Thread: Running out of ideas

Hello everyone, first off happy new year (though it may be a bit late).

Quick list of abbreviations for those that aren't that familiar with them yet

WILD: Wake Induced Lucid Dream
DILD: Dream Induced Lucid Dream
DEILD: Dream Exit Induced Lucid Dream
SSILD: Senses Initiated Lucid Dream
ADA: All Day Awareness

Okay so far I have around 22 LD's after 2 years of constant "go for it, stop for a while, go for it, stop for a while" and a year of actual training (mostly in dream recall though).

I've tried the following:

Reality checks: Worked out somewhat, wasn't all that worth it though)
WILD: Did not work at all
DEILD: Did not work at all, mostly because I tend to instantly fall asleep whatever I do when I wake up during the night
SSILD: Did not work for me after trying for more than a month
ADA: Never managed to keep it up for long, but ever since trying it I've had random LD's every now and again

So in reality, only DILDs have ever done anything for me and even then I just haven't had any good results from ADA for the effort I put into it. I was wondering if anybody out there is struggling like me and if people have suggestions. Whatever the outcome though I plan to keep going until I grow too old to remember anything at all .

Thanks in advance!

Consistency. Most of us do dream work every day, whether it be DJing, daily awareness, WILD attempts--whatever. If you take long breaks in between bouts of interest, you aren't giving time for the practices to become a lifestyle.

Try this: Puffin's DILD Guide - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Good luck. I would also recommend starting a workbook in the DILD class. FryingMan and fogelbise are awesome teachers.

Originally Posted by ThreeCat

Consistency. Most of us do dream work every day, whether it be DJing, daily awareness, WILD attempts--whatever. If you take long breaks in between bouts of interest, you aren't giving time for the practices to become a lifestyle.

Try this: Puffin's DILD Guide - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Good luck. I would also recommend starting a workbook in the DILD class. FryingMan and fogelbise are awesome teachers.

Thanks for the advice, but when you speak of consistency, do you mean that even times when life gets stressful (aka exams for students or busy days for people at work) you don't drop LDing for a while? I always figured that during these times my dream recall would be too shitty and I'd be better off focusing on the important stuff. Unfortunately I've had too many of these since I'm a student so I had to drop LDing too many times.

So far, however, I have maintained a reasonable degree of focus of LDing over the past year and I'm noticing increasing results in dream recall compared to before but no actual increase in lucid dream frequency.

Originally Posted by Aziq

Thanks for the advice, but when you speak of consistency, do you mean that even times when life gets stressful (aka exams for students or busy days for people at work) you don't drop LDing for a while? I always figured that during these times my dream recall would be too shitty and I'd be better off focusing on the important stuff. Unfortunately I've had too many of these since I'm a student so I had to drop LDing too many times.

So far, however, I have maintained a reasonable degree of focus of LDing over the past year and I'm noticing increasing results in dream recall compared to before but no actual increase in lucid dream frequency.

Yes, I mean not dropping the practice entirely. The same can be said for any practice. If you want to be a skilled lucid dreamer, but only practice when free time appears, you will never be very good (barring innate ability). On the other hand, if you sincerely make an effort to maintain a maintenance level of awareness and reality checks, as well as performing autosuggestion for a few minutes before bed, you'll be able to pick up where you left off once time allows. Otherwise you will spend all of your free time just getting back to baseline.

Lucid dreaming is almost entirely practice-based. Theory is nice, but at some point it has to be put into action. The DILD class is mostly practice, but you have skilled LDers to help you along the way. Check out some of the workbooks:

http://www.dreamviews.com/dild/15493...-workbook.html

http://www.dreamviews.com/dild/14763...-workbook.html

Good luck.

Originally Posted by ThreeCat

would also recommend starting a workbook in the DILD class. FryingMan and fogelbise are awesome teachers.

^^^ THIS!!

What's the workbook in the DILD class all about exactly? If it's theory I'm all up there but the actual techniques just don't seem to do it for me.

Originally Posted by Aziq

What's the workbook in the DILD class all about exactly? If it's theory I'm all up there but the actual techniques just don't seem to do it for me.

On the contrary, you're probably thinking about LDing in the wrong way, which is preventing you from taking effective action.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

On the contrary, you're probably thinking about LDing in the wrong way, which is preventing you from taking effective action.

Well, LDing in general is not my profession, but rather a spare-time activity. Therefore I have to accept what others bring forth in terms of theory, of which I have read plenty. Could you explain in greater detail what you mean? If I really do think about LDing in the wrong way I'd like to adjust that.

hmmm... You actually got 2 wrong.

WILD: Wake Initiated Lucid Dream
DILD: Dream Initiated Lucid Dream

There are only two methods for a lucid dream, but there are unlimited techniques. The best technique that I have found as a base is:
http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...technique.html

Here is a podcast I made about finding your own path.
http://www.dreamviews.com/dreamviews...ml#post2138603

Here is a good thread about the essentials about LDing:
http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...cid-dream.html

Originally Posted by Sensei

hmmm... You actually got 2 wrong.

WILD: Wake Initiated Lucid Dream
DILD: Dream Initiated Lucid Dream

There are only two methods for a lucid dream, but there are unlimited techniques. The best technique that I have found as a base is:
http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...technique.html

Here is a podcast I made about finding your own path.
http://www.dreamviews.com/dreamviews...ml#post2138603

Here is a good thread about the essentials about LDing:
http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...cid-dream.html

My bad, it's been a while since I actually heard the full term but I'm convinced it comes down to the same thing.

Thanks for the links, I'll have a good read through them.

I may have the wrong end of the stick, but from your posts it seems like you believe that it is the techniques that get you lucid when they are only vehicles for the fundamentals, awareness and memory. How much time are you spending each day working on awareness and dream memory?

I am well aware what actually matters but I do not see how those lack for me because I spend the walking part of my travels (which equals about 15 minutes) and whenever I remember to do so and I have time for it while working being mindful and aware. I'm not ultra-aware as to noticing each and every single detail around me but aware enough to check for the dream feeling and reality checks and noticing things I did not notice before. I also do not spend a set amount of time being aware/mindful, so it varies from day to day.

Originally Posted by Aziq

Quick list of abbreviations for those that aren't that familiar with them yet

WILD: Wake Induced Lucid Dream
DILD: Dream Induced Lucid Dream

Originally Posted by Sensei

hmmm... You actually got 2 wrong.

WILD: Wake Initiated Lucid Dream
DILD: Dream Initiated Lucid Dream

Surely these are valid variants. "Induced" means "bring about or give rise to" and "initiated" means "cause (a process or action) to begin." I'm just using Google's definitions since I'm not at home and don't have access to my OED, but they seem sufficiently synonymous. The acronyms work out the same, so there doesn't seem any reason to quibble about the specific verb in play, so long as everyone understands what is meant.

Use my MTGTLD (Mantra Thought Guide To Lucid Dreaming)

Originally Posted by blazingnyancat

Use my MTGTLD (Mantra Thought Guide To Lucid Dreaming)

Can you send me a link?

escape the cycle of thinking where you believe a random technique will make you lucid. Practice the fundamentals, only you make you lucid.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

escape the cycle of thinking where you believe a random technique will make you lucid. Practice the fundamentals, only you make you lucid.

Thanks, I'll be sure to watch the video.

Fryingman, how exactly did you change after watching the video? You say after having only minor LDs in a month you went to multiple LDs in 3 days but what changed you to cause that?
I've always worked on dream recall, because I am indeed aware that dream recall can always improve and theres no reason to stop and be satisfied at 1 dream per day or so. WBTB isn't really my thing though because WILDs just don't work for me. I do enjoy waking up in the middle of the night, realizing I still have 4 hours until I need to get up and just relax and recall any recent dreams. As for excitement, as mentioned above I kinda lost my excitement but I believe there's still a thread floating around where people share their ideas of goals in LDs, might have a look through that too.

Thanks, both of you I really do appreciate the help you offer and the time you spend helping me out.

^^ Watch this video. I had only a few minor LDs in December, and after watching this video I've had 2 LDs in 3 days (one TOTM-worthy, and one short KILD today). It's messaqe is really important. It's all up to YOU. You don't need more TTTs! (tips/tricks/techniques).

If you've been studying LDing for any amount of time, you almost 100% know all you need to know already.

+ always build more dream recall, always, you never have enough

+ learn how to relax/ fall asleep upon demand

+ daytime awareness work

+ WBTB, learn to love it (notice wakings during the night)

+ be excited! Know that every night is another opportunity to recall more awesome dreams and to get lucid!

The main help is to realize where I need to place my faith: in myself! Not in searching out yet another tip/trick/technique. And to keep that excitement going.

WBTB is *not* just for WILD! With WBTB you can reinforce your goals, re-set your intentions to get lucid, and bring more waking awareness back into the dream state than if you had just slept right on through until morning. The great majority of the WBTBers that I know are 95%+ DILDers.

I, too, am not a fan of being awake at night. In fact I blew 1/2 a night of sleep just last night after not being able to get back to sleep on a WBTB. OK, so, that's a data point, I'll stay up less time next time. Micro-WBTB s are probably the right thing for me but I'm trying to find the balance.

But looking back at the times I had the most LDs, it was when I had a high level of excitement and confidence, and yes, spending time awake during the night.

I'm not sure if most of my LDs were when I was most excited in LDing but I know for sure that they were most fun when when I was most excited. The LDs I've had recently have been rather dull. Being in a dream and suddenly realizing I was dreaming felt like how christmas morning felt when I was a kid. Nowadays they just give me a short feeling of proudness but that's kinda all there is to it.

So technically, WBTB entails the whole concept of waking up and doing stuff related to LD and then going back to sleep? I always kinda thought it specifically meant the act of waking up, spending some time, going back to bed and WILDing. Perhaps it's a bit of an outdated definition or I just missed out on it somehow. What do you usually do when you WBTB then?

Originally Posted by Aziq

I don't know why or how, but the last 5 to 8 LD's I remember I didn't feel a shred of excitement when I became lucid. Nor did I try anything amazing or w/e I just kinda accepted that I was dreaming and shortly afterwards woke up or lost lucidity. I don't understand where my excitement went, it just dissapeared over time or something.

Originally Posted by Aziq

I'm not sure if most of my LDs were when I was most excited in LDing but I know for sure that they were most fun when when I was most excited. The LDs I've had recently have been rather dull. Being in a dream and suddenly realizing I was dreaming felt like how christmas morning felt when I was a kid. Nowadays they just give me a short feeling of proudness but that's kinda all there is to it.

I've been facing similar obstacles—and if I'm honest with myself it pertains as much to waking life as to dreaming. I love your description of how lucid dreams used to feel like "christmas morning when I was a kid." I remember that feeling—in relation to both dreams and Christmas!—but it's been getting harder to capture and maintain in both cases. This last Christmas was almost dispiriting, I was so not into it.

In my case, I'm aware that my biggest problem is that I become blasé about things very rapidly, whether they're good or bad. In the past this has manifested in absurd situations like getting used to showering in cold water for over six months before deciding, "Hmm, maybe I'd better get around to calling someone in to look at the water heater." Another aspect of this is a natural tendency toward emotional equanimity and a distrust (bordering on dislike) of strong feelings, again whether good or bad. I am one of the most low-drama people you're ever likely to meet. On the other hand, the near-constant sense of emotional neutrality—frequently interrupted by minor aggravations—that characterizes my life and most of my dreams is not particularly admirable or enjoyable either. Actually, one of the tasks I've set for myself is to try to cultivate various emotional resonances in the dream state, but I almost never remember to do that one!

I'm convinced that the solution is plainly apparent: the cultivation of "beginner's mind," a sense of freshness and enthusiasm, toward waking life no less than toward dream. But this is one of those things that is easier said than done, especially when one's motivations to do so are already impeded by a thick shell of blandness and cynicism! And the nature of cynicism is to resent itself but to resent the prospect of freshness and enthusiasm even more...

Verre, while I agree on the solution, I don't think we'll ever truly regain our initial level of excitement and curiosity. Nonetheless, we can certainly get damn close to that and we can remind ourselves of why it is why want to have LDs.

For instance, there's been a thread floating around for 4 and a half years now in which people share their ideas of what to do in LDs. A quick 15 minute look through that rewarded me with a list of my own of 30 things I would like to do in LDs. This in and of itself felt great to me because I had forgotten that LDs offer (near) limitless control of everything, and I had kinda forgotten about my goals but instead just focused on basic stuff such as flying or whatever. As a result, my dream recall skyrocketed and that gave me a boost of confidence I could do this.

Originally Posted by Aziq

Verre, while I agree on the solution, I don't think we'll ever truly regain our initial level of excitement and curiosity. Nonetheless, we can certainly get damn close to that and we can remind ourselves of why it is why want to have LDs.

For instance, there's been a thread floating around for 4 and a half years now in which people share their ideas of what to do in LDs. A quick 15 minute look through that rewarded me with a list of my own of 30 things I would like to do in LDs. This in and of itself felt great to me because I had forgotten that LDs offer (near) limitless control of everything, and I had kinda forgotten about my goals but instead just focused on basic stuff such as flying or whatever. As a result, my dream recall skyrocketed and that gave me a boost of confidence I could do this.

I think you're definitely right that planning tasks and experiments is a huge boost to the likelihood of getting lucid. But by a couple years into my lucid practice, mine were multiplying to the point where I so many ideas swimming around in my head that it got harder all the time to focus or decide on a particular one! That's why I love this site. The aspect I've found most helpful to my dream practice is the sense of community and shared goals fostered by the TOTMs and TOTYs, and the fact that they eventually expire is a great motivating factor to getting lucid and getting them done within the right time frame!

Originally Posted by FryingMan

I, too, am not a fan of being awake at night. In fact I blew 1/2 a night of sleep just last night after not being able to get back to sleep on a WBTB.

This is a bit off-topic but I used to have insomnia quite often especially from trying to LD and I think the main reason is feeling tension, physical or mental (usually linked together). It's also really normal for most people to not even realise how tense they are, I didn't realise it until I started doing Tai Chi (which emphasises relaxation for martial art, note: relaxed doesn't mean limp) and then it took some time before I started feeling all the tensed up areas of my body, in other words it took developing some body awareness and correct movement.

Anyway my point is try to loosen up physically and you might be surprised how quickly it fixes insomnia. I'm not saying to do Tai Chi (you would need to find a good teacher, too many money grubbing phonies around, same with yoga unfortunately, if you come across a real expert you should consider yourself extremely lucky though) but a couple of things you could do would be:

- Hot bath.

- If you can get into a proper meditation posture, like half-lotus (I still can't do full-lotus, actually even half-lotus kills me after 10 minutes) but regardless it's infinitely more relaxing to do a proper poster on a hard floor even if it's only for 5-10 minutes than on a chair in my experience. Don't force anything and you should never, ever feel pressure in your knees.

- Do Zhan Zhuang!



Zhan Zhuang is martial art standing practice (most commonly seen as horse stance in movies where the master forces the student to stand for hours to build up leg strength, but the stances vary) and it builds body awareness, relaxation and also strength. No need to worry about the strength part but removing that body tension is really important, so if you can't get to sleep try standing for 20 minutes and concentrate on releasing tension wherever you feel it. I almost guarantee if you do Zhan Zhuang every day (gasp!) for at least 10 minutes after some time you won't even remember what insomnia is.


Now back to our regular broadcast.

Originally Posted by Memm

This is a bit off-topic but I used to have insomnia quite often especially from trying to LD and I think the main reason is feeling tension, physical or mental (usually linked together). It's also really normal for most people to not even realise how tense they are, I didn't realise it until I started doing Tai Chi (which emphasises relaxation for martial art, note: relaxed doesn't mean limp) and then it took some time before I started feeling all the tensed up areas of my body, in other words it took developing some body awareness and correct movement.

Anyway my point is try to loosen up physically and you might be surprised how quickly it fixes insomnia. I'm not saying to do Tai Chi (you would need to find a good teacher, too many money grubbing phonies around, same with yoga unfortunately, if you come across a real expert you should consider yourself extremely lucky though) but a couple of things you could do would be:

- Hot bath.

- If you can get into a proper meditation posture, like half-lotus (I still can't do full-lotus, actually even half-lotus kills me after 10 minutes) but regardless it's infinitely more relaxing to do a proper poster on a hard floor even if it's only for 5-10 minutes than on a chair in my experience. Don't force anything and you should never, ever feel pressure in your knees.

- Do Zhan Zhuang!



Zhan Zhuang is martial art standing practice (most commonly seen as horse stance in movies where the master forces the student to stand for hours to build up leg strength, but the stances vary) and it builds body awareness, relaxation and also strength. No need to worry about the strength part but removing that body tension is really important, so if you can't get to sleep try standing for 20 minutes and concentrate on releasing tension wherever you feel it. I almost guarantee if you do Zhan Zhuang every day (gasp!) for at least 10 minutes after some time you won't even remember what insomnia is.


Now back to our regular broadcast.

Getting back to sleep is *never* off topic on this board in my book! My issue is not bed-time insomnia, but WBTB time, especially after strong intention setting and MILD-like visualizations. I'm afraid that if I did standing exercisse in the middle of the night it would energize me too much. I am in fact more tuned in to body (especially jaw/face) tension, but I probably can do more and get more in tune. Thanks for the references, if you have any more you could PM them to me, thanks!