD's too)... so if I fail at a WILD attempt, I could still DILD or if I MILD before going to bed I could LD from the self-awareness?

Yup.

If the Self-Awareness does help with MILD and DILD, then we could just be doing these techniques in your class to learn to WILD/DILD/MILD all in one? (This is like the ultimate class if that is the case

Yup again. If I were doing a DILD class, quite a bit of the material would be identical.

And do we learn of other ways to increase self-awareness throughout the class? Or do we have to develop our own ways once this technique becomes insufficient? Also, this technique is like Puffin's SAT kind of right..as in you don't keep it up all day long?

Sadly, no; I don't offer much in terms of specific techniques beyond the RRC's. Since self-awareness is such a personal state, it probably is a good idea that, once you understand its importance and basic definition, you wander off on your own to develop the techniques that work best for you. And yeah, that was a cop out, but it doesn't make it less true!

In your fundamentals list, you said that memory was very important. Do we learn ways of increasing our memory in later lessons? And if we don't, how do we practice memory and when do we practice it (Do we do it at the same time as the RRC)?

When I talk about memory as a fundamental I am, oddly I suppose, not talking about memory skills or learning to remember better, and I am certainly not talking about dream recall (which is important in general, but not here). I am talking about accessing memory that is normally unavailable during dreams. This access isn't so much about tapping some special memory skill (or bank) as it is being aware that your can and should remember where, say, you were 20 minutes ago. So in a sense, in the context of this course your memory is brought into the equation through the RRC's and improved self-awareness. If you are interested in improving your dream recall or developing prospective memory, you unfortunately won't find any more here about it... though they are very important for, say, MILD or journaling, I felt including them in a WILD class of tis sort was not necessary.

Finally, are we also supposed to be RCing while doing the RRC? Or is that not really required?

Sure. RC's and their critical questions serve a different purpose than RRC's and their quiet wondering, and ought to be done as well. Doing an RC before or after an RRC has always worked nicely for me (don't try to do them at the exact same time, though).

Also, this may be a bit off topic but this is regarding Dream Journaling. Do you recommend that it is on an electronic device, or physical paper? I really don't have a good spare notebook that could be dedicated specifically for LDing. They are almost all used up and I don't think my parent's would let me buy a notebook for that. (Even though they cost liek 25 cents. They'd say no just to say no )

Since there is something special about manually writing dreams down in as great a detail as you can, something that seems to connect the act of writing to more firmly etching your dream into long-term memory, I have to recommend writing them down over electroincally recording them... try to get your parents to spring for the extra writing tablet or two that you'll need.

Thank you in advance. And I'm sure I'll have a lot more questions as time goes on These are just before I start.

No problem. Enjoy the course, and good luck!

So with the RRC's, I basically just quickly image where I just was, where I will be, and where I am now. (not where my physical body is, but where "I" am) Then I just wonder about my presence in the moment and that everyone and everything has an effect on me and vice-versa. But I don't really talk to myself or ask any questions with answers, I just simply wonder and know that everyone and everything has an effect on me and vice-versa? I also am not supposed to think about what those effects are right? Because wouldn't that be too much thinking? Do I have a good understanding of this?

It seems really simple if that's the case...and hopefully I made since with my question.

^^ Sounds like you got it... and it is that simple!

Just a quick adjustment, though: when you are wondering, think less about everything and everyone, and more about the specific exchange you are having with your local reality. Also, it's okay to think about the effects you had on things/people, and they on you; for instance, if you just had a conversation with a friend tha didn't go well, you can think about what effect your words had. Strangely enough, this is actually much simpler than thinking about everyone and everything.

Oh, and sure, you can ask yourself this stuff aloud, tnough I'd be careful about doing it in public!

OK so just to make sure I'm doing this technique right, I will post a few examples of what I'm doing here, and then you can see if I'm doing it right or not. I'd hate to practice it the wrong way for a few months and then it doesn't help at all.

So here is one example. I was in the car and decided to do the RRC. I quickly imagined myself five minutes ago, and I imagined myself in 5 minutes. Then I told myself I am here right now and that I exist. Then I would just know that I have an effect on the people and things around me, and they have an effect on me. I'll think about what I'm doing right now to effect things and how they effect me, or I'll think about this exchange between me and something else that was recently in the past. I usually only think about one or two examples of exchanges between me and something else each RRC. I let my mind wander and right before it tries to think too deeply about this exchange and come up with things that never happened or come up with lots of explanations, I'll just focus on the fact that I know that I have an effect on those things and they have an effect on me. And Ill just think about that instead of thinking about the individual exchanges taking place.

If I can't think about any certain exchanges going on at the time, I will just use your example and imagine myself trading atoms with another thing I'm touching, or the air and how it has to bend around me, or my breathing in the air and breathing it out. Then I finish it off with a quick RC. I try to keep these really short, but sometimes I accidentally let my mind think too deeply about things, and I continue it for a bit too long.

^^ Well, I guess it's safe to say that you have got the RRC routine down in a literal sense, and you have also reminded me that this technique has evolved a bit in my head since that original WILD Session 1 was written over two years ago!

I think you might be seeing the RRC as more of a concrete technique than I originally intended (which could be my fault). The RRC is meant to have you wonder, sincerely, simply, and casually, about your interaction with your local reality while also placing you in that reality in a noticeable and memory-friendly way.... wait, this isn't working; let me just respond directly, bit by bit:

Originally Posted by Sharpshoey

So here is one example. I was in the car and decided to do the RRC. I quickly imagined myself five minutes ago, and I imagined myself in 5 minutes.

Okay so far. If five minutes seems too short a time-span, though, feel free to add a bit more. The concept is to ask yourself where you just were, where you are now, and where you will be shortly; 5 minutes is not a requirement. Also, no need to imagine yourself 5 minutes ago, etc; just remembering is fine.

Then I told myself I am here right now and that I exist. Then I would just know that I have an effect on the people and things around me, and they have an effect on me.

Okay again, but rather than just knowing, try wondering about what that effect was, and how you were effected. By the same token, look more for simple proof that you exist right now, rather than just telling yourself that you do. Also, try not to even use the word "exist," as that can lead to abstractions or intellectualizations that might inadvertently turn you away from the actual interaction with reality.

I'll think about what I'm doing right now to effect things and how they effect me, or I'll think about this exchange between me and something else that was recently in the past. I usually only think about one or two examples of exchanges between me and something else each RRC. I let my mind wander and right before it tries to think too deeply about this exchange and come up with things that never happened or come up with lots of explanations, I'll just focus on the fact that I know that I have an effect on those things and they have an effect on me. And Ill just think about that instead of thinking about the individual exchanges taking place.

I'm assuming that when you're actually doing the RRC it will be less abstract than this example. If not, try to head in that direction. But otherwise, yes, you've got the idea.

If I can't think about any certain exchanges going on at the time, I will just use your example and imagine myself trading atoms with another thing I'm touching, or the air and how it has to bend around me, or my breathing in the air and breathing it out. Then I finish it off with a quick RC. I try to keep these really short, but sometimes I accidentally let my mind think too deeply about things, and I continue it for a bit too long.

You know, I've hated that "trading atoms" example almost since I wrote it, but I guess it does work, when you otherwise have nothing... I think I would try to come up with something more substantial -- literally visible -- these days (I vaguely remember suggesting that, even if you were just sitting in your living room doing nothing five minutes ago, you made a dent in the couch, and left it warm for the next person to notice). But again, you seem to have the idea.

In a nutshell: if you are remembering where you were/what you were doing a few minutes ago, foreseeing where you will be/what you will be doing in a few minutes, noticing where you are/what you are doing right now, and are honestly wondering about your interaction with your local reality throughout all that, without getting too esoteric, abstract, or technically complex in your wondering, then yes, you are doing a RRC. If you come up with a different way to generate this wondering about your interaction with reality that is more comfortable for you, go ahead and do it; it is more important that you do the wondering at all, and with sincerity, than it is to do it "right."

So, again, you seem to understand the RRC, Sharpshoey, and probably will understand it better than I do in no time at all!

OK so I have been keeping up with the RRC's and I've been doing them consistently everday so far. I'm 99.9% certain I get the basics of how to do it, but I have a little problem. I can't seem to come up with very many good questions, or ways to look at the exchanges taking place. I have a few but they are pretty much the same basic ones every time. Maybe as I keep practicing and get more Self Awareness than I will start to come up with more questions and it will be easier for me? Hopefully that is the case, because I can't just really on examples you give to help wonder about the interaction with me and my reality.

When I say questions, I don't really mean asking questions. I just mean ways to think about the exchanges taking place between me and my reality. Overall I find this to be very enjoyable when I'm doing it, and it is crazy how many exchanges are taking place that we don't even ever think about! I know I must be doing this right, because it gets me more in the moment and thinking about how I affect other people and things and how they affect me.

Anyways, thank you for all of your help so far. It is greatly appreciated!

^^ Then you are indeed doing your RRC's correctly, Sharpshoey.

The "questions," as you describe them, should become more elusive as you develop a stronger sense of your entanglement with your local reality (aka, self-awareness). They also ought to become more enjoyable to explore as you find yourself wondering about things you never knew existed, but were always there.

But as advanced as you get at this, never forget to ask those three contextual questions (where was I? Where am I? Where will I be?), because they not only set up the real wondering you'll do, but sincerely asking them, and wondering about the answers, is not only great for self-awareness but will come in very handy come dreamtime: When done during a dream, RRC's establish your position in a world that is all "You," and give your access to memory a little kick to boot. In time, of course, you won't actually ask the questions, but will simply have them with you as a framework for the whole thing -- at least that is the way it worked for me.

So nice work, and thanks for sharing; I always appreciate hearing stuff like this!

I would like to share a few examples of (I think) one type of interaction, and see what you think:
I'm walking in a crowded city and look at the people around me, I notice so much people makes me feel alert to thieves and I'm tensing up a little bit, but then I realize I could have a similar, or contrary, effect on others depending on my looks, and wonder how other people in my way feel about me. Then I notice some doves taking off near me, and I wonder that they probably got scared of me. I look around for more animals and see a dog playing, and notice this makes me feel good and draws a smile on my face.
EDIT: That would be *after* the three questions, of course.

^^ Those are fine images, provided you were walking through a city and did see those things. Also, keep in mind that, though feelings are certainly a good thing, you should be wondering about where you actually were, where you actually will be, where you are right now, and how your presence and actions in all three time-frames are directly effecting reality, and it you. Try not to dwell too much on feelings (especially imagined feelings from others) and more on what is really going on.

An RRC is all about your actual interaction with your local reality, whether that interaction involves crowds of people or just yourself in an empty room, and that interaction can and will include more than just feelings. Be sure that the things you are wondering about are real, as well, and not just things you are imagining (like the feelings of unknown passersby). This all might sound a bit nitpicky, I know, but it will matter come dreamtime.


[Edit: I just noticed how long it took me to respond to your post; sorry for the delay!]

Thanks, Sageous, that clarified things a lot for me!

I just had a thought about something, and I'd like to ask you about it to clear things up. This doesn't necessarily pertain to this WILD class, but to the self-awareness that is so important. So in ETWOLD, LaBerge talks about the critical state testing...or that reflection-intention technique that goes along with it. Would testing our state like that build self-awareness? The reason I am wondering is because it managed to apparently give quite a few people at least a lucid a night after much practice. It also said that after a few months of practice, you wouldn't even really need the technique anymore, and you could lucid dream on willpower or something like that. (I think it said that or maybe I misinterpreted it)

So I guess my question is, does this technique do essentially what your RRC does? I'm just curious about the other ways to increase self awareness, because you said there were a lot more ways.

^^ Sure, LaBerge's critical state test is similar to a RRC, and a person interested in building their self-awareness could certainly use it to that purpose, but only as much as all these LD'ing techniques are similar, and can be used by a person interested in building their self-awareness, given the very narrow end (LD'ing) to their means. In terms of their specific goals as techniques though, a critical state test and a RRC do not do essentially the same thing.

The critical state test is more a massaging of a certain faculty of mind in order to get it (your mind) to work for you during the dream, which is essentially the same target as a regular, finger-thru-palm-type, RC. The question asked -- am I dreaming? -- is answered by physical confirmation, and not by a sense of wonder about your past/present/future participation in your local reality. In a sense, a critical state test is meant to be a direct trigger to remind you that you are dreaming, while a RRC is meant to be a vehicle for helping you understand the place you are in, once you are already lucid. [Remember that a RRC was originally meant to be paired with WILD, and with WILD you are lucid throughout the adventure, so you are already lucid at any given point in the WILD dive.]

Also, I think the RRC does a lot more to help you to access memory: by asking where you were and what you were doing recently (and where you will be; and where you are now, for that matter), you are attempting to tap memory in a conscious, active way, and hopefully in a way that will restore your connection with memory during the dream. The critical state test, while relying tacitly on memory (just as critical thinking itself relies tacitly on memory), has no real interest in creating a direct connection with memory.

tl;dr: These techniques do not do essentially the same things. Like a regular RC, a critical state test is a valuable tool, and would work well if done just before a RRC: the state test might bring you to lucidity ("Hey! This is a dream!"), and then the RRC might open you up to the potentials of lucidity ("This entire world is me; cool!"). A critical state test is more interested in the function of awareness than it is in the acknowledgement and acquisition of self-awareness and memory. The two techniques are similar in that they are both meant to aid lucidity, but they are not essentially the same because they do two very different, though certainly complementary, things.

[This post led me to a curious aside: In rereading the passage on this in EWOLD today for reference, I couldn't help but notice an interesting thing: LaBerge never really mentions self-awareness, there or anywhere else in the book. He also only discusses memory in terms of mnemonics or prospective memory. I found it initially odd that he discussed his critical state test without ever openly mentioning that it was a lack of memory that allowed seeing that girl with four eyes to initially make sense, and that the critical thinking involved was more about tapping memory than it was about doing any logical deducing. But then I noticed that memory, or rather its general absence in a NLD, is barely mentioned in the book.

It's as if self-awareness is simply understood, and access to memory does not matter. I have a feeling that if you talk to LaBerge about LD'ing today, all he would discuss is memory and self-awareness. Curious. I wonder if, given the chance, LaBerge would rewrite EWOLD to reflect these things more clearly... or not: EWOLD was more a book meant to "get you lucid," and quickly; including esoteric things like self-awareness and memory, fundamental as they are to successful long-term quality LD'ing, might have gotten in the way of the mechanical process being discussed. ]

Hello Sageous.

I have been interested in joining your WILD class but I am always too busy. I have one question I might ask anyway (I'll take the class later, during the holidays).

I'm a DILD dreamer or something like that. I have not looked at technique definitions in a long while. When I put a lot of focus into it, I have 3 LDs a night and during the bad times, once a month but none of them are as good as the ones I had during my first few months learning about LDing. Anyway, this is just to say, I am quite comfortable with the LD experience (I never become lucid from RCs or such, I just know).

Now, this is thing. I have never had a WILD. Even though I try most nights and most times when I wake up. Every time, I stay aware, and make my mind pretty empty. I have little thoughts and can resist my needs to move pretty well now. The thing is, I'll wait a whole hour and I am still awake. At that point, I normally tell myself, if I continue doing this, will I just not sleep all night? So, I stop and go to sleep and fail to have a WILD. The furthest I've gone is after 30-40 minutes, feeling something like I was dissociating from my body (sorry for this metaphor because I am not experiencing an OBE). It lasts 2 seconds, feels super peculiar, and then, I'm back to normal.

In brief, When, I focus on staying aware/conscious before falling asleep (whether before sleep or after waking up during the night), will I fall asleep even if I fail to have a WILD or will I continue to stay awake, like in a meditation state, for the whole night? The point here, is, I think, I don't fail to do WILDs because I fall asleep before I get to the dream but because I feel more like I am meditating, than ever falling alseep. So I give up and just sleep instead by not focusing on awareness anymore.

Thank you, Sageous.

Originally Posted by Occipitalred

... When I focus on staying aware/conscious before falling asleep (whether before sleep or after waking up during the night), will I fall asleep even if I fail to have a WILD or will I continue to stay awake, like in a meditation state, for the whole night? The point here, is, I think, I don't fail to do WILDs because I fall asleep before I get to the dream but because I feel more like I am meditating, than ever falling asleep. So I give up and just sleep instead by not focusing on awareness anymore.

The simple answer is yes. You will fall asleep normally and continue your night's sleep, whether or not you have a successful WILD.

That is sort of the purpose of WBTB, I think: it is meant to be a case where you wake up, set your intentions, get your dreamy-mind-hat on, and then rejoin your night's sleep. The whole plan is that you can jump back into your sleep cycle, preferably right during a REM period, and that sort of necessitates that your sleep cycle should remain reasonably intact. So yes, you will sleep normally; try not to worry about that!

So if you feel like you're just meditating and not sleeping yet, keep up the good work; you'll be asleep eventually. I usually wait up to 2 hours before I decide I'm not going to sleep, BTW.

I think the course addresses this concern somewhere, so taking it might indeed help you. If you do, then good luck!

Hi there,

First, Sageous, thanks for all these tutorials and for your time. Second, I have a question about self awareness.

I will start saying that I read a couple episodes of this tutorial months ago when I started investigating LDing and different techniques. I didn't focus too much on WILD and in the last months I just had random LDs here and there.

I'm also quite impatient with these things, but this time I would like to give a real and honest try to WILD, following these posts, mainly because I've been having several LDs (even if short) in the last year, and I feel confident with the feeling. That's why I will not read the second class post until next monday. I want to focus on this self-awareness thing first (but I have to admit I will of course still try to WILD or whatever on these days, based on my current knowledge about timings, my REM, etc.).

Now to the point. I've read some pages on this thread (not all 17...), and just want to confirm if I understood correctly your self-awareness tech.

A couple of posters talked about thinking "big" (universe, etc.) and you said it's not the idea, that we need to think on more basic things around us.

So, this is what I did today: As I was driving back from work, first I though about where I was and what I did some moments ago (I recalled talking to a co-worker). Then what I was going to be doing soon (I saw myself preparing lunch). And finally I though on "my place" on this world at that moment.

I looked at the cars on the opposite lane of the highway, and though of myself as just being another more on the road. I tried to visualize my car as others seeing it at that moment probably would. I felt my foot on the accelerator, hands on the wheel. And though of the wind I was probably moving as my car moved.

So... not sure if this is not the right thing. I tried not to ask questions or wonder why... just to observe and to feel.

Maybe this still doesn't give me "self-awareness"??

Thanks!

Welcome, Irreo!

Originally Posted by Irreo

... I have a question about self awareness.

So, this is what I did today: As I was driving back from work, first I though about where I was and what I did some moments ago (I recalled talking to a co-worker). Then what I was going to be doing soon (I saw myself preparing lunch). And finally I though on "my place" on this world at that moment.

I looked at the cars on the opposite lane of the highway, and though of myself as just being another more on the road. I tried to visualize my car as others seeing it at that moment probably would. I felt my foot on the accelerator, hands on the wheel. And though of the wind I was probably moving as my car moved.

Well, you started out well, in what you observed, and what you asked, but I think you may have misunderstood the basic instruction of the RRC:

So... not sure if this is not the right thing. I tried not to ask questions or wonder why... just to observe and to feel. Maybe this still doesn't give me "self-awareness"?

You actually ought to have been asking questions (where was I, what was I doing? where am I, What am I doing? Where will I be, what will I be doing?), which you basically did. But more important, you must wonder about your interaction with your local reality as you consider these three things. Wonder about who or what you might have effected each time, and how reality effected you each time. Wondering is the thing that makes this exercise work, especially in the dream. Also, unless feelings are directly involved with the interaction you are considering (i.e., you said something to make a friend feel bad, or you are headed for a difficult conversation at home), don't worry too much about feelings. You are looking more at your direct transaction with reality, and considering emotions can have a tendency to cloud that consideration.

I think you may have gotten confused by my suggestions to people that they avoid wondering about the entire universe during their RRC's, because that only makes their participation in reality, and the importance of their awareness of that participation, seem insignificant, which is not where you want to go when gathering self-awareness. If you wonder deeply about your interaction with your local reality, though. For instance, if you are in the car, think about the lane change you made a few minutes earlier, and how that changed the focus of the person driving behind you (especially if that lane change was sudden), or think about the pavement your car is pounding over right now, and how you are grinding it up just a tiny little bit (and that that pavement is vibrating your body just a bit, letting you know it has presence and impact as well), and maybe think of where you will be arriving shortly, and who will see you when you show up, and perhaps about what might be said to you then. These are just examples, and you will certainly come up with your own unique observations, but the key thing in all this is to take a moment and really wonder about your interaction with your local reality.

So: Yes, wondering is good (keep it local!), and will be the thing that helps you stir up some self-awareness. Keep in mind also that nothing will "give" you self-awareness; you must summon it on your own. The RRC might help a bit, but it is your decision to be self-aware, it is not given to you by the technique.

Also, I'm glad you're doing one session per week instead of all at once, as I think it will work better that way for you. So be patient, because patience is key in WILD, do your homework, and above all have fun... good luck!