Thread: Prospective Memory and Lucid Dreaming 2

In the first post on this subject (http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...-dreaming.html) I made what I suspect some might consider a rather outrageous claim:

EVERY TECHNIQUE THAT LEADS TO A GREATER PERCENTAGE OF SUCCESSFUL LUCID DREAMING WORKS BECAUSE IT IMPROVES OR MORE EFFECTIVELY UTILIZES PROSPECTIVE MEMORY.

While I may have engaged in a bit of hyperbole, I’ll present the science and theories that support that conclusion in this post.

First, a brief overview of the phases of the prospective memory cycle.

PHASE 1 – ENCODING
Encoding consists of determining what we wish to remember to do at some point in the future. At times we very deliberately begin a prospective memory cycle. At other times, we may set one with little attention to what we’re doing.

In everyday life:
“I will remember to stop at Safeway and buy cat food on the way home from school.”

In lucid dreaming:
“When I see a dream sign, I will remember to reality check.”

PHASE 2 - RETENTION
Once we’ve encoded a prospective “mission” it’s retained and lies dormant until activated.

PHASE 3- RETRIEVAL
The prospective “mission” can be triggered by the appearance of a “cue.”

In the case of “I will remember to stop at Safeway and buy cat food on the way home from school.” the cue might be seeing the Safeway store on the way home. Time can also serve as a cue, so that the time frame of driving home from school can also serve as a cue.

In the case of “When I next see a dream sign, I will remember to reality check.” the obvious cue would be the dream sign.

PHASE 4 – EXECUTION
Once retrieval is triggered, the prospective memory mission enters our awareness, and we act upon it accordingly.

Now let’s see how various LDing techniques lead to an improvement in, or a more effective utilization of prospective memory.

MEDITATION
In one study, researchers set out to determine what effect the nature of the cue, what they called “valence”, had to do with prospective memory success rates.

They devised a series of experiments in which they asked test subjects to hit a particular key the first time they came across a particular word or phrase over the course of the experiment. They devised two sets of cues for the experiment, “positive cues” and “negative cues.” An example of a positive cue would be “smiling baby.” An example of a negative cue would be “dead baby.”

They found that the prospective memory cycle was substantially more likely to run its full course when the valence of the cue was positive, rather than negative. This seemed logical in that positive cues would be more likely to attract awareness than negative cues.

Looking further, the researchers designed another experiment with three sets of cues… positive, negative, and neutral… “smiling baby”, “dead baby”, “toaster”… for example.

The expectation was that the success rate for the neutral cues would fall between the success rates of the positive and negative cues. However this was not the case. In fact, the neutral cues resulted in a success rate substantially higher than that of the positive cues!

This unexpected outcome led to further research that eventually explained the phenomenon. They learned that the retrieval and execution phases of prospective memory were dependent upon available awareness resources or what I’ll refer to as simply “attention units.”

The reason neutral cues produced a higher success rate was because both negative and positive cues acted as a drain on processing power by sucking up attention units. In other words a certain amount of analytical power became tied up in both positive and negative cues for the simple reason that they were positive or negative.

The conclusions I drew from these experiments with respect to lucid dreaming were firstly that prospective memory function is very sensitive to changes in available "attention units" and secondly that a certain level of available attention is required for prospective memory to function at all. Thus anything that increases or frees up attention can potentially increase the chances of prospective memory triggering lucidity. Anything that decreases attention units lessens the chances for success.

This explains why meditation improves ones LDing success rate. After a hard day at school or in the workplace, our attention units are dispersed in many different directions... at times it's as if we're scattered over the entire universe. Every thought and emotion that runs through our head is sucking up attention units.

Effective meditation techniques allow us to retrieve and consolidate awareness units, thus making them available for use by prospective memory. Given the resulting higher success rate for prospective memory, a higher success rate for lucid dreaming logically follows.

AWARENESS EXERCISES
Awareness exercises also increase the analytical resources required by prospective memory, but do so by way of a different mechanism.

Awareness is largely a function of demand… meaning we go through life with only enough awareness turned on to manage the tasks immediately at hand. However, there are dormant attention units in reserve that can be called upon as needed, for example, when we’re taking a test or faced with an emergency. We’ve all experienced this phenomenon.

Awareness exercises aid prospective memory function because the exercise itself demands that more attention units become active, and as noted earlier, increasing available attention has a positive effect on prospective memory, and hence a positive effect on LDing success rates.


DRUGS AND SUPPLEMENTS

Drugs such as galantamine and certain supplements work by artificially causing more attention units to become available, and so prospective memory is markedly improved. leading to higher LD success rates.

Caffeine and other stimulants would also work, but because they stimulate the entire central nervous system, not just the brain, they’re of little use in LDing.

NIGHTMARES

As many of you know from first-hand experience, nightmares can lead to lucidity. I would argue that on the first appearance of a particular nightmare that’s not likely. But upon waking up from a nightmare a second or third time, the immediate thought becomes, “next time I have that nightmare I’ve got to realize it’s just a dream!” Because of the circumstances, that intention creates a powerful prospective memory encoding. The next time that dream occurs, adrenalin cranks up the available attention units, the nightmare content acts as a cue, and the prospective memory plays out, which leads to the child becoming lucid. (… after which we do whatever we can to remedy the dream situation. My solution was to wake myself up by jumping out the second story bathroom window. )


MARIJUANA

This theory also explains why smoking weed inhibits LDing success. Simply put, pot and similar drugs create their effect by dispersing attention into a pleasant haze. Thus the resources required for prospective memory become unavailable.


SSLD

SSLD is a double threat. Besides being an effective awareness exercise, it further enhances LD success rates by another interesting mechanism.

Experiments have shown that the elapsed time between the encoding phase and the retrieval phase of the prospective memory cycle has an adverse effect on success rates. In other words the longer the time between encoding and the appearance of the cue, the less likelihood of success.

This effect wouldn’t matter that much were the decrease in success rates over time a linear affair, but that’s not the case. Various experiments have shown that very rapid drop offs of prospective memory success rates occur in the first hour between encoding and retrieval.

SSLD, like all DILD techniques relies heavily on prospective memory. Repeating the SSLD cycles is itself a form of encoding prospective memory in that the intention of the act is to remember to wake up in a dream. If the exercise is continued to the very edge of sleep, than the interval between encoding and retrieval is rather short… to the benefit of prospective memory. (Yes, I know SSLD can also be looked at as a WILD techinique.)

WBTB

Obviously the fact WBTB allows us to take advantage of longer, more frequent REM periods has a huge effect on LD success rates, but it also benefits prospective memory by way of shorter time periods between encoding and retrieval.

MANTRAS

Mantras can lead to effective prospective memory encoding, but I think it’s not so much the repetition that works as the fact that in repeating a mantra the encoding resets closer and closer, time-wise, to retrieval. I strongly suspect that saying a Mantra once, just before falling asleep would be at least as effective, and possibly more effective than repeating it over and over, After a certain point mantras tend to go on automatic, which would probably serve to muddle the desired prospective memory encoding.

DREAM SEX

This also explains why inducing a lucid sex dream can be so hard. Horniness sucks up attention units like a sponge sucking up water, essentially turning off prospective memory altoghether... which is probably why I forgot I had a dental appointment the day I spent that afternoon with Shirley Robbinsion.


About now you might be thinking that this prospective memory stuff is interesting, but since you don’t use a prospective memory approach to LDing it hasn’t got a lot to do with you. I would argue otherwise.

With any LDing technique, just the action of lying down in bed with the intention to have a lucid dream activates prospective memory. You are in effect encoding, “I will fall asleep, dream, and become aware I’m dreaming.” It doesn’t matter whether you voiced the thought or not. Given ideal conditions for prospective memory function, that alone, with NO OVERT TECHNIQUE WHATEVER OR ANY TECHNIQUE AT ALL is capable of producing a lucid dreaming experience. The first time I experienced this phenomenon and had an incredible WILD experience, I posted about it to Sageous’s WILD thread. He recognized what had happened immediately and commented that technique had little or nothing to do with the success. I kind of got it then, but now I think I really got it.

Consider this…
What if the conclusions I’ve drawn so far on this subject are right… or even half right?
What if our LDing successes come about mostly when we accidentally harness the power of our prospective memories?
What might happen to our LDing success rates if we learned to knowingly and expertly use our prospective memory to induce lucidity?

It could be another day or two before I’m ready to upload the updated MILD technique I’ve been experimenting with, but I promise I’ll put it up as soon as I can.

Niall

"Yes, but..."

Dreaming is so unlike anything else, any mental or physical activity that we do. In just about any waking field endeavor, there are available concrete, short-term stimulus-response feedback results. Not so, dreaming. Not to mention direct third party (expert, coach) guidance. The delay (weeks, months) between adjustments made to practice and dream results can make it really really hard to identify what in fact works better for you and what doesn't.

About all we really know for non-naturals to reach high levels of LD ability is that if you pursue the fundamentals (expectation, intention, memory, self-awareness, recall, sleep hygiene) without giving up, believing you can do it, you will get better and better at LDing. And I think that's probably about all we can say definitively, everything else is basically guess work.

Also, given the almost overwhelming effect that expectation has on dreaming results, it's also hard to weed out "placebo" effect. LDing in fact is pretty much ALL ABOUT placebo (expectation)! If you believe, sincerely and deeply, that flipping a coin all day long (or insert your chosen silly activity) will result in frequent lucid dreaming, you very likely *will* lucid dream a lot!

So my personal take on LaBerge's "proof" of prospective memory's effect on MILD is this:

I believe that LaBerge found a framework for understanding lucid dreaming induction that made sense to him. (It makes sense to me, too, but I don't know if it's a correct and right conclusion. And we may never know!). If one could in fact in dreams "remember to recognize that you're dreaming", that seems a valid way to explain lucidity. It made sense to him, so he believed it thoroughly and deeply. He was motivated to show results for his research. He set goals. He practiced consistently, and he got eventually increasing frequency of LDs.

So what part of that mix *really* did it? Prospective memory? Expectation? Goal setting and motivation? Intention? Consistent practice? Attitude? Or is it a nebulous mixture of *all* of them?

In my own practice, I've had the most dense LD occurrences when I was highly motivated in the DV competitions. Far far outside my non-competition frequency (two months of LDs packed into in a week and a half, happened in *both* competitions I've participated in!). That can't be coincidence, as others experience vastly elevated frequency in the competitions as well. And in both competitions, and in fact after about the first 2 months of LD practice, I was doing basically zero PM exercises, but I was doing a great deal of elevated awareness work through most of the day. I was thinking about LDing all day long. And after the conclusion of the competitions, my LDs drop immediately back to non-competition levels (or actually stop entirely for multiple weeks (twice now!)).

So, I don't want to say "PM isn't the reason!", because 1) I can't say it with certainty, and 2) I don't want to mess up your expectation. Maybe it is! And if it works for you, more power to you, keep it up, and you should get to multiple LDs per night consistently very soon!

Originally Posted by FryingMan

In my own practice, I've had the most dense LD occurrences when I was highly motivated in the DV competitions. Far far outside my non-competition frequency (two months of LDs packed into in a week and a half, happened in *both* competitions I've participated in!). That can't be coincidence, as others experience vastly elevated frequency in the competitions as well.]

There's a reason for this, and it has to do with an element of prospective memory theory.

The urgency or importance factor of the event is a major factor in determining the success rate of prospective memory. Researchers have codified the various stages of importance as "wish", "want", "must", "aught", and "will." At the higher end of the scale, when a test subject considered the event extremely important, the encoding would be the equivalent of "I will remember to recognize when I'm dreaming." This would produce a much higher success rate than, for instance the bottom of the scale where the event wasn't considered important and the encoding worked out to; "I wish to remember to recognize when I'm dreaming." Note that these are not mantras, but rather a way of describing the effect the considered importance of the event has on prospective memory encoding.

LaBerge noticed this importance effect when his LDing attempts in the sleep lab resulted in far more successes than his attempts at home. However he did recognize it had to do with the importance if the event, but didn't get the connection to PM encoding.

I was doing basically zero PM exercises, but I was doing a great deal of elevated awareness work through most of the day.

Elevated awareness drills are effectively PM exercises. They have a major impact on PM functionality.

I'm quite aware of the role expectations play in lucid dreaming success rates. In my opinion this is more than likely because expectations majorly influence prospective memory.

Originally Posted by Nailler

I'm quite aware of the role expectations play in lucid dreaming success rates. In my opinion this is more than likely because expectations majorly influence prospective memory.

"When all you have is a hammer, all the world starts to look like nails" (pun unintended but I'm leaving it in, Nailler).

I independently reached the conclusion that PM exercises work because of the increased awareness that they entail. So round and round we go. Frankly I don't care, I just want the LDs.

p.s. I'd like to see the promised improved MILD (did I miss it?) Is it to incubate your dreamsigns? I thought of that, too, before, and had some success with it but have not continued it for some reason.

p.p.s. So like LaBerge, you've found a "framing" that makes sense to you, so you're looking to explain the universe of LDing with PM as the first cause. My point is that there are a *number* of interacting causes, and trying to define one in terms of the others leads to circular reasoning. But in the end it's all just opinions. But hey I'll be happy to jump on the PM bandwagon if I can get lucid all night every night.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

"When all you have is a hammer, all the world starts to look like nails" (pun unintended but I'm leaving it in, Nailler)

Love it, Frying man!

Funny you brought up that idea because I found myself wrestling with that very possibility, although not that elegantly expressed, just this morning. On the other hand, what made this particular brainstorm so different and exciting for me was that it seemed to answer so many unanswered questions I had on the subject without drawing a particularly long bow.

I was quite surprised by how much new information I found on the subject that was directly applicable to LDing, but as far as I could tell, appeared nowhere in the popular books on the subject.

p.s. I'd like to see the promised improved MILD (did I miss it?)

I've got one more setup post I want to write before I put up the details of the actual technique. It may be presumptuous of me, but what I'm really trying to do is update LaBerge's approach by applying what we've since learned about prospective memory. With that in mind, the next post will explore the strengths and weaknesses of the good doc's original MILD, which of course is entirely a prospective memory technique, in the light of new discoveries by researchers in other fields.

But hey I'll be happy to jump on the PM bandwagon if I can get lucid all night every night.

You really are a greedy SOB, FlyingMan!

I'll be happy if the approach that came out of this works most of the time for most of the folk who give it a try.

Originally Posted by Nailler

Elevated awareness drills are effectively PM exercises. They have a major impact on PM functionality.

Though I don't talk about PM in my approach, many people have observed that (so far) they seem to be types of awareness drills. In all of them, you could say that the goal is to free more attention units. In a lucid dream, we have lots of free attention units, and I would say that in enlightenment, our attention units are in a similar state. Later exercises begin exploring what's really occupying all of our attention, and how to get that back. Day 7 is basically a shortcut to instant attention. I'll have to think about how all this ties in to PM now, but I have a feeling we're headed in similar directions. Intriguing stuff.

Originally Posted by cvdmehden

In a lucid dream, we have lots of free attention units,

I'm not surely I understand why that is... yet. My assumption is that the difference in available attention between awake and sleeping is night and day. If as I wrote earlier, awareness is primarily a function of demand, then it follows that far less attention units are "demanded" by the "I" in sleeping state than in the waking state. As best I can figure, when we become lucid, the waking demand for attention units comes into play and it's like supercharging an engine. Thus the extremely vivid reality that so often accompanies the fully lucid state.

A question I have that is yet unanswered, which falls under the heading "awareness exercises" is whether or not awareness is basically an analog or binary function. For me in waking life it seems to be binary...two speeds. I think that makes sense from a biological point of view when we look at how the body just dumps insulin and adrenalin into the bloodstream. It's just SPLAT rather than measured response. If brain chemistry is similar in function it's a pretty safe bet that awareness is a binary function.

I'm finding your approach interesting as the goal seems to be continuous "turned on" awareness, which I'm certain would also boost prospective memory capabilities... to a point. I can't help but wonder if there's a downside to that kind of a constant enhanced mental state.

Makes sense, Nailler!

EVERY TECHNIQUE THAT LEADS TO A GREATER PERCENTAGE OF SUCCESSFUL LUCID DREAMING WORKS BECAUSE IT IMPROVES OR MORE EFFECTIVELY UTILIZES PROSPECTIVE MEMORY.

Yes, exactly! This is what lucid dreaming induction is all about.
Do you know what is the the biggest reducer of prospective memory (attention, awareness or what ever you call it) ? DEEP SLEEP

Short deep sleep occurs even in the late morning which is quite problem. Motivation is reducing (incerasing ''PM levels'') this deep sleep impact.

Drugs such as galantamine and certain supplements work by artificially causing more attention units to become available, and so prospective memory is markedly improved. leading to higher LD success rates.

Galantamine increases my lucid chance by 80% thanks to PM boost by acetylcholine level (my hypothesis) *DILD*

Caffeine and other stimulants would also work, but because they stimulate the entire central nervous system, not just the brain, they’re of little use in LDing.

I experiment with caffeine mixed with galantamine (33mg of caffeine) When you take caffeine during the wbtb, return to the bed and manage to fall sleep, you don't go through the deep sleep phase. Not even a short one! I did wild this way with no intention at all - just because there wasn't PM reducer - deep sleep. It just kick my ass right into lucid dream with no ''wild technique'' such as visualization, finger moving, counting and so on.

Originally Posted by Nfri

Galantamine increases my lucid chance by 80% thanks to PM boost by acetylcholine level (my hypothesis) *DILD*

That's quite remarkable!

My assumption is that awareness exercises also alter brain chemistry. I wonder if any studies have been done that somehow measured the changes in brain chemistry that occur as a result of awareness exercises.

The caffeine thing sounds brilliant, but I'm afraid that for me it would be a recipe for inducing insomnia rather than dreams.

I

Originally Posted by Nailler

That's quite remarkable!

My assumption is that awareness exercises also alter brain chemistry. I wonder if any studies have been done that somehow measured the changes in brain chemistry that occur as a result of awareness exercises.

I doubt that there are some studies on the matter but it would be cool and explain a lot. I think that thinking or awareness exercises are surely changing brain chemistry. IT HAS TO!

The caffeine thing sounds brilliant, but I'm afraid that for me it would be a recipe for inducing insomnia rather than dreams.

Don't have prejudices and fear. When caffeine is used with L-theanin (15 minutes before caffeine) it is possible to fall asleep again. I recommend 100ml of monster energy or less taken with galantamine and choline. There are lots of B's too

Originally Posted by Nailler

Given ideal conditions for prospective memory function, that alone, with NO OVERT TECHNIQUE WHATEVER OR ANY TECHNIQUE AT ALL is capable of producing a lucid dreaming experience.

^^I may have experienced something like this on one occasion. I attempted to do a variation of MILD. I first did a short WBTB, and then returned to sleep while setting my mind to remember to realize I was dreaming. At the same time, I visualized it happening and on some level, I expected it to work. Soon after, I was in a dream and fully realized it without question. I did not set my mind to notice cues or anything, I just remembered my intention and realized I was dreaming.

I’m not fully sure how or why it worked, but I figure that if you can induce a lucid dream like this, even by accident, then it must be possible to create a practical, workable technique from it.

I look forward to seeing your updated MILD technique!

I got this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...m-06-00018.pdf .. Gem from someone on this Forum. I still owe her something to return te favor. Haven't read it yet but it is chockfull of good info.

I can aid in little snippets of brain Chemistry. I have a few pieces of knowledge that are not so widely known.
Cvd's exercise (day 1) and the Locus Coreuleus (I never do remembr how to spell the damn thing) are intimately involved. In my opinion! Also, the Locus Coruleus is so deep in the brain it is almost impossible to investigate it with EEG or something. But I suspect it is crucial for memory formation. It does so by release of Adrenaline in the brain. From what I have been taught, it is activated when you for example are *shocked* by a sudden noise. It triggers all these responses to produce a high-level consciousness/awareness.
^ Theory by D. Nicholls . He also mentions that this part of the brain is normaly turned OFF during sleep. We should test if this is also the case in lucid dreams. Again.. Deep brain region. I do not think we can easily study this.

Vasopressin has been reported to also induce VIVID memories. Weird molecule involved in Urination. Male version of Oxytocin from what I understand.

Also, Synthetic Galantamine vs Natural Galantamine.. I have had prescribtion Galantamine and they either kept me awake or did nothing. Grr.

Sorry go off on a tangent , Nailer. Hope you don't mind. You certainly inspired me to work harder on dream theory. Have a damn test tomorrow tho. And don't worry about the neurobiology too much. We will figure this out later. I think u are really on to something! (and i like to help )

Originally Posted by Dthoughts

I got this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...m-06-00018.pdf .. Gem from someone on this Forum.

Thanks for the link!

You're welcome !

Got it from kilham.

I guess we could conclude from that link that Mindfulness meditation increases the amount of Attention units available to spend in prospective memory.

http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...ml#post2096107