Would you live a Dream ?

[CheapFiction]

Lets say that there was a way to sleep forever and everyone can join into your dream. Like a game in a way. The rules are the same.There are no rules. You can do whatever you want with no consequence. Would you rather live in a dreamworld forever or would you prefer the real world ? My friend asked me this question this morning and it got me thinking. I mean you could be anything - A dinosaur hunter with a purpil laser that shoots flowers and chocolate, or you could be a vampire sucking on the blood of little kids that escaped into your dreamworld hahaha, you could be anything ! My answer would be that it sounds interesting indeed but i think there would be no order and everything would just be very, well weird. But on the other hand i think it would be pretty awesome and something i would have hoped to be possible. Whats your answer ? ( May it be as simple as the question )

[Zoth]

In my opinion, it's fun to do impossible things in my dreams exactly because of that: they are impossible. Would rather not that make that reality into my every-day scenario, because it would loose the majority of it's value. People that were born rich having everything they wanted certainly do not value money as some one who worked hard to earn it. Besides, I think the goal here is as important as the reward. After meeting people here that took months (or years!) to induce their first lucid dream, I think the dream and the real world would just switches sides to something like this: - Your life is in a dream world, where everything was possible. How about practing a method to acess another reality where you really have to battle to make things come true ?

[nito89]

gonna have to agree with zoth00 LD'ing is so much fun because its our own reality, with different laws from the one we live in. I mean, itd be fun to have an extended dream, like maybe a week long or something, if there was a way to do that. But i dont think id choose to live out my life in a dream.

[Darkmatters]

This has already been asked - probably many times, and was just as poorly worded then. Poorly thought out rather. Need. More. Input. What about your body? Is it being cared for, fed and cleaned up? How isn't important I suppose, as long as it is. Would your body continue to age? I assume not since you said forever. Or are you talking about completely discarding the body altogether, as in life after death? So, are we talking technology or magic? Or spirituality? In order to make such a choice at all meaningful these questions are important. Also important - what about loved ones etc... would you have to leave them behind? Is there a chance you'd encounter them in your dream? The real them, or just DCs? Maybe a better question would be "When you die would you rather just cease to be or enter into an endless dream like an MMORPG in which everyone else who ever lived is there?" No sleeping body to worry about, all loved ones and enemies present, you can find them if you want, and they can find you if they want. Next question - would this be like a full-on lucid dream with complete awareness and control, or a regular non-lucid dream, or possibly cycling from one extreme to the other (I rather like that option). Does this dream world have linear continuity as waking life does, or nonlocality and nonlinearity, as dreams tend to? Next question - am I overthinking it? It's just that these choices can be very intriguing, like a Twilight Zone episode, but vitally important information is missing. Nobody would ever make such an important decision on such vague info unless they were forced to, and then it would be basically flipping a coin. ** edit ** Ok, I think this might be a better scenario: Let's say there's some invention that will allow you to enter into an eternal dream world when you die. Your mind remains aware and dreaming while your body dies. It could be a technique, or maybe a drug or something. A red pill maybe idk. You can carry it with you and use it when crisis strikes - if you're in a terrible debilitating accident or grow old and your quality of life declines terribly or you lose a loved one or become terribly depressed or insane or whatever - in other words any time you'd rather be dead. But here's the catch - this raises the question - if this (technology technique or whatever) allows the mind to live on after the body dies, does that mean there is such a thing as life after death? And if so, what is its nature? In other words, by taking this option you might be forever trading away the possibility of going on to Heaven or Nirvanna, reincarnating, or what-have-you. Now - what do you do? What do you do?

[nito89]

Wow, see Darkmatters has been thinking about this a lot, Id say if you were in a sort of endless MMO dream, i think you would have bouts of lucidity, i also think you would lose lucidity without staying focused and who knows how long it would be before you regained it!

[ShadowOfSelf]

Living one right now, more of a nightmare though, endless killings, racism, ignorance poverty and war. On-top of that i cant wake up. And thats if i even do wake up.

[Darkmatters]

Living one right now, more of a nightmare though, endless killings, racism, ignorance poverty and war. On-top of that i cant wake up. And thats if i even do wake up. Wow you must be in a bad neighborhood...

[Avalanche]

I'm going to be different and just say I would live in the dream world. First off you cut out all the bad parts. People will say "hurr durr it makes life richer and more complex". Booshit. It makes it worse, that's why they are called "bad things". Second, as you said friends and that can visit you in your dream world. That would eliminate the problem of becoming lonely with dream characters. Also if we were in the dream world forever, either forever forever or just til you die, then it doesn't really matter what happens to your body, you are not coming back. Since it's a dream I would assume you won't age if you don't want to. Being in a dreamworld wouldn't have to get boring. Yes, you can do anything, but you don't have to do anything. You can limit yourself to no flying or teleportation or whatever, so it's like real life physics, but in a dreamworld, so there are flying cars and dinosaurs and all that stuff. And when you want to you can just fly away or whatever. If I was given that chance I would take it. This life is just the same, but less interesting, more depressing, no control and is pretty much bleak and repeated every year. In a dream you can do one thing for a day and another for 3 years, you can become different things and have control over the dream world, or none at all, but still be able to stop it if things did go wrong.

[nito89]

Interesting point, but the fact that you KNOW its not real, at least for me makes it fun for a while, but not forever.

[ShadowOfSelf]

Wow you must be in a bad neighborhood... Its quite bad, not to that extreme I meant the world in general

[CheapFiction]

This has already been asked - probably many times, and was just as poorly worded then. Poorly thought out rather. Need. More. Input. What about your body? Is it being cared for, fed and cleaned up? How isn't important I suppose, as long as it is. Would your body continue to age? I assume not since you said forever. Or are you talking about completely discarding the body altogether, as in life after death? So, are we talking technology or magic? Or spirituality? In order to make such a choice at all meaningful these questions are important. Also important - what about loved ones etc... would you have to leave them behind? Is there a chance you'd encounter them in your dream? The real them, or just DCs? Maybe a better question would be "When you die would you rather just cease to be or enter into an endless dream like an MMORPG in which everyone else who ever lived is there?" No sleeping body to worry about, all loved ones and enemies present, you can find them if you want, and they can find you if they want. Next question - would this be like a full-on lucid dream with complete awareness and control, or a regular non-lucid dream, or possibly cycling from one extreme to the other (I rather like that option). Does this dream world have linear continuity as waking life does, or nonlocality and nonlinearity, as dreams tend to? Next question - am I overthinking it? It's just that these choices can be very intriguing, like a Twilight Zone episode, but vitally important information is missing. Nobody would ever make such an important decision on such vague info unless they were forced to, and then it would be basically flipping a coin. ** edit ** Ok, I think this might be a better scenario: In other words, by taking this option you might be forever trading away the possibility of going on to Heaven or Nirvanna, reincarnating, or what-have-you. Now - what do you do? What do you do? Now if there was a possibility of living in a dreamworld forever the people that would usually make that choice to live their would either not want to see their families ,hence loved ones or they would want to create new loved ones. ( as we are talking about a seriously realistic dream where you can create whatever comes to your mind , hence loved ones ) In a dreamworld you yourself are the judge of whether you want to age or not. I mean you don't even have to be human because you can be whatever comes to mind. And yes it would be a full on lucid dream because i guess if you want to were to be able to live in a dream forever the only way for you to live there FOREVER would if the dream was atleast vivid enough, in a way real-like. Also i guess you are over thinking about who will look after your body, feed and cleaning you. If this option of living in a dreamworld was possible then we would have been able to take care of our bodies before we start life in the dreamworld. I don't think anyone would be that careless. And living in this dreamworld could be a choice as opposed to going to heaven,hell or reincarnating or whatever you believe in. I think i may have answered all of your questions but I'm not completely sure

[Grexxis]

Hell yes!!! IMO, I think your talking about death... lol

[Pandabear]

gonna have to agree with zoth00 LD'ing is so much fun because its our own reality, with different laws from the one we live in. I mean, itd be fun to have an extended dream, like maybe a week long or something, if there was a way to do that. But i dont think id choose to live out my life in a dream. Living one right now, more of a nightmare though, endless killings, racism, ignorance poverty and war. On-top of that i cant wake up. And thats if i even do wake up. That's my thoughts - I agree. ^^

[Puffin]

No, I wouldn't want to. There wouldn't be the satisfaction of actually having to work for anything because you can simply summon it; everything is always at your fingertips, which doesn't sound that fun. Sure, it might be fun for a while, but after you'll probably start to become weary of the whole idea.

[Darkmatters]

Hrrrmmmm - I think you misunderstood what I was trying to do. I wasn't asking you to make arbitrary choices - I was trying to refine the original scenario a bit to make it a more interesting and meaningful question. With all the loose ends there's no way anyone can answer it without just making things up to try to fill in the gaps. See, whenever this question comes up, it always reminds me of those old "deal with the devil" stories, where some mysterious stranger shows up at a crisis moment in someone's life and offers them some magical solution to all their problems, but then in the end they get screwed because the "perfect solution" always contains some hidden twist that wasn't made clear in the deal. Ever seen Bedazzled? The original with Dudley Moore and Raquel Welch is far superior, but even the new piece of crap with Brendan Fraser still has the same setup. Now if there was a possibility of living in a dreamworld forever the people that would usually make that choice to live their would either not want to see their families ,hence loved ones or they would want to create new loved ones. ( as we are talking about a seriously realistic dream where you can create whatever comes to your mind , hence loved ones ) Why would you assume that? The whole point of a question like this is how each person answers it and what their reasoning is. But here you're pre-loading it and only offering the choice to a small group of people in a very clearly defined life circumstance. I think if a person is facing a lifetime of unbearable pain they might choose to take the red pill, even if it means leaving loved ones behind - especially knowing that they'll still be able to see those loved ones in the dream (DC versions of them of course, until the loved ones themselves take the pill later, or perhaps the real loved ones when they're dreaming - maybe everyone enters into this dream while they're in REM?) In a dreamworld you yourself are the judge of whether you want to age or not. I mean you don't even have to be human because you can be whatever comes to mind. Ok, so you're proposing a fully lucid experience at all times it sounds like. With pretty good control. And yes it would be a full on lucid dream because i guess if you want to were to be able to live in a dream forever the only way for you to live there FOREVER would if the dream was atleast vivid enough, in a way real-like. Well that doesn't necessarily follow. At all. (Why do I suddenly feel like Xei? ) I think you just arbitrarily made that choice and here you're trying to justify it. There's no need to justify it - if you're making the scenario you can set it up however you want and needn't explain why. What's important is that you be able to answer those nagging loose-end questions that people will want to know before committing to something like this. As the person presenting the question, YOU are the mysterious stranger. The people responding on this thread are your "customers". Before committing to this deal, they'll want certain questions answered to their satisfaction. What you're offering is eternal life in a dream world. The cost? They'll never get to find out what really exists beyond the veil of death - they could be missing out on Heaven or possibly escaping an eternity of suffering in Hell or who knows what? Also i guess you are over thinking about who will look after your body, feed and cleaning you. No, I was merely telling you that if you present this choice to people, this is one of the first questions they'll have, and one to which you need to be able to present an answer. I might wonder for instance "If I take the red pill, will my body be shitting and pissing itself in bed until I starve or die of dehydration? And then someone will have to discover it and deal with that nasty memory all their lives - who? My neighbor? A family member? Police? Who will take care of my (dog, cats, children etc)? These are real world questions that people will need an answer to before they can even think meaningfully about a choice like this. See, I'm a writer, and I think these things through to their logical conclusion when they come up. You have to, otherwise they're meaningless. But from this: If this option of living in a dreamworld was possible then we would have been able to take care of our bodies before we start life in the dreamworld. I don't think anyone would be that careless. It seems you're assuming something that's not presented in the question itself. (Dammit Xei, stay out of my head!!! ) Therefore the original question needs to be modified to include this info. It sounds like you're suggesting there's either some technology that renders the problem of the body obsolete, or possibly suggesting that some spiritual thing does away with that problem. But just saying "Don't worry about it - we wouldn't be that careless" does nothing to allay my questions. Its like if I'm entering into serious surgery and have questions ofr the doctors that are extremely relevant to my wellbeing and they just say "Ah, don't worry about that - we got it all covered". An answer like that would tend to make me walk out of the consulting office and look for another doctor! I'm offering these suggestions only in order to help refine the question into something that works better, that people can really sink their teeth into when they answer without having to assume so much. As it is, everyone seems to have a completely different idea of what's being offered. I notice in your profile you're interested in philosophy, so look at this as a philosophy problem. Now all this said, I can't claim to being much of a philosopher or philosophy student myself, just a writer of strange fiction who has learned a few things about how to weave a tale without leaving the readers hopelessly confused (not that I always manage to do that!). Heh - it's always easier to point out flaws and make suggestions in somebody elses work than to fix my own!! So essentially what I'm saying is you should have something in mind that takes care of the body problem so when people naturally ask it you can lay their fears to rest and allow them to stop obsessing over that and think about the choice more clearly. Example you could say that this is an endgame technique that would be undertaken in a hospital and when the body dies it will be taken care of efficiently, or that it will be kept alive indefinitely by nursing staff or machines. Or you could say the body will die naturally whenever and wherever you take the pill (or whatever it is) and need to be disposed of, in which case people would have to make decisions concerning where/when/how to die and how to deal with people finding the body. This whole question hinges on one very important aspect - is your scenario supernatural or natural? ie, can the mind continue to dream when the body is dead? If so that raises other questions... for example the life after death one I proposed earlier. Because if we now know that the mind can exist independently of the body, that lends strong credence to many things including astral projection, OBE, and life after death, and makes people think very seriously about ideas concerning the afterlife. To me THIS is the aspect that make it the most interesting... how will people deal with these choices once they accept the fact that, in this scenario, it's been proven that life after death is possible. Would they decide to change their lives now and try to aim for heaven? Or opt for the neverending dream and hope to escape any moral ramifications of afterlife? Hmmm yeah, prolly overthinking here! But this is exactly where my mind leaps to as soon as this question is asked. And living in this dreamworld could be a choice as opposed to going to heaven,hell or reincarnating or whatever you believe in. Yes, this is exactly my point! It is a choice, that must be made by each individual, and their reasons for making the choice they do are what can make this an interesting thread. As long as they understand the ramifications of their choices. I think i may have answered all of your questions but I'm not completely sure I wasn't so much asking you to come up with answers on th spot arbitrarily, but trying to nudge you into thinking more deeply about the actual meanings behind the question and refine it a bit. Wow, sorry for total tl;dr wall o text! ** edit ** And now I must add even a bit more to it so Nina doesn't banhammer me for double posting! Originally Posted by ShadowOfSelf: Living one right now, more of a nightmare though, endless killings, racism, ignorance poverty and war. On-top of that i cant wake up. And thats if i even do wake up. Originally Posted by Pandabear: That's my thoughts - I agree. ^^ Wow guys, that's a pretty bleak and negative view of things!! SEriously - so you watch the news and accept all the bad things as elements of your own word, but somehow you don't accept the immense beauty of life as yours? The moments of utter bliss and perfection? The simple joys? Petting a puppydog? Eating peanutbutter and syrup sandwiches? (yes, they're damn good!) If you're going to expand your consciousness to include all the bad news happening around the world, then isn't it also fair to include all the good things?

[Robot_Butler]

Impossible question. Part of the reason dreams are so free is because you know there are no consequences to your actions. You do not share the dream with any real people other than yourself, so your actions can only harm or help yourself. I could never live in this selfish reality forever, because I would starve from the lack of real human interaction. Unfortunately, if you could somehow bring real people into the experience, you would lose the freedom to do whatever you wanted. Your actions would have consequences, and responsibility would creep in.

[Avalanche]

Well someones taken this very seriously.

[Puffin]

Impossible question. Part of the reason dreams are so free is because you know there are no consequences to your actions. You do not share the dream with any real people other than yourself, so your actions can only harm or help yourself. I could never live in this selfish reality forever, because I would starve from the lack of real human interaction. Unfortunately, if you could somehow bring real people into the experience, you would lose the freedom to do whatever you wanted. Your actions would have consequences, and responsibility would creep in. Very well said; I totally agree with this!

[Darkmatters]

Well someones taken this very seriously. It's actually a very serious philosophical conundrum that most people are taking very lightly.

[Ilumirath]

Dreams transcend reality, so I would. But I want to be alone no other people...

[LuMikkel]

My life's a piece of sh*t. If I could live an eternal dream I would be sooo happy.. especially considering how often I wake up disappointed at how my life is nothing like the dream I just had.

[CheapFiction]

Hrrrmmmm - I think you misunderstood what I was trying to do. I wasn't asking you to make arbitrary choices - I was trying to refine the original scenario a bit to make it a more interesting and meaningful question. With all the loose ends there's no way anyone can answer it without just making things up to try to fill in the gaps. See, whenever this question comes up, it always reminds me of those old "deal with the devil" stories, where some mysterious stranger shows up at a crisis moment in someone's life and offers them some magical solution to all their problems, but then in the end they get screwed because the "perfect solution" always contains some hidden twist that wasn't made clear in the deal. Ever seen Bedazzled? The original with Dudley Moore and Raquel Welch is far superior, but even the new piece of crap with Brendan Fraser still has the same setup. Why would you assume that? The whole point of a question like this is how each person answers it and what their reasoning is. But here you're pre-loading it and only offering the choice to a small group of people in a very clearly defined life circumstance. I think if a person is facing a lifetime of unbearable pain they might choose to take the red pill, even if it means leaving loved ones behind - especially knowing that they'll still be able to see those loved ones in the dream (DC versions of them of course, until the loved ones themselves take the pill later, or perhaps the real loved ones when they're dreaming - maybe everyone enters into this dream while they're in REM?) Ok, so you're proposing a fully lucid experience at all times it sounds like. With pretty good control. Well that doesn't necessarily follow. At all. (Why do I suddenly feel like Xei? ) I think you just arbitrarily made that choice and here you're trying to justify it. There's no need to justify it - if you're making the scenario you can set it up however you want and needn't explain why. What's important is that you be able to answer those nagging loose-end questions that people will want to know before committing to something like this. As the person presenting the question, YOU are the mysterious stranger. The people responding on this thread are your "customers". Before committing to this deal, they'll want certain questions answered to their satisfaction. What you're offering is eternal life in a dream world. The cost? They'll never get to find out what really exists beyond the veil of death - they could be missing out on Heaven or possibly escaping an eternity of suffering in Hell or who knows what? No, I was merely telling you that if you present this choice to people, this is one of the first questions they'll have, and one to which you need to be able to present an answer. I might wonder for instance "If I take the red pill, will my body be shitting and pissing itself in bed until I starve or die of dehydration? And then someone will have to discover it and deal with that nasty memory all their lives - who? My neighbor? A family member? Police? Who will take care of my (dog, cats, children etc)? These are real world questions that people will need an answer to before they can even think meaningfully about a choice like this. See, I'm a writer, and I think these things through to their logical conclusion when they come up. You have to, otherwise they're meaningless. But from this: It seems you're assuming something that's not presented in the question itself. (Dammit Xei, stay out of my head!!! ) Therefore the original question needs to be modified to include this info. It sounds like you're suggesting there's either some technology that renders the problem of the body obsolete, or possibly suggesting that some spiritual thing does away with that problem. But just saying "Don't worry about it - we wouldn't be that careless" does nothing to allay my questions. Its like if I'm entering into serious surgery and have questions ofr the doctors that are extremely relevant to my wellbeing and they just say "Ah, don't worry about that - we got it all covered". An answer like that would tend to make me walk out of the consulting office and look for another doctor! I'm offering these suggestions only in order to help refine the question into something that works better, that people can really sink their teeth into when they answer without having to assume so much. As it is, everyone seems to have a completely different idea of what's being offered. I notice in your profile you're interested in philosophy, so look at this as a philosophy problem. Now all this said, I can't claim to being much of a philosopher or philosophy student myself, just a writer of strange fiction who has learned a few things about how to weave a tale without leaving the readers hopelessly confused (not that I always manage to do that!). Heh - it's always easier to point out flaws and make suggestions in somebody elses work than to fix my own!! So essentially what I'm saying is you should have something in mind that takes care of the body problem so when people naturally ask it you can lay their fears to rest and allow them to stop obsessing over that and think about the choice more clearly. Example you could say that this is an endgame technique that would be undertaken in a hospital and when the body dies it will be taken care of efficiently, or that it will be kept alive indefinitely by nursing staff or machines. Or you could say the body will die naturally whenever and wherever you take the pill (or whatever it is) and need to be disposed of, in which case people would have to make decisions concerning where/when/how to die and how to deal with people finding the body. This whole question hinges on one very important aspect - is your scenario supernatural or natural? ie, can the mind continue to dream when the body is dead? If so that raises other questions... for example the life after death one I proposed earlier. Because if we now know that the mind can exist independently of the body, that lends strong credence to many things including astral projection, OBE, and life after death, and makes people think very seriously about ideas concerning the afterlife. To me THIS is the aspect that make it the most interesting... how will people deal with these choices once they accept the fact that, in this scenario, it's been proven that life after death is possible. Would they decide to change their lives now and try to aim for heaven? Or opt for the neverending dream and hope to escape any moral ramifications of afterlife? Hmmm yeah, prolly overthinking here! But this is exactly where my mind leaps to as soon as this question is asked. Yes, this is exactly my point! It is a choice, that must be made by each individual, and their reasons for making the choice they do are what can make this an interesting thread. As long as they understand the ramifications of their choices. I wasn't so much asking you to come up with answers on th spot arbitrarily, but trying to nudge you into thinking more deeply about the actual meanings behind the question and refine it a bit. Wow, sorry for total tl;dr wall o text! ** edit ** And now I must add even a bit more to it so Nina doesn't banhammer me for double posting! Wow guys, that's a pretty bleak and negative view of things!! SEriously - so you watch the news and accept all the bad things as elements of your own word, but somehow you don't accept the immense beauty of life as yours? The moments of utter bliss and perfection? The simple joys? Petting a puppydog? Eating peanutbutter and syrup sandwiches? (yes, they're damn good!) If you're going to expand your consciousness to include all the bad news happening around the world, then isn't it also fair to include all the good things? Ok i read the book you bestowed upon me and you have a lot of valid points. But the question wasn't meant to be realistic ( like a dream). You don't have to care about loved ones or if anybody is wiping your behind when your dreaming. Thats just over thinking. If i would have been looking for those answers i would have written the question with more depth. Its meant to be a simple question but still i enjoyed the debate.

[Lunary]

I would take it but only if I could recreate a world I was told of, or live in it. A world of alot of living being, all having any shape they want to have, all of them living normal lives with some "special" powers but nothing to cause chaos (Like turning completely into water so you can enjoy bathing more), A world with many different places, a town, a huge forest, a huge lake and all, there is no industrialisation, money or anything, you drink water from the lake and you get food from the tree's and bushes and stuff, there are some wild animals but those are never the main food. A world where everyone lives in peace and mostly alone really but they can find eachother and be with eachother too. A world where everyone can be what they want and not be bound to by any laws, with nobody holding any kind of agression to anyone. A world where you could live in the nature and sleep out in the open with no fear of anything yet there are others so it's not boring and it has interaction with others and concequences and all, but nothing so drastic it would make you miserable(Cept maybe love?). I would love to live my life like that with that special someone, so we don't have to be bound by the rules of capitalism and the survival of the fittest and all that crap.

[StaySharp]

Living in a dream world sounds good to me, with infinite possibilites I would spend even a thousand years there. I'm sure I'm not getting bored, it's just about putting the "infinite" in infinite possibilties to use. However only under one condition, and that would be that I could return to reality, and use my dream experiences for a positive impact on this world. I couldn't just leave everyone behind in misery while I go dreaming for as long as I want.

[AlexHumva]

Nah, if I had the choice, I'd choice real life over a dream MMO. Because frankly, after a little while, I'd just get bored. It's awesome to be god, but eventually, at least for me, being god gets dull. I prefer the chaotic randomness of life to the all controlling-ness of a dream. With life, there's real excitement, real adventure. Dreams can come close, but if you're lucid dreaming, you know, in the back of your head, it's all not real and there isn't any danger. Some people would love a lucid dreaming MMO, I'm sure, but me? I just couldn't accept it. I'd likely part-time in it, but forever? No. Hopefully that made some sense.