Thread: FryingMan's DILD course workbook

Just thought it could be important to bring up just in case. I had been looking into a different health concern that LukeSid had a while back along with other items that could have possibly been related in another thread...a brief excerpt: "I do feel better seeing that signs point to most of the 'brain cleaning' activity appears to be happening during delta sleep/slow wave brain activity." Thread: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...ml#post2065615

Uh, you are not going to pull a LukeSid on us and disappear in mid-competition renouncing lucid dreaming, right?

Definitely not.

Originally Posted by JoannaB

Uh, you are not going to pull a LukeSid on us and disappear in mid-competition renouncing lucid dreaming, right?

Hahaha.....ooohhh, no, you're not getting rid of my wild (pun intended) bipolar gushings that easily. I'm in for the long haul, friends. I'm WAY too stubborn for that. I mean, I'm so anal I force myself to go back to sleep for a nap just so I can dream some more even though I don't feel the slightest bit sleepy on mornings where there's a spare bed in the house where it's quiet. (And I've made it back to sleep every time I've tried! Just little recall this morning other than the bi-ZARRE thing I "encountered", but I was woken suddenly by the wife rummaging around, that's probably why ).

My dreams are way too weird and amusing to give them up. Like making "love" to that strange genderless thing last night (what the hell was it!? I chose it to be female but there were no "parts" anywhere, like a doll) where I think I got lucid while waking up (1 second? Not enough to count). Not to mention taking tests in the huge alien sphere, and dang it, that guy behind me took my pencil (I could see the huge pencils on the ground covered in teethmarks).

Long live the mushroom bloodhounds (and their misunderstood beautiful queen!) !

edit: oh were you talking to me? Heh, well I'll let it stand

Started today kind of grumpy because of poor recall (despite nap), and getting way behind on LD goals, approaching 2 weeks after last LD, but finished quiet upbeat with some more things to try based on cruising DV. I think I need to start trying DEILDs seriously even with NDs, or at least to train myself not to move and roll over after waking up, which probably affects recall as well.

I almost never "fade" wake up from NDs (once definitely, maybe twice, out of hundreds of recalled dreams over 3+ months, and that one definite was looooong and vivid, almost a LD probably), mostly I just find myself in bed and I'm not sure if I've slept at all.

Maybe the first step is to question *all* rollovers before doing them.

I was talking to either/both of you, since LukeSid's name got mentioned and both of you are signed up for competition, glad to hear neither of you intends to decide that lucid dreaming is not worth the risks.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

Just little recall this morning other than the bi-ZARRE thing I "encountered", but I was woken suddenly by the wife rummaging around, that's probably why ).

Are you sure that your wife rummaging around wasn't an FA? Half of my wife's interruptions were imagined (via FAs or HHs) but it took a while to figure that out (I started asking her).

Long live the mushroom bloodhounds (and their misunderstood beautiful queen!) !

Reliving my dreams gives me a lot of inspiration and oh yes your mushroom bloodhounds!

I think I need to start trying DEILDs seriously even with NDs, or at least to train myself not to move and roll over after waking up, which probably affects recall as well.

The latter definitely and the former definitely if you sense that you woke up in the middle of REM (something jolted you awake for example). Have you seen that alarm technique? It can help you get DEILDs: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...-lucidity.html I used it this morning for my last 90-100 minutes of sleeping in a 7 hour sleep night and it got me that LD...I put the phone on vibrate in my pajama pocket and had it set to alarm every 20 minutes with auto snooze. I only remember catching one of the alarms (stayed still and went straight back to sleep with awareness) but I think I may have caught two alarms with a semi-lucid as well. I am only sure enough to count one LD.

I almost never "fade" wake up from NDs (once definitely, maybe twice, out of hundreds of recalled dreams over 3+ months, and that one definite was looooong and vivid, almost a LD probably), mostly I just find myself in bed and I'm not sure if I've slept at all.

My first thought was how to recommend fixing this, but your recall is often very good. How do you wake from recalled NDs if not fade wake? I think most of mine are and it may just be a matter of recognizing the feeling of first waking up...a mantra could help with this if you want to, but again, maybe don't fix what is not broken in terms of recall methods.

Maybe the first step is to question *all* rollovers before doing them.

I have been trying to do this with motionless RCs in an attempt to catch more FAs.

Originally Posted by JoannaB

Hey Joanna I was talking to either/both of you, since LukeSid's name got mentioned and both of you are signed up for competition, glad to hear neither of you intends to decide that lucid dreaming is not worth the risks.

Hey Joanna I also wondered if you were talking to me after I responded. You might want to try out that technique also in that link above (this post).

I recall NDs by asking myself "What was I dreaming about?" and it then just comes to me. Sometimes it comes to me without having to ask. This morning for instance I had a "flash" recall that just kept snowballing: more and more scenes came back to me. This happened in the middle of rolling over and I froze in mid-roll and just let it come in. There was a lot of it so I didn't voice record in bed for fear of bothering my wife so I got up to the bathroom and spewed out several minutes of voice journal detail. There was a really interesting one in there, I'll get it written up today. Short summary: outdoor glacial spherical shell place.

I set intent: "I remember all my dreams completely", and "I wake up after every dream, remain still, and remember it"

I guess I need to add "I notice when I wake up from dreams" or something like that. Any suggestions?


My wakings from NDs are really odd -- the feeling is almost like I haven't fallen asleep, but there is some nagging discontinuity and I eventually either get the recall coming on its own, or I ask for it and it comes, pretty much always.

I don't think it was a FA although now that you mention it it really had all the signs: I was confused as to what she was doing in that room, she was trying to turn on a fan and having trouble and I was telling her not to bother. Wow, what a concept, maybe it was! But the fan in that room doesn't work I remember...hmm... But I didn't go back to sleep after that that I remember? Or did I? Mind blowing.......

Edit: wow the alarm approach looks really hopeful. Hard to know how long to set the initial alarm for but I usually am pretty regular with 90ish minute cycles so maybe 40 minutes from to-bed time and every 15-20 minutes after that.

Any recommended apps that do that? I have an iphone.... Heck if I can't find any I'll just write one myself.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

I guess I need to add "I notice when I wake up from dreams" or something like that. Any suggestions?

It depends on your goal since your recall system already seems quite good. If you are looking for DEILDs or you just want to remember even more then you could add that mantra keeping in mind that you are probably a good time off from your next REM cycle unless it is late in the morning...I was leaning more towards DEILDs since your recall is good and for those you need to be in the middle of your REM cycle to be able to go straight into the dream(why that alarm method is potentially helpful) so the mantra might include noticing any interruptions while being careful not to have it trigger too many interruptions via the mantra's subconscious suggestion. For the alarm method, maybe something like "When I feel the phone vibration or alarm I remain still and go right back to sleep" that may be enough to retain consciousness if you are in the middle of the REM cycle.

My wakings from NDs are really odd -- the feeling is almost like I haven't fallen asleep, but there is some nagging discontinuity and I eventually either get the recall coming on its own, or I ask for it and it comes, pretty much always.

Mine is usually very different, I wonder if you built up some expectation of not being able to sleep from before into these wakings...obviously you were sleeping since you start recalling dreams.

I don't think it was a FA although now that you mention it it really had all the signs: I was confused as to what she was doing in that room, she was trying to turn on a fan and having trouble and I was telling her not to bother. Wow, what a concept, maybe it was! But the fan in that room doesn't work I remember...hmm... But I didn't go back to sleep after that that I remember? Or did I? Mind blowing.......

Ask your wife. If it was (and I bet you get them more than you realize) the more of those you catch, the more chances to become lucid!

Edit: wow the alarm approach looks really hopeful. Hard to know how long to set the initial alarm for but I usually am pretty regular with 90ish minute cycles so maybe 40 minutes from to-bed time and every 15-20 minutes after that.

If you always wake up and look at your phone or journal in the late morning that is when I would set it...or after a WBTB. I don't think I would want it going off all night and besides your mind is more apt to recognize what it is later in your sleep cycles. Plus I am trying to avoid disturbing my wife so I have it on vibrate and stick it in my pajama pocket. I would want it in there all night.

Any recommended apps that do that? I have an iphone.... Heck if I can't find any I'll just write one myself.

I used alarm clock xtreme that a lot of people on the thread liked.

Did you see this thread: http://www.dreamviews.com/sleep-heal...-once-all.html A big part of it is related to light from your phone or similar devices that we spoke about a while back.

My wakings are getting fewer per night. Maybe due to stress and lingering sickness. Fewer wakings means less recall. Twice now my BTB naps late morning resulted in zero or not much recall. Lots going on in life, hopefully when things calm down recall and LDs will return.

Continued sleep success -- when I resolve to sleep I'm able to do it, so far without fail.

I'm starting to incorporate very short bits of SSILD and MILD at nighttime wakings. May even try (shudder) WILDing or FILDing when I feel very sleepy.

Still going with ADA/RC. Into the third week. Some days are better than others. It's a challenge keeping even just one aspect of ADA. But I think this is the real key. Listening to a Naiya interview on youtube, it sounds like what she does is ADA.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

My wakings are getting fewer per night. Maybe due to stress and lingering sickness. Fewer wakings means less recall. Twice now my BTB naps late morning resulted in zero or not much recall. Lots going on in life, hopefully when things calm down recall and LDs will return.

Continued sleep success -- when I resolve to sleep I'm able to do it, so far without fail.

I'm starting to incorporate very short bits of SSILD and MILD at nighttime wakings. May even try (shudder) WILDing or FILDing when I feel very sleepy.

Still going with ADA/RC. Into the third week. Some days are better than others. It's a challenge keeping even just one aspect of ADA. But I think this is the real key. Listening to a Naiya interview on youtube, it sounds like what she does is ADA.

Sorry to hear about the stress and sickness My recall has been down lately as well and I am using day recall and a written mantra to bring it back up. Naiya has some great stuff...I assume you have seen her DILD and WILD secrets thread: http://www.dreamviews.com/induction-...d-secrets.html

Thanks for the links, there are so many great articles on DV it's hard to find them all .
Crappy / irregular sleep night, again, including an argument about coming to bed so late, kind of grumpy/down about my "dry spell", but I did pre-bed visualization of my desired LD scenario and got really upbeat and positive.

Eventually slept, don't know when (03:00? 04:00?), woke finally at 11:00, nothing at first recall-wise, sensed I had something, you know that "dream on the tip of your tongue" feeling but just can't quite push from vague images into a coherent dream, from stubborness I just kept trying to recall, and I eventually recalled about 6 scenes . Most "zombie-like" NDs, but one where I was constructing a pathway in the world with my will and powers, where I had the courage to respond to the great bird even though I was not chosen as hero.
Ah one more scene coming in now, must go try to solidify it.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

...from stubborness I just kept trying to recall, and I eventually recalled about 6 scenes

Nice perseverance! I was laying in bed this morning trying to DEILD and more and more of my dreams started to come back to me...kind of a passive recall, but I am sure it would have been much harder had I gotten up and started my day.

Tough time at bedtime last night, lots of RL things going on keeping my mind active, eventually slept, woke in the night with recall too tired/lazy to record, tried to commit it to long term memory though, ended up recording it during a later waking but lost a lot of detail and lost that later waking's recall, got up for the day and a dentist appointment, after getting back had a snack and felt pretty tired, went for a nap, slept quickly, but woken by call from wife, there was a dream there but lost it. AAAAAAARRRGH! Geez, do I have to teach myself to recall dreams all over again? It's been so simple & natural for me so far to recall lots of detail... Probably just need to ride out the life changes for a bit. December's looking like a total bust.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

December's looking like a total bust.

Make that: "the first 13 days of December this year were mostly a bust, but I got some experience, learned a thing or two and the rest of the month is going to be good/great (insert preference here!)." Life can throw in some pretty serious challenges to your LD goals for sure. For recall, have you tried recalling your day in a day journal? It can help get your memory going and the recall mindset wheels unjammed. You can also do a mantra recall if you let that go...even write out your mantra during the day or evening before sleep if that is easier.

woke in the night with recall too tired/lazy to record

This can be a balancing act with your sleep trouble at times...but this is what I was doing...getting a little lazy DJing and my recall started slipping.

Originally Posted by fogelbise

Make that: "the first 13 days of December this year were mostly a bust, but I got some experience, learned a thing or two and the rest of the month is going to be good/great (insert preference here!)."

Yes of course this is the preferred outlook . Brought out the nukes last night, 3mg melatonin, because an "adult animated discussion" ensued yet again right at bedtime and extended for at least an hour or more....sigh * 1000. Did get to sleep though, and had OK but not great recall across 2 wakings. Applied willpower (competition helped) to get some scenes recorded before going back to sleep. Man melatonin really packs a punch. That combined with the dark cold weather and I could sleep all day but unfortunately had to get up and do stuff. Will try for an afternoon nap.

Melatonin, as low dose as 3mgs may hinder your LDs. Just so you know. I understand sometimes you may need it. Good luck!

I successfully got myself to wake up 5 times last night, my usual mantras seem not to help, so I added "I wake up every 2 hours and recall my seams," and it worked. Lots of short dream scenes, the last waking had a longer continuous scene. That plus increased motivation from a tough competition lower division group with frequent lucid dreamers. Not much chance unless I get a whole bunch of lucids really soon.

And WTF, I saw myself in the mirror with 4 hair-curler sponges for lips ("your lips are really chapped" a DC told me, then I checked a mirror and my reaction looking at these curler sponge lips? "Wow yeah they're really chapped" DOH!). I had just exited a car (which we parked in the middle of a small office, I'm embarrassed about this and start pushing the car out!!), the car turned into a small child's push car, I'm moving it around, and I'm going on and on about how I really like small cars, how my first car was really small, etc., while moving this car around with my hands. Man, what does it take? And this was a late morning dream, where I usually get lucid. Man this is a wicked tough dry spell. Going on 3 weeks, need to find a way out.

Originally Posted by gab

Melatonin, as low dose as 3mgs may hinder your LDs. Just so you know. I understand sometimes you may need it. Good luck!

I've slept and dreamed with 3mg before when taking at bedtime. I felt like it was take the melatonin or lie awake tossing and turning all night, which leaves zero chance for LDs....

Originally Posted by FryingMan

I successfully got myself to wake up 5 times last night, my usual mantras seem not to help, so I added "I wake up every 2 hours and recall my seams," and it worked. Lots of short dream scenes, the last waking had a longer continuous scene. That plus increased motivation from a tough competition lower division group with frequent lucid dreamers. Not much chance unless I get a whole bunch of lucids really soon.

And WTF, I saw myself in the mirror with 4 hair-curler sponges for lips ("your lips are really chapped" a DC told me, then I checked a mirror and my reaction looking at these curler sponge lips? "Wow yeah they're really chapped" DOH!). I had just exited a car (which we parked in the middle of a small office, I'm embarrassed about this and start pushing the car out!!), the car turned into a small child's push car, I'm moving it around, and I'm going on and on about how I really like small cars, how my first car was really small, etc., while moving this car around with my hands. Man, what does it take? And this was a late morning dream, where I usually get lucid. Man this is a wicked tough dry spell. Going on 3 weeks, need to find a way out.

Sometimes it seems like our mind has no interest in doing anything but going along with the dream. It will become more consistent as long as you keep up your practices. I think I may have asked you this somewhere before, but do you feel like you are putting too much pressure on yourself during the competition? I don't know what it is, but I have read and possibly experienced myself that there can be such a thing as trying too hard or stressing over LDing if you sense that is happening at all. Edit: I think gab said it best in this specific post ://www.dreamviews.com/dild/147497-spds-workbook.html#post2063918

Originally Posted by fogelbise

Sometimes it seems like our mind has no interest in doing anything but going along with the dream. It will become more consistent as long as you keep up your practices. I think I may have asked you this somewhere before, but do you feel like you are putting too much pressure on yourself during the competition? I don't know what it is, but I have read and possibly experienced myself that there can be such a thing as trying too hard or stressing over LDing if you sense that is happening at all. Edit: I think gab said it best in this specific post ://www.dreamviews.com/dild/147497-spds-workbook.html#post2063918

Certainly there's a fine line between motivation, will, and stressing. But if I hadn't pushed myself last night I would have forgotten a lot of funny/weird/cool dream scenes. And there's so much more that I *know* I'm forgetting. I always try to stretch in recall waiting for those little bursts of memory that come in. And sometimes they come in after I've decided to go back to sleep, if they're significant I'll break out the journal again to note them down. Usually these little extra tidbits are just more detail on dreams I've already recorded.

Usually I'm slightly down in the morning without LDs or really interesting dreams, but that doesn't last long. I really enjoyed transcribing my journal entries today, some of them were REALLY wacky ("egg man"!)

It's tempting to think that I can *make* LDs happen through will alone, like with dream recall, if I can just find the right place/method to direct my will. Perhaps the will needs to go into places where I'm not yet successful, like a regular sleep schedule, which I have still not achieved. Or perhaps I need to relax. But I have been relaxing in the last few weeks mostly working only on sleep at night time, avoiding MILD and SSILD, and perhaps my dry spell is the result of that. Or perhaps the life stress and the sleep schedule.

Anyway, I know all will be fine again with the next LD, which I know is just around the corner! The only question is just how long is the street....?

Hopes are still high for a lightbulb going off with ADA/RC and a flood of LDs to follow. May take months, but I'm quite firm in that conviction, and keeping up the regular LD stuff (reflection/intention, visualisation, and working back in to MILD and SSILD). If sleep stays really good I may attempt a formal WILD again here and there, too, and maybe try to catch a fast falling asleep time with FILD.

Eensy weensy, teensy tiny quick LD last night . Almost don't feel like counting it since it was just seconds, but hey, lucid is lucid . May this be the opening of the LD floodgates!

Originally Posted by FryingMan

Eensy weensy, teensy tiny quick LD last night . Almost don't feel like counting it since it was just seconds, but hey, lucid is lucid . May this be the opening of the LD floodgates!

It's best to be hopeful! And who knows, your ambitions might just pick you up and take you to there destination. Good to hear you're making progress; so well done!

Keep at it buddy!

Originally Posted by FryingMan

Eensy weensy, teensy tiny quick LD last night . Almost don't feel like counting it since it was just seconds, but hey, lucid is lucid . May this be the opening of the LD floodgates!

Awesome FryingMan!! Congrats breaking the dry spell, and I can definitely see it opening the floodgates! Keep up the positive attitude and expectations!

Previous day...

Perhaps the will needs to go into places where I'm not yet successful, like a regular sleep schedule, which I have still not achieved. Or perhaps I need to relax. But I have been relaxing in the last few weeks mostly working only on sleep at night time, avoiding MILD and SSILD, and perhaps my dry spell is the result of that. Or perhaps the life stress and the sleep schedule.

I would be willing to bet that all of these things played a part.

Anyway, I know all will be fine again with the next LD, which I know is just around the corner! The only question is just how long is the street....?

Sure enough!

Hopes are still high for a lightbulb going off with ADA/RC and a flood of LDs to follow. May take months, but I'm quite firm in that conviction, and keeping up the regular LD stuff (reflection/intention, visualisation, and working back in to MILD and SSILD).

All good stuff! Try turning any hopes into expectations (without pressure)...just know that you got this!