Thread: Extremely odd Lucid ability.

Interesting. I'll try that technique. Thanks.

This is still something I really want to do, I see no reason why it cant work, as long as I use some sort of schemata to achieve it

Originally Posted by Dark_Merlin

I see no reason why it cant work

It seems plausible to you that he perfectly remembers what he learned last week in school, after he woke up from a dream in which he literally felt two years passing?

http://www.dreamviews.com/f11/extrem...ml#post1705083

http://www.dreamviews.com/f11/extrem...ml#post1706650

I'm not really going to spend my time analyzing and determining the plausibility of this post. We won't know for sure if this is actually true or not until you try it yourself. However, it does seem like a cool idea to try. It might be hard to dilate time to the point where you can experience 2 years in one night but apparently people can experience dreams in various speeds. Perhaps this method might be a good idea for people wanting to extend their dream time to a certain degree.

So, in these two years, if you were lucid.
Why did you choose to sleep and settle into a rut?

Originally Posted by TheShadow

The brain, while mysterious, is still a physical thing with physical limitations. Most of the brain doesn't even use electricity (which is much faster than what (sodium ions?) the brain uses) (not a neurobiologist, dont quote me, but ive done some bio classes).

You have to consider that a dream is basicly a bunch of data. Think of it like a computer. Your computer can only process so many things at once, or in a certain amount of time. The brain is exceptionally efficient at processing this data and compressing it in strange ways, and so it is completely concievable that the brain could create a dream faster than it could process reality (limitations of the eyes and nose and whatnot, or simply idling until more things are needed to be done at once).

That being said, even the brain has limitations, and for it to produce (not just interpret) two entire years worth of information all in one night (probably less than one hour, because your REM cycles dont last all night in a normal human), is almost beyond belief for me. Doing the math, one hour has 60 minutes, which have 60m*60 seconds (3600s) ... two years have (2y * 365.25d * 24h * 60m * 60s) (approx) 63,115,200s, which means for every one second of the (approx) hour that the brain sleeps, it needs to process 17,532 (63,000,000s/3600s) times the data (assuming it recreates all of the information it would normally interpret while awake).

This does not seem realistic to me, so the brain is either using a significantly reduced quality of senses and thought and other things i am not qualified to even guess at during dreams, or the majority of our brain is lying dormant while we are awake (which also does not seem realistic because what purpose, evolutionarily, would it serve to have such high brain function during dreams, where no reproduction can happen? It seems to just be a massive drain on energy supplies with no benefit)

TL;DR:
Doesnt seem plausible that a dream could be 2 years in one REM cycle (or one night), likely the brain skipped a lot of parts and just interpreted it as two years being passed. Interesting regardless.

Anywho, thats my twenty minutes of drunken thought for tonight, hope yall enjoy. Correct my math (or logic) if you find an error lol, but dont be surprised if I try to argue if I think you're wrong.

Finally, I'm not here to argue evolution (macro or micro) (its been PROVEN in MANY laboratories, and I BELIEVE it, whether you do or not), if you want to learn more about it, just google evolution and read the wiki or something, there is so much information about it it would be a waste of time and completely redundant (nevermind inefficient) for me to explain it.

The problem with this conclusion is that it assumes that the mind and brain are one, and therefore all experience must be limited by the mechanical constraints of the brain.

We have no proof of this, only correlations, and as any scientist will tell you correlation is not causation. IMO, The materialist model that consciousness is mere brain activity is fatally flawed in many ways. It annoys me, because this fundamental assumption is the primary reason that people dismiss the time distortion phenomenon. (It can't be true, that's not possible for the brain!)

There are actually many tales of a radically altered sense of time. Aside from lucid dreaming, it's also known to be commonly experienced when using certain drugs, such as Mescaline. It's not uncommon for mescaline users to describe having experienced lifetimes, ages, or oceans of time in a mere moment. There's a good short movie clip on this subject called 'the mescaline experiment'.

@People who say the brain can't handle this: Look at a simple fly. Nothing fancy about it, it's just a fly. BUT, have you ever tried to swat a fly? It's nearly impossible unless you find one that's injured. Your hand is probably 50 times bigger than it is, and the width is probably 10+ times bigger than the fly is. So, in the ~.5 seconds it takes to slap your arm and try to kill the fly, it has already seen the hand coming, analyzes the situation, and moves at least 5 times it's body length in half a second or less.

Now, i know that a fly is not a person, but a fly still has a brain. Sure, you could say that a fly has a smaller brain so the signals have a shorter distance, but i don't think the sizes between neurotransmitters are very different. I'd say the brain is perfectly capable of handling time dilation in excess of a couple years over a 45 minutes REM cycle.

Now i am very sorry to bring back an old thread but i have a very pressing question. Reading through this whole post i believe that many will come to the conclusion that time dilation is plausible but what im wondering is given that this is possible what could stop your brain from doing this itself? i have heard stories of guys who has dreams where they relived false awakening after false awakening and when they tried to wake up they would simply wake up into another dream and these lasted for what seemed like hours to them. So how do we know that something kind of like the plot of inceptions "limbo" does not exist or to a lesser extent just being stuck in a dream and not being able to wake up?

The things you can experience in a LD that about 20 minutes is amazing enough and the realizations and experiences you can come back with are usually very interesting and worth sharing. I would imagine if you had a TWO YEAR LD you would come back with astonishing revelations and tales beyond comprehension worth filling volumes of books. You would be a demi-God amongst men

That said, I haven't heard anything about what the OP experienced so I have my doubts that it's true, lol.

Fun to think about though.

I know for sure that time dilation is possible - it happened to me when I was about 15 at school. We were messing about with deliberately fainting. Basically you hyperventilate for about a minute then blow really hard with your mouth closed and nose blocked. That puts pressure on the blood vessels to your brain I guess, and you can faint.
Anyway, I did this and fainted. I immediately had a very vivid dream where I was on a train platform and watched the train come in. The train stopped and people got off. I estimate at least 10 minutes of very vivid dream (not lucid). When I woke I asked how long I had been out, and my friends said about 1-2 seconds max!
I couldn't believe how long I had appeared to dream for.

My theory about this is that we actually live in the now, so our perception of how long we have been doing something is our memory of the immediate past, but that is a very flexible thing and the past perception can be skewed. Sure, you might have lots of memories of things you have done in the immediate past, but the real time that has elapsed could be very short, you just think they must be over a longer period.

I'm thinking that since you're in just a white room and focusing on a clock, you're "overriding" the changing of the dream scene which makes it feel like a long period of time. This happened to me the other night where all of my dreams scene changed, but my dreams were still connected and felt like one long dream.

If that doesn't make since, sorry, literally just woke up and got my coffee.

Wait wait wait. What if he's not manipulating his perception of time, but the speed or pace of the dream? I mean if your a part of the dream, lucid or not, couldn't you make the dream pace faster, making it feel like longer amounts of time and slower for less amounts while still feeling like its normal speed? Being that you're a part of it?

I mean, time perception is pretty hard to manipulate, I try all the time at work. (You know trying to ignore time to make it go faster or doing a crap ton extra work.) But I fainted once (somebody mentioned this above) and the same experience happened to me. So my thought on the subject is simply speeding up the pace of the dream, but you're going at the same rate. Its like this; my dream recall is probably a 10/10 on how well I am with keeping up with it, yet sometimes I only get a couple of paragraphs because one dream focused so much on one thing or vice versa, I get nearly five pages because so much happened. Maybe the deeper the sleep, the faster paced the dreams are. I'm kind of just picking at the idea.

I believe those that can't grasp it should think of it like this. You can't explain the third dimension to someone/something living in the second dimension. It's just like how we can't grasp the idea of infinity completely. So, in a way, he was "dreaming in the 4th dimension."

Originally Posted by Skullyy

I watch the clock in the dream, just me, white endlessness and my blue digital clock. The idea behind it might be hard to get, but the training it for it just takes the ability to not succumb to extreme boredom. Its very simple, yet it takes a lot of will power to just sit there.

One of the experiences I had in my dream life, I'm 15 and only a freshy in highschool btw, one clear one that sticks out to me was when I burned down my highschool, ya kinda sad... But something odd I just cant remember about my dream is when I sleep in my dream.. Inception?? Going into a dream in my dream? I'll post tomorrow what its like, I need a reminder so I'll extend my dream at least a day.

And its funny you say that dragon ball z thing, thats sorta what gave me my inspiration for the setting.

Interesting. I would never think that a person would become "tired" in a dream. Seeing as that you dont exert energy.

I don't mean to be rude or doubt your ability, but are you sure you were really extending active dream time, or did you just have the feeling that you were extending time? I actually think I understand this. Dreams can cause all sorts of illusionary things, not only in our senses but in our perceptions as well, including our perception of time. The best example is in waking life, like if you sit there waiting in a hospital for six hours and you stare at the clock the whole time, it will feel like forever for those hours to tick away and for you to finally get your appointment, but if you sit there and play on your phone keeping your mind occupied the time will pass away in the blink of an eye. Since you have been sitting there training your self to stare at this clock, you are enforcing a new perception of time, a perception of "boredom in the hospital" time. You have trained your brain to be in a longer active state, you are consciously aware of time longer than most of us by training your self to focus on it, essentially time "appears" to be going slower for you and that is being reflected in your dreams. You are dreaming of being in the hospital, staring at the clock waiting for your appointment, since you're lucid you are able to maintain the dream, and like what happens in waking life you aren't allowing your brain to get distracted by all the things going on around you. You aren't really extending time but perhaps becoming more aware of just how much time actually takes place inside the dream world!

This is amazing stuff! I'm really intrigued and I can't thank you enough for posting this! I'm tempted to paint my walls white and get a giant clock and just sit there staring at it constantly because I'm positive that over time, just like reality checks, I too can train my self to have longer active lucid states! Truly amazing stuff!

Originally Posted by Viperex

Interesting. I would never think that a person would become "tired" in a dream. Seeing as that you dont exert energy.

I have had many dreams lucid and non were I'm so tierd in the dream I give up on my goals

I know, its cool to have lucid dream for two years, but how do we know you telling the truth.

Interesting.

The problem I have with this however is, going by my own experience in LDing and from what I've read of the experiences of Laberge, Waggoner and many other regular LDers, the general consensus seems to be after a Lucid goes over around the 30 minute mark, the memory of the beginning starts to get a little hazy upon waking, and I have always had excellent Dream Recall.
How much of a Lucid lasting only 1 whole day could really be expected to be remembered?
I'd think the memory from 2 years could only be the highlights at best, and then how would you know the highlights were not all you really Dreamed?

I've never tried this myself though so what do I know, I'll give it a try and see if I make any progress.

Ok, tried this twice last night.
The first time I imagined a clock and just looked at it, after about 5 seconds the second hand started going backwards, then all the hands started going all over the clock jumping to different times over and over.
After doing this for another 30 seconds or so the hands started sort of drooping or wilting like limp flowers and then continued to jump around.

I woke within about only 2 minutes of watching the clock and know the Lucid would have been much longer had I gone about it in my normal way, it is only the first try though.

2nd attempt was on my very last Dream of the night so they're always very easy to lose anyway.
I found a clock in a white room even though I wasn't trying, it was just there so I started watching it, after only about 5 seconds though I lost the Dream and woke up.
Like I say that Lucid wouldn't have lasted long whatever I was doing so that attempt doesn't really say much.

Tried again last night.

From what I can tell already, just watching a clock tick away in a Lucid Dream is easier said than done!
I came round in bed and knew I was Dreaming so Flew out my window and down my street, I landed and looked for a clock and found one through the back window of a car.
I started watching it but after only a few seconds the second hand stopped and no hands were moving, I just started counting the seconds out loud and after 36 seconds the second hand started moving 15 seconds at a time and kept doing this.
The hour hand then disappeared and it was pretty useless watching it any more.
I counted to 3 minutes but you might as well just stand and count rather than find a clock as there's no point really looking at it.

The 3 minutes felt just like a normal waking 3 minutes and no time dilation happened or anything.
I know I haven't given it much of a chance but already it feels very unlikely this will make it work, I'm not saying time dilation in Dreams can't happen, I just don't think this is the way, for me anyway.

Originally Posted by Mr0Blonde

Tried again last night.

From what I can tell already, just watching a clock tick away in a Lucid Dream is easier said than done!
I came round in bed and knew I was Dreaming so Flew out my window and down my street, I landed and looked for a clock and found one through the back window of a car.
I started watching it but after only a few seconds the second hand stopped and no hands were moving, I just started counting the seconds out loud and after 36 seconds the second hand started moving 15 seconds at a time and kept doing this.
The hour hand then disappeared and it was pretty useless watching it any more.
I counted to 3 minutes but you might as well just stand and count rather than find a clock as there's no point really looking at it.

The 3 minutes felt just like a normal waking 3 minutes and no time dilation happened or anything.
I know I haven't given it much of a chance but already it feels very unlikely this will make it work, I'm not saying time dilation in Dreams can't happen, I just don't think this is the way, for me anyway.

Have you tried creating the white, empty environment and looking at a DIGITAL clock, as OP described in the first place?

I HAVE EXPERIENCED THIS TOO!!!!! I was in a non-lucid dream for what felt like a school year. I dreamt I was in my first year of high school, I met a girl, i had bad grades that i made better later, i met friends, i played sports, had parties, played music with a band. I did all this stuff. I was living a totally different life in someone else's body. I knew at first that it was a dream because i was someone else. But then the world grew on me and it became my reality. I'm sure the dream was only 10 hours or so. But you know how they say that you day walk? like you're only actually paying attention to the important sections of your life and then acting like a zombie through the monotonous parts. It was like the memories of a year were implanted into my head, and i only actually experienced the important parts of the year, which added up to only a few hours. And since 10 dream hours is more like 5 real hours it is totally possible to achieve in a long nights sleep! Of coarse I was freaked the heck out when I woke up, not to mention really missed my girlfriend

Hangauw.

Must have missed that part about it being DIGITAL, I assumed it would be a clock with hands seeing as anyone with any experience in Lucid Dreaming knows that Letters and Numbers can be very tricky to watch even for brief moments of time.

The white room thing I can't see making any difference what so ever!
Why would the colour of the room change anything?
If there was anything to this technique it would surly have something to do with you just having complete concentration on something without any distractions, not the type of clock or colour of room you are in.

Originally Posted by Mr0Blonde

Hangauw.

Must have missed that part about it being DIGITAL, I assumed it would be a clock with hands seeing as anyone with any experience in Lucid Dreaming knows that Letters and Numbers can be very tricky to watch even for brief moments of time.

The white room thing I can't see making any difference what so ever!
Why would the colour of the room change anything?
If there was anything to this technique it would surly have something to do with you just having complete concentration on something without any distractions, not the type of clock or colour of room you are in.

I think it's just, in OP's opinion, the best way to fully concentrate on the clock. But then again, as you mentioned, numbers and letters can be very tricky in a LD.
I might give it a go soon, as I can happily announce that I just had my first two LD's ,two nights in a row, using the WILD technique. Very excited for future experiences!