Thread: WILD According to Sageous Q & A

Just read Session 4, and I have to take a time out to say sometimes I feel like this class is greatly under-appreciated. You are doing a mind-blowingly awesome job of describing everything in the most easy to understand yet in-depth ways and I truly appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us.

Anyway, back on topic. I'm really glad you posted a session about forming your dreams, in my DEILDs (all 2 of them, haha) I've started in my room and simply explored the normal world around me. While these are still great experiences, particularly as I'm new to lucid dreaming, I can't wait to start using some of these forming techniques you described in this session.

I particularly enjoyed the "blob moulding" method you brought up. I'm an artist, and the idea of this just fascinates me and really focuses on one my greatest goals for lucid dreaming, which is to use my lucid dreams for artistic inspiration.

Besides light though, could you give any more examples of random shapes in the real world, i'm having issues discovering things that schemas wouldn't automatically just associate with what the object actually is. Clouds seem like a great one, any others?

Thanks for your kind words, RareCola; they are appreciated. Thanks also for continuing to pay attention.

Now:

Besides light though, could you give any more examples of random shapes in the real world, i'm having issues discovering things that schemas wouldn't automatically just associate with what the object actually is. Clouds seem like a great one, any others?

Actually, feel free to notice objects that your mind can identify quickly; as you noticed it cannot be helped.

The root of the exercise is to catch your mind establishing schemas, or at least being aware of the action occurring. For instance, you might see a small oval object in the corner of your eye. Without looking too closely at it, imagine what it might be -- maybe a rock, or a football, or a bush, or even a Volkswagon. Then look at the object, notice its context, and imagine all the schemas your mind may have scanned before reaching the conclusion that the object was a sleeping dog.

It's not about randomness, it is about considering how your mind can eliminate the randomness by observing the object, its context and condition, and then choosing the best schema to define the object (not to mention the many schemas it also chose to establish the context).

That said, random shapes exist all over the place in nature -- clouds, flowing streams, moving traffic, crowds of people, drifting snow, spilled milk, etc, etc. The thing is, though, that your mind will find and attach a schema to define any shape it sees, even clouds, so that randomness is not long-lived.

As usual I hope that made sense; if it did not, please ask again...this stuff is important.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Thanks for your kind words, RareCola; they are appreciated. Thanks also for continuing to pay attention.

Now:


Actually, feel free to notice objects that your mind can identify quickly; as you noticed it cannot be helped.

The root of the exercise is to catch your mind establishing schemas, or at least being aware of the action occurring. For instance, you might see a small oval object in the corner of your eye. Without looking too closely at it, imagine what it might be -- maybe a rock, or a football, or a bush, or even a Volkswagon. Then look at the object, notice its context, and imagine all the schemas your mind may have scanned before reaching the conclusion that the object was a sleeping dog.

It's not about randomness, it is about considering how your mind can eliminate the randomness by observing the object, its context and condition, and then choosing the best schema to define the object (not to mention the many schemas it also chose to establish the context).

That said, random shapes exist all over the place in nature -- clouds, flowing streams, moving traffic, crowds of people, drifting snow, spilled milk, etc, etc. The thing is, though, that your mind will find and attach a schema to define any shape it sees, even clouds, so that randomness is not long-lived.

As usual I hope that made sense; if it did not, please ask again...this stuff is important.

Alright, I understand. I think the issue I was having before was I was initially focusing too much on the object, the idea of catching something in the corner of my eye seems perfect!

I think I look forward to the lessons more and more with each coming week. I really like the way you explained playing with the HI, pretty much every other tutorial I've read doesn't go into all that much detail about it.

I should really do more RRCs, too, I have been forgetting lately because I'm busy thinking about projects I have to do, finals that are coming up, etc.

Originally Posted by Taffy

I should really do more RRCs, too, I have been forgetting lately because I'm busy thinking about projects I have to do, finals that are coming up, etc.

I've been having similar forgetful issues because my last week has been full of spontaneous work and stress. Currently going a dry spell because of it too so RRCs are easy to forget amongst everything. Thinking about buying a bracelet or something then doing RRCs and such every time I feel it, as per Sageous' suggestion.

Originally Posted by RareCola

I've been having similar forgetful issues because my last week has been full of spontaneous work and stress. Currently going a dry spell because of it too so RRCs are easy to forget amongst everything. Thinking about buying a bracelet or something then doing RRCs and such every time I feel it, as per Sageous' suggestion.

That sounds like a good idea, I may try that too.

Just read mental prep 2. The lessons are getting more and more interesting, even while i use these "expectations" and "schemas" since long in my dreams For me, this is the easiest way to change scenes or make something appear in a dream.
Althrough i didn't really think about using them intentionally during WILD, so that's a good idea you gave me Sageous

I'm also doing the RRCs less often these days than before :/ But that's just probably because i'm more busy than usual

Starting to remember to do RRCs more often, getting more into the "imagery" sense of RRCs now, rather than worded questions. I find it's easier to remember to do also.

I've been doing the schema thing quite a lot, actually, but I had another question. When looking at something and you know what it is, is it still worth examining it for a few seconds to see how your mind associates the shape with other things? For example, I was looking at a flower today and while I knew it was a flower I was examining how it also looked like a firework or maybe a ferris wheel.

Originally Posted by RareCola

Starting to remember to do RRCs more often, getting more into the "imagery" sense of RRCs now, rather than worded questions. I find it's easier to remember to do also.

I've been doing the schema thing quite a lot, actually, but I had another question. When looking at something and you know what it is, is it still worth examining it for a few seconds to see how your mind associates the shape with other things? For example, I was looking at a flower today and while I knew it was a flower I was examining how it also looked like a firework or maybe a ferris wheel.

Yes, things you already identified are well worth examining, just for the reason you state: If you take a moment and imagine how many other potential things that flower might have been before your mind set on the "flower" schema, you can also imagine how much is involved in correctly establishing even the simplest of schemas. With that in mind, you might now be able to do some extra mental prep for the variations you might encounter should you attempt to build your own dream schemas during WILD...

I have a quick question, can locations be used as schema? I was in school while doing the schema practice, and a textbook caught my eye. I thought about it, and just the fact that it was located in a school (as well as it being rectangular in shape) was enough to give away that it was a textbook.

locations certainly have schemata attached to them, if that textbook appeared in your HI you mind may form a schoolroom scene around it based on your schemata for school.

^^ What he said!

Okay, thanks.

Ok, I've tried doing this schemata thing wrong. Say I'm on a bus and looking out the window and I see a tree. Am I ment to think, Trees, Ground, Dirt, Birds, bark, things that are associated with trees? Or am I ment to look at the leaves and think what else could those leaves be?

I'v been trying the latter but i'm not sure if I should be doing tha or the first optiont?

Originally Posted by Ametam

Ok, I've tried doing this schemata thing wrong. Say I'm on a bus and looking out the window and I see a tree. Am I meant to think, Trees, Ground, Dirt, Birds, bark, things that are associated with trees? Or am I meant to look at the leaves and think what else could those leaves be? I've been trying the latter but I'm not sure if I should be doing that or the first option?

You were right to be trying the latter, and thinking about what else the leaves could be is a fine idea; this is not an association exercise, and you don't need to decide what was with the tree, you need to think about how the image of "tree" became the schema correctly chosen by your mind...that's why I said to spot an object and imagine, just at a glance, all the things that object could be -- for instance earlier I think suggested that RareCola glimpse an oval shape in the corner of his eye, and, without looking too closely at it, imagine what it might be -- maybe a rock, or a football, or a bush, or even a Volkswagon. Then look at the object, notice its context, and imagine all the schemas your mind may have scanned before reaching the conclusion that the object was a sleeping dog. It's not about observing the dog and its environment, it's about understanding all the other things your mind may have cataloged the dog as before it came to the conclusion that that oval shape was a dog.

So, yes, you were correct to imagine what else those leaves could be, but you should also try to work from the beginning -- spot a shape without really looking at it, and think of all the things it could be -- then look at the shape directly, and admire how quickly your mind solves the mystery. This will be more helpful in your WILD, because you can "give" your mind shapes to attach schemas to (remember that Swiss chalet from the session) by associating the shapes directly with the intention and expectation you also should have brought along.

Let me know if that was unclear...

When I do an RRC, I get this subtle sensation within myself, sort of a "lift". It's like I'm suddenly slightly lighter. Does anybody else get this?

Originally Posted by Taffy

I should really do more RRCs, too, I have been forgetting lately (...)

Ditto

Originally Posted by RareCola

Currently going a dry spell because of it too so RRCs are easy to forget amongst everything.

Ditto

Originally Posted by littlezoe

I'm also doing the RRCs less often these days than before :/

And ditto.

Glad to see I'm not the only one . It's so hard to keep during it. I tried having a little thing in my pocket to remind me and it worked for about a week and then I forgot about it again. The best ever reminder is to read the lesson here every week and get back on track. So, Sageous, even though I'm not always posting or asking question, I'm still here reading. And I'm sure I'm not the only one!

Originally Posted by Frobthebuilder

When I do an RRC, I get this subtle sensation within myself, sort of a "lift". It's like I'm suddenly slightly lighter. Does anybody else get this?

I think I know what you mean, but it's so very very subtle

Originally Posted by Strit

). It's so hard to keep during it. I tried having a little thing in my pocket to remind me and it worked for about a week and then I forgot about it again. The best ever reminder is to read the lesson here every week and get back on track. So, Sageous, even though I'm not always posting or asking question, I'm still here reading. And I'm sure I'm not the only one!

Glad to know you're still with us, Strit -- and remember, the best stuff is never easy!

One quick note about the reminder object in your pocket: it is a good idea to change it regularly, just for the reason you stated. We all seem programmed to get used to things, no matter how odd, so it is important to maintain novelty to stave off complacence.

Thanks for hanging in there, everyone...the home stretch is just around the corner!

WILD Session 5: Mantras and Why They Matter is now up.

Enjoy!

Again, I have to say both how much I am enjoying this course and also what a great piece of work it is as a study of the mechanics of WILDing, these threads should be archived and preserved for prosperity. I like the academic and analytical approach of this week's lesson, the course has gone further and deeper into the subject of WILD than I could have hoped/expected.

As for my mantra, I'm going with 'maya'. When I read Robert Waggoner's 'Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self', the phrase maya struck a definite and profound chord with me. For anyone unfamiliar it's a sanskrit term meaning 'illusion', 'creative power' and 'reality creation' and the implication of it in wider Hindu and Buddhist teaching is that we create the phenomenological world around us. A concept, I'm sure you'll agree, that is directly applicable to lucid dreaming.

It's meaningful on a few levels. Reading 'GttIS' had a massive effect on my lucid dreaming practices, the phrase has the 'weight' of possibly thousands of years of philosophical thinking on dreams and reality, and the word has a nice cadence and overall sound to it. Also, using a phrase that tells me to consider my surroundings as an illusion I have created should lead to lucidity.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

As for my mantra, I'm going with 'maya'. When I read Robert Waggoner's 'Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self', the phrase maya struck a definite and profound chord with me. For anyone unfamiliar it's a sanskrit term meaning 'illusion', 'creative power' and 'reality creation' and the implication of it in wider Hindu and Buddhist teaching is that we create the phenomenological world around us. A concept, I'm sure you'll agree, that is directly applicable to lucid dreaming.

It's meaningful on a few levels. Reading 'GttIS' had a massive effect on my lucid dreaming practices, the phrase has the 'weight' of possibly thousands of years of philosophical thinking on dreams and reality, and the word has a nice cadence and overall sound to it. Also, using a phrase that tells me to consider my surroundings as an illusion I have created should lead to lucidity.

So you've chosen to accept a mantra as provided you by a guru...

That's fine in your case, Chtarlhie, because from what I've read in your many posts is that you are heavily involved in this stuff, and that the word "maya" already has deep meaning to you, so its repetition will likely help you.

One caveat for you, though: maya, thanks to its age, multiple meanings, and level of importance in the Hindu and Buddhist traditions, carries quite a bit of mythological baggage that, ironically, could interfere with your WILD dives. In a sense, you run the risk of attaching "someone else's" meaning to your dream, and not your own, or, worse, its meaning will eclipse the importance of your own self-awareness in the dream, and lucidity might be sacrificed for a (albeit likely excellent) maya-based non-lucid...I don't believe this will happen to you, but the possibility is there...try to remember that as you recite maya during your WILD.

Another small warning for the rest of you: Though Ctharlhie likely chose his mantra well because his life is focused in the direction of a mantra like "maya," keep in mind that it is still an off-the-shelf mantra provided by a guru. If no meaning other than "this word is important because important people said it" can be attached to it. Be very careful about using someone else's mantra instead of choosing one of your own, because you might not get what you need out of it. In the end your mantra should be a reflection of you, your intentions, and, yes, your dreams; don't allow it to be a reflection of someone else, not matter how awesome that someone else might be...

Another great session! Now to actually find a mantra unique and meaningful to myself. I'm terrible with these kind of things because I tend to end up being influenced by things I've previously read and such. I'll take some meditation time and try and come up with something tonight though.

I gotta say, I'm really liking this class. Thanks for that.

Ha, I thought of a good mantra. "I see the light." It is a little symbolic, but not too much. "Light" in this case has two meanings. Either "dream", or something a little more encompassing, "success".

I can't help but be distracted by the mantra while i WILD. It is just too much the main focus of my mind, and if I focus on it too much, then after a while I forget to keep repeating it. How do I keep it going without focusing on it?

also, on scale of 1-10, how symbolic does it need to be?

thanks