Thread: What happened? Post Your WILD Attempts, Good or Bad, Here

I had my first DEILD!

I was inside the LD, then I felt this transition to the physical body, but I laid still and imagined the dream scene I was just in. Seconds later, it formed then I started moving to check if I'm 'in it', and I was.

It was actually very easy and smooth!

^^ That's good news, Louai, congrats! Isn't it nice that when DEILD's work properly, they are almost invariably easy and smooth?

... I look forward to the report of your second DEILD!

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ That's good news, Louai, congrats! Isn't it nice that when DEILD's work properly, they are almost invariably easy and smooth?

... I look forward to the report of your second DEILD!

Thank you!

Yes, all of my other DEILD attempts didn't work because I wasn't calm enough when the transition to waking happens. I was calmer this time and much more focused in the DEILD attempt than before. I thank my day time work to keep calm in LDs for that!

This was also my 3rd and 4rth LDs of the same night! After the first one happened, I had a much easier time remembering my intention during the rest, especially that I was thinking about the LD I just had inside a dream- so it chained DILDs like that lol.

I think DEILDs are gonna be a reliable tool for me because I'm managing to keep calm when feeling the transition, or in other words, and I don't know if it's just me, my transitions are slow and very easy to detect!

Will surely post my next DEILD success!

Well this is what happened, none were "attempts" per se:

I had 3 LDs last night, assisted by galantamine and Alpha-GPC.

At 4am I took the supplements, along with a banana and a piece of rye bread for "dreaming fuel" (and to help get the 300mg alpha-gpc capsules down, those things are horse pills!)

I spent the next 4 hours or so in a brain-busting battle to fall back asleep.

The HI (only blobby shapes and colors) were bursting in front of my eyes like fireworks most the entire time -- if only I could get to sleep I knew those would be awesome dreams.

My only goal was to get to sleep unconsciously and DILD.

After about 4 hours (having been in bed for 8 hours) awake, both my hips were getting sore and distracting me (I'm a side sleeper), so I decided to try my back (I don't think I've fallen asleep on my back in years, but I was desperate not to have a wasted supplement night)

At one point I think I had a near-WILD. I thought I saw before me a small portion of a concrete floor (I interpreted this to be the floor of a garage), it became a bit clearer, but stayed as within a black frame, which did not extend to fill my vision. I thought about rubbing my hands but it didn't seem that I had any dream hands yet, this vision of the concrete patch of floor stayed about 10 seconds and then faded away. I tried to relax and let it form but it just didn't turn into a dream.

Later I found myself seated in a room and "felt" the dream feeling, I guess that was a start-of-dream DILD, I later flew through a stunningly beautiful dream landscape.

I "woke up from" (transitioned out of) that DILD and was lying in bed on my back in darkness. I was thinking lightly of the awesome scene that ended that DILD, then all of a sudden:

It felt like the foot of my bed was suddenly heaved 5 feet in the air, leaving the bed at a 45 or 60 degree angle with my head pointing down, and that I quickly shot out of my bed head-first on to a steep wide slide: head first (pointing down), on my back, going fast down this slide with no visuals. I was fully conscious and thought this was great fun and wondered when the dream was going to begin.

After maybe 10-15 seconds of this I wondered if this was the dream, or merely a transition and I had to work to make a dream begin. I thought about turning over to my stomach, then I imagined I was in a dark room at the end of the slide, and cut my way out, and began the dream (I lost lucidity or forgot the lucidity, and was non-lucid at the finish of that dream).

I found myself awake back in bed again on my back, and again in just a few seconds I experienced the SAME transition all over again: foot of bed raised up, I flew out headfirst on my back down the dark tunnel. I do not recall if I simply fell out of the tunnel into the dream or if I willed it, but I found myself in a courtyard and continued lucidly for a minute or so before waking and worked on recalling all 3 LDs and the non-lucid parts.

As best as I can figure the two tunnel experiences were both DEILDs. I have never experienced anything like that and greatly look forward to it happening again as it was a real hoot.

I'm wondering if the tunnel experience was a dream or just a transition (or "noise?"). It's conceivable they were FAs instead of DEILDs and it was all a single long dreaming sequence into and out of lucidity, but looking back it seems most like DEILDs.

edit: I remembered: during one of the trips down the slide I very carefully lifted my dream hand to my dream nose and did a nose pinch, both arm and nose felt fairly insubstantial, not solid like in "full dream" -- proof that the tunnel wasn't just "noise?"

Interested in any thoughts/comments about these experiences.

And I'm wondering if it's possible to experience all this craziness without galantamine+choline. Maybe it just takes being awake for 4 hours starting in the middle of the night?

^^ Zounds!

Here are a couple of thoughts/comments:

Originally Posted by FryingMan

I had 3 LDs last night, assisted by galantamine and Alpha-GPC.

At 4am I took the supplements, along with a banana and a piece of rye bread for "dreaming fuel" (and to help get the 300mg alpha-gpc capsules down, those things are horse pills!),,,I spent the next 4 hours or so in a brain-busting battle to fall back asleep.

G-mine and that Alpha-GPC mix, plus a banana? Damn. I'm astonished that you managed to sleep at all, ever! Kudos, though, for sticking it out. Do you take any melatonin the night before your attempts? If not, you ought to consider it.

Here's another thought: I don't know about the Alpha-GPC, but G-mine tends to wear off (for me at least, and I have a glacially slow metabolism) after about 4 hours. There is an excellent chance, I think, that all this activity was yours alone, and not influenced by the supplements.

The HI (only blobby shapes and colors) were bursting in front of my eyes like fireworks most the entire time -- if only I could get to sleep I knew those would be awesome dreams.

Probably not. I wouldn't be surprised if that HI represented what was keeping you awake -- namely acetylcholine-drenched nerve activity, with a potassium/sugar kicker from that banana.

My only goal was to get to sleep unconsciously and DILD.

Another thought: If DILD is your goal, just doing MILD at night and skipping the supplements might be enough... maybe a WBTB at most. DILD is by definition sleep-oriented, and threatening that sleep with energizing supplements is not always the best idea. Besides, since DILD's so often follow failed WILD's, why not go for the WILD anyway?

After about 4 hours (having been in bed for 8 hours) awake, both my hips were getting sore and distracting me (I'm a side sleeper), so I decided to try my back (I don't think I've fallen asleep on my back in years, but I was desperate not to have a wasted supplement night)

Could you have discovered your ideal LD sleep position? Hmm... judging from what follows, I'd say yes indeedy.

At one point I think I had a near-WILD. I thought I saw before me a small portion of a concrete floor (I interpreted this to be the floor of a garage), it became a bit clearer, but stayed as within a black frame, which did not extend to fill my vision. I thought about rubbing my hands but it didn't seem that I had any dream hands yet, this vision of the concrete patch of floor stayed about 10 seconds and then faded away. I tried to relax and let it form but it just didn't turn into a dream.

Yep, probably a WILD.

If you have an inkling to rub your hands, do it; don't think about it -- just do it. After all, the discovery that you lack dream hands might serve to amplify your lucidity and generate a bit more of a dream schema (because you would be adding a DC "you" to the picture).

That floor image was interesting -- I've had similar things happen during late-morning/end-of-session LD's. It could be that your dreaming mind just had nothing for you at the moment and was presenting, literally, a blank slate. If you get something like this again -- and you will, try literally standing on that floor, or maybe adding an object to it; and try not to think of it as a small black-framed image and nothing else, because it will fade just as quickly as it did this time. Your dreaming mind may have just needed a little substance, a little nudge (especially after being fried on supplements for the previous 4 hours ).

Later I found myself seated in a room and "felt" the dream feeling, I guess that was a start-of-dream DILD, I later flew through a stunningly beautiful dream landscape.

Cool!

I "woke up from" (transitioned out of) that DILD and was lying in bed on my back in darkness. I was thinking lightly of the awesome scene that ended that DILD, then all of a sudden:

It felt like the foot of my bed was suddenly heaved 5 feet in the air, leaving the bed at a 45 or 60 degree angle with my head pointing down, and that I quickly shot out of my bed head-first on to a steep wide slide: head first (pointing down), on my back, going fast down this slide with no visuals. I was fully conscious and thought this was great fun and wondered when the dream was going to begin.

After maybe 10-15 seconds of this I wondered if this was the dream, or merely a transition and I had to work to make a dream begin. I thought about turning over to my stomach, then I imagined I was in a dark room at the end of the slide, and cut my way out, and began the dream (I lost lucidity or forgot the lucidity, and was non-lucid at the finish of that dream).

Cooler! And an excellent response, I think.

I found myself awake back in bed again on my back, and again in just a few seconds I experienced the SAME transition all over again: foot of bed raised up, I flew out headfirst on my back down the dark tunnel. I do not recall if I simply fell out of the tunnel into the dream or if I willed it, but I found myself in a courtyard and continued lucidly for a minute or so before waking and worked on recalling all 3 LDs and the non-lucid parts.

Also cool!

As best as I can figure the two tunnel experiences were both DEILDs. I have never experienced anything like that and greatly look forward to it happening again as it was a real hoot.

I'm wondering if the tunnel experience was a dream or just a transition (or "noise?"). It's conceivable they were FAs instead of DEILDs and it was all a single long dreaming sequence into and out of lucidity, but looking back it seems most like DEILDs.

I don't think these were DEILD's, because DEILD's tend to be more intentional events. In a sense, you must consciously recognize that you are waking up, and that you are going to go right back "in" to another LD. To have it happen to you as it did does imply a FA, and your quick lucid response shows how well you managed to immediately convert it to a lucid moment ... nice work, and a real sign that your head is truly in the right place.

edit: I remembered: during one of the trips down the slide I very carefully lifted my dream hand to my dream nose and did a nose pinch, both arm and nose felt fairly insubstantial, not solid like in "full dream" -- proof that the tunnel wasn't just "noise?"

Agreed.

And I'm wondering if it's possible to experience all this craziness without galantamine+choline.

It absolutely is... and as I mentioned earlier, this experience be living proof of that.

Thanks for sharing, FryingMan, and it's a pleasure to see a couple of good rushes come your way...

^^ Thanks for you thoughts! It was a real trip, let me tell you, especially the bed-ejection-slide sequences. Some followups:

Yes I think FA is probably the best explanation as I wasn't "trying" to continue the dream, there was no drifting off -- I was fully "awake" -- and I was really surprised when my bed heaved up like that suddenly.

I took 3mg melatonin at bedtime, hoping to remain drowsy at the 4-hour mark, like I typically do when I plan to take galantamine, and take the G no later than 4 hours after bedtime, because of the long back to sleep scenarios. I could try taking more melatonin at bedtime, or try taking a touch more melatonin or some L-theanine with the G to promote the sleep. I saw in Yuschak that G has about a 7-hour decay curve for main efficacy, but yes the 1-4 hour mark is the peak. I take Alpha-GPC because Yuschak shows that it has a 3-hour to peak plasma curve, which matches my long back to sleeps.

Very interesting about sleeping on the back -- I used to always sleep on my back until about 10-15 years ago, but I apparently snore easily on my back so I stopped....but I will experiment more with it now! It did seem to promote the slide scenario somehow, perhaps due to the symmetric inner-ear sensations?

On the floor section WILD, I wasn't thinking about the frame during the experience, that is just my afterwards reflection of the imagery I recalled. I will remember to try adding objects and "stepping in" and getting those non-existant hands rubbing.

It would be cool if these dreams I have about 4-7 hours after taking G are "all me" but with super strong expectation and super long BTB times...I suspect they may be still on "fumes" at least of the G since the Yuschak graphs indicate it still has a presence at the 7-hour mark... But this line of thinking is what caused me to start that thread earlier this year, "supplements: is it all just WBTB in the end?" (where everybody pretty much disagreed with me).

Originally Posted by FryingMan

Very interesting about sleeping on the back -- I used to always sleep on my back until about 10-15 years ago, but I apparently snore easily on my back so I stopped....but I will experiment more with it now! It did seem to promote the slide scenario somehow, perhaps due to the symmetric inner-ear sensations?

I have the same problem with snoring... a simple solution I've found is simply sleeping with my head turned to one side (the right). I'm not sure that slide sensation corresponded to sleeping on your back; it could have just been a coincidence. Things like that slide tend to occur well inside your head, and really don't care much about your body's orientation. However, that doesn't mean there wasn't some dream engine, well inside your head, that decided that since your body was oriented differently there needed to be a different reaction.

It would be cool if these dreams I have about 4-7 hours after taking G are "all me" but with super strong expectation and super long BTB times...I suspect they may be still on "fumes" at least of the G since the Yuschak graphs indicate it still has a presence at the 7-hour mark... But this line of thinking is what caused me to start that thread earlier this year, "supplements: is it all just WBTB in the end?" (where everybody pretty much disagreed with me).

I missed that thread, and can't find it in your profile; could you provide a link? It might not be so much all WBTB, especially in this case (WBTB's usefulness fades after 90 minutes or so), as much as it is your own interest, mindset, and will. It is an interesting idea, though, and one well worth thinking about... or not, if you've convinced yourself the supplements are working -- it's hard to argue against a successful placebo effect!

^^ I wish I could come up with a placebo effect where I get awesome dreams AND fall back to sleep immediately . I've actually thought recently of preparing some actual placebo capsules and choosing randomly from either the real or the placebo bag, and see what happens.

Here's the link to the thread: http://www.dreamviews.com/lucid-aids...-wbtb-end.html

Originally Posted by FryingMan

^^ I wish I could come up with a placebo effect where I get awesome dreams AND fall back to sleep immediately . I've actually thought recently of preparing some actual placebo capsules and choosing randomly from either the real or the placebo bag, and see what happens.

That is not a terrible idea. If you try it, be sure to post and let us know how it went... oh, and be sure to remember to expect the pills to work, rather than wonder if you picked the wrong one!

I was attempting a WILD, and had laying there for about 20 mins. And then my mom was letting my dog out (I could hear her still) and she opened the back door which always squeaks when you open it but this time, it started squeaking and the pitch got higher and higher until it was a loud, painful screeching. I bolted up sweaty and scared, cursing my luck.

^^ Welcome, Astramaniac, and thanks for sharing!

Can I suggest that you try a little white noise to accompany your WILD dive? A running fan usually works fine, and they do sell white noise machines as well, but anything that makes a steady, tolerable hum at a good volume will work. That way you might be able to cancel out intrusive sounds like that squeaky door before they turn into something altogether different that disrupts your WILD.

I live beside a steep hill and must deal with heavy trucks and their incredibly loud engine breaks during my WILD attempts, and I've found white noise (a machine plus a fan, in my case) does a good job keeping those trucks from waking me or contributing negatively to my dream imagery.

Just a thought... good luck!

Thanks for answering! I have a ceiling fan which I always sleep with which makes some noise but I will see what I can do about it!

@Astramaniac: If you have a smart phone, there are a number of free white noise apps. Some also feature noise with other spectral profiles - I personally find it easier to sleep with red/brown noise.
Another option that you might like to explore is an idea suggested by sivason here: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...help-wild.html

@Sageous: I have another couple of DEILD attempts to share. These were both from the same night, and I have another one from last night that I'm yet to transfer to my DJ, I'll post it when I do.

Full DJ entry

This first one was a bit unusual. I transitioned out of a semi-lucid dream into a black void, and found CanisLucidus there, who hadn't featured in the previous dream. I haven't decided how I feel about how this went. Perhaps I paid too much attention to the content during the transition, but it did seem to be necessary at the time. What do you think? (This relates to my schizophrenia which I think you're somewhat aware of, but I'm happy to answer any questions if you have them.)

Spoiler for First dream:

I felt myself crossing over into the void, almost at the point of waking up. I had no vision, but I could still feel Eee's hands holding mine.
I felt another presence, too - CanisLucidus was there! He was speaking to me and trying to convince me that I needed to wake up.
I could tell that I had entered an altered state and a psychotic episode might be about to begin. Canis seemed to know that sleeping during episodes can lead to very long and disturbing nightmares, and he was trying to save me from getting trapped in one.
I told Canis that I wanted to stay in the dream. I kept saying, "Trust me," but Canis continued to urge me to wake up.
I told him a final time, "Trust me, I've got this!"
He seemed to accept that I was not going to heed his warning.
I did slip from the dream a few times during this, and felt myself in bed, but I returned to the black void with Canis each time.
I assured him that I was still up for dreaming when I returned.
He asked me, "Are you sure?"
I woke up again and this time I paid attention to my mental state in waking life. I was experiencing really strong depersonalisation, something that usually happens after psychotic episodes, but I thought it might be a precursor this time, so decided to wake myself up properly and spend time doing some calming meditation. I felt like it was safe to go back to sleep in that state, and I felt better prepared now, in case any psychotic nightmares should arise.

This attempt came after a lucid dream. I lost lucidity before successfully re-entering, but I successfully incubated an image of the previous scene.
I sometimes lack a body at the beginning of lucid dreams, but this is the first time it's happened this strongly during a DEILD attempt. Any suggestions for that? And any suggestions for keeping my focus so I don't lose lucidity? The cave where I ended up in the non-lucid dream that followed was the place that I was incubating with the wells from the previous LD.

Spoiler for Second dream:

I started fading from the dream and felt myself in bed, lying on my side. I tried to remain still so I could re-enter the dream.
I was just focusing on staying relaxed to start with, but then I heard Canis' voice reminding me to visualise the scene:
"We're going to do the toilet task, think about the running water in those wells flushing us down!"
I visualised the wells from the previous dream, and the scene appeared as though I was looking down on it from a bird's eye perspective. The picture was very clear, but the edges were faded into black, like a vignetting effect.
I heard water gushing really loudly, as though I was inside the well.
I could feel myself holding Canis' hand, but I didn't have a body in the scene yet.
The well had morphed almost completely into a large stone toilet. I tried to imagine the feeling of being flushed down the toilet with Canis.

I lost lucidity at some point before being flushed. I was now standing somewhere in the cave, telling someone about the previous dream with the video game characters.

Thanks Sageous, I look forward to hearing your thoughts once again!

Originally Posted by ~ Dreamer ~

This first one was a bit unusual. I transitioned out of a semi-lucid dream into a black void, and found CanisLucidus there, who hadn't featured in the previous dream. I haven't decided how I feel about how this went. Perhaps I paid too much attention to the content during the transition, but it did seem to be necessary at the time. What do you think? (This relates to my schizophrenia which I think you're somewhat aware of, but I'm happy to answer any questions if you have them.)

It sounds to me like you slipped into a bit of NREM (the void), and I think that your sensing Eee's hand was actually a sign that the DEILD was going just fine. If Canis hadn't interrupted, you might have found yourself returning to your moment with Eee. But he did turn up. Obviously I can't say why he did, but it did seem that you had a DC trying to prevent an episode that "he" assumed was immanent. This is a curious thing, because it implies that your unconscious wasn't fully aware that you were perfectly safe and moving under your own conscious management... this, for me at least, seems to illustrate my opinion that LD'ing is a very unnatural act (we're simply not supposed to be awake when we're asleep): in a sense, your dreaming mind came to your defense with a familiar DC warning against what was coming... even though nothing bad was actually going to happen. Curious!

So, in short, you were paying attention to your last dream, as you should have been doing, and your unconscious misinterpreted your situation and sent in a DC to successfully distract you from moving through the NREM. Or not, of course, but this might be something to think about next time you're in that void and a DC appears to protect or warn you.

With that in mind, and this might be difficult (and risky), next time you're there, you might consider allowing that that void is "just" NREM, and not an altered state presaging a psychotic episode. Though that void is literally an altered state, because you are lucid during NREM, it is also a totally normal and safe condition of sleep which you happen to be witnessing. In my experience it's also one of the most peaceful places (or states) I've discovered to date in my LD'ing journeys; if you and your dreaming mind allow it, you might find the void a very pleasant place to stay while awaiting the next dream. Again, I could be wrong, because I clearly am not knowledgeable about your condition, but this might be something to consider.

This attempt came after a lucid dream. I lost lucidity before successfully re-entering, but I successfully incubated an image of the previous scene.
I sometimes lack a body at the beginning of lucid dreams, but this is the first time it's happened this strongly during a DEILD attempt. Any suggestions for that?

Here's an anecdotal note for comparison: When I am experiencing high-end lucidity (fully self-aware with memory intact), I never have a dream body (I don't really know why, but it probably has something to do with knowing that I am dreaming, and a body is irrelevant, almost nuisance, a troubling redundancy in my dream world). The first stages of DEILD are, almost necessarily, moments of high-end lucidity. It could be that you are simply shedding a bit of that strong awareness as you settle into your dream. So what probably happened was that your DEILD went quite well and left you with an extra charge of self-awareness as the dream started up. If that is so, then you might consider using your lack of dream body as a sort of dreamsign, something to help you remember where you are.

And any suggestions for keeping my focus so I don't lose lucidity? The cave where I ended up in the non-lucid dream that followed was the place that I was incubating with the wells from the previous LD.

Aside from using your lack of dream body as a sort of dreamsign, it seems to me you were quite focused in your account, doing all the right things to maintain focus (i.e., remembering your last dream and your current goals, visualizing the new scene). It could be something else that eased your self-awareness, perhaps your overdue dream body or that pesky Canis sticking his nose in your dream. Indeed, if you were actually wondering where your dream body was, that kind of intellectual questioning during a dream is often a solid enough distraction to erase lucidity.

Interesting stuff, Dreamer; thanks for sharing!

Originally Posted by Sageous

It sounds to me like you slipped into a bit of NREM (the void), and I think that your sensing Eee's hand was actually a sign that the DEILD was going just fine. If Canis hadn't interrupted, you might have found yourself returning to your moment with Eee. But he did turn up. Obviously I can't say why he did, but it did seem that you had a DC trying to prevent an episode that "he" assumed was immanent. This is a curious thing, because it implies that your unconscious wasn't fully aware that you were perfectly safe and moving under your own conscious management... this, for me at least, seems to illustrate my opinion that LD'ing is a very unnatural act (we're simply not supposed to be awake when we're asleep): in a sense, your dreaming mind came to your defense with a familiar DC warning against what was coming... even though nothing bad was actually going to happen. Curious!

So, in short, you were paying attention to your last dream, as you should have been doing, and your unconscious misinterpreted your situation and sent in a DC to successfully distract you from moving through the NREM. Or not, of course, but this might be something to think about next time you're in that void and a DC appears to protect or warn you.

With that in mind, and this might be difficult (and risky), next time you're there, you might consider allowing that that void is "just" NREM, and not an altered state presaging a psychotic episode. Though that void is literally an altered state, because you are lucid during NREM, it is also a totally normal and safe condition of sleep which you happen to be witnessing. In my experience it's also one of the most peaceful places (or states) I've discovered to date in my LD'ing journeys; if you and your dreaming mind allow it, you might find the void a very pleasant place to stay while awaiting the next dream. Again, I could be wrong, because I clearly am not knowledgeable about your condition, but this might be something to consider.

Thank you, Sageous. This is how I will try to view the situation if it happens in future.
Psychotic episodes within dreams can be much more intense and longer-lasting than when I'm awake, because my perception of time is altered more than usual and I feel like I'm eternally trapped in a terrifying realm, so it's a scary prospect.
Having said that, I have been focusing on living fearlessly, and not allowing my condition to hold me back from other goals, so I think it will be worth taking the risk to give myself the opportunity to return to a dream. Part of my mental management of these states is focusing on remaining calm and present, so I can do that in 'the void' instead of worrying about any negative experiences that might follow.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Here's an anecdotal note for comparison: When I am experiencing high-end lucidity (fully self-aware with memory intact), I never have a dream body (I don't really know why, but it probably has something to do with knowing that I am dreaming, and a body is irrelevant, almost nuisance, a troubling redundancy in my dream world). The first stages of DEILD are, almost necessarily, moments of high-end lucidity. It could be that you are simply shedding a bit of that strong awareness as you settle into your dream. So what probably happened was that your DEILD went quite well and left you with an extra charge of self-awareness as the dream started up. If that is so, then you might consider using your lack of dream body as a sort of dreamsign, something to help you remember where you are.

That's very interesting! Are you able to move around without a body, or do you prefer to just dwell there peacefully without interacting much with the dream scene?

Here is the next attempt I mentioned. I'm not actually sure if I ever woke up, but I did seem to exit a dream, so I tried to use visualisation in the same way as I've been practising. I was unsuccessful this time.

Spoiler for Dream:

Colour code: Non-lucid / Semi-Lucid / Lucid

Dad and I walked over to the window and looked up at the sky. We saw a meteor coming towards us really fast. We knew there was no escape - we were going to die.
My dad ran away to hide under a table.
I ran into the next room, but I questioned my reality due to the fear in this situation, and did a nose plug RC as I ran.
I breathed through so I knew it was a dream and I didn't have to worry.
The meteor still crashed into the house though, and my field of vision filled with bright light, and various images from the previous scenes flashed before my eyes. Eventually I had no vision at all.
It felt a lot like a DEILD transition, but I'm not sure if I actually woke up.
I didn't want to go back to the apocalypse scene because my emotions felt unstable in that place.
I tried to visualise an indoor scene with a toilet so I could do Advanced Task i - Flush yourself down a toilet, and describe the experience.
I had a clear picture in my head, but a scene wasn't forming yet.
I could feel myself in bed now, and I questioned whether I was still dreaming or if I'd really woken up. I rolled out of bed and did another nose plug RC which confirmed that I was dreaming, but for some reason, I wasn't totally convinced.
I assume my lucidity faded at this point because I only remember non-lucid fragments after that.

Full dream

Sageous, it sounds like you're equating the NREM sleep phase with "the void". Are there multiple "void"s? I believe I perhaps ended up in a lucid NREM ("void"?) dream last night as I fell asleep a little after taking a small bit (4mg Galantamind) of galantamine, fairly early in the night, (3-3.5 hours, awoken via alarm in the middle of a dream) (no extra choline other than what's in Galantamind, 50mg I think at that dosage.

I'm not exactly sure, but I was simply trying to fall asleep, but had fairly active HI (typical in this scenario), and I got a fast body buzz rush (noise), and really thought I had entered a dream but without any visuals. Could that have been NREM?

Also, do you consider it NREM, when during a LD, when visuals are lost to all black or all white ("white void"?), that one has changed into NREM sleep? My impression of this happening is that it's still a REM dream but that the brain has just gotten overloaded or wasn't ready to meet your expected scene (e.g., when teleporting), and just sort of goes into "recovery" for a while. I know a lot of people call that "the void". Same void as you're talking about or different?

thanks.

FM

Dreamer:

Originally Posted by ~ Dreamer ~

That's very interesting! Are you able to move around without a body, or do you prefer to just dwell there peacefully without interacting much with the dream scene?

Yes. Movement is much easier without a dream body, and all the physical-world associations that come with dream bodies (i.e., flying is effortless, and I never run into a problem with my DC body getting stuck, or having difficulty changing walking direction or speed).

That said, when I do want to simply rest peacefully in a dream (preferably after reducing the dream scene to nothing at all, or flying into deep space to be enveloped in a panorama of stars), that too is much easier without a dream body... come to think of it, I'm not sure I ever experienced that moment with a dream body.

Here is the next attempt I mentioned. I'm not actually sure if I ever woke up, but I did seem to exit a dream, so I tried to use visualisation in the same way as I've been practising. I was unsuccessful this time.

It is possible to DEILD without fully waking up; maybe even beneficial -- but you must at least be approaching wakefulness. If you can "turn around" and head back to your dream before the distractions of the waking world encroach, all the better. So yes, that did sound like you did a DEILD, but then wound up in a false awakening of sorts, which wasn't much help this time.... perhaps you were still too asleep to have a successful DEILD, and that sensation you felt was more a reaction to the lost dream-scene and a brief dip into NREM. I wonder if your DEILD feeling triggered that FA, because your dreaming mind wanted to give you what you were expecting regardless of what you were consciously trying to visualize.

FryingMan:

Originally Posted by FryingMan

Sageous, it sounds like you're equating the NREM sleep phase with "the void". Are there multiple "void"s?

Sure. a "void" is simply a description of the experience of zero sensory input (or, in a dreamer's case, zero perceptual reporting). I believe you can conjure a void at the height of REM, just as you can experience some fairly strong imagery at the height of Delta (NREM).

I'm not exactly sure, but I was simply trying to fall asleep, but had fairly active HI (typical in this scenario), and I got a fast body buzz rush (noise), and really thought I had entered a dream but without any visuals. Could that have been NREM?

It could have been NREM, especially if you had this experience when you first went to sleep.

Also, do you consider it NREM, when during a LD, when visuals are lost to all black or all white ("white void"?), that one has changed into NREM sleep?

No. As I just mentioned, you can certainly create -- or stumble into -- a void during REM. I've found that shifts to delta during a LD are fairly obvious (usually there is a moment of near-wakefulness, and the transition is very slow; but that could be me), and once in delta you know you are no longer in a "normal," REM, dream.

My impression of this happening is that it's still a REM dream but that the brain has just gotten overloaded or wasn't ready to meet your expected scene (e.g., when teleporting), and just sort of goes into "recovery" for a while. I know a lot of people call that "the void". Same void as you're talking about or different?

It can be the same void, sure. In that case. As I said above, a void is simply a lack of input, or a perceived lack of input. That lack could certainly be the result of a crash of your dream server, or a sign that it is rebooting to adjust to your sudden changes of desire (teleporting). Voids can occur for many reasons, including as dreaming-mind created schemata.

I guess I see "void" as more descriptor than place or condition... There is nothing special or deep about a void, if it occurs while you are doing nothing special or deep. If that makes any sense

Well I think I had at long last my first honest-to-goodness WILD:

00:00 Friday 2014-09-19 LD #65 (WILD!), lightsabers, looking for Sensei, Mexican road trip, music - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I was relaxing, drifting, snoozing in bed in late morning, trying a few different positions, not sure if I should just get up, but decide to try for one more sleep, with the intention to get a lucid dream. I start thinking about day-things and decide no, this won't do at all, have to shut that down right away, so I try a backwards count from 20 to one with long relaxing exhales to clear my head. The recent post on DV from the fellow who went on vacation and after a long time of not LDing had a big sequence of LDs from "not trying, but intending to lucid dream, and just fall asleep" with that mindset. I've been trying too hard recently and it's been keeping me awake. So I tried cultivating that mindset: I intend to lucid dream, but I'm not going to "try to", I'm just going to drift off to sleep with this (gentle, quiet) idea that I want to lucid dream.

Then next thing I know I'm looking at an image (again of looking at a piece of floor, like that garage dream I had a few weeks back) of a floormat on the ground, and I know it's a dream image, it's solid, and I think I must "sink into it" so I stay relaxed and I feel like I've fully entered. I want to stand up and move but I feel it's not time yet, something's preventing me, I'm cautious to take it slow. So I rub my hands a bit and wait a few more moments and then I stand up, walk, and think of goals and get on with the dream.

I feel that there was no lapse of awareness...but the awareness was pretty faint by that time.

I think I got a taste of the balance required...and yeah it's on the razor's edge. Intending without "trying too hard". And I think I get Sageous's strong emphasis on intending to WILD before your attempt, the intention is what let's you know exactly what's going on when the dream starts, at least I got that impression. I wasn't surprised or confused, it's more like, "Ah, here we go, it's happening now" and I focused on calmly entering the dream.

Anyway, very exciting! It only took a year and a month....

^^ That's great news, FryingMan!

Good work staying calm and (literally) keeping your wits about you (and at bay) during the transition. Also, yes, desire/intention does have its own power; excellent job quietly tapping it. I still like that floor image, BTW; I think it might become a useful tool for you in the future.

Now on to #2?

Originally Posted by Sageous

I still like that floor image, BTW; I think it might become a useful tool for you in the future.

Hmmm, maybe I should change my name to "FloorMan? Nah, and I *did* fly in the dream, and it was awesome.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Now on to #2?

Oh, you betcha!

I was wondering, "why floor?" And I realized this morning that a lot of my HI are medium to largish rectangles. I had previously been thinking "window!" but maybe windows and the views beyond them are too detailed and mentally taxing for a good dream-start imagery to promote. So this morning I thought "floor!" when I saw the rectangles, but fell asleep non-lucidly (very nice vivid dream though). Will keep on working on this!

Just had my first worth mentioning WILD try. I've tried going back to sleep repeating "I'm dreaming" with and without counting dozens of times usually straight when I wake up at night both naturally and with alarms, but I always just pass out.
Today I was taking a short nap after lunch as I'm doing for the last two weeks: get on my back on a couch, cover my eyes, and play a heavy rain recording on my phone with earbuds for 15-20 min. I needed the nap today specially since I slept 6 hours only. There was more noise outside than usual so I turned up the volume just a little bit more than usual.
After 1-2 minutes I perfectly saw a small mirror that reflected my forehead, I got excited and focused on it and lost it, then remembered to keep calm and not focus my vision so I relaxed and could see a scene like through a tunnel or peeping on a keyhole or something like that, but again could not help but go for it and woke up completely.
Anyways I'm happy that something else than "Let's try WILD zzzzzzzzz" happened for the first time and actually I was not even trying!!!!

So after years of trying, I finally became lucid one morning, a couple of days ago. I woke up at like 7:45 ish to go to breakfast with my parents. We got back at like 9:00 or so. I went to a hip hop show in San Francisco the night before and didn't get gack home till like almost 3:00 am, so I was extremely tired, and proceeded to crawl right back into bed with my belly full after breakfast. All I remember is walking into a room that resembled a place in Fresno where my band sometimes plays called the Chinatown Youth Center, except it was a bit smaller in the dream. There were young people that looked to be at or around my age just sitting criss cross, while cuddling with someone next to them. It looked as if they all made a border around the room, just up against the walls. I couldn't make out any fine detail though, like facial expressions, etc. But I was the only one standing in the middle of all these people cuddling. So I thought to myself in these exact words: "This is really dumb. This is just a dream". After that, everything became clear and more real looking. Everything became extremely bright as well. The closest person to where I was standing in the room was some ginger girl with her hair in a bun. After becoming lucid I could see her face clear as day, and she had huge blue eyes. After we made eye contact, I felt all my muscles cramp up, and I sunk to the floor. Then everything blacked out and I woke up.


Any tips on how to stay lucid for next time? Also, if anyone can interpret my dream, that would be much appreciated.

^^ Congratulations on your first LD, and hopefully the second won't be far behind!

I'm sure you know this, but I just wanted to clarify that lucidity does not equal brightness or clarity. Those are both good things, of course, but you can be quite lucid without them, because lucidity equals the presence of your waking-life self-awareness in a dream, which can happen in even the dullest of dreams.

Regarding staying lucid longer: there are lots of simple techniques, like rubbing your hands in the dream, spinning, or (my personal favorite) just taking a pause and calmly observing the dream while you remember that this is a dream, that your actual body is still asleep in bed, and maybe think about what you'll be doing next. You might look through the forums for threads on prolonging dreams, where you might find something helpful. Also, as you gain more experience you'll find the dreams lasting longer. But even then, sometimes your body just wakes up (especially in the case of unusual naps like this, which I have a feeling is what happened this time), so you just have to live with the short dream -- however, you can always attempt a DEILD and go right back to your dream.

Good luck with your next dive; I hope it comes soon!