Thread: Is it ethical to hurt your DCs?

I agree that morality is subjective, it differs between cultures, and between individuals. Going into dream morality makes things even more complex to deal with, and I feel it is impossible to tell someone else what is moral or not for them to do, at least in the dream.

I always feel that if I want to do something and am okay with it, I can do it, and if I am not sure about something or it makes me uneasy, no one can force me to do it. It is so simple yet so many people ask others to affirm their moral standpoint or give them one to adopt. When someone creates one of these threads, which I am sure we all see often, people will all give different opinions, from do or don't do this, to do whatever you want. With all of these differences, the OP will have to choose who to listen to, and I am willing to bet that more often than not they pick the one they would have chosen for themselves anyway.

It gives me the impression that a lot of people do not have a very strong sense of what their own morality is, and they should work on that IMO. You do not need some person on the internet to tell you what is right for you, you need to decide what is right for you.

Aside from that, I would say go for it, since you wouldn't be asking if it was okay to do something if you didn't want to do it. Just make sure that your okay with it.

I certainly agree that we as humans are not perfect beings; the older I get the more I realize that morality is a very complex thing.

Sorry about not being helpful but.... what the f***?

It's strange even though I'm in a dream I still have the same amount of decency as I'm awake. I'd think after being able to LD I would have convinced myself dream worlds have no real link to the real world, but somehow morality goes over and I hesitate to pull triggers often lol. There's a lot of stuff I want to try out like Agent Smith's stab in the chest and make a clone trick, but I don't think I'd be able to get to use it

luckily in most situations the hostile/passive line is never uncertain in most of my dreams, its usually just monsters + mobsters and friendlies, no drama. Passive LD'ing isn't as fun as hostile LD'ing

Personally I don't think it's a huge deal if someone goes around hurting DCs, though this sort of disinhibition is a little unsettling.

I view DCs as extensions of my own psyche, and therefore tend to treat them with a degree of respect. But I have no problem pulling out a few weapons when a dragon rears its ugly head.

To each his own, as they say.

Originally Posted by DreiHundert

That's like asking if it's ethical to kill people in Video Games.

When I play Grand Theft Auto, I make a point of beating the shit out of women, and shooting any man who tries to be a hero. I play The Sims and create families just to confine them and starve them or burn them to death... Or in SimCity when you wreck havoc in the city, etc, etc...

In my only Lucid Dream where I actually did anything, I made a point of injuring a Dream Character. In video games and in our dreams, we are in "God Mode". We have absolute power over what happens...

Allow me to Quote William Pitt: "Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it".

If I had such power over the real world, and real people were as insignificant to me as video game/dream characters - would I go about doing it? I don't know. Maybe I would leave the innocent alone and only kill/injure those who I don't like or deem unworthy... But that urge would still be there.

Some people would consider that it is immoral to gain pleasure from harming others, be they real or not -- but as long as civilizations exist, their laws and police will prevent us from doing these things.

I personally believe that "Morals" are less than real... Just something we've come up with to keep ourselves safe.

This post is going to contradict my first one somewhat but somehow in my head it all works out.
I feel a distinct difference between harming video game characters and DCs. Video game characters have been designed by people purely for entertainment are, more often than not, not based too strongly on any distinct people or groups of people.
DCs on the other hand have been created by your mind to simulate individual humans or very distinct groups of people.

When I harm a DC it's more like I'm harming that actual individual or group and when I harm a video game character it's more like shooting an arrow at a wooden target. It's clearly and obviously fake and you have no emotional attachment to it as a living being (in most cases, some characters are very emotionally convincing and I will admit and I have more trouble with these.)

It's like the difference between harming a bee and a bee hive.
When I get rid of the hive I'm getting rid of something that I have no real attachment to because I can't see the emotional value of it as a living thing. It's simply a hive of flying stingers.
When I kill a bee I'm hurting a living individual and I begin to see the emotional value in it.

Heck, you better not play any FPS games or any games that involve killing.

You must really hate GTA

Honestly though, how is lucid dreaming any different to playing a video game when it comes to violence?

Originally Posted by imKirkC

Honestly though, how is lucid dreaming any different to playing a video game when it comes to violence?

Maybe you should read the post right above you.

If you know it is a dream, you also know it is not real. It is a story. Sometimes you do something unethical to further the plot of your dream story. I think of it like writing a novel. The author will write a murder scene, not because he is a sociopath, but because the rest of the novel is about solving that murder. You would not have a story without the conflict. Conflict makes dreams more interesting, the same way it makes stories more interesting. Intentionally causing conflict is normally unethical, but in the context of a dream or story, it is not.

Originally Posted by imKirkC

Honestly though, how is lucid dreaming any different to playing a video game when it comes to violence?

Well lets think about that. In Grand Theft Auto games you may beat and attack helpless women. It can be thought of basically like rape, but the details are not very real. In the games you push a button and the little charector beats the woman. Strange thing to find funny, but it is not very real. Compare that to this "You see the fear in her eyes, you hear her beg, you reach out and grab her forcefull and she scratches your face, Now you feel rage, you hit her and feel the impact and see her eye split open, you grab the top of her bloose and tear it away, she is crying now, you hit her again,,,,"
Now you tell me how LD violence is differant from video games.

Originally Posted by imKirkC

Honestly though, how is lucid dreaming any different to playing a video game when it comes to violence?

I'd say it's similar in some aspect. At least for me.

I don't kill innocent people in games, that's not fun at all and makes me feel bad, even if it's just a video game character.
When it's an armed enemy, then sure, i kill him, since he would kill me otherwise and that's the point of that specific game.

Now when talking about LDs, i'd say it's the same. If a DC attacks you, why wouldn't you take care of it? Even kill it if you wish so (but you can easily take care of him without killing him).
But if you kill an innocent DC just for fun, well... that's not so normal and you should feel bad... Especially since LDs are 1000x times more realistic than video games.

Originally Posted by sivason

Well lets think about that. In Grand Theft Auto games you may beat and attack helpless women. It can be thought of basically like rape, but the details are not very real. In the games you push a button and the little charector beats the woman. Strange thing to find funny, but it is not very real. Compare that to this "You see the fear in her eyes, you hear her beg, you reach out and grab her forcefull and she scratches your face, Now you feel rage, you hit her and feel the impact and see her eye split open, you grab the top of her bloose and tear it away, see is crying now, you hit her again,,,,"
Now you tell me how LD violence is differant from video games.

Just try that with one of my DC's bub, She will turn into a bear and eat you

Originally Posted by woblybil

Just try that with one of my DC's bub, She will turn into a bear and eat you

Hmmm, your point? If anything that may mean your inner self would rather get itself eaten than allow that kind of smut in your dream. So that is a good sign for your mental health.

Nahh, I wouldnt want to get eaten, I just like people and almost everything else too, I really cant think of a person I dont like. If I can I try to interact with most DC"s including animals and monsters and whatever, Once in awhile one gets out of hand, Maybe 3 times in as many months I have had to "Dismiss" a DC and that's just about what I do with them, I fail to recognize their existence if they will let me. Only after that do I get forceful ~

Every time i kill someone or even attempt to the dream police come after me and fuck me up into consciousness. Sucks to have morals.

[QUOTE=Ellusiion;1905327]Every time i kill someone or even attempt to the dream police come after me and fuck me up into consciousness. Sucks to have morals.[/QUOTE]

No, Ellusiion, it doesn't.

I don't think ethics depend on how real something feels. I think they depend on how real it is. No matter how real it seems, as long as you know it is fake, it is not unethical. This is the definition of lucid dreaming. You know it is fake. I don't think we should ever try to censor our dreams. We should learn from them, but never feel ashamed of them.

Just like a story with a moral, our dreams can help us understand complex situations. Maybe experiencing that rape scene will help you empathize with rape victims, or better understand how horrible rapists are, or avoid such a situation in real life.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

I don't think ethics depend on how real something feels. I think they depend on how real it is. No matter how real it seems, as long as you know it is fake, it is not unethical. This is the definition of lucid dreaming. You know it is fake. I don't think we should ever try to censor our dreams. We should learn from them, but never feel ashamed of them.

Just like a story with a moral, our dreams can help us understand complex situations. Maybe experiencing that rape scene will help you empathize with rape victims, or better understand how horrible rapists are, or avoid such a situation in real life.

Or maybe experiencing that rape scene, with you as the rapist, over and over again, will lead you to believe that, in waking life, rape is okay ... this path goes in both directions, I think.

Since a dream is your entire creation, and, briefly, your reality (lucid or not), wouldn't it be a good thing to be true to your self when forming it and acting in it?

Also, you may underestimate the "fakeness" of LD's, Robot_Butler: yes, we may "know" intellectually that nothing in this dream is real, in a physical sense, but all the while every sense in our system is screaming "real!" at us, in very real emotional and perceptual senses. Since emotion and perception almost always trump reason, I think there is more reality in a dream than you are implying. Given that, and given that that dream reality is of your own creation, does it really make sense to deem evil deeds to be okay?

Did u know even in videogames, part of your brain acts like it's real? Imagine how lucid dreams are for your brain, if u do the most horrifying things do another dc. Again, u can do things once in a while, but there is a line that u shouldn't cross to mutch or it may become unhealthy for your mental state.


we have found that a sample of randomly assigned young adults showed less activation in certain frontal brain regions following a week of playing violent video games at home.' 'These brain regions are important for controlling emotion and aggressive behavior.'

I have no desire to do harm to others in waking life and it seems to carry through to my dream life. In my limited lucid experience I've never sought that out. I could, on the other hand imagine someone liking action movies. You may want to be the action hero in your own movie. In such a scenario one would do violent things to people or beings that are fictionlized as being your enemies. They have no families who miss them, their life may only be a thin storyline.

I think killing DCs is right or wrong depending on the personal intent of the dreamer. Are they maliciously indulging themselves real in killing people or are they acting out a desire to be an action hero?

Originally Posted by amazing

I have no desire to do harm to others in waking life and it seems to carry through to my dream life. In my limited lucid experience I've never sought that out. I could, on the other hand imagine someone liking action movies. You may want to be the action hero in your own movie. In such a scenario one would do violent things to people or beings that are fictionlized as being your enemies. They have no families who miss them, their life may only be a thin storyline.

I think killing DCs is right or wrong depending on the personal intent of the dreamer. Are they maliciously indulging themselves real in killing people or are they acting out a desire to be an action hero?

That logic works for me. Dreams of being a Hero are good for a feeling of empowerment and self worth. They do not have to be graphic or invoke negative emotions. I assume the only true question in this thread is "do these dreams harm the dreamer."
I think it will be clear to the dreamer if the goal was to play a defender or to take part in things that are forbidden and deemed evil in waking life.
The threat is what are you doing to yourself, and I think you must look at WHY you chose to dream what you dream.

Morality is a social construct. If you choose to adhere to such constructs in your personal fantasies so be it. I know I sound like a teenager trying to sound edgy but that's just how I view things.

That being said, I've only killed one DC in a lucid. I've also scared a group of DCs and got in a fist fight but I wasn't the one who started the fight.

Originally Posted by WatcherWorks

Morality is a social construct. If you choose to adhere to such constructs in your personal fantasies so be it. I know I sound like a teenager trying to sound edgy but that's just how I view things.

That being said, I've only killed one DC in a lucid. I've also scared a group of DCs and got in a fist fight but I wasn't the one who started the fight.

Yes, morality is a social construct, but keep in mind it was built for a reason, and that construction has foundations buried deep in the bedrock of the human condition (regardless, amazingly, of geography or ethnicity). Morality is not a thing some guy made up a few years ago -- it is, at its core, a part of us; right down to our DNA, I think.

So don't knock morality, and remember that your messing with your own core, not someone else's rules, when you do very bad things in a dream, for no reason other than to do them.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Yes, morality is a social construct, but keep in mind it was built for a reason, and that construction has foundations buried deep in the bedrock of the human condition (regardless, amazingly, of geography or ethnicity). Morality is not a thing some guy made up a few years ago -- it is, at its core, a part of us; right down to our DNA, I think.

So don't knock morality, and remember that your messing with your own core, not someone else's rules, when you do very bad things in a dream, for no reason other than to do them.

Thank you for politely telling me I'm wrong.