Thread: Lucid Dreaming Fundamentals -- With Q & A

Originally Posted by Sageous

the thing I'm working on now is something I'm calling a "Trinity Engine." What I do is eliminate the dream, set my presence (I never have a dream body in high-level Lucids) on a simple plane, and try to create before me an assemblage of three pieces, one representing my body, one my mind, and one my soul. Once the engine is assembled, I hope to have before me a metaphor that will allow me to communicate with the three facets of my being all at the same time. Sounds simple, right? I've been trying to do this for years now, and can't even get the simple plane to appear, much less conjure the three pieces... For reasons I cannot explain, this is amazingly difficult, like I've got a mental block or something. Hey, you asked!

I'm new to LDing, and came across this form in my research. This post sparked my curiosity. Did you ever complete this "trinity engine" or did you stop trying? if so why?

Welcome to DreamViews, Game Dungeon!

My trinity engine is up and running, and has even received a bunch of modifications. I still have trouble getting it to do what I'd originally hoped it to do, and visualizing it still remains elusive (I've learned to live without "seeing" it, but simply "knowing" it is there), but I haven't given up yet, and likely won't anytime soon; some things are worth the struggle!

Originally Posted by Sageous

My trinity engine is up and running, and has even received a bunch of modifications. I still have trouble getting it to do what I'd originally hoped it to do, and visualizing it still remains elusive (I've learned to live without "seeing" it, but simply "knowing" it is there), but I haven't given up yet, and likely won't anytime soon; some things are worth the struggle!

Is there anything you have learned from it that you willing to share? If not I understand as it must be quite personal. You said some things are worth the struggle, has it proved its worth yet?

Thanks for the response .

Yeah, I think it would be difficult to share what I've learned so far, both because it is quite personal/difficult to describe without sounding crazy, and I'm not sure my work quite lines up with these forums [and yes, Shadowofwind, if you're still reading these things, that was the kind of "mystic dodge" that we both hate -- go figure].

Has it proved its worth yet? No, not even close, but I'm given enough good days and subtle hints that inspire me to keep the engine turning.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Yeah, I think it would be difficult to share what I've learned so far, both because it is quite personal/difficult to describe without sounding crazy, and I'm not sure my work quite lines up with these forums [and yes, Shadowofwind, if you're still reading these things, that was the kind of "mystic dodge" that we both hate -- go figure].

Has it proved its worth yet? No, not even close, but I'm given enough good days and subtle hints that inspire me to keep the engine turning.

Understandable, thanks for the reply

Originally Posted by Sageous

In a recent PM Darkmatters, in response to some of my fairly incomplete posts that hint at my experience and slightly different path for LD’ing success, asked me to share with the forum “How I did it,” and maybe create a thread in which other dreamers could ask specific questions I might attempt to answer. Normally I’d pass on doing this, since my methods and perspectives don’t always mirror the general consensus of what works, and I feel no need to intentionally stir the water around here (something I seem to do all the time anyway -- sorry!). Also, a voice somewhere in the back of my head regularly asks, “Who the hell are you to assume to know more than they do?” Good reasons to keep my trap shut, all; but, as I’ve been at this for well over 30 years with some real success, and Darkmatters insists, maybe there is something worth sharing. If you don’t think so, just move to another thread. If you’re curious about what you would ask me, then read on…

First, a little history: I’ve been doing this LD’ing thing intentionally since the 1970’s – long before PC’s, smart phones, and the Web itself. Even books on the subject were scarce and often misguided. Nobody I knew understood what this was, or really gave a crap if I dared to describe it. By the early ‘80’s I had done it all dream-wise: flown, traveled through space (my version, I’m sure), controlled every aspect of dream schema, chatted with all manner of DC, died, had what felt like OBE’s and shared dreams, etc, etc, etc. I even wrote waking-life novels (mostly much later) about it all, building their plots around my actual dreams. But there was something missing: I wanted to use LD’ing as a tool for transcendence, as a way to move my consciousness toward spiritual and physical experiences that humans are not naturally meant to have. But all the stuff I did hadn’t been helping. In fact, it seemed that it may have served as a block to my seeing what I needed to see -- the excitement and adventure inherent in low-level lucidity reduces interest in doing hard work to expand to higher levels.

I was on my own until the ‘90’s when Stephen LaBerge’s EWOLD fell in my lap (it came with the Dream Light I had ordered from a catalog). From it I learned that there were terms for what I’d been doing for decades, and that I wasn’t alone. I discovered that I had not just been aware I was dreaming all that time; I had been experiencing Lucid dreams. And I was inducing them with what apparently were called WILD and DILD induction techniques (before that I just called them “Lying there until the dream starts”, and “waking up in a dream,” respectively). To give the experience a name did help, but only to define, not improve, my experience.

By the early 2,000’s, after trying just about everything, including hypno-tapes (yes, tapes), machines (that Dream Light cost $1,200, BTW), and guru-based dream camps, I came to the conclusion that all the “stuff,” including supplements like gallantamine and vitamin B6, cleverly named techniques like WILD, DILD, and MILD, really did nothing to further push my LD’ing envelope. In time I realized -- mostly on my own but also by picking the brains of very experienced LD’ers while I moderated the Lucidity Institute’s forum for a couple of years -- that it wasn’t the stuff that made even the weakest LD’s tick; it was careful attention to the fundamentals.

In a sense, LD’ing is a 3-legged stool. The first leg is the state of dreaming itself, and the second and third legs are self-awareness and memory. The absence of any one of these legs means the stool topples and poof! No lucidity. It’s that simple. All the machines, gurus, techniques, and supplements in the world would do nothing, I knew, until I mastered these two things.

Of course I haven’t yet mastered either; that might never happen. Although I -- and any successful LD’er, I must assume -- had some grasp of these “legs,” my hold was far too tenuous to seek the things that I knew I should be able to find. But the act of finally making self-awareness and memory a priority elevated my LD’ing experience from one of enjoying the wonders of my dreams as supplied by my dreaming mind to one of real control, creativity, discovery, and growth. Since improving my self-awareness, some of my dreams, I think, have been downright transcendental in the last few years, and I believe it is because I simplified my quest. Now, for those still with me, the fundamentals:

Self-awareness is nothing more -- or less -- than being aware that you are here, that you have an effect on everything around you, and everything around you has an effect on you. This sounds like a no-brainer, but it’s a lot harder to master than it sounds. Most people are content to live their entire lives without a moment of self-awareness, content to let the events of their world wash over them and to remain unaware of how the things they do and say touch those events…sort of living life like it’s a dream, I suppose. Perfecting self-awareness is simple: pay attention! Unfortunately, humans are naturally wired to not pay this sort of attention, so it takes a lot of work to stay focused and not lapse back into the easy strides taken by those who travel life without ever once checking the path.

Memory is more of a physical issue, because it is inaccessible, or effectively “turned off,” during sleep, naturally out of reach of dreamers. This is why so many things in your dreams seem so normal and obvious, but in reality are impossible. Turning memory back on is not easy, but it can be done. Indeed, there are many mnemonic techniques available that will help you, but suffice it for now to say that if you can’t remember during a dream that your waking life body is sleeping right where you left it, you might never be able to step above the lowest levels of lucidity. And yes, your dreams are certainly filled with “remembered” images; but these images are awash in a matrix of archetypes and powerful long-term memories. Short-term memory, and active long-term memory (the thing that reminds you that cows really can’t fly), are naturally inaccessible. [Edit: I went on a bit further about memory on a separate thread here, if you are interested]

Since developing self-awareness (or a powerful sense of Self) and memory are very personal, often difficult, long-term projects that are done during the dreamer’s waking life, I really think you need to carve your own path toward a goal of achieving them, in terms of method (ie, Lidybug’s Clear Light perspective thread shows her wonderful method for developing self-awareness).

Be advised, though, that doing so will take a while, and likely require some real sacrifices and discipline on your part. If someone offers you a magical shortcut to higher awareness, assume that they are wrong, or lying. All the machines, techniques, etc, are certainly helpful (if you’re interested, I’ll be happy to share what I found works best -- just ask), but they will never get you to high-level lucidity – only your own hard work will.

Okay, I realize that I have spent all these words saying next to nothing that’s really helpful; I would need many thousands of words to do true service to this subject, which is not acceptable in this “tl;dr” world, much less on this forum. Besides, I think in the end I’m better at answering questions than presenting things cold. So, if you’re still with me, ask what you want, and I will tell you what I know, or at least believe – as briefly as possible!

Thanks for bearing with me on the intro, and I do hope that I seeded it with enough stuff that will make you curious enough to ask for more…

You're trully a great inspiration!!! Thank you! namaste!