Thread: What happened? Post Your WILD Attempts, Good or Bad, Here

My first time trying WILD was yesterday at around 15:30. I must have been really awake at the time because I was laying there for about 10 minutes and my body went numb, but I was too consciously focused on sounds that were going on outside my room and couldn't fall asleep. After a long while I gave up and checked the time to find it was 16:00.

Originally Posted by LouaiB

You should ignore these annoying urges and stimuli. They distract you and make it harder to do the dive.
FILD works really well for me. Touch sense is my strongest and the first one to come usually when I dive(it appears first if I'm doing FILD).
If I where you, I'd wait till I'm really sleepy then begin my dive. It's easier when I'm closer to fall asleep.
And then, to insure I won't get bothered by urges and what not, I visualize the dream I want to be in while repeating my mantra.
If I do this and still i 'm getting distracted by urges to roll over, I just roll over, then when I'm sleepier I try again.

If you find that you don't have a strong focus (which would make focusing on the visualizations and mantra under the bombardment of urges hard), I recommend practicing meditation, or simple focus exercises (tons of you Google search).

Welp, here's my 2 cents :3

Oh, there could be a problem I notice no one talks about really. Is your bed comfortable?

EDIT: Hey! If what you want is to be able to do a wbtb where you wake up very drowsy and able to fall asleep in seconds, then I know how to do that really easily.
I'm guessing it's for DEILD, right?
Anyways the way to do that is for you to download an alarm clock that turns itself off after like 3 seconds (you can set how much time you want till it turns off automatically).
I use "alarm clock xtreme"

If you aren't planning on doing that for DEILD, then I recommend you do. DEILD is the easiest type of WILD.

How I go about it usually is to do my regular 1 hour wbtb after 5.5 hours of sleep, then do a regular WILD, but set the alarm to play multiple times (after an hour, two, and three from the time I estimate to fall asleep (which would mean after 6.5, 7.5, and 8.5 hours of sleep)), then BAM 3 possible DEILDs. (I don't do this often though. I should get back to doing it often)
It's great bcz I get my best quality LDs during late REM cycles.

Thanks for the tips. My bed is good enough for sleeping. And i can't really try programs because my phone isn't with me at the moment.

I'm specifically aiming for a FILD because it seems to work best for me. I wake up from my alarm already drowsy, then lay back down then start moving my fingers for the FILD while focusing on the movements.

It's just today that i realized how to properly use anchors.. I was using them the wrong way all this time. Even my first WILD attempt that got me so close to HI involved this particular "Focus on the anchor" which i ignored all this time.

One thing i need to confirm:
Is FILD... a WILD just with a different anchor?

I apologize for anyone who is sick of reading my posts filled with questions. I have been struggling the past few weeks trying to get it right, and i'm getting closer to success by each passing day.

Originally Posted by TDHXIII

One thing i need to confirm: Is FILD... a WILD just with a different anchor?

Yes. FILD is indeed a technique for achieving WILDs.

I apologize for anyone who is sick of reading my posts filled with questions. I have been struggling the past few weeks trying to get it right, and i'm getting closer to success by each passing day.

No problem at all, especially if we're managing to help you get aimed in the right direction!

Originally Posted by Sageous

Yes. FILD is indeed a technique for achieving WILDs.



No problem at all, especially if we're managing to help you get aimed in the right direction!

Alright, that leaves me to the last part of my struggle:

The technique according to what i collected, and what should work for me. Green parts are done, Red parts are to be done on my next attempt:
Sleep - Awakening - Staying still - Relaxing - Focusing on the anchor without thinking about it - SP/HI/DREAM.

That is going to be exactly what i'm going to do.

Last things concerning the transition phase:
1- What should i do if i do get in HI/SP? Ignore them?
2- How do i know if i actually am in a dream right away? Some said that there is a "floaty eyes in eyelids" feeling..

So i decided to take a stab at Wilding the other day. I've had about 20 lds primarily through dild and feel that Wilding can be more reliable. So in the middle of the afternoon I decided to try one as a nap. I lied down and didn't move and started to sleep. I felt very relaxed and started to hear and feel buzzing waves, they were very pleasurable. Over time they got more and more intense and some sound hallucinations started to come into play, I heard random bits of familiar voices. I started to control them, I talked to myself in an extremely vivid, booming voice. After that all I remember is a normal dream. I must've just fallen asleep. So what did I do wrong? How do I bridge that gap between dreaming and what I was feeling?

Continuation of my post yesterday, aka my second day attempting WILD.

This time I went to sleep regularly at my bed time 10-11:30. Woke up at 1:50 AM and was up for probably 10 minutes then went to bed.

Lied down for about 1 hour and 15 minutes probably, with no feelings like before (eye twitch, minor numbness, sinking feeling), nothing happened. I couldn't stand it, so I went to bed.

Woke up at 6:00 and repeated the same results.

Was sort of disappointed that I didn't get the same thing as I did my first time.

First, TDHXIII and Sl137, I suggest that you take the DVA WILD class to which this thread is attached; I think you will find fairly thorough answers to your questions there. But as long as I am here:

TDHXIII:

Originally Posted by TDHXIII

Alright, that leaves me to the last part of my struggle:

The technique according to what i collected, and what should work for me. Green parts are done, Red parts are to be done on my next attempt:
Sleep - Awakening - Staying still - Relaxing - Focusing on the anchor without thinking about it - SP/HI/DREAM.

I think I already addressed this, but you should not be focusing on your anchor. You should instead be using it as a tool for focus on maintaining self-awareness and the dream. Making your anchor your center of focus is a distraction, not an aid.

Also, and the reason I suggested that you take the class, there is much more to WILD than simply staying still and relaxing.

Last things concerning the transition phase:
1- What should i do if i do get in HI/SP? Ignore them?
2- How do i know if i actually am in a dream right away? Some said that there is a "floaty eyes in eyelids" feeling.

1. Yes.

2. I highly recommend that you do not wait for a "floaty eyes in eyelids" feeling, or pay much attention to people who say such things; looking for more noise will only distract you more. When you are in the dream you will absolutely know it, because you have dreamed before and are aware of what they are like. Try not to concern yourself with this.

Originally Posted by Sl137

So i decided to take a stab at Wilding the other day. I've had about 20 lds primarily through dild and feel that Wilding can be more reliable. So in the middle of the afternoon I decided to try one as a nap. I lied down and didn't move and started to sleep. I felt very relaxed and started to hear and feel buzzing waves, they were very pleasurable. Over time they got more and more intense and some sound hallucinations started to come into play, I heard random bits of familiar voices. I started to control them, I talked to myself in an extremely vivid, booming voice. After that all I remember is a normal dream. I must've just fallen asleep. So what did I do wrong? How do I bridge that gap between dreaming and what I was feeling?

First, It isn't the best idea to decide to try a WILD for the first time on an impulse and just lie down and holding still at naptime. Successful WILD's need a bit more than that.

I'm guessing that what you did wrong was paying way too much attention to the noise, and not enough to maintaining self-awareness or focusing on the dream. So, because you were doing nothing to stay awake while you were falling asleep, your body fell asleep without you.

You bridge the gap between all that noise and the dream by staying focused on your upcoming dream with a waking-life, self-aware mind. Next time try to do this while ignoring all the other stuff that happens during the course of a WILD dive -- stuff that is happening anyway, but you just happen to be there to witness it during your dive.

Bottom line: all those things you describe may seem exciting and important, but they do not matter; only the dream matters. Learn to set the noise aside in the name of the dream, and you will be on your way.

Take the class, guys, it will help!

Originally Posted by Sageous

TDHXIII:

I think I already addressed this, but you should not be focusing on your anchor. You should instead be using it as a tool for focus on maintaining self-awareness and the dream. Making your anchor your center of focus is a distraction, not an aid.

I guess i'm confused here and there. I'll stop posting here until i do it successfully.
I'm going to forget everything i know about WILDs and look at it from the start

Third Continuation: Sorry about the continual posts, they'll probably get irritating if this just repeats.

Third Attempt: Went to sleep later than wanted due to dinner. 12:00.

First time waking up was 5:00 am, got up did my stuff, lasted probably eight minutes. Lied down and tried, no sensations or anything.

Second attempt: No sleep, an hour later. 6:00 AM. Lasted about 40-50 minutes. I lost ALL sensation (or most) in every single part of my arms, no problem not focusing on it. Still didn't enter dream state.

I'm feeling I have a problem knowing what to do. Is there something I'm missing? Will re-read the topics.

Originally Posted by TDHXIII

I guess i'm confused here and there. I'll stop posting here until i do it successfully.
I'm going to forget everything i know about WILDs and look at it from the start

It's okay to post here whether successful or not, TDHXIII, but looking at WILD with a fresh perspective is always a good idea.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by Roof

Third Continuation: Sorry about the continual posts, they'll probably get irritating if this just repeats.

No problem about the continual posts, Roof; that's what this thread is for!

I'm feeling I have a problem knowing what to do. Is there something I'm missing? Will re-read the topics

.
As an answer to this, I think what I'm going to do is make the same two suggestions that I've made to others to others recently:

1. If you haven't yet, take the DVA WILD class to which this thread is attached. There is much more to WILD than simply lying down and holding still. So definitely reread the topics, especially in this class, or perhaps DV's shorter WILD tutorial.

2. It is very important to pay as little attention to the noise as possible. Most of what you describe in your posts is experience of physical sensations, with little mention of how you focused on the dream or similar. WILD is not about the noise, nor is a successful WILD measured by how much noise you experience. The only measure of a successful WILD is having a lucid dream, period.

Also, it might not hurt to spend a bit more "up" time during your WBTB. I've found that a range from 30 minutes to an hour (with a max of 1.5 hrs) is much more helpful than going straight back to bed after doing your business. This gives you time to gather a bit more consciousness before you settle down for your WILD. If you keep your thoughts dreamy and calm during that up time and avoid doing things that wake you up completely like watching TV or using your computer/phone, you will find that it takes just as long to get back to sleep as it did with a very short WBTB.

Good luck with your next WILD dive!

Originally Posted by Sageous

It's okay to post here whether successful or not, TDHXIII, but looking at WILD with a fresh perspective is always a good idea.

Good luck!

I read Billybob's WILD tutorial and your class threads as a fresh start. And i fairly have an understanding of WILD now.

I guess i need to figure out if i should use natural awakening or alarm awakening. I Don't know my REM periods to be exact, so this will take a bit of experimentation.

On my main issue - the anchor, i looked back at my accidental WILD attempts, and tried to understand it. Apparently all my accidentals involved me fully intending to sleep, suddenly to find myself in HI/SP. From this, i guess there was a background factor which worked as an anchor, right?

Billybob's pain anchor sounds easy, and i'm trying to find an anchor for myself, to be specific.

Not going to post another question on this, i will try out a hand watch tied tightly to my hands.. Technically it works the same way pain does.

I'm not sure about "being slightly aware of the anchor, but not letting it dominate your awareness" because pain and pressure should work automatically.

Now if you would tell me that this use of anchors is wrong, then i will be lost because this is how i accidentally enter SP on many occasions. Normally going to sleep, then boom. Which translates to an indirect use of an anchor, whether it be worry, or uncomfort. This is how i see this, and please correct me if i'm mistakened.

I'm going to try it again, with the logic above. Fine like this?
Sleep - Awakening - Setting up the pain/pressure anchor - Going back to sleep normally

EDIT:
I slept after the initial post as a test with my wrist watch anchor slightly pressuring my wrist, not too much though. I slept at 12 and was able to wake up 1 hour later naturally and with memory of a recent dream. This is strange since i don't usually notice my natural awakening times - let alone remember a dream 1 hour after sleeping at night. I couldn't sleep back so i wrote my dream on my DJ and opened my laptop to type this.

I don't know if it has something to do with changing my sleep routine suddenly or with my anchor test. Either way, i was able to sleep with the watch on slight pressure so i surely can later on when i increase the pressure for the WILD attempt.

About the dream. I don't know what sleep cycle to link with that one. That was an interesting dream though.

That wasn't a WILD attempt, just an anchor test. Interesting results nontheless.

Originally Posted by TDHXIII

I guess i need to figure out if i should use natural awakening or alarm awakening. I Don't know my REM periods to be exact, so this will take a bit of experimentation.

I've always been a fan of waking up naturally, because alarms have a tendency to wake you too well; However, with the availability of gentler tones these days, you could probably use an alarm that doesn't do too much "alarming." Some experimentation will resolve this, though, as it will help you sort out the best time for waking. Also, be assured that none of us know our REM periods exactly, especially because they are not on a precise schedule night to night (which is why WBTB works best after several hours' sleep when REM periods are close together and hard to miss).

I'm not sure about "being slightly aware of the anchor, but not letting it dominate your awareness" because pain and pressure should work automatically.

No offense to BillyBob, but that's an excellent reason to not use pain or pressure as an anchor, I think. When there are anchors and mantras that would work just fine without the distraction or discomfort of pain, why not try them as well?

Now if you would tell me that this use of anchors is wrong, then i will be lost because this is how i accidentally enter SP on many occasions. Normally going to sleep, then boom. Which translates to an indirect use of an anchor, whether it be worry, or uncomfort. This is how i see this, and please correct me if i'm mistakened.

The use of anchors is certainly not wrong.

However, placing more focus on the anchor than your dream certainly is wrong, in my opinion. Use your anchor as an aid to maintaining self-awareness and focus on the dream, and its use is completely correct!

Also, keep in mind that entering SP (or REM Atonia, which is likely what you are actually experiencing) is not necessary for achieving successful WILDs. You might be better off not worrying about SP at all, much less making it a factor in your WILD quest.

In case you haven't found them yet, here are a couple of threads about SP you might find helpful:

Sleep Paralysis Explained

Sleep Paralysis Demystified

I'm going to try it again, with the logic above. Fine like this?
Sleep - Awakening - Setting up the pain/pressure anchor - Going back to sleep normally

I guess you've realized by now that I wouldn't recommend that plan myself, but if it works for you, then go for it!

Still, it might not hurt to try other routes or tools as well (like using a mantra), just to see if something else might work.

Also, remember that, though you must fall asleep in order to complete your WILD (or dream at all), there is nothing terribly normal about going back to sleep during a WILD.... though this plan might help produce DILD's, which is fine too. So, yes, your body must fall asleep, but your mind must remain awake throughout the process, and you in turn must be prepared to witness and out-wait that process in a way that is usually by no means going back to sleep normally.

Originally Posted by Sageous

I've always been a fan of waking up naturally, because alarms have a tendency to wake you too well; However, with the availability of gentler tones these days, you could probably use an alarm that doesn't do too much "alarming." Some experimentation will resolve this, though, as it will help you sort out the best time for waking. Also, be assured that none of us know our REM periods exactly, especially because they are not on a precise schedule night to night (which is why WBTB works best after several hours' sleep when REM periods are close together and hard to miss).



No offense to BillyBob, but that's an excellent reason to not use pain or pressure as an anchor, I think. When there are anchors and mantras that would work just fine without the distraction or discomfort of pain, why not try them as well?


The use of anchors is certainly not wrong.

However, placing more focus on the anchor than your dream certainly is wrong, in my opinion. Use your anchor as an aid to maintaining self-awareness and focus on the dream, and its use is completely correct!

Also, keep in mind that entering SP (or REM Atonia, which is likely what you are actually experiencing) is not necessary for achieving successful WILDs. You might be better off not worrying about SP at all, much less making it a factor in your WILD quest.

In case you haven't found them yet, here are a couple of threads about SP you might find helpful:

Sleep Paralysis Explained

Sleep Paralysis Demystified

I guess you've realized by now that I wouldn't recommend that plan myself, but if it works for you, then go for it!

Still, it might not hurt to try other routes or tools as well (like using a mantra), just to see if something else might work.

Also, remember that, though you must fall asleep in order to complete your WILD (or dream at all), there is nothing terribly normal about going back to sleep during a WILD.... though this plan might help produce DILD's, which is fine too. So, yes, your body must fall asleep, but your mind must remain awake throughout the process, and you in turn must be prepared to witness and out-wait that process in a way that is usually by no means going back to sleep normally.

Ah, SP. I have gotten over the fear and worry about it a while ago.

How would using a mantra work out? Because i don't have a grip on how i should use it. You know, i think anchors like pressure and the such are easier to fall asleep with. But i haven't put them to the test yet. I will.

The plan wasn't literal, that would be my mindset, but i know that it won't be the same. Only with this mindset can i sleep while holding onto an anchor.

And as always, i'll be trying the technique again and again until i get how it works out. I can guess that i'm avoiding using mantras because i don't understand how to use them.

I'm going for it now. I won't be able to reply for a set period that could be 2 weeks at most. So this will be my last post for now. I'll try out mantras and the pain/pressure anchors to see which works fine. I wouldn't worry about the transition or anything, that sounds easy to pull off.

^^ A mantra is effectively an anchor, so it would be used similarly and so tend to work out with similar results. I think a mantra's advantage, though, is that you can take it right into the dream with you, thus helping you focus all the way to lucidity, while physical anchors tend to lose their strength as your body sets about shutting off sensory systems as it prepares for sleep.

I say a bit more about mantras here, in a session dedicated to them in my WILD class. I hope you will look at it.

Also, and almost as an aside, I did not offer those links about SP because I thought you were afraid of it, but because your words implied that you assumed getting to SP was a necessary part of the WILD process, which it most definitely is not. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ A mantra is effectively an anchor, so it would be used similarly and so tend to work out with similar results. I think a mantra's advantage, though, is that you can take it right into the dream with you, thus helping you focus all the way to lucidity, while physical anchors tend to lose their strength as your body sets about shutting off sensory systems as it prepares for sleep.

I say a bit more about mantras here, in a session dedicated to them in my WILD class. I hope you will look at it.

Also, and almost as an aside, I did not offer those links about SP because I thought you were afraid of it, but because your words implied that you assumed getting to SP was a necessary part of the WILD process, which it most definitely is not. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Good luck!

I had a thought today, and something caught my attention.

Back on my first few attempts, one of them was almost successful. I was having pre-HI effects (fast heartbeat, eyes twitching) but then i got up from excitement.
Now, what's so special about that attempt? Why did i easily get near it even though i was wide awake? I used an anchor too on that attempt. I wasn't focused on staying awake nor sleeping. So?

This leads me to the potential cause of all my failures. Not the execution, but the timing might be the mistake.

I have not yet tried the attempt having awakened from an alarm right out of a dream.

If my execution at that time is the same execution all these attempts, it's most likely the time.

So the next grand experiment, i will time my alarm 6.5/7 Hours later. That will make me close to REM, no?

What do you think? I'm under the impression that this is my fault all these attempts, none of them happened after 6 hours.

^^ Timing is definitely important, TDHXIII.

Yes, since REM periods are very close together that late in the sleep cycle, doing WBTB after six hours' sleep will definitely increase your chance of quickly joining a REM period when you get back to sleep. Keep in mind, though, that it might take a couple of attempts to get your timing just right.

A quick note about rising to an alarm (hopefully I didn't already say this): I personally do not recommend using an alarm, because they tend to waken you too effectively, and you might find yourself leavinng your night's sleep cycle behind altogether when one goes off. However, if you are sure you won't waken naturally at a good time, you might at least try as gentle an alarm as possible.

Let us know how this goes...

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ Timing is definitely important, TDHXIII.

Yes, since REM periods are very close together that late in the sleep cycle, doing WBTB after six hours' sleep will definitely increase your chance of quickly joining a REM period when you get back to sleep. Keep in mind, though, that it might take a couple of attempts to get your timing just right.

A quick note about rising to an alarm (hopefully I didn't already say this): I personally do not recommend using an alarm, because they tend to waken you too effectively, and you might find yourself leavinng your night's sleep cycle behind altogether when one goes off. However, if you are sure you won't waken naturally at a good time, you might at least try as gentle an alarm as possible.

Let us know how this goes...

Well, i don't have an option for changing my alarm. I could put my alarm under something that makes the noise made by it quieter though. Does that sound like it could work?

Well I am kinda back
Last night I felt really drowsy after waking up directly from a really cool dream, so I thought why not try to WILD.
I relaxed myself and felt my body falling down. My breathing became more relaxed and I started seeing patterns. Then some people appeared, although very blurry and I started hearing medival music. But, because of the scary stories of seeing weird stuff ( although I know that its not that time when you could possibly see weird things ), I became nervous and I woke up completely

Originally Posted by TDHXIII

Well, i don't have an option for changing my alarm. I could put my alarm under something that makes the noise made by it quieter though. Does that sound like it could work?

It would still be better to wake up naturally, but I suppose muffling your alarm a bit couldn't hurt. If your clock is of the old-fashioned plug-in-the-wall variety, though, be careful how you cover it (i.e., covering it directly with a towel might cause it to overheat); sticking it under the bed or under a box might be a good idea...though, come to think of it, the effort to find your clock to turn it off might be just as rousing as the unmuffled alarm!

I guess experimentation is the operative word here!

Originally Posted by lucidmats

Well I am kinda back
Last night I felt really drowsy after waking up directly from a really cool dream, so I thought why not try to WILD.
I relaxed myself and felt my body falling down. My breathing became more relaxed and I started seeing patterns. Then some people appeared, although very blurry and I started hearing medival music. But, because of the scary stories of seeing weird stuff ( although I know that its not that time when you could possibly see weird things ), I became nervous and I woke up completely

Sounds to me like this was a DEILD attempt, which is still just fine. Here are a couple of thoughts:

First, it really is best to plan your WILD attempts. Doing them on the spur of the moment, especially when you are new to the practice, usually doesn't go well. Consider setting aside a specific night for your attempt, so that you can mentally prepare for it, build up some expectation, and perhaps even doing a bit of unconscious programming that sees your mind and body being a bit more cooperative come dive time. That said, it never hurts to make impromptu attempts, because practice is always a good thing, so don't stop the unplanned attempts; just be sure to plan a WILD attempt as well.

Also, I highly recommend you try to ignore the people who spread scary stories about HI and the physical sensations that accompany a WILD dive (aka, the noise). Even if they are well-intentioned and not just trying to frighten you, they are still either mistaken or operating under a different agenda than becoming lucid, and they are wrong regardless. Anything you experience during a WILD dive is coming from your own mind and nowhere else, and generally represents what is going on as you fall asleep every night, only you are usually not consciously present to witness them; in other words, all this is natural, and there is nothing scary about any of it. That said, had you been less concerned about all that noise, you may have made it to your dream; try to disregard it next time.

Originally Posted by Sageous

It would still be better to wake up naturally, but I suppose muffling your alarm a bit couldn't hurt. If your clock is of the old-fashioned plug-in-the-wall variety, though, be careful how you cover it (i.e., covering it directly with a towel might cause it to overheat); sticking it under the bed or under a box might be a good idea...though, come to think of it, the effort to find your clock to turn it off might be just as rousing as the unmuffled alarm!

I guess experimentation is the operative word here!

Well i tried setting it up under a pillow near my head, not too close but near.
It didn't shock me like the usual times i set it up, so there is hope for this method to work. All that's left is to give a shot after 6.5 hours of sleep and attempt WILD.

This night I woke up after about 4-5 h of sleep.
I decided to do a WBTB and for once NOT to use LD sups (galantamine + A-GPC).
Obviously it is much less easy to WILD naturally, and I wasn't successful, but I'd like to work on it.

My WBTB was supposed to last about 30 mins, but it lasted between an 1h20 and 1h40 and I guess I missed a REM window.
I used the mantra "to stay concentrated" in French, with the implicit meaning "I have to stay focused".
This mantra, that I repeat each time I inhale, has the power to automatically bring my attention back when I am loosing myself into the maze of my thoughts.
Nonetheless, it gets harder and harder as I am passing through the sleep stages, and the N-REM barrier seams to bring be the 4th stage, with Delta brain waves I suppose, and I loose consciousness.
at the beginning it was easy to notice the dreamlets, which are basically n-rem short dreams, and I was coming back to my lucid mind, but those dreamlets were more and more complicated, and were disassembling my focused mind longer and longer.
Until I never came back.
I woke up one hour later, without any dream in memory, but wasn't aware enough to try again.
It would be easier if a REM window was following the stage 2, and I think that Galantamine makes this happen and that's probably why it is easier to WILD with it, but I'm not sure about that.

Anyway, I presume I would have more chances to do it after 6h of sleep, but for some reason, when I wake up after 6h for a WBTB, I hardly can go back to sleep.

So this brings me to the question I'd like to ask to Sageous:

Even if I have only slept 4,5H prior to WBTB, and if I manage to keep the WBTB lenght between 30min to 1H, I must have some REM sleep before the end of the cycle, but I have to be close to a REM stage if I want to have more chances not to loose my awareness.
I presume the circadian cycles are virtually passing by even when we are awake during the WBTB.

As showed in this picture:


In the middle of the night, if we are close to stage 2, we can go down more until stage 3 our 4, OR we can go up and so we are close to REM sleep.
What I want is to reach the stage 1 or 2 that is ramping up, the one that is followed by REM, and what I want to avoid, is the stage 2 that is followed by deeper slow sleep stages.


So the question is : do you have a tip to notice, by an internal feeling or something, when a REM sleep window is imminent?
In other words : "can we feel when it is time to go back to sleep when our purpose is to have as less n-rem sleep to cross as possible ?

Originally Posted by Kaan

So the question is : do you have a tip to notice, by an internal feeling or something, when a REM sleep window is imminent?
In other words : "can we feel when it is time to go back to sleep when our purpose is to have as less n-rem sleep to cross as possible ?

Not really.

I like to maintain a "dreamy" feeling during WBTB; a sense that you are still very close to your dreams, even when you are awake. This usually helps, come back-to-sleep time, to either settle right back into REM* or at least better maintain my self-awareness through any NREM pauses (full disclosure: I actually enjoy my time in NREM and Delta, so I tend to welcome these pauses). Beyond that, though I have looked, I've never found a way to know specifically when my next REM period is starting (or has started). The best you can do is maintain that dreamy feeling through WBTB, and make sure that WBTB is long enough to increase your chances at falling asleep into a REM period that has already begun.

All this is why it is a very good idea to do your WBTB as far into your sleep cycle as possible. My rule of thumb is a minimum of 5 hours sleep, which is when REM periods start moving closer together, and stage 3 & 4 sleep are nonexistent... after 4hrs might not have been enough and, as you noted, you had to negotiate a bit of NREM. So you might try to sleep a bit longer, though clearly 6hrs is too long.


*Here is another thought: keep in mind that REM periods may be more malleable than the charts describe. Try not to think during WBTB about things like "Oh, I still have 20 minutes of NREM to wait," or "Damn, I stayed up to long and missed my REM cycle." In other words, save any thoughts about the science of what you are doing until after your WILD attempt is done; they tend to be both a distraction and a sure way to wake you up too much, thus threatening your continued sleep cycle.

TDHXIII : I'm really impressed by your perseverance!!
You got the flare of a true LDer at heart !
This will come in handy, help you keep pushing. You do get better even if you don't feel it. And you'll need this drive cuz the road is long. Needs lots of patience.

I have a comment about the mantra. If you still don't get it, it's simply an attempt to keep reminding yourself that you're falling into a dream. When we start falling asleep, we start losing our minds lol not literally but I mean that our thoughts get jumbled and also we start forgetting that what is happening is us diving. We forget that what is going on around us is actually figments of our imagination, and instead, with our half-baked sleeping brain, tend to get fooled into thinking it's real, completely forgetting that we actually where diving just a second ago.

Quick Note: [Well o/c the more self awareness you have trained, the less likely you are to falling to the natural assumption in this 'stupid sleep mindset' that what is around you is reality. But don't worry about that now. You'll build up more self awareness gradually with practice.]

Getting back to the anchor; it helps because it maintains your self awareness. It's like a spotlight that keeps you from losing the grip of where you are when the night gets darker.

Like in the movies where the guy said "there's no such thing as ghosts, there's no such thing as ghosts" while walking in the haunted house.
Lol, kinda like that.


Also as a bonus to this post lol, a little motivational poem:

"When the sounds die down
And the world goes asleep
The inspired minds go down
To the worlds of the sleep
Where the illusion of reality dies down
And the mind is no longer asleep

They who grab this soberness
This realization of being in dreams
Are the ones who truly discover the wonders
Of waterfalls and skyscrapers
Made of gold and magic
Held by pillars of fabric
Fabric of fire and ice
Only existing in the realm of the song of existing
Existing in this song of other worlds
Where reality sings its anthem to the dream
And the dream sings back to the inspired
Speaking words of fortune
Fortunate they are, dream says
Where thy is pleasured by endless possibilities
Only to touch the limits of the dream
The boundaries of waking possibilities
Which exist except in the minds of the inspired
Since thy minds are special
Where thy minds can see what other less fortunate can't
The sight of realizing a dream
The moments of knowing that thy what you perceive can be morphed
Morphed to form your wildest dreams

So keep on pushing my friends
Cuz we are, we all are, truly inspired"