Thread: WILD According to Sageous Q & A

Sometimes I just don't wake up during the night. It's random when it happens. I will WBTB, but I want to DEILD too.
Is there any way to wake up naturally, possibly before a WBTB? I know water works, but for me it wakes me up in the later stages of sleep, usually 5 or so hours after I first go to bed.

Holy shit holy shit I think I found my technique holy shit sageous u are the man.

So, I awoke about four times last night. On one of them I fully remembered to stay still and I visualized the dream I was to enter, and what do ya know? First, I enter sleep paralysis for the first time On purpose, which felt cool, and I had two seconds of my first DIELD. The only thing that woke my up was my brother decided to fall down the stairs and break his upper arm. Wtfwtfwtf

The transition to SP was like nothing I have ever felt before. It felt like my whole body was spinning right into my head and the vibrations were sweet. Crazy stuff. I think if I can mastering this, I will be able to have a lucid or more every night. God damn I'm happy.

If I get good at DEILD, will it help me with WILD?

Thank you so fucking much you are my favorite person on the forum and sorry for the extreme flattery.

Originally Posted by Sydney

Sometimes I just don't wake up during the night. It's random when it happens. I will WBTB, but I want to DEILD too.
Is there any way to wake up naturally, possibly before a WBTB? I know water works, but for me it wakes me up in the later stages of sleep, usually 5 or so hours after I first go to bed.

What work for me is two things. I think you'll find one more appealing...

1. Sleep uncomfortably or in an unfamiliar place.

2. Genuinely expect that you WILL wake up because you always do.

I hope one of the works for you.

Conrgats ThAtaInTmE; nice work!

Originally Posted by ThAtaInTmE

If I get good at DEILD, will it help me with WILD?

If you get good at DEILD, you are good at WILD, because DEILD is just another form of WILD. That said, you might still have some trouble with classic, LDHSW WILD, because that involves more effort in getting to sleep without losing awareness ... but if you gain the self-awareness and attitude necessary to consistently DEILD, I'm guessing that your WILD attempts will likely go more smoothly.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by Sydney

Sometimes I just don't wake up during the night. It's random when it happens. I will WBTB, but I want to DEILD too.
Is there any way to wake up naturally, possibly before a WBTB? I know water works, but for me it wakes me up in the later stages of sleep, usually 5 or so hours after I first go to bed.

Though ThAtaInTmE offeers a couple of decent suggestions, let me offer another one: don't try to wake up during the night (or, rather, notice that you woke up, because everybody wakes up several times during the night, but doesn't realize it). That's right; just sleep those five hours, and do your dream work, WBTB, WILD, and DEILD, after that.

Why? A few reasons:

First, because the earlier hours of sleep aren't the best for doing WILD's anyway, given the spacing of REM cycles and whatnot.

Next, if you get that five hours of "uninterrupted" sleep, then you'll be more rested in general and maybe be in a better mood to attempt your WILD, and that's important.

Finally, and most importantly, I've found that DEILD works best after a WILD attempt -- even if the WILD attempt failed. This is because you've already put all the pieces in place, (self-awareness, intent, expectation, etc), and all that stuff will still be with you when you start to emerge from the dream that followed your WILD attempt, be it lucid or not. Mix that readiness with the closeness of REM cycles at that point, and you'll have a much better chance of doing a DEILD very late in your night's/morning's sleep than you would if you woke up earlier in the night.

I hope that made sense, and, now that I think about it, that I understood your question; let me know if I need to clarify...

Originally Posted by Sageous

I hope that made sense, and, now that I think about it, that I understood your question; let me know if I need to clarify...

No, that's perfect. Thank you!

PDF of WILD According to Sageous is available.

I don't know if any of you might be interested, but Xanous has made a PDF of the entire course, and is willing to share if asked. So, if you want the course in PDF, just PM him, and he'll tell you how to get it.

Originally Posted by Sageous

PDF of WILD According to Sageous is available.

I don't know if any of you might be interested, but Xanous has made a PDF of the entire course, and is willing to share if asked. So, if you want the course in PDF, just PM him, and he'll tell you how to get it.

AWESOME! Totally getting it.

So, I am still going through a lot of the Q&A stuff. I am trying to get clarification on this and it helped to see others peoples questions but I have been wanting to ask in my own way. I am thinking a lot about RRCs and self-awareness. I dont seem to have trouble remembering I just don't know if I am doing it right. Or if I really get it. Or if I am over thinking.

What I usually do is, first of all just remember self and notice my surroundings. I tend to realize at that moment that my mind was a million miles away. When I come to myself it feels almost exactly like becoming lucid and trying to hold on to it. Then from there I think about how my presence and every little action and breath alters events and my environment. I do always think local. Then I ask myself where was I, what am I going to do next, and why. I try to keep it simple and not use a lot of internal dialog. Mostly pictures in my mind. It feels as if the intention is to practice becoming lucid.

I don't know if I explained myself well enough but do I have it right?

^^ You got it right, Xanous, no doubt!

Planning to read this entire sub-forum again when I get home. Thanks again for all your hard work, Sageous!

Originally Posted by fOrceez

Planning to read this entire sub-forum again when I get home. Thanks again for all your hard work, Sageous!

I should probably do this, need to remind myself of all the amazing information. I want to have a successful WILD already!

On self-awareness. I am getting to the point that when I go the RRC I get straight into it like its a state of mind, or a thought, or an emotion. It is the same feeling as when I suddenly become lucid and my mind opens up to the dream. I feel like I can sometimes turn it on like a switch. So, I try to keep that switch on as long as possible. I challenge myself to go about my daily activities with my self-awareness tucked in my mind but allow my normal thoughts to proceed like usual. I am not sure I am explaining myself correctly. But anyway, is this a good idea? Or should it just be a few seconds and then let it go for awhile? I would think that being able to hold it would be helpful in a WILD as your mind wonders into HI and then a dream. Or do I have this wrong? In any event, I must be doing something right because my lucidity rate has never been this frequent in the past.

Originally Posted by Xanous

On self-awareness. I am getting to the point that when I go the RRC I get straight into it like its a state of mind, or a thought, or an emotion. It is the same feeling as when I suddenly become lucid and my mind opens up to the dream. I feel like I can sometimes turn it on like a switch. So, I try to keep that switch on as long as possible. I challenge myself to go about my daily activities with my self-awareness tucked in my mind but allow my normal thoughts to proceed like usual. I am not sure I am explaining myself correctly. But anyway, is this a good idea? Or should it just be a few seconds and then let it go for awhile? I would think that being able to hold it would be helpful in a WILD as your mind wonders into HI and then a dream. Or do I have this wrong? In any event, I must be doing something right because my lucidity rate has never been this frequent in the past.

I think this is a good idea, if I understood you right. Indeed, it's pretty special, if you ask me! I also think, or might even know, that the ultimate goal of a practice like RRC (and self-awareness, and dream yoga, for that matter) is to develop self-awareness until it becomes second nature, and is switched "on" to some degree all the time.

So yeah, if you can maintain a level of true self-awareness -- even one of a partial variety -- there's no harm in leaving it switched on all the time. The main reason I kept the RRC brief was because this is a very difficult condition to nurture, and doing so wasn't necessary for successful WILD.

But it definitely helps! I can certainly understand why your LD rate has improved, because in the end they are nothing more than self-awareness!

Let me know if I misunderstood. Otherwise: kudos to you indeed!

Originally Posted by Sageous

I think this is a good idea, if I understood you right. Indeed, it's pretty special, if you ask me! I also think, or might even know, that the ultimate goal of a practice like RRC (and self-awareness, and dream yoga, for that matter) is to develop self-awareness until it becomes second nature, and is switched "on" to some degree all the time.

So yeah, if you can maintain a level of true self-awareness -- even one of a partial variety -- there's no harm in leaving it switched on all the time. The main reason I kept the RRC brief was because this is a very difficult condition to nurture, and doing so wasn't necessary for successful WILD.

But it definitely helps! I can certainly understand why your LD rate has improved, because in the end they are nothing more than self-awareness!

Let me know if I misunderstood. Otherwise: kudos to you indeed!

Yes that answers my question very well. Thanks. Ill keep doing what I'm doing. This weekend I will have my first true WILD!

So I've been reading Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming lately and came to the portion about WILDs and wanted to get your opinion on the methods in the book. I've found ETWoLD to be pretty solid for technique advice and such thus far, but I never saw you mention any of this style in your methods.

I wrote out one of the techniques in the spoiler:

Spoiler for Technique:

WHITE DOT TECHNIQUE
1. Before bed
A. Firmly resolve to recognize when you are dreaming.
B. Visualize in your throat (Point 2 in the 61-point relaxation exercise) the syllable ah, red in color and vividly radiant.
C. Mentally concentrate on the radiance of the ah. Imagine that the radiance illuminates and makes visible all things of the world showing them to be essentially unreal and of the nature of a dream.
2. At dawn
A. Practice pot-shaped breathing seven times
B. Resolve eleven times to comprehend the nature of the dream state.
C. Concentrate your mind upon a dot, colored bony white, situated between your eyebrows (Point 1 in the 61-point relaxation exercise).
D. Continue to focus on the dot until you find that you are dreaming.

I think he did touch on it briefly. A few references at least. I think he left that stuff up to us. Just sayn'.

^^ Yup, RareCola, what Xanous said!

The techniques that LaBerge mentions are fine, I'm sure, and if you want to use them, go for it. As I said in the course, it really doesn't matter how you choose to Lie Down, Hold Still, & Wait as long as you pick a method that allows you to maintain your self-awareness throughout the dive.

And again, the techniques LaBerge highlights are certainly good ones, most of them tried-and-true for a very long time.

so sageous why do you recommend attempting WILD's on your back?

Originally Posted by xpin2winx

so sageous why do you recommend attempting WILD's on your back?

Primarily from experience -- the vast majority of my successful WILD's occurred while on my back, with on my right side coming in a distant second. Aside from that anecdotal evidence (which ought to be enough, I think, given the overall subjective nature of my course), I believe the sleep yoga folks recommend sleeping on your back if possible, and I've also noticed most reports I've gotten from other accomplished LD'ers over the years included sleeping on their back.

So my suggestion may be based on anecdotal evidence, but who knows? There may be some consciousness-related brain chemistry that occurs only when you sleep on your back. Whatever it might be, going to sleep on your back seems to work best.

I've been thinking... should I try to pick a method or tutorial? Or is strong self-awareness, visualization, and timing all I need to focus on? I have been failing my WILD's by falling asleep but I will often wake from a dream and remember to hold still and just think DEILD and I will hit straight to SP. Then its just relaxing, ignoring the noise, visualizing and keeping false awakenings in mind. (FAs fool me almost every time!) It really shouldn't be complicated should it? I am just trying to simplify somethings here.

And how is DEILD any different than WILD as far as the point where you enter the dream? It seems like weather you WILD or DEILD you still come to the same point where you enter a dream while conscious. Your still doing the same thing just in slightly different ways. Right? If the point of transition is the same then, it helps that I know exactly what that feels like from my DEILDs.

Xanous:

At the risk of breaking some DVA instructor parameter:

If your self-awareness is strong, and your memory in great shape, you need never pick a method or tutorial!

If you read them carefully, you'll find that these tutorials are bandages -- patchworks, if you will -- attempts to create a dreaming "mood" that might gloss over or accidentally manufacture the self-awareness and memory which should already have been in place to induce a LD. Though I did my best to counter this "easy out," even my class offers up "techniques" over pure self-awareness.

Plus:

There is no complication ... I was doing this stuff decades before any of the techniques were invented, and yet still I managed to do it -- simply by wanting to do so. In the end, all you do is “lie down, hold still, and wait (LDHSW).” No more, no less -- if your self-awareness and memory are set, this process will work every time. It is that simple.

Finally:

Yes, DEILD is the same as WILD. Indeed, DEILD is just a form of WILD, with its only distinctions from classic WILD being that you do it when you are emerging from a dream and thus avoid most of the noise, falling back to sleep is easier, and you may already have a dream formed for your conscious return to the dreaming. Strong distinctions, perhaps, but still only distinctions: DEILD is still WILD.

Bottom line, Xanous: master the fundamentals, and the rest is gravy!

Clarification! That helps. I over-think things too much. I'll focus on the fundamentals and do it the way I do it. And now I've made the DEILD WILD connection I know what to expect when I get my first true WILD.

Thanks Sageous! Just you explaining or.... err....re-explaining helps me keep it all straight.

Originally Posted by Xanous

Clarification! That helps. I over-think things too much. I'll focus on the fundamentals and do it the way I do it. And now I've made the DEILD WILD connection I know what to expect when I get my first true WILD.

Thanks Sageous! Just you explaining or.... err....re-explaining helps me keep it all straight.

I've been making similar realisations lately. I think the over-thinking just makes for bad schemas, and simply thinking that WILDs are some immensely confusing, hard-to-achieve feat makes it not possible to do them.