Thread: FryingMan's DILD course workbook

Originally Posted by FryingMan

Gotta stay positive. And stick to the routine.

Yes, and yes. I understand the need to have it all - wakings, dreams, recall, lucids,... But, it all should be a pleasure to do. If it becomes a chore, or something that is not pleasant to do, or it makes us mad if we don't get it, that's when we know we are trying too hard. We have all done it. It's importantant to realize that even "failiures" are teaching us something.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

I'm going to change my "question reality" query from "Am I dreaming?" to "Where am I (and why)?" "How did I get here?" finishing with: "Why do I think I'm awake?" (with some RC checks like nose/hands, etc.). Of course the danger of "Am I dreaming?" is you could just zombie-like answer "no" and keep going. I've had it suggested that instead I should assert that "I am dreaming!" but that doesn't feel right either, especially when I'm surrounded with proof that I'm not. So instead of assuming what my state is, I plan to cultivate a critical check including memory and some RCs.

As I creep towards one month of LD training with no LDs, my attention is starting to stray to things like: induction aids like audo tracks, diet (tryptophan), and.....the red pill: galantamine. I really don't want to get "hooked" on anything like that and want my LDs to be "all natural," but I'm wondering if a little LD "assisted vacation" from time to time wouldn't help with motivation...?

I think all the signs are there for getting close ("lucid dreaming" appearing in my dreams twice recently, once audibly and once live in front of my eyes (doh!)), I'll hang on, I'm shooting for the "one LD by the end of Septamber" still as my goal, and hopefully exponentially doubling LD frequency every month (faster would be OK too!). Must. Not. Give. In........(unless anyone has recommendations for an awesome safe aid that is not LD-addictive [meaning you can't LD without it after using it]).

That is a good way to question reality. But just remember, in a dream, it will feel like waking life. You will not realize you are dreaming untill you do. So don't assume in waking life, that you are awake, just bacause you are surrounded with "proof" that your are awake. It will be same in a dream. Good way to conquer this is to have mentality "it looks like I'm awake, but I will check anyway, because I could be dreaming". You don't have to have this as a mantra, just think about this throughtout the day. I can't tell you how many times I was absolutely sure I'm awake and did a RC just because I read about that possibility here on DV and got lucid.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

I guess I'm officially making it my intention to fill in a daily report here. Not a "dream journal", but a "LD training experience" log. Hope it doesn't get boring. I think it will be informative looking back to see the day by day thoughts, feelings, and experiences of an LDer-in-training.

Feeling better today. Many WL distractions last night, but still managed consistent sleep with several wakings with decent recall. Didn't get all journaled (again due to WL interference), but still I feel like I'm heading back away from my mini-recall "dry spell" to normalcy (multiple wakings with multiple dreams recalled). Slept long time, 11-ish hours, making up for only 3 hours the night before. Read some about "REM rebound," it seems like something dreamers would like to do?

Tryptophan and choline binge before bed last night. Tried a little bit of everything:

• 1 teaspoon soy lecithin granules
• 4-5 smoked mussels (B12)
• 1 cup apple juice (1 hour before bed, and 1/2 cup in middle of night during WBTB)
• cup peppermint tea before right before bed
• peanut butter on multi-grain/seed bread
• hummus on rye crackers
• 30 drops Valerian extract in water 10 mins before bed

In terms of judging the effectiveness of the lucid food/stuff: I can't say that I had any vivid dreams, but my recall was improved, and I didn't toss and turn trying to get to sleep.
Going to bed at night I had strange tingly feelings all over my body. Maybe tryptophan/choline overload? Too much stuff taken too close together?

In the morning around the 8 hour mark I was dozing back to sleep and suddenly noticed the "full body buzz" as I call it: like a mild-medium electrical / numbness buzzing throughout my entire body. It's not painful. It's unexpected arrival though sort of jolted me alert. I believe this is my own "body is falling asleep noise", as I've experienced it before. What the heck I thought, maybe I'll get an unplanned WILD, and starting in with '1. I am dreaming, 2. I am dreaming" but the buzzing quickly subsided and I became alert/awake. Darn. Rolled over and went to sleep, had some more dreams, woke up at 11am and had to get up for work. I probably could have slept more.

My goal of my first lucid dream by the end of September is rapidly approaching. Good thing I still have 2 weekends (6 nights) left before I hit that deadline. I sleep in our place outside the city Friday, Saturday, and Sunday nights, where it's very quiet, dark, practically no distractions at all.

I like the new state check ritual: "Where am I? Why am I here? How did I get here? Why do I think I'm awake?" It feels natural, and forces me to review short term memory and to examine critically my environment and my reason for being there. I absolutely know the first time I do this in a dream I will become lucid!

REM rebound does exist. I'm not a big fan of it. My first LD was only after about 3 hrs of sleep. I shudder what would have happened, if I didn't have it because I took something for rebound. And since then, maybe that's why I'm reluctant to take 5htp for rebound - I just don't want to miss any dreams I may have.

Try not to worry about a deadline. It may put too much pressure on you. Some people report success, when they stop "wanting" to have a lucid. Give yourself a 1-2 day break from practice. Don't wish for it. Then after 2 days continue. But think more of an intent, then a wish. The difference is like between you "knowing" that you are going to work in the morning, and "wishing" you went to someplace else instead. One is a wish, one is a given, done deal.

That is a good way to question reality. But just remember, in a dream, it will feel like waking life. You will not realize you are dreaming untill you do. So don't assume in waking life, that you are awake, just bacause you are surrounded with "proof" that your are awake. It will be same in a dream. Good way to conquer this is to have mentality "it looks like I'm awake, but I will check anyway, because I could be dreaming". You don't have to have this as a mantra, just think about this throughtout the day. I can't tell you how many times I was absolutely sure I'm awake and did a RC just because I read about that possibility here on DV and got lucid.

Thanks for the feedback, I absolutely do this seriously considering each question. The great thing about this approach is that it is much harder if not impossible to take shortcuts! You can't answer "how did I get here?" or "why am I here?" or "where am I?" or "why do I think I'm awake?" with "yes / no" and just move on.

Two little words have rocked my world and changed it forever: "I'm dreaming!"

It was several minutes in to an extended fairly vivid ND dream sequence about 7.5/8 hours after bedtime that I recall very well (because it became an LD? Does becoming lucid in a DILD tend to boost recall of the ND leading up to lucidity?). I'm descending down stairways leading through a rectangular building (frequent dreamsign). I recall passing little cramped workplaces packed with large collections of fine and delicate tools and equipment. I reach the ground floor, encounter a man, I'm talking with him (skipping detail here just to get to the good stuff). I'm standing fairly close to him. I notice all of a sudden he has a one-or-two foot-long, scabbed and bloody looking pointy monster/gremlin ear. I'm inspecting it fairly closely. Without any stirring of a critical faculty, with no sense of confusion or wondering what was going on, and without performing any RCs, the thought just pops into my head: "I'm dreaming."

I'm instantly lucid! The effect cannot be adequately described though many say it's like everything becomes very vivid. The best way I can think to describe it is like transitioning from watching a movie on a screen, to being quickly sucked into the movie and becoming present in the scene. It was bizarre and fascinating. Some part of me I think was saying "I did it!". I also had a quick concern about losing lucidity, but didn't hold on to that for long. I forgot my WL "first time lucid" stabilization practice entirely, I didn't even rub my hands, I just started looking around and the thought that I had to find a certain kind of person also instantly presented itself. By the way the man turned in to a red-haired woman with a normal ear I think (red haired woman is also a dreamsign), I'm not sure if the transformation of the man to the woman happened before or after the "I'm dreaming" trigger.

So I start my search for this person: I scan around the room that I'm in (it's like a large library). DCs are seated along the wall opposite me in chairs. THEY'RE ALL STARING AT ME! They all have these blank expressions, bordering on disapproving, that seem like they're thinking: "just what do you think you're doing, buddy?" Kind of like, they're on the inside, and I'm not "supposed" to know what's going on. I'm surprised but not really spooked, I didn't recall reading in other's DJs that DCs stared at the dreamer like that though.

I'm concerned I won't find the person in time, and I start running. I'm outside on some kind of concourse, passing people, I can't find who I'm looking for. Things start to fade to gray. Without thinking about it I right away start spinning to my left. Two, perhaps three rotations, then stop, and the dream scene is back. Do I take this moment to ground myself, to stabilize, to "make out with the ground" to get all the senses involved in the dream? No, of course I just start running again, doh!

Before starting running I did make an observation on the "feeling" of the visuals. They were clear and fairly crisp/vivid, not super vivid though. I had the distinct feeling like I was seeing everything through a viewfinder of an HD video camera.

Maybe because of this thought of the video camera analogy, I use my "telephoto zoom" vision which I just seem to know I have and I see whom I'm looking for ahead of me. I run up and meet the person, and the dream starts fading again. I spin around instantly again, but no luck, I wake up.

I'm pretty pleased at this first LD experience. I did not instantly wake up after becoming lucid, I had the sense to make a note of how the dream "felt" visually, and I responded like a reflex to the fading of the dream with spinning. Of course, better would have been remaining calmer, not following my impulse, and stabilizing via vocal commands and engaging all the senses. Next time, I hope!

Thanks for all the support and encouragement, I'm sure they helped!

After waking up and pumping my fists a few times and voice recording my experience (and some the ND leading up to the LD, and some earlier recalled NDs), I starting considering, "just how did I become lucid?" I felt no critical faculty arise, I did not question the reality of the dream, and I performed no reality check.

Last night was a "complex" LD-night. I woke up once with no recall at about 4 hours, a bit bummed, usually I have at least a fragment or two at the 4 hour waking. So I focused just on setting intention for: remembering dreams, and waking up after each dream. At 5 1/2 hours I woke up with recall, one 90-minute period following the previous waking, so the "wake after each dream" intention seems to have taken. At some point I briefly tried FILD, WILD, and did some SSILD cycles. Mixing stuff alot. After the SSILD cycles I had trouble getting back to sleep, it took an hour at least I think. Then once I woke with the recall of some dreams, I did MILD with a small adjustment: instead of looping through: recall scene, visualize with mantra, visualize becoming lucid, repeat, what I did was: visualize scene, say first part of mantra: "Next time I'm dreaming I remember to recognize that..." then pause, and then visualize becoming lucid, saying "...I'm Dreaming!". Then rapid-fire I visualize a series of scenes from the dream back to back, like a slide show, at each one I say to myself "I'm dreaming!". So the mantra goes something like: "Next time I'm dreaming I remember to recognize that....I'm dreaming!...I'm dreaming!...I'm dreaming!...I'm dreaming!" with each "I'm dreaming!" each time changing the scene in my head, to associate many different pieces of the dream with "I'm dreaming." During this I'm trying to get the same "feeling" I get when setting a prospective memory target, just as LaBerge says to do.

In the dream when "I'm dreaming" popped into my head, it was VERY similar to doing a WL prospective memory exercise, the same feeling when you encounter a target in WL and the prospective memory association "fires" and you get the "ping!" feeling of recognizing it.

It also so happens that earlier during the day I increased the intensity of the prospective memory exercise. Instead of just settling on 4 targets for the day, I resolved to keep a running set of 4 targets at all times: when I realized that I'd hit or missed a target, I set a new one right away. I think this kept the "goal" seeking center of my brain active throughout the day, instead of just shutting it off once the 4 targets had been hit or missed. I also realized in the middle of the night that I had missed my "brushing my teeth" target earlier before going to bed, another clue that the goal center was still activated perhaps?

Anyway, while there was a big mix of techniques, I'm pretty sure that it was a pure MILD LD.

Lucid "aids": drank a cup of peppermint tea (Dutchraptor claims this enhances dream vividity, albeit he uses it with St. Johns Wort which I haven't got yet), at the 4 hour awakening drank a cup of apple juice, when I couldn't get back to sleep, I took 30 drops of Valerian extract. "Sleep juice" as I thought of it, it helped and I got back to sleep in probably 10 minutes after that, with the new MILD "I'm dreaming" repetitive approach.

The LD occured about 8 hours after bedtime.

Three days in a row this week (Mon, Tues, Weds nights) I just couldn't go back to sleep after waking up around the 6th hour of sleep, journaling, super quick bathroom visit, and BTB for MILD reps. Tried Valerian only on Monday, didn't help, and didn't want to build up a Valerian resistance so stopped trying that. Slightly bummed due to the loss of the key REM times 3 days in a row. However, each time later in the morning I did get back to sleep for some more dreams (effectively a 3-hour or so WBTB, so more like "late morning nap" I guess ). Each time in the late morning attempts I felt myself falling asleep really slowly after MILD reps, so decided to try WILD. On Thurs (yesterday) morning, I made it in to a short WILD! I switched mantra to "Patience....." after getting some feedback from Sageous that being patient is part of the required mindset. I was definitely "holding on" to awareness much more lightly this time, almost falling asleep unconsciously. I just barely realized it as a dreamlet presented itself and did not vanish right away, it stayed about 4-5 seconds. This was suprprising/new (normally the dreamlets vanish pretty quickly), so this nudged my mind a bit, and I told myself "This is a dream" and unfortunately instantly woke up after that. I saw a winter scene and was looking out over a frozen lake.

I have a solo weekend coming up, 3 nights of absolutely no distractions, so I'm looking forward to some great MILDing.

Last night had trouble falling asleep right at bedtime (wife came to bed late, woke me up). I read in bed for about 15 minutes and that did the trick! I fell asleep fairly fast after that. Have to remember to power of reading in making me sleepy, and to keep some boring books by the bed .

Also, I was able to get back to sleep after the 6th hour awakening finally Thurs (last) night, which made me happy. Had a nice variety of dreams and fragments. I know that I forgot a bunch before I could get to the journal.

In my enhanced Prospective Memory exercise I hit 10/12 targets two days ago. It's definitely effort to constantly choose and set intention on new targets, but I feel my PM improving, and note that my "goal center" seems generally more active reviewing the targets during the day.

Yeeeey, awesome, congrats! See, I told you


Yes, I agree that setting achievable goals is a good thing. You can even decide to "reward" yourself for achieving something. Like recall a dream, or even as you did, to have a lucid. But if you don't succeed, don't be disappointed, angry, or punish yourself. I know you would not do that, because I can tell, that you have a very good feel about the whole LDing thing, and you know, what helps and what can hinder it. Btw, I strongly believe, that every attempt is worth of appreciation, because it will teach us, one way or the other.

The best way I can think to describe it is like transitioning from watching a movie on a screen, to being quickly sucked into the movie and becoming present in the scene.

I get a very similar feel myself.

DCs are seated along the wall opposite me in chairs. THEY'RE ALL STARING AT ME! They all have these blank expressions, bordering on disapproving, that seem like they're thinking: "just what do you think you're doing, buddy?" Kind of like, they're on the inside, and I'm not "supposed" to know what's going on.

Funny Reminds me one of my very first LDs. I get lucid and all excited and I say "Hi" to a little girl. She rolls her eyes, as if thinking "oh, great, another one. You are not the first to get here, so get over it".

Yeah, I still get super excited most of the times when I realize. And I like it, even if that wakes me up. But it looks like you are not gonna be waking up that soon. Good job keeping it up for 1 min.

Often we get lucid, it seems like "out of the blue". No RCs, no questioning, no nothing. But you see, those things happen only after you get some tiny bit of awareness in a regular dream. And that is a fruit of your labor. All the mental prep you did. The awareness, RCs, questioning reality, working on recall, thinking about dreams and LDs.

And congrats for getting closer to a WILD. The dreamlet is indeed a good sign. Now you know you can get to it. I do get excited as well, but I also try to be just a pasive observer. That's the best mindset for a WILD.

So, your progress is huge. You doing great. Keep at it and Happy dreams

Last night was one of those dreaming nights you wish you could put in a can and just keep opening again and again!

Day: lots of prospective memory targets. Medium number of state checks, a few Sageous RRCs.
Before bed:
One hour of transcribing my voice journaling into written journal for a couple days.
~1 teaspoon lecithin granules, couple of glasses of apple juice
Read for about 45 minutes (helps me get to sleep faster I've found).

Bed at 01:00 Thank SC for dreams, ask for more LDs, put in request for particular themes.
wake at 05:17, no recall (may have been some earlier awakenings, I thought, hey, I didn't recall doing any journaling yet, and I was pretty sure I had some earlier light recall)
drank 1/2 cup of apple juice
then did some MILD reps based on previous night's dreams
and did some SSILD cycles for good measure.
wake at 06:17: LUCID!
Progress! A different lucid awakening moment, this time: critical faculty! I was in the middle of a (somewhat bizarre) conversation, I was asking an old friend about his hush-hush new business venture. It had to to with coaching (kids?) football. I said I had not ever coached football but that I had coached soccer (true in WL). I tried to hand him a card from my wallet, when all my cards fell to the ground. About 10-15 of them, I'm kneeling down trying to pick them up. And I can't. They just keep falling out of my hands, they just won't get arranged how I want them to be. Then I think, "Hey, this is a bizarre situation, I should check to see if I'm in a dream" and BOOM as soon as I said "dream" I became lucid. Same "sucked into the movie" feeling as the first DILD, I instantly stood up in amazement. I was *so sure* that I had been awake before, I was almost in shock to realize it was a dream. No RC again like DILD #1, as soon as the word "dream" popped into my head after and I had the notion to question my state, I was instantly lucid.

And I wasn't super-confused before being lucid, like I am sometimes in dreams, it was more like light puzzlement, the flavor of the thought was, "oh, this is one of those times when things don't work like you think they should that you're supposed to see if you're dreaming." If I can get consistent with this then my frequency will skyrocket since I have these moments all the time. I missed one earlier in the ND portion: I saw a shooting star (cool, it went all the way across the sky). Then more, and more and more shoting stars (whoa!). Then I saw colorful pinwheels of stars in the sky, I tell my friend "Look! Check that out!" Then I see a huge picture/ scene in the sky and first am filled with wonder, but quickly think, "Oh, someone must be running a projector somewhere" and my attention moves on. Doh!

Again, right away the very high/giddy excitement, I completely forgot and blew off the ND conversation and DCsI, I just turn around and walk through the crowd of people and head down the corridor, no clear goals in mind. Without willing it, I suddenly float like a balloon up to the roof of the hallway and stay there, looking down. I get a grip on myself, and rub my hands together (yay!). I feel my hands rubbing and and see them briefly, feel a little heat. Right away I float down to the ground, and feel more in control. (I wish I had right then done a thorough stabilizatation / dream quality shouting, but I didn't, I guess I felt sufficiently stable.)

I start walking the hallways looking for a way out. All the people have vanished. I'm walking through a building, observing, looking for a DC to talk to. It's sort of a cluttered industrial "backstage" place, lots of random stuff around.

I decide to try summoning. I say to myself "there's a DC around that next corner." I look around the corner -- empty hallway. Darn. I turn around, walk back, and then try "there's (my prepared-in-WL special dream location) through that next doorway. Nothing. Just an old woman in the distance.

Have the idea to stabilize (woot), I decide to try "making out with the ground" as heard in a podcast here on DV. I lie down on the ground on my stomach and lick the floor. I'm only wearing underwear, and I feel the grain/grittyness of the wood floor on my stomach and arms. I lick the floor with my tongue. No taste, though. In retrospect I think it's better to "make out with the wall" since lying down can be risking a waking.

I want to get outside, to where more people are. I'm still in the very high-ceilinged storage room, the same area I've been in for a minute, I see a sign/doorway about 15-20 feet above the ground. At one point it says "exit" I think and at another it shows a big picture of a person in a swimsuit. Must be the way to the pool, I decide to go there.

I start climbing up a dresser to get to the exit/door and have a Matrix moment (as in, "do you think that's air you're breathing!?"), thinking I'm going about this the wrong way. Some things are in my way, I try to "jedi force blast" (I wasn't actually thinking "jedi force blast" I just pushed my hand forwards and willed the stuff to zoom out of my way) them out of my way, I succeed in moving a few things out of my way. Then 3 people came in to the room from the swimming pool entrance above me and I woke instantly, no fade to gray.

Thought briefly about trying DEILD to get back in but decided I wanted to journal and remember.

Subjective time: 2, maybe 3 minutes

Thanked my SC and asked for more!

07:20 MILD reps and SSILD cycles
09:37 woke from vivid ND , just what I asked SC for!
09:57 trying more MILD and SSILD
Couldn't sleep, very excited, going over dreams in my head
10:43 trying more MILD and SSILD
12:44 woke from another awesome reasonably vivid ND, many details forgotten, but still fun

Woohoo, one month to first DILD, 1 week to second DILD (with 3 days of missing the key REMs), shooting now for multiple per week! And it didn't need to wait for the late morning REMs, it came around the 5th hour.

There is a very different feel between my 2 DILDs and the recent vivid NDs: in the vivid NDs I'm totally confident and feel entirely in control, in my LDs I'm excited but my attempt at control was more "hopeful wishing" than "confident expectation." That's the next thing.

Wow, congrats!

I very much enjoyed reading your description. I can feel the excitement and I'm happy for you.

I'm sure the control will come after you read some more accounts from people describing how they walk through walls, fly, summon... That's what I strongly believe is very helpful. Every time I read something, I think "oh, so that's how it works". I think that, even if I don't think that actively. But my mind is paying attention to even those thought of mine, that I'm not even aware that I have.

I really wanted to 'summon' Tahiti. So I practiced in WL. I pretended that I just got lucid (complete with excited and shocked feeling that you get when you really get lucid). I imagined beach behind me and thought "when i turn around, there is Tahiti". Then I turned around and imagined it being there. It took a few tries, but I finally got it.

Happy dreams.

The back-to-sleep portion of WBTB is an ongoing challenge. I think my progress would be even faster with more quality dream time, especially the 7th and 8th hours. I must spend effort to learn about what works for me to get me back to sleep quickly to get the most out of both MILD and WILD:

0) I already wear earplugs and use a sleep mask.
1) relaxation techniques...take them seriously, study more about them, find what works for me. Audio tapes? I prefer not to sleep with earbuds in, I understand it's bad for hearing.
2) getting enough exercise so that my body needs 8+ hours of sleep (I just have not done this...and it's beneficial for general health, too!)
Just started exercising today. Nice long fast walk/slow jog in the park for an hour. Body held up quite well, pleasantly enough .
3) not eating fatty/big meals just before bed...keep it light for several hours before bed time. Milk/yogurt, fruit.
3.5) relaxing bed time drinks: peppermint tea.
4) melatonin issues (I'm middle-aged, again, and melatonin production supposedly starts to fall off in middle-age)? Tough for me since we live next to several strong streetlights outside our bedroom window and my job has be on a computer all day long.
Get thicker curtains? Acquire sour/tart cherry extract?
5) lucid-friendly diet. Keep up with the B6, B12, tryptophan, choline providing foods (which are generally quite healthy).
6) experiement more with natural relaxants like Valerian. I see this as only a "once in a while," I don't want to become dependent on them or to build up a resistance to them.
7) try keyword *only* journaling during middle of the night wakings. Journaliing can take me upwards of 20 minutes even for brief dreams, as I like to go for details. Trust my memory that details will flow back in with the right keywords / tags chosen.

I'm hoping the "easy" (physical) ones will yield results: regular exercise, lighter/smaller meals, lucid-friendly diet.

Positive attitude, set intention: "I fall asleep easily, right when I want to" (can't say "I fall asleep quickly" or that intention might hurt WILD?).

Big goal: get dream recall, vividness, duration, sleep quality, sleep time up to vacation levels while living the daily city life.

Positive attitude, set intention: "I fall asleep easily, right when I want to" (can't say "I fall asleep quickly" or that intention might hurt WILD?).

Big goal: get dream recall, vividness, duration, sleep quality, sleep time up to vacation levels while living the daily city life.

Hi FryingMan!

I think you are on the right track with maintaining a positive attitude and focusing on recall. For many months, these exact factors are the only things that kept me going. When I focus on keeping a positive attitude (even adding some humor into it) I feel like I am accomplishing something...and you are! Even if I don't get lucid, I still have hit the jackpot because I gained a positive attitude in the process. Keep up the great work!

Originally Posted by bemistaken

Hi FryingMan!

I think you are on the right track with maintaining a positive attitude and focusing on recall. For many months, these exact factors are the only things that kept me going. When I focus on keeping a positive attitude (even adding some humor into it) I feel like I am accomplishing something...and you are! Even if I don't get lucid, I still have hit the jackpot because I gained a positive attitude in the process. Keep up the great work!

Thank you bemistaken! Yes I must remember my progress, that I've already had 2 DILDs and a tiny WILD, and several long, vivid NDs that were really awesome, that I never would have had without all this entire experience. Not to mention the weird/funny situations of the regular NDs. I'm impatient I know for more, I want LD mastery right away! The fairly severe backwards progress in recall and sleep quality due to returning to busy city life after vacation was a bit of a downer. But keeping a positive attitude, and calmly working around issues is the way to go, all the while never giving up. I thought last night would be the first night of zero recall since I started LD training, but lo and behold, I relaxed, and asked myself "what was I dreaming about?" and a few scenes came back to me!

In fact last night I had a pretty good sleep night, probably 8 hours at least, and an OK recall night. The goal was falling asleep quickly after each waking after a few MILD reps, and it basically worked out pretty well. Woke twice, (5.5 hours, and 7 hours after initial bedtime) and both times got back to sleep and dreamt more. I could have slept more but I got up 9.5 hours after bedtime, and I wanted to quickly go to the gym. I think the extra exercise is starting to catch up with me and making my body want to sleep more (yay!). My obstinate desire to stay in bed until I get a dream to recall may have been throwing off my sleep schedule, making and endless cycle.

Yet another bad sleep night. This is really starting to suck. Bedtime around 00:30, awake with a few fragments of recall at 04:30, did some MILD reps and couldn't get back to sleep, tried continuously to get back to sleep until around 07:30 (it doesn't feel that long somehow), when I got up to do the family morning getting everyone ready tasks. BTB around 09:30, I feel super tired, like I could sleep in mere moments upon lying down, but I still couldn't fall asleep! I very quickly got close, but every time I got close, and felt the final "drop" off to sleep starting, I woke up. Lather, rinse, repeat, over and over.

I tried to keep my mind empty. It seems to be something to do with my eyes, maybe I'm watching the HI/HH with too much attention and keeping me too alert. I saw tons of little dreamlets, some a few seconds long, but I paid them no attention and refused to be temped to try an impromptu WILD, because I just wanted to sleep because I was so tired! When I was not focusing on my visual input I felt like I got more relaxed and closer to sleep. I tried holding the "hearing focus" of the SSILD cycle, moving all attention to my hearing away from my eyes and holding it there, and I found this got me drowsier and closer to sleep pretty fast, but I had trouble holding it for very long periods of time, long enough to sleep.

I also felt a few "WILD noises" (vibrations) but ignored them. During the 04:30-07:30 wakeful period, I got the "loudest WILD noise" I've experienced yet: very unpleasant pressure in my chest, and a loud roaring in my ears. I was lying on my back at the time. Normally I sleep on my side and the WILD noise only comes to relatively mild full body vibrations.

Eventually I fell asleep, don't know for how long. And I dreamt, and I recall a few short scenes.

Now I'm concerned that something is "broken" about how I fall asleep.

On the one hand I feel great that I've made good progress in recall and having my first LDs within 5 weeks of effort.

On the other hand missing all this sleep consistently is missing all the dream time and potential LDs. The odd thing is that I don't actually *feel* all that tired now that I'm up. Maybe I overslept on the weekend when I had my 2nd DILD and was in bed for about 12 hours straight on a dream marathon and got too much "sleep in the bank?"

I got good exercise both yesterday and today. I'll keep up the exercise. I'm avoiding overeating and junk food.

Hope this phase passes very soon.

Ideas/advice?

Originally Posted by FryingMan

I also felt a few "WILD noises" (vibrations) but ignored them. During the 04:30-07:30 wakeful period, I got the "loudest WILD noise" I've experienced yet: very unpleasant pressure in my chest, and a loud roaring in my ears. I was lying on my back at the time. Normally I sleep on my side and the WILD noise only comes to relatively mild full body vibrations.

Well, the body sensations and HH are suppose to be observed passively, that's true. But they can also be an indicator, that a dream/lucid dream is very near, just seconds away.

From my experience, and also have read about it, there are a few main ways how to get into a LD with help of HH sounds, images, or sensations. http://www.dreamviews.com/wake-initi...ntry-wild.html

Hi FryingMan,

You are doing so well! Just continue with concentrating on your sleep schedule and recall and you will be there before you know it and don't for to RC every time you wake up!

I want LD mastery right away!

You are not alone...me too. Good luck to you and happy lucid dreaming!

slow recall early morning, made up for it with late morning BTB / nap. Room too cold. Incubation! - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Night started out with initial bed time long to sleep, unusal for me, especially in the country where it's quiet. Maybe ate too much too late, including too much sugar.

Didn't journal during the night, despite some wakings with a bit of recall. Room too frickin' cold!

Got up after about 6th hour waking, tried more sleep, didn't feel it coming, read in bed for a while, late morning nap resulted in a bunch of recall with a lot of different scenes.

Every dreaming experience is positive! Must remember that. I think I'm going to stop writing "trouble sleeping" because I seem to be setting intention and creating a self-fullfilling prophecy. This night, I actually did some unintentional incubation (and some intentional): I imagined petting my cat while trying to relax and fall asleep. And I saw a dream about my cat! I also got a (vague/partial) small portion of a scene which I specifically tried to incubate before bed.

Tonight I'm going to try very minimal artificial light: screen brightness to minimum, lights basically off starting at 7pm, just one indirect light enough to see keys on keyboard. Need to get a laptop with lit keys! Hopefully this will get my melatonin maxed out. Lots of B-vitamin: multivitamins, smoke mussels for B12, soy lecithin for choline. Apple juice. I don't know yet if it helps or not, but I actually feel a great deal better now than I did a few months ago, paying attention to exercise and nutrition makes a big difference in overall well-being, which hopefully will transfer into sleep.

Need to get back to *regular schedule*! That's one huge difference between now and in my first 3-4 weeks of lucid training where my recall shot up to over 10 scenes per night, sometimes as high as 16. My to-bed time is all over the map, 1-2 hours differnce from night to night sometimes. That's got to be affecting everything, recall and time-to-sleep.

Also, only electronically journaling now. Probably need to return to at least pen and paper intention setting.

Goals helped get to lucid #1 and #2. Got lazy, haven't kept a goal journal for dream recall and more LDs. Do that soon, tomorrow perhaps.

Continued prospective memory exercises. Typically about 8-10 targets per day, doing 4-5 at a time, set new targets once old targets get hit/missed. Some days close to 100% hitting them all.

RCs and RRCs count a bit low today.

Will set incubation intention tonight as well.

This is quite exciting. If unintentional incubation works (as it has a few times), I thought intentional should work even better. I thought of two scenarios last night and "asked my SC" to present them to me in dreams. They both occurred! They were fairly majorly transformed from my original visualization (to fit into the story line I guess), but I have no doubt they came from my incubation intent! I'm like 4/4 now in having "dropping off to sleep" thoughts show up in my dreams that same night (two unintentional, two intentional).

If this is true (and it seems it really is), then it must be a fairly short path from just "theme" incubation into lucidity incubation!

I feel that "the next time I'm dreaming I remember to recognize that I'm dreaming" is too long and cumbersome. Yet I'm leery of "going against LaBerge" and shortening it just to "I'm dreaming" with accompanying visuals of dream scenes and becoming lucid in them. But when I'm tired, I just can't get that whole mantra out without mangling it or having to think too hard about it.

Does that seem like a good approach? Just visualizing a scene and repeating multiple times to myself, "I'm dreaming....I'm dreaming...." That's basically exactly what I do for my prospective memory exercises and I have a pretty high "hit" percentage now every day.

Regular exercise during the day for a couple of days now, regular to-bed time, mostly regular getting up time (getting up after the same amount of sleep, about 8 hours), getting out of bed after 20-30 minutes instead of tossing and turning for hours, seem to be paying off with better sleep and recall on the rise again. Getting back to sleep takes a while if I get mentally stimulated (doing recall, journaling, MILD, and SSILD), and I did get up for some time in a rocking chair last night (hey, real WBTB ). But I got two solid late morning sleep periods with some decent recall, so that's good news!

Your progress is amazing. And kudos for your enthusiasm!

Focus on sleep for the last several weeks paying off. I'm getting to sleep, and back to sleep, fairly easily, in both city and country. On the couple of times I couldn't recently get back to sleep in 30 minutes (once in city, once in country), I get up out of bed, move to a different room, grab a quick snack if hungry [small bowl of whole-grain cereal], sit in the dark visualizing desired dreams, doing MILD reps, saying my mantras, relaxing, maybe doing some SSILD cycles. After about 20-30 minutes up like this sleep came soon after returning to bed both times.

On top of that the regular exercise has me feeling great. A chronic pain in my shoulder is much better now with swimming and hot sauna/steam baths.

Been slacking a bit on DJ -- getting several days behind transcribing my voice journal entries. I usually remember all of the elements of of the dreams that I end up remembering enough to journal, but after waiting several days to transcribe, one dream had entirely fallen out of my head except for one small moment. It was like reading someone else's dream journal entry! It's important to transcribe same day, both for memory and for keeping LD expectation high.

Now I need to establish and maintain a goal journal for LDs and for recall, and get my RC, RRCs, imagination, expectation, intention training back into full swing. Taking a fresh look through the DJ for reocurring dreamsigns probably also a good idea. Also need to slowly add back in MILD reps and perhaps SSILD cycles after journaling, while maintaining quick back-to-sleep.

Confidence building in city dreaming. I'm paying close attention to conditions (like room temperature) to make them as dream-friendly as possible. Street noise not bothering me now with earplugs in and a fan on for some noise-cancellation. City recall starting to rival country recall, and that's a very good thing leading to a positive outlook.

I did have one ND where the terms "MILD" and "WILD" occurred in my thoughts. That's a good sign as dreaming about lucid dreaming marked a short countdown to my earlier first LDs, so DILDs need to be popping back in any time now (you hear me, DILDs!? Tonight, now that the competition has started!). And with DILDs back I can attempt DEILDs upon LD exit.

I also realized I'd woken up from a dream for the first time in a while. I was able to hold still and do recall. For the last several weeks I've woken with no immediate dream in my head and immediately turned over, but in those cases the old reliable question "What was I dreaming about?" continues to work every time. I've noted that I seem to dream a fair amount even in the first 1-2 hours of the night when I wake up then, but more often I don't wake up until 3 or 4.5 hours (I don't use alarms, just intent "I wake up after every dream and remember it".)

Hello again FryingMan I was asked to help out in this area of the forums so let me know if you have any questions. You and I have been in some of the same discussions, mostly in Sageous' threads and now in the competition thread (where you are ahead of me; keep up the good work!). You may just be using this workbook to track/record your progress and you do seem to be more studious than I so there could be things that I could learn from you instead (including your work and success on getting back to sleep)!

Let me know if you are looking for feedback, but in the meantime...one quick note on SSILD, which has been great for me, is that for whatever reason CosmicIron suggests to not combine it with other techniques during the WBTB. I may take another look at the tutorial, it could have been taken out of the latest revision and I am not sure if that would help but it is how I used it. I just get up (sometimes after putting a quick note in my DJ), go to the bathroom, lay back down and do the cycles (there is some built in awareness just doing this I guess). I did tweak the cycles as well to help me get back to sleep more quickly most of the time.

Hi fogelbise! I was stoked to get DILD #3 in the competition even if it was short. It was different from #1 and #2 in that the moment of lucidity was more of a smooth transition into awareness instead of an instant shocking moment. I also didn't go running like crazy through the dream (the fact that I was already ... occupied ... ... may have had something to do with that). I did think I should work on some competition goals and did tell myself "do a reality check" for the first time in a dream.

I'm very happy that I've re-learned now how to fall asleep. I may now in fact be approaching the opposite challenge -- waking up enough to journal and recall sufficiently, do some MILD/SSILD reps, and gather some awareness before heading back to sleep. Which for me is the much preferable problem, I really don't like lying in bed awake at night.

I'll do the basic relaxation tense/relax, very quickly, particularly focusing on the forehead and the jaw. Mostly the jaw, I hold a lot of tension there typically. I've added very fast tense/relax of arms/chest, then abdomen, then legs/butt, then toes/feet.

I've discovered I tend to become alert by placing focus on my vision: focusing on my closed eyelids. Usually when I "shock" back to alertness my focus is immediately and strongly on the vision sense. I've found that focusing on hearing (as in the hearing/ears axis in SSILD) removes the focus on vision, and that is very relaxing for me. My eyes then become relaxed and unfocused and I'm more "looking" using my "mental vision." I then gently remove the focus on hearing and leave the eyes unfocused, and I'm quite relaxed at this time and can fall asleep very quickly from there.

Sometimes I have thoughts that pop in, some which bring alertness. I do a trick I read somewhere about just acknowledging the thought and then ignoring it / letting it go. I used to get upset about these thoughts waking me up, which created an endless cycle of tension and alertness boosting each other.

And then sometimes if the thoughts don't let me go I imagine the top of my head opening up and the thoughts just spilling out.

When I do breathing going to sleep I will "push" myself forwards into my relaxed mental vision on each exhale, and feel like I'm sinking "deeper" and "farther out" from my body on each exhale.

I think that perhaps the relaxed vision will help with WILDs, where the challenge is not snapping back to awareness when something interesting happens ("noise" sensations, dreamlets).

I'm really working now on boosting the daily "I'm dreaming" repetitions ala BrandonBoss, and I'm also including Sageous's RRC with each one. And getting in more RCs.

I do about 12 rhythmic reps of "I'm dreaming..." (sometimes with visualization, sometimes without), followed by "do a reality check" where I do the physical nose plug, check hands [including verifying the rings], close each eye to see nose, and maybe pull/stretch finger, and push finger through palm. And I then say "past/present/future" and think back through the day, what I'm doing now, and what I'll be doing later. Once in a while I'll do the RRC along with this: "I exist! I affect everyone/thing around, everyone/thing around affects me".

I'm trying to do that all throughout the day now. I'll keep it up for a few weeks and see if it brings me to BB level . I know I'm still new but I'm really hoping to get the LD frequency and quality up very soon.

I've met my goal of 1 more LD in October, I'm now modifying that to yet one more by the end of the competition (1.5 weeks).

I'm also going to up my WILD attempts to at least 3/week.

edit: about SSILD, I know CI recommends nothing else. But I think that combining the SSILD reps with MILD visualization may be stronger. I take strict sticking to techs with a grain of salt. Both my first two DILDs came with the combination of MILD and SSILD. As BB notes, Bruce Lee's famous quote: "Adapt what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own."

Now that I can get back to sleep when I want to, I will try some experiments of MILD and SSILD each on their own, and perhaps add some WBTB which I didn't need to do before but may need to do now.

(I started typing up a response and lost it...computer issue...anyway, trying again...)

Congratulations on your latest LD! There are so many great nuggets in your post above! It is just another example of why I said you were a true student of LDing in the other thread. If you continue on this path, I have no doubt you will be up there with the best of them!..and I am not saying that lightly. I recommend letting BrandonBoss know that you appreciate his tips anytime you get the chance. I am not sure if I did that as much as I should have.

I will definitely try out some of the getting to sleep methods you use and perhaps tweak them if necessary, thank you for sharing! Oddly enough I have my highest percentage of success recently when I have trouble getting to sleep, eventually having a WILD entry. I think the struggles getting back to sleep may be putting me in a lighter sleep though because I often wake up too quickly from my lucids. Most of my SSILD successes early on were all DILDs which I need to bring back into the mix more.

WBTB - it sounds like you already understand that you have to find that balance between staying up long enough to reactivate your waking memory (without thinking of waking concerns of course) and short enough that you can get back to sleep (and you have addressed that quite nicely!).

RCs, RRCs, and your mantra: Early on it was hard for me to pair these up with the right mindset. I was doing the exercises but not with the best mindset I think. If you have that down, you are doing well. I believe Sageous calls it a sense of wonder I believe. I liken the alertness that I think is helpful to the feeling that you might have in a dark room right after watching a scary movie and checking over your shoulder...wondering, could I be dreaming right now and something could leap over the couch at any moment?

Great job meeting your goals and making new ones! Yes, the frequency should definitely go up with time, especially with the approach that you are taking. I think most people that get good at it go from having LDs a couple of times a month, to maybe once a week, to several times a week with the right commitment.

Thanks again! Yes I'm appreciative of BB's responses, good point to let him know that frequently. It's really interesting that in the beginning, about the first month, leading up to my first LD, I had "easy" recall that developed pretty quickly. It was just all there right when I woke up, and I would wake up 3-4 times per night. Now, with the sleep optimizing schedule (trying to be regular, getting tiring exercise almost every day, etc), the recall comes a bit slower and there seems to be a bit less than in that first month. I know I'm forgetting lots of dreams/details upon waking. That was always true, even a month ago, but I seem to be remembering a bit less now, every night. That might be a bit of the initial excitement and anticipation wearing off, I suppose. I think the sleep issues after the first LD may have been even higher anticipation and excitement due to experiencing the first LD. Certainly it was also due to the increased alertness that comes with doing MILD reps. SSILD also seems pretty stimulating to me in the past, but I'll start integrating it back into the nighttime schedule.

That's some excellent info from both parties. Awesome schedule, Fryingman!