• Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




    View RSS Feed

    Alyzarin

    I almost forgot what it was like to have lucids like this; the dream world is incredible....

    by , 03-08-2013 at 03:38 PM (848 Views)
    So just for the record, I've gotten lucid three times in the past four days. >.> But I haven't felt like recording them because the one from Tuesday just totally disappeared from memory, and the one from yesterday I remember basically nothing of either, but I remember all of the non-lucid bits both before and after it. I guess I might add that one in here.... But the first one, I want to say that nothing important happened. But I might just want that to be the case. ._. There's really no way to say for sure. The second one... I'm pretty certain that the only thing I did was phasing, which is of course nothing new for me. I remember experiencing it and everything, I just don't really remember the experience itself. Oh well, the one from last night very much made up for it....

    Oh, and for the last few days I've been taking 400 mg of L-theanine a day, divided into two doses of 200 mg with one in the morning and one in the late afternoon or early evening, usually.

    Yesterday

    #1 - But why are we in a skyscraper to begin with? [Non-Lucid]

    I was in some school class in a huge skyscraper in some downtown area, and there were random people I graduated from high school with, this girl who sits behind me in my speech class I'm taking this semester at college, and my parents, for some reason. There was a massive storm coming our way with tornadoes visible through the windows and everything, and I was holding my mom's hand as we were all scared. There's a flashforward and things get hazy, but I remember seeing people evacuate but thinking that it wasn't on the same day but it was the same "windy season"....

    #2 - Who would build a bathroom like this!? >_< [DILD]

    The details of this have gotten hazier since I didn't care to write it down at first, but there was some gigantic computer mouse whose cord stretched all the way across some city streets, and it got pulled away and I tried to chase it but lost track of it. I remember seeing my old high school friend AB's car, but then things get blurry.... This is around where I became lucid and phased but then my next memory picks again at the non-lucid point. :T I was spending the night somewhere with AB, M, and these guys J and Ma who I met through M. The next morning, I woke up and started blasting some really heavy club music and M got excited, and her boyfriend D, who's suddenly there, turns to me and says something like "We can catch up later." I then realized that I needed to go change my clothes so I went to the bathroom to do so, but there were big windows all over the door so it was very easy to see inside. Everyone was oriented in the direction of the windows, but just not looking directly into them, but of course it was making me very uncomfortable at the thought of starting to change. J was saying maybe they should turn in a different direction, but then I woke up.

    Today

    Last night, I took 250 mg of choline bitartrate immediately before going to bed. I'm fairly certain this had an effect, particularly on the lucid.

    #1 - This would have been great to become lucid for!! [Non-Lucid]

    I was playing some bizarre new PSP game the whole time, and there actually was something going on in the rest of the dream too but I pretty much missed it all because I was so focused on playing, so I don't really remember the plot anymore. What I remember about the game was that it had a setup where you had a team of playable characters that reminded me of the structure of NIS games, but it was mixed with a simulated life raising element like chao from the Sonic Adventure and Sonic Advance games, and the actual creature and level designs were sort of Pikmin-like. I really wish I could've played more of it because it seemed really interesting, but that's about all I can recall of it, and I remember walking up stairs or something maybe to see my speech professor... but no more solid details than that.

    I woke up from this dream with a very strong headache. I'm fairly certain that my head was smashed into this part of the backboard of my bed and that's what caused it, because the pain slowly went away in a way that I can only relate to when you wake up with a numb arm and it slowly returns to normal, but it was my first time having that type of thing happen so I can only guess. But I really hope that that's what happened because otherwise it would mean I woke up with a severe unexplained headache. >___>

    #2 - I could've told them this would happen... somehow. [Non-Lucid]

    I was in a high school PE class (though I think the setting might actually have been my elementary school, sort of?) with O and people kept trying to give him balls that corresponded to different sports, but I remember equating these to video game weapons in my mind and thinking that they were doing it wrong because they didn't realize that "his growth charts are unique". Eventually he decided to play what I think was registered as either baseball or golf... but it's really just a bunch of balls bouncing around and people chasing after them with no clear goals. He makes the "winning play" I believe when at least one of the teams is "frozen" at 23 seconds left on the timer, but it switches to this weird TV view for it that only shows symbols to represent the player. He was excited that they run, but due to the odd way I saw it play out I asked him for verification that he actually was the reason they won, claiming that "they only showed the overhead", or some such nonsense. Suddenly he got all depressed at the thought because he didn't realize that he had won it, he thought he was just a part of it, so we asked some other guy and he said that that was the case. Suddenly O sank into despair, and this guy PR who I've known since elementary school tries to ask him what's wrong and cheer him up or something, but he proclaims that he may never play that sport again, and then walks out of the gym all dejected as class ends. On the way out I was trying to think of a way to explain his reaction to PR, but I couldn't really think of a good way to phrase it before I woke up.

    #3 - I think it might have been inspired by Buffy? [DILD]

    This was an odd driving dream, and I'm fairly certain I've had something like this happen before.... Basically, I was driving home in the snow at night, and I was stuck driving from the back seat where there was an accelerator but no breaks. As a result, I was forced to drive very slowly and frequently take my foot off the gas so that I wouldn't gain too much momentum. I have no idea why I didn't think to just climb up to the front seat, but I know that there was a car driving behind me too, so maybe I just didn't want to mess with the situation and cause any trouble. We came over this bridge in my neighborhood, and then when I turned on to my street it was suddenly daytime. Somehow I managed to go too far beyond my house though, and then this car started coming down the street in the other direction right for me, and I perceived someone else as being in the car with me at this point too, but I don't recall ever seeing anyone.... I started thinking "shit shit shit" because I couldn't stop the car or change the direction it was going in very easily, and then we ended up headbutting the other car. This is all unbelievably vivid... perhaps a mix of the supplements and the adrenaline boost? I started trying to rationalize this situation because I didn't want to have to actually be in a car crash again, and then I thought to myself "Wait, could this be a dream? This whole thing is pretty odd...." I climbed into the front seat and by then I had a feel for my state of mind and was sure of it, so I became lucid.

    At this point I looked around at the street and the sky and just stared. This was one of those lucids that leaves you completely in awe from start to finish as you repeatedly tell yourself "There's no way a dream could be this real." As I looked over the neighborhood, there was no distribution of focus as in a regular dream, it was all fully rendered as a single image. It seemed exactly as if I was seeing it in waking life in every way, minus the snow. I ended up driving back down to where my house was (and I think it was using my first car which is long gone), and when I got there my house was pretty different. It was tall and thin, spanning multiple floors, whereas the real one has only one floor and is much more wide than tall. There were also large windows spanning most of the front face, and it had some kind of Greek-esque architectural design for what looked almost like a tomb on the ground floor, and it was covered in plant vines and everything. There was some large inscription at the top of this part, which was totally made out of stone, and I didn't get a good look at all of it but I do remember seeing the word "SOUL" in large print. Again, this was all extremely vivid. I wanted to go inside and check it out, as the front door was still right there where it should have been in the middle of that framework, but about that time I started feeling a headache again and
    woke up.

    *sigh* That would've been cool to explore. That headache, too... not the real one, but this one in the lucid. It felt like the ones I get when I smoke too much or the last few times I tripped. I'm really starting to wonder if it's hippocampal in origin, and if the choline brought it out.... I guess this break from smoking will probably help in more ways than I thought, because it's going to be annoying if that headache keeps making an appearance in lucids. :/ Hopefully it was just a one-time thing though, and overall I still consider this dream very successful.
    Linkzelda and CanisLucidus like this.

    Submit "I almost forgot what it was like to have lucids like this; the dream world is incredible...." to Digg Submit "I almost forgot what it was like to have lucids like this; the dream world is incredible...." to del.icio.us Submit "I almost forgot what it was like to have lucids like this; the dream world is incredible...." to StumbleUpon Submit "I almost forgot what it was like to have lucids like this; the dream world is incredible...." to Google

    Comments

    1. Linkzelda's Avatar
      Hope you have fun with getting back to lucid dreaming and such. Glad that you're back to appreciating the dream world, unlike me. .___.
      Alyzarin likes this.
    2. Iokheira's Avatar
      Awesome dreams! The glass bathroom was pretty funny And I can't imagine a lucid like that! Wow. That would have been really awesome to see.

      And what is it with everyone and bad car dreams? Canis and I were talking about this, seems like whenever we dream of cars they aren't working, or crashing, or other bad stuff. A day or two ago I dreamed of wrecking tons of stuff in a car and a bus, and last night I dreamed the car was in park but kept moving. Car dreams suck. Vivid car dreams really suck.
      CanisLucidus and Alyzarin like this.
    3. CanisLucidus's Avatar
      I love it! The DJ section is just blowing up w/ these great lucids... I see you, Art, and it looks like Dutch had a freakin Fallout 3 lucid or something, probably a bunch of others I haven't seen yet, I dunno I haven't even got to read all this goodness yet!

      This sounds like a great dream! I love that even though you managed to not forget that you were dreaming, the only thing you had to really cling to was your own memory that you were dreaming. Everything around you sounds like it was so vivid that you could easily just fall right back into believing you were just walking around the neighborhood or your fancy new Greek-styled house. Amazing. I am really happy for you.

      I've heard of choline-induced headaches before but never experienced one myself. Apparently high levels of ACh could be associated with headache but since this particular side effect never hit me, I have not looked into it. Your dose of bitartrate sounds very reasonable, too. Not even close to excessive I'd think.

      I was curious what you thought about choline bitartrate's relatively quick elimination half life (90 minutes IIRC?) I've always assumed that it would only be helpful in a WBTB but clearly you got fine, vivid results taking it before bed. I thought I might get high ACh too early, mess up deep sleep, and then not have anything left for the rich REM later. But I consider this a huge success. I wonder how early in the night this LD hit... do you know?

      Anyway, forget all my blah blah about supps... congratulations on a great LD!
      Alyzarin likes this.
    4. Alyzarin's Avatar
      Quote Originally Posted by Linkzelda
      Hope you have fun with getting back to lucid dreaming and such. Glad that you're back to appreciating the dream world, unlike me. .___.
      Thanks. I'm sure you'll get back your appreciation eventually if you stick with it, you just need to find a reason for motivation again. And sometimes it's good to take a break and focus on reality too, it just depends on how you're feeling about things. Do you really have any lucid goals right now?

      Quote Originally Posted by NewArtemis
      Awesome dreams! The glass bathroom was pretty funny And I can't imagine a lucid like that! Wow. That would have been really awesome to see.



      And what is it with everyone and bad car dreams? Canis and I were talking about this, seems like whenever we dream of cars they aren't working, or crashing, or other bad stuff. A day or two ago I dreamed of wrecking tons of stuff in a car and a bus, and last night I dreamed the car was in park but kept moving. Car dreams suck. Vivid car dreams really suck.
      Thank you! The lucid was pretty great. I've had lucids that were that vivid before, but they were never in an area where I happened to have that wide of a field of view. It was really something!

      And well, the dream would be kind of boring if you just had a regular car ride, wouldn't it? But now that you mention it, even my friends' dreams that I can recall them telling me about with cars have all been about crashes and the like.... I barely ever have them myself, but thinking back on it it definitely seems like that's the case, too. I'm actually disappointed in myself... one of the last times I really remember getting behind the wheel in a non-lucid, I was able to recognize the fact that my perception was cloudy (without realizing it was because I was dreaming) and decided that I was "too fucked up" to drive. I guess I just decided to risk it this time.

      Quote Originally Posted by CanisLucidus
      I love it! The DJ section is just blowing up w/ these great lucids... I see you, Art, and it looks like Dutch had a freakin Fallout 3 lucid or something, probably a bunch of others I haven't seen yet, I dunno I haven't even got to read all this goodness yet!

      This sounds like a great dream! I love that even though you managed to not forget that you were dreaming, the only thing you had to really cling to was your own memory that you were dreaming. Everything around you sounds like it was so vivid that you could easily just fall right back into believing you were just walking around the neighborhood or your fancy new Greek-styled house. Amazing. I am really happy for you.

      I've heard of choline-induced headaches before but never experienced one myself. Apparently high levels of ACh could be associated with headache but since this particular side effect never hit me, I have not looked into it. Your dose of bitartrate sounds very reasonable, too. Not even close to excessive I'd think.

      I was curious what you thought about choline bitartrate's relatively quick elimination half life (90 minutes IIRC?) I've always assumed that it would only be helpful in a WBTB but clearly you got fine, vivid results taking it before bed. I thought I might get high ACh too early, mess up deep sleep, and then not have anything left for the rich REM later. But I consider this a huge success. I wonder how early in the night this LD hit... do you know?

      Anyway, forget all my blah blah about supps... congratulations on a great LD!
      I guess it was just a good night to get lucid. :3 And thanks!

      Honestly, I think I might have been a little too lucid to become non-lucid again lol. Remember before how you were talking about lucidity like a burst of a awareness that just becomes self-sustaining? It's like that.... It was like it was so real that I couldn't possibly forget that it wasn't real, if that makes sense. I had completely ordinary waking consciousness, so it was very clear to me that I was dreaming. Maybe if the dream had lasted long enough some lucidity would have faded, but at the time it was so intense.... Dreams are just great. n_n

      As for the headaches, I just happen to be very sensitive to them right now because of how I've been overdoing everything. I think it's a low GABA thing, because I get them strongly in the days following heavy GABA drugs like alcohol, and both cannabinoids and acetylcholine lower GABA in the hippocampus. Chronic CB2 activation is also known to lead to anxiety-like behavior, which generally corresponds to low GABA as well, so I'm guessing that's why it becomes more common the more often I smoke. Basically, I just need to stay on this break for sure. Right now I'm trying to only smoke with friends, because the headaches never show up when I do. Maybe I just have higher GABA levels around close friends because I'm more at ease? But I have taken choline at higher doses than this before at times when this wasn't prevalent without having this side effect show up before, so I'm pretty sure it's just that.

      My phone says I logged the lucid, which was right after I woke up from it, at ~6:45 AM. As for how the choline works, this is what immediately comes to mind for me.... Choline is an essential nutrient. It is created in the body, but not in sufficient amounts for use; for all intents and purposes, you have to get it from outside sources. In other words, basically all the non-supplemental choline in our body comes from our diet, and in that way there isn't actually any difference between the supplemental and dietary forms, it just comes from different sources. Given that we have a constant supply of acetylcholine required for normal functioning, but nowhere near a constant intake of choline, it logically follows that much of the acetylcholine resulting from these supplements must be packed and stored for later release at the proper time. So then the matter of taking it at bedtime comes into play.... Non-REM sleep is the time at which our lowest levels of acetylcholine are present, meaning that very little of this stored acetylcholine will be released even following the dose. But then, when REM hits, our acetylcholine levels are at their highest, and that's when that extra volume will be released, and that would explain how it helps dreams even much later in the night, and continuously as the night progresses. I would guess that's why some people say to take choline at bed and galantamine at WBTB, because that's what I've usually heard. I can by no means guarantee that this is the way it is... but it makes sense to me. What do you think?
    5. Linkzelda's Avatar
      Quote Originally Posted by Alyzarin
      Thanks. I'm sure you'll get back your appreciation eventually if you stick with it, you just need to find a reason for motivation again. And sometimes it's good to take a break and focus on reality too, it just depends on how you're feeling about things. Do you really have any lucid goals right now?
      I don't have any lucid goals right now, I'm too concerned about my well-being with reality for now. After going through constant episodes with trying to incorporate dreaming with reality, I knew I would fail most of the time. I just need to temporarily get back into not remembering my dreams and seizing this reality instead.

      It's only when I have vacation or holidays for a few days where I can really get into dreaming, but when there's no time, I focus more on trying to find ways to earn more money for myself, which has been going good so far, I just need to push it a bit more. You know what I mean? Dreaming is fun and all to recall, but if I can work on myself and improve myself, the dreaming can wait, at least for my path right now.
      Alyzarin likes this.
    6. Alyzarin's Avatar
      That's probably for best then, I'm glad to hear that. I definitely get it, it's good to stay on track. That's kind of how I felt for a while too, and I'm just starting to get back into paying attention to my dreams again.

      I hope things keep going well for you.
      Linkzelda likes this.
    7. CanisLucidus's Avatar
      Honestly, I think I might have been a little too lucid to become non-lucid again lol. Remember before how you were talking about lucidity like a burst of a awareness that just becomes self-sustaining? It's like that.... It was like it was so real that I couldn't possibly forget that it wasn't real, if that makes sense. I had completely ordinary waking consciousness, so it was very clear to me that I was dreaming. Maybe if the dream had lasted long enough some lucidity would have faded, but at the time it was so intense.... Dreams are just great. n_n
      Ahh, yeah I get what you mean. That is just awesome. Wow. You really were like at the top level as far as having all of "you" brought into the dream. It's pretty rare for me to get absolutely every shred of my mental faculties online, even in a lucid dream. I feel like I'm mostly there, and I definitely feel like me, and I definitely get what's going on but... usually something's missing, be it a bit of critical thinking, a bit of self-restraint, a bit of knowing when to not sing hymns of praise to my supplements.

      And yes! Dreams are great. =D

      As for the headaches, I just happen to be very sensitive to them right now because of how I've been overdoing everything.
      Ah, makes a lot of sense! I think you're right on then. Your choline bitartrate dose was really so modest that I don't think it could have been any kind of sole trigger. (It's literally one half of what I get in one pill of mine.)

      My phone says I logged the lucid, which was right after I woke up from it, at ~6:45 AM. As for how the choline works, this is what immediately comes to mind for me.... Choline is an essential nutrient.
      ...
      I would guess that's why some people say to take choline at bed and galantamine at WBTB, because that's what I've usually heard. I can by no means guarantee that this is the way it is... but it makes sense to me. What do you think?
      Interesting idea, I could buy that! Yuschak recommended taking choline at WBTB, but given the experience you had here, my guess is that either approach can work well. I should learn more about how ACh is stored. I'd thought that ACh was produced right in the neuron and stored in the synaptic vesicles, but I've no idea if these have any capacity limitations that are relevant with different types of dosages. Like, what would happen if you hammer down 500mg choline bitartrate and 600mg GPC before bed?

      This is cool. I'm really glad you shared this experience. I've more thinking/reading/experimenting to do!
      Alyzarin likes this.
    8. Alyzarin's Avatar
      Ahh, yeah I get what you mean. That is just awesome. Wow. You really were like at the top level as far as having all of "you" brought into the dream. It's pretty rare for me to get absolutely every shred of my mental faculties online, even in a lucid dream. I feel like I'm mostly there, and I definitely feel like me, and I definitely get what's going on but... usually something's missing, be it a bit of critical thinking, a bit of self-restraint, a bit of knowing when to not sing hymns of praise to my supplements.

      And yes! Dreams are great. =D
      Haha, well that's how I normally am in lucids, too. These are the dreams that really stick with you, because they don't come often. At least not at our level.... I'm sure if you've mastered ADA or anything similar they're quite common! They're pretty cool, though. I can recall having only three or four that were in the same ballpark as this, and this was honestly probably the best of them due to the level of scenery I got to observe. Interestingly, my normal high-energy lucid mindset of just messing around with DCs or aimlessly finding new ways to use powers or toy around with the dream world disappears in these dreams. Which I guess makes sense, because I don't have that attitude in my ordinary waking consciousness.... Instead, when these dreams come I always spend the entire thing just inspecting them in awe. Because it really is just like... as if you were there. Like, as if you were exactly as you are right now, except the location you were in was the lucid dream rather than the waking world. How could you do anything but marvel at it?

      Interesting idea, I could buy that! Yuschak recommended taking choline at WBTB, but given the experience you had here, my guess is that either approach can work well. I should learn more about how ACh is stored. I'd thought that ACh was produced right in the neuron and stored in the synaptic vesicles, but I've no idea if these have any capacity limitations that are relevant with different types of dosages. Like, what would happen if you hammer down 500mg choline bitartrate and 600mg GPC before bed?

      This is cool. I'm really glad you shared this experience. I've more thinking/reading/experimenting to do!
      That's a good question, maybe we should try it and find out. I actually don't know all that much about how acetylcholine is stored either, but I'd love to know more, so give me a holler if you find anything cool!

      Here's something you may or may not know, which may influence your research. Choline is metabolized by the enzyme choline acetyltransferase into acetylcholine, which is then metabolized by acetylcholinesterase... back into choline. Choline is metabolized into other things as well, so the amount of it used to restart this loop will get less each time, but it will continue. I can only imagine that has some kind of role to play in all of this. I'd be particularly interested in anything related to that you may happen to find! I personally wonder if this may be why (oh, by the way, if you weren't aware) psychedelics come in waves - first they build up to the highest peak, then let up a bit, then peak a little lower, let up, lower peak, etc., until they finally wear off. This is most prevalent at the doses where full eidetic imagery is present, highly suggestive of significant acetylcholine activity. So this is a matter which holds a special interest to me.
      CanisLucidus likes this.
    9. CanisLucidus's Avatar
      I can recall having only three or four that were in the same ballpark as this, and this was honestly probably the best of them due to the level of scenery I got to observe. Interestingly, my normal high-energy lucid mindset of just messing around with DCs or aimlessly finding new ways to use powers or toy around with the dream world disappears in these dreams. Which I guess makes sense, because I don't have that attitude in my ordinary waking consciousness.... Instead, when these dreams come I always spend the entire thing just inspecting them in awe. Because it really is just like... as if you were there. Like, as if you were exactly as you are right now, except the location you were in was the lucid dream rather than the waking world. How could you do anything but marvel at it?
      That's awesome. It sounds like this was a huge one for you. It certainly would be for me. From the description, I'm becoming doubtful that I have had one at quite this level. (Or perhaps the ballpark of which you speak!)

      Tonight's menthol night, but I'm afraid that for this evening it just became "choline and menthol night".

      That's a good question, maybe we should try it and find out. I actually don't know all that much about how acetylcholine is stored either, but I'd love to know more, so give me a holler if you find anything cool!
      Yeah will do! The only reason I know that much is because I decided that I ought to know where the brain brews up acetylcholine and where it sticks it when not in use. This stuff's really a lot of fun to learn. Questions like this are nice, too, because they're not quite as bleeding edge as some of the stuff you run into researching specific substances where you've got maybe one research paper behind a paywall that can tell you what you need to know!

      Here's something you may or may not know, which may influence your research. Choline is metabolized by the enzyme choline acetyltransferase into acetylcholine, which is then metabolized by acetylcholinesterase... back into choline. Choline is metabolized into other things as well, so the amount of it used to restart this loop will get less each time, but it will continue. I can only imagine that has some kind of role to play in all of this.
      Yes! I'm also interested in what ultimately controls and determines the "resting level" of free choline in the brain. I mean, if I pop 5 grams of choline bitartrate (not recommended), free choline levels will eventually settle back to normal. But how rapidly do they do this? What are the mechanisms behind it? I have a lot of gaps to fill in there, and I think that the answers will help shed light on how a pre-bed protocol works.

      And very interesting tie-in to psychedelics! I'd love to know how this works too.

      I realized that I'd forgotten to ask you whether you were just using the L-theanine for its mellowing, mind-calming effect or if you had any separate lucid intentions for it. I really like L-theanine, particularly because of its safety and subtlety. Oh!! This reminds me of a whole other conversation about L-theanine and the interplay with REM that I didn't manage to respond to yet in another DJ entry! I need to find that one.
      Alyzarin likes this.
    10. Alyzarin's Avatar
      That's awesome. It sounds like this was a huge one for you. It certainly would be for me. From the description, I'm becoming doubtful that I have had one at quite this level. (Or perhaps the ballpark of which you speak!)

      Tonight's menthol night, but I'm afraid that for this evening it just became "choline and menthol night".
      It really was, this dream has made me think a lot already.... I'm sure you'll have a lucid like this soon enough, too. As long as you stick with it, it's only a matter of time. Particularly with all those supplements you keep in rotation!

      And good luck with tonight!

      Yes! I'm also interested in what ultimately controls and determines the "resting level" of free choline in the brain. I mean, if I pop 5 grams of choline bitartrate (not recommended), free choline levels will eventually settle back to normal. But how rapidly do they do this? What are the mechanisms behind it? I have a lot of gaps to fill in there, and I think that the answers will help shed light on how a pre-bed protocol works.
      That is a good question.... Maybe there comes a point where acetylcholine and choline levels become low enough that they are simply used to resynthesize each other without being used to create any other chemicals. This of course would be a very unhealthy point, and it's unlikely that anyone who gets a sufficient amount of food reaches this point. But it would be interesting if it worked this way... some kind of balance so that the body always has at least a miniscule amount of acetylcholine to run on. Probably not too unreasonable since acetylcholine is so fundamentally important, right?

      I realized that I'd forgotten to ask you whether you were just using the L-theanine for its mellowing, mind-calming effect or if you had any separate lucid intentions for it. I really like L-theanine, particularly because of its safety and subtlety. Oh!! This reminds me of a whole other conversation about L-theanine and the interplay with REM that I didn't manage to respond to yet in another DJ entry! I need to find that one.
      Haha, no worries, just get to it when you have the time. I'm really just using it for the mellowing effects, honestly. Lower anxiety and higher clarity is always nice, particularly with how I've been feeling lately. I'm interested in its dream effects too, but they're not really the reason I'm taking it. It is a great supplement, though.

      For the record, I am looking into other amino acids for dream purposes at the moment. I have a certain fondness for amino acids.... I'm interested in trying a few different ones to see what the result will be. I'm actually considering taking some L-arginine tonight, and one I'm really interested in just from researching tonight is acetyl-L-carnitine. That would be one to only take rarely by the way (though this likely bugs me much more than it will you), because it upregulates androgen receptors, leading to higher testosterone activity. Anything that effects sex hormone levels should be taken with care, but to be fair, that may also give it a nice chance for an increase in sexual dreams, too lol. But what I'm really liking is the fact that it increases brain levels of nerve growth factor, and as a result it enhances choline acetyltransferase activity in the hippocampus. Combining it with choline would force more of that dose to be made into acetylcholine, and I would imagine it would have some effects similar to combining choline with an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor like galantamine. The differences would be that any effects that may or may not come from other choline metabolites would be reduced, and the acetylcholinergic effect may be more pure since it lacks the effects of galantamine on nicotinic receptors. I have to wonder what it would be like taking choline with both of them too, but that would probably be like acetylcholine overload. Still, it's interesting to think about!
      CanisLucidus likes this.
      Updated 03-09-2013 at 03:02 PM by Alyzarin
    11. CanisLucidus's Avatar
      It really was, this dream has made me think a lot already.... I'm sure you'll have a lucid like this soon enough, too. As long as you stick with it, it's only a matter of time. Particularly with all those supplements you keep in rotation!

      And good luck with tonight!
      Thanks, I hope so! Gotta admit, I get excited almost every night that I try a supplement combo. And now you are filling my head with even more ideas, ha ha...

      Menthol night went okay, but I stayed up too late with Wife helping her make cookies for a baby shower she's throwing. (By "help" I mean run out to buy stuff she needs, constantly sample the ingredients, and remark that "these smell great!" =D) With early rising kiddos, total sleep was less than 6 hours... argh. There were a couple of sexy NLDs in the morning, but I just had nowhere near enough runway to have an LD.

      See? This is why I rotate in menthol 2x a week. Gotta have a backup night. =D

      Haha, no worries, just get to it when you have the time. I'm really just using it for the mellowing effects, honestly. Lower anxiety and higher clarity is always nice, particularly with how I've been feeling lately. I'm interested in its dream effects too, but they're not really the reason I'm taking it. It is a great supplement, though.
      Cool, makes sense to me. I hope that it's been doing the trick for you. What I like about the way L-theanine mellows is that it does it without hitting you like some kind of bear tranquilizer. The mind just quiets down, and the rest is left up to you. It's almost like something that just gently adjusts the volume knob on your inner dialogue.

      For the record, I am looking into other amino acids for dream purposes at the moment. I have a certain fondness for amino acids.... I'm interested in trying a few different ones to see what the result will be. I'm actually considering taking some L-arginine tonight, and one I'm really interested in just from researching tonight is acetyl-L-carnitine. That would be one to only take rarely by the way (though this likely bugs me much more than it will you), because it upregulates androgen receptors, leading to higher testosterone activity. Anything that effects sex hormone levels should be taken with care, but to be fair, that may also give it a nice chance for an increase in sexual dreams, too lol. But what I'm really liking is the fact that it increases brain levels of nerve growth factor, and as a result it enhances choline acetyltransferase activity in the hippocampus. Combining it with choline would force more of that dose to be made into acetylcholine, and I would imagine it would have some effects similar to combining choline with an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor like galantamine. The differences would be that any effects that may or may not come from other choline metabolites would be reduced, and the acetylcholinergic effect may be more pure since it lacks the effects of galantamine on nicotinic receptors. I have to wonder what it would be like taking choline with both of them too, but that would probably be like acetylcholine overload. Still, it's interesting to think about!
      I love it! You are always up to something. Very clever idea on the acetyl-L-carnitine. Is there a single fitness supplement you haven't managed to exploit for dream work?

      I totally hear you on anything that plays with sex hormones, though. And yeah, while a dude is probably less nervous about a potential test boost, this stuff is just fraught with danger. Honestly, if someone was going to play with sex hormones on any kind of regular basis, they'd have to be constantly performing blood tests to make sure that they weren't screwing themselves over in extremely unpleasant ways. The interplay between those hormones is really tricky... not easy waters to navigate.

      But like you said, just going way down on frequency (and presumably dosage) makes things a whole lot safer than they'd be otherwise.

      And you're right that combining w/ an AChE inhibitor like G or huperzine-A would likely have a crazy effect since you'd be boosting ACh levels through both AChE inhibition AND the high levels of ChAT. Frankly, I'm a little frightened at the thought. LOL. There's no way to predict what kind of desensitization effect that might have!

      Just when I assume I've heard about all your LD supplement ideas, you go rummaging around and drag out a whole new box of exotic herbs and bodybuilding supplements. I love all this thinking. You really get a lot of mileage out of your research.
    12. Alyzarin's Avatar
      Thanks, I hope so! Gotta admit, I get excited almost every night that I try a supplement combo. And now you are filling my head with even more ideas, ha ha...

      Menthol night went okay, but I stayed up too late with Wife helping her make cookies for a baby shower she's throwing. (By "help" I mean run out to buy stuff she needs, constantly sample the ingredients, and remark that "these smell great!" =D) With early rising kiddos, total sleep was less than 6 hours... argh. There were a couple of sexy NLDs in the morning, but I just had nowhere near enough runway to have an LD.

      See? This is why I rotate in menthol 2x a week. Gotta have a backup night. =D
      Haha, that is a good plan. Sounds like a busy night. =P And I don't blame you, I would probably be "helping" quite a bit myself!

      Cool, makes sense to me. I hope that it's been doing the trick for you. What I like about the way L-theanine mellows is that it does it without hitting you like some kind of bear tranquilizer. The mind just quiets down, and the rest is left up to you. It's almost like something that just gently adjusts the volume knob on your inner dialogue.
      Yeah, it's nice. And that's a good description, it kind of reminds me of smoking blue lotus. It's definitely been making me feel better overall, I feel less tense in general than I did before, and my headaches are getting less intense. I'll probably keep on using it for some time!

      I love it! You are always up to something. Very clever idea on the acetyl-L-carnitine. Is there a single fitness supplement you haven't managed to exploit for dream work?

      ...

      And you're right that combining w/ an AChE inhibitor like G or huperzine-A would likely have a crazy effect since you'd be boosting ACh levels through both AChE inhibition AND the high levels of ChAT. Frankly, I'm a little frightened at the thought. LOL. There's no way to predict what kind of desensitization effect that might have!

      Just when I assume I've heard about all your LD supplement ideas, you go rummaging around and drag out a whole new box of exotic herbs and bodybuilding supplements. I love all this thinking. You really get a lot of mileage out of your research.
      Not if I have anything to say about it there isn't. X) Like I said, fitness forums are a goldmine!

      Here's something interesting I've read since I made that post.... Galantamine, and many other acetylcholinesterase inhibitors, actually block the uptake of acetyl-L-carnitine and prevent it from passing through the blood-brain barrier! So if one did take them together, they would have to take the ALCAR first and give it enough time to absorb.... I'm thinking about doing it myself, but I'm not totally sure yet lol. The main thing I like about it is that an AChE inhibitor only keeps the choline as acetylcholine longer, but the ALCAR would actually then reduce the amount of time that choline is kept as acetylcholine once it gets there.... I can only imagine what kind of effect that could have! But it would definitely have to be done with care... and maybe with some atropine around just in case you start feeling a little poisoned.

      Heh heh heh heh.... I actually have lots of stored up ideas, some of which I've never mentioned on DV or anywhere else. :3 There are always new tools to experiment with. And thanks, I'll take that as a compliment! =D