Thread: What happened? Post Your WILD Attempts, Good or Bad, Here

I'm back! (...again)
I lost the time for LDing when my second semester of school kicked in, and it made me lose interest in LDing as well D:
But now because it's summer, I'm prepared to work on WILDs again!
Now I just gotta get back to where I left off ^^" I'm planning on getting my sleep schedule back in order and finding my optimal WBTB time (I pretty much know it.. but I'm going to test it again).
So yeah.. hopefully my WILD attempts will start coming your way, @Sageous! ^^"

^^ Welcome back Sydney, and good luck!

Also: Just so you don't think I'm ignoring you (or any other posters), I'm away from my machines for most of the next few days, so please be patient and I'll respond when I can.

@Sageous, I have a question that has been nagging at me for some time.

I have been charting my REM and NREM sleep cycle times, and this is how I've been going about it: if I wake up directly from a dream, then I know I was just in REM. However, if I wake up having remembered no dreams, and am in a deep-thinking-groggy-like state, then I know that I was just in NREM.

I have been doing this so as to find a good time to WBTB in, where I know I'll be at the start of a long REM period.

So, Sageous, my question is: If you wake up from a dream during the night, do your sleep cycles keep going, even while you're awake for 5 minutes or so? Or does it stop when you wake up and pick back up after you fall back to sleep? If you can answer this then that would be wonderful! ^^

If you need me to explain in more detail I can. XD

I think I almost had a DEILD today, which so far I'd never had any luck with. Unfortunately, I missed it because I wasn't expecting a dream reentry to actually take place!

After a few NLDs, I woke up wondering where my DILDs are—it's been several days; I'm overdue for another one. I went back to sleep, saw an image of a house which I thought to myself looked a lot like my childhood house, then I realized I must be dreaming because I started to recall that I had just been lying in bed daydreaming. It was dim and blurry, and I had a feeling that it felt unstable (or that I was close to waking), so I paused to give it a chance to stabilize a little bit before cautiously attempting to move through it. I made it to the hallway and then woke up.

A bit disappointed, I attempted to gratify myself by running through in my mind what I was planning to do had it not ended yet. I assumed I would remain awake like I always do (and which seems to prevent me from DEILDing). As it turns out, I actually went back into the dream (which was much brighter and clearer now) a few seconds later. But I wasn't prepared, and I failed to recognize it, losing lucidity. On the upside, I still did roughly what I was planning to do (though not exactly).

I guess the moral is that anytime I wake up and find myself mentally playing out the dream I just had, I should always hang onto my self-awareness and be on my guard in case I really do reenter it!

Originally Posted by Sydney

@Sageous, I have a question that has been nagging at me for some time.

I have been charting my REM and NREM sleep cycle times, and this is how I've been going about it: if I wake up directly from a dream, then I know I was just in REM. However, if I wake up having remembered no dreams, and am in a deep-thinking-groggy-like state, then I know that I was just in NREM.

I have been doing this so as to find a good time to WBTB in, where I know I'll be at the start of a long REM period.

So, Sageous, my question is: If you wake up from a dream during the night, do your sleep cycles keep going, even while you're awake for 5 minutes or so? Or does it stop when you wake up and pick back up after you fall back to sleep? If you can answer this then that would be wonderful!

The simple answer to this is yes. If you can maintain a "dreamy" state of mind and avoid doing things that will wake you completely (like using your phone or computer, watching TV, or having conversations with people), and you get back to sleep within an hour or so, then yes, your sleep cycle will likely still be in place and you can rejoin REM as scheduled.

So your plan to best locate your REM time seems a good one; good luck!

Originally Posted by Sageous

The simple answer to this is yes. If you can maintain a "dreamy" state of mind and avoid doing things that will wake you completely (like using your phone or computer, watching TV, or having conversations with people), and you get back to sleep within an hour or so, then yes, your sleep cycle will likely still be in place and you can rejoin REM as scheduled.

So your plan to best locate your REM time seems a good one; good luck!

Thanks Sageous! ^^

Came back for a question. I tried my anchor today and unfortunately fell unconcious. If i would make my anchor more suited towards awareness, then would it work out?

^^ I suppose it would. But be careful not to use an anchor that does too good a job of keeping you awake; you still have to fall asleep.

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ I suppose it would. But be careful not to use an anchor that does too good a job of keeping you awake; you still have to fall asleep.

I'll keep cautious about that. thanks to my sleep pattern now i can wake up tired, a perfect situation for a WILD..

My alarm is apparently broken. I guess the serious try will be tonight. Gotta get a new one

Good news: I have figured out how to wake up in the tired but aware state now.
Bad news: I didn't try to make myself more aware and thus i failed and slept instantly after laying down again.

^^ That's a start; good news indeed!

You don't really need to try to make yourself more aware. Just do a WBTB: Get up, move around for a few minutes (I suggest a minimum of 15 minutes, a maximum of 90 minutes) and simply hold onto your dreamy thoughts...no other effort need be done.

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ That's a start; good news indeed!

You don't really need to try to make yourself more aware. Just do a WBTB: Get up, move around for a few minutes (I suggest a minimum of 15 minutes, a maximum of 90 minutes) and simply hold onto your dreamy thoughts...no other effort need be done.

Is it okay if i do less than that? too much time awake would cause me to not be able to sleep back easily. I think going to the bathroom would be enough to make me wake up mentally.

^^ It's okay if it works for you; there are no specific rules to this process.

However, if it doesn't work, then I suggest you do a little experimentation: maybe stay up a little bit longer with each WBTB, until you reach a balance where you are actually able to fall back to sleep while still retaining the waking-life self-awareness necessary to complete your WILD.

Keep in mind that the point of WBTB is to recover enough wakefulness to hold that self-awareness throughout the WILD dive, so a bit of wakefulness is not only okay, but should be welcome. It can sometimes take a while to get back to sleep, but, if you are able to use that extra time to focus on the dream, you might find that the wait was worth it.

For what it's worth: I regularly take as long as an hour (or more) to get back to sleep after WBTB, but when I finally do fall asleep, I do not regret the extra time I spent awake, because I think it amplified my self-awareness and only made my LD better.

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ It's okay if it works for you; there are no specific rules to this process.

However, if it doesn't work, then I suggest you do a little experimentation: maybe stay up a little bit longer with each WBTB, until you reach a balance where you are actually able to fall back to sleep while still retaining the waking-life self-awareness necessary to complete your WILD.

Keep in mind that the point of WBTB is to recover enough wakefulness to hold that self-awareness throughout the WILD dive, so a bit of wakefulness is not only okay, but should be welcome. It can sometimes take a while to get back to sleep, but, if you are able to use that extra time to focus on the dream, you might find that the wait was worth it.

For what it's worth: I regularly take as long as an hour (or more) to get back to sleep after WBTB, but when I finally do fall asleep, I do not regret the extra time I spent awake, because I think it amplified my self-awareness and only made my LD better.

I get what you mean.. I will further look into the process. I will try out FILD in this case because in situations like these i REALLY fall asleep quickly.
Before i got knowledge on WILD, i wanted to FILD. On those days i failed each and every time because i layed back down right after shutting the alarm, thus falling asleep faster than i can keep up with. This will be interesting because FILD heavily relies on being drowsy, so this could be my thing! I have not forgotten my WILD practice but i will give FILD a chance since i'm able to meet the conditions for one. And yeah, FILD is just another WILD technically.

Originally Posted by TDHXIII

I get what you mean.. I will further look into the process. I will try out FILD in this case because in situations like these i REALLY fall asleep quickly.
Before i got knowledge on WILD, i wanted to FILD. On those days i failed each and every time because i layed back down right after shutting the alarm, thus falling asleep faster than i can keep up with. This will be interesting because FILD heavily relies on being drowsy, so this could be my thing! I have not forgotten my WILD practice but i will give FILD a chance since i'm able to meet the conditions for one. And yeah, FILD is just another WILD technically.

Another night i couldn't resist going straight back to bed. I'm going to set the alarm 30 minutes later than usual.

^^ Here's another thought: That ability to resist going right back to bed is tied directly to the waking-life self-awareness you are looking for for WILD. Not resisting going straight back implies that you are still a little too attached to sleep, which is an attachment WBTB is meant to loosen (but not break!).

So nurturing an ability to stay up for a few minutes is a very good idea. And yes, getting up 30 minutes later might help, but if it doesn't, and you still get that urge to go straight back to sleep, I suggest that you try to resist it.

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ Here's another thought: That ability to resist going right back to bed is tied directly to the waking-life self-awareness you are looking for for WILD. Not resisting going straight back implies that you are still a little too attached to sleep, which is an attachment WBTB is meant to loosen (but not break!).

So nurturing an ability to stay up for a few minutes is a very good idea. And yes, getting up 30 minutes later might help, but if it doesn't, and you still get that urge to go straight back to sleep, I suggest that you try to resist it.

Seems to be the idea..
I'm going to change my sleep pattern by a few hours because my current one is not working well. About the WBTB, i seem to fail to avoid sleeping back every single time. I should place my alarm in a position that makes me more aware, like on top of the lockers in my room. If that fails too, i guess i'll be looking at a delayed alarm whether it be 30 minutes or 1 hour. I'm going to read your WILD course one last time and follow it literally. The rest is my anchor, i need to use another strong anchor because my current one makes me drift away quickly.

I'll be aiming for 4 or 4.5 hours and i'm going to resort to a FILD approach.

I need a few things cleared up:

- How do i make sure i wake up drowsy in the first place? does it have to do with how many hours i choose before awakening?
- Do things like waking up at daytime or nighttime affect my level of drowsiness?
- Upon every attempt, i feel like i can't sleep while doing my anchor.. Is this my mind screwing around with me?

Originally Posted by TDHXIII

I'll be aiming for 4 or 4.5 hours and i'm going to resort to a FILD approach.

As you already know, I recommend moving that up to 5 or more hours, if possible.

How do i make sure i wake up drowsy in the first place? does it have to do with how many hours i choose before awakening?

My first rule of thumb for this is don't use an alarm. Alarms, even the gentler ones, tend to wake you up too thoroughly. If you can manage to simply get up during one of your sleep cycle's many moments of brief wakefulness without an alarm, you will be in better shape to fall back to sleep...and don't worry about catching REM: if you are doing your WBTB after 5hrs or so of sleep, and stay up for at least 30 minutes, rejoining REM will not be a problem.

Do things like waking up at daytime or nighttime affect my level of drowsiness?

Not really. Yes, light is the enemy of sleep, so if your bedroom is full of sunshine you might be inclined to more thoroughly awaken. But simply darkening your bedroom will resolve that. If you are still in the midst of your sleep cycle (which generally you will be for 6 to 8hrs), and you do not do too much to awaken yourself (i.e., using your computer, watching TV, using your phone) your body will still be interested in going back to sleep for about 90 minutes or more.

Upon every attempt, i feel like i can't sleep while doing my anchor.. Is this my mind screwing around with me?

Yes, your mind is screwing around with you. But remember that you are your mind; it is not a separate entity, so you are fully empowered to do a little unscrewing.

So the first -- and most important -- step in getting to sleep is simply not feeling like you can't sleep while doing your anchor (or any other reason). Indeed, don't think about getting to sleep at all; just focus on your dream, use your anchor/mantra, and let sleep come when it does. Also, be prepared to take up to 2 hours to get back to sleep, and assume that you will go to sleep eventually (if you last much more than 90min without falling asleep, you're likely up for the day). If you feel like you cannot sleep, or that doing your anchor keeps you awake, then you will indeed not fall asleep. I know this sounds simplistic, but sometimes simple is good: Don't think about falling asleep; just do your WILD and let sleep come when it comes.

Finally, if you are sure your anchor is keeping you awake, then choose another anchor or mantra. Pick something, for instance, that both holds your focus and soothes you a bit. Or, as I may have mentioned before, consider using a mantra rather than, say, a counting anchor. Activities like counting tend to inspire wakefulness, so if you're having trouble falling asleep, counting might not be the thing to do. Also, the nice thing about a mantra is that you can use it while you are doing other things that help you fall asleep (like the 61 points exercise).

If you say so.. I will give up on using an alarm. I'm going to search up a bit on how to notice natural awakenings because i don't notice them normally. That should eliminate the need to choose a timing in the first place. That's a good idea... I also think that just becoming more attuned to, or interested in, noticing your natural awakenings will help you notice them better. You might want to look into MILD's prospective memory techniques as well, as they may help you learn to remember to notice your wake-ups.

And don't forget that you always notice at least one natural awakening every time: if you can add a bit of time to your night's sleep and do your WILD after you wake up in the morning, all the better.

As for WBTB, i'm confused as to how much time do i need awake before going back to bed. This confusion will clear itself up with some experience. I suggest you start with an "up" time of about 30 minutes, and then try a little less or more until you find a timespan that works for you. That said, I do recommend a minimum up time of 15 minutes.

But do you notice natural awakenings all the time or is it a luck situation?

[Special note: due to a screw-up on my part, some of TDHXIII's original post was lost while I was making mine. Though I think the main body of your thoughts survived, TDHXIII, I do apologize for the error.]

If you say so.. I will give up on using an alarm. I'm going to search up a bit on how to notice natural awakenings because i don't notice them normally. That should eliminate the need to choose a timing in the first place..

That's a good idea... I also think that just becoming more attuned to, or interested in, noticing your natural awakenings will help you notice them better. You might want to look into MILD's prospective memory techniques as well, as they may help you learn to remember to notice your wake-ups.

And don't forget that you always notice at least one natural awakening every time: if you can add a bit of time to your night's sleep and do your WILD after you wake up in the morning, all the better.

As for WBTB, i'm confused as to how much time do i need awake before going back to bed.

This confusion will clear itself up with some experience. I suggest you start with an "up" time of about 30 minutes, and then try a little less or more until you find a timespan that works for you. That said, I do recommend a minimum up time of 15 minutes.

...but do you notice natural awakenings all the time or is it a luck situation?

I'm both a fairly light sleeper and already well-attuned to pay attention to my wake-ups, and still tend to miss (or forget I noticed) some moments of wakefulness, especially early in the night. Because we are not "wired" to notice these wake-ups (in fact we are wired to ignore them), always noticing them might be a problem. But remember that you need only notice one, and because late-cycle wake-ups are easier to notice, that one will likely be enough.

So no; it is not a luck situation. Indeed, there is really no luck involved in this... or anything else in WILD or LD'ing in general. Success is up to you, and not fate.

Originally Posted by Sageous

That's a good idea... I also think that just becoming more attuned to, or interested in, noticing your natural awakenings will help you notice them better. You might want to look into MILD's prospective memory techniques as well, as they may help you learn to remember to notice your wake-ups.

And don't forget that you always notice at least one natural awakening every time: if you can add a bit of time to your night's sleep and do your WILD after you wake up in the morning, all the better.

This confusion will clear itself up with some experience. I suggest you start with an "up" time of about 30 minutes, and then try a little less or more until you find a timespan that works for you. That said, I do recommend a minimum up time of 15 minutes.

I'm both a fairly light sleeper and already well-attuned to pay attention to my wake-ups, and still tend to miss (or forget I noticed) some moments of wakefulness, especially early in the night. Because we are not "wired" to notice these wake-ups (in fact we are wired to ignore them), always noticing them might be a problem. But remember that you need only notice one, and because late-cycle wake-ups are easier to notice, that one will likely be enough.

So no; it is not a luck situation. Indeed, there is really no luck involved in this... or anything else in WILD or LD'ing in general. Success is up to you, and not fate.

I will use auto-suggestion in combination with looking at the back of my eyelids to recognize them when i wake up from a dream.

I bet that this will have to be built up gradually.. Just creeping closer. To be honest i still have some anchor-confusion going on but i will manage somehow.

I'll be asking questions on each part of the technique, so try to hold out along. I won't have to be concerned with timing problems if i get this right, so i guess my mindset will be confident enough.

This will be it. I never really did a full-WILD with no consciousness loss before. So i don't count myself a WILDer just yet. Still, i believe being able to use those micro-awakenings can open up more chances to succeed.

Success.

I was able to notice about 4 awakenings starting with my first one after roughly 5 hours of sleeping. Oddly enough, i had the urge to sleep back like i do when i feel drowsy.
Additionally, i had a little experiment and tried to wait up 5 minutes in bed but figures i can't handle waiting while laying down, well expected! So i gained that i need to wait up while sitting somewhere instead of on my bed and that i need around 10 minutes as a minimum of wbtb.

Nontheless, this was very interesting. I couldn't stay still when waking up but that's not what i'm trying to achieve here anyway. So part one is done, now the waiting part !

Can you provide me with a method to make sure i notice the micro-awakenings? I have one already but i just want to see if your method would work out for me.
I noticed some awakenings today, but my awareness wasn't enough to even do anything. That's why i'm looking for how you do it yourself.

Other than that, can i get an example run of the WILD technique? Showing all the steps in a basic matter (Awakening, Waiting, ect..) because i'm going for it all next time..