Thread: What makes a LD vividly realistic?

:bravo:

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

Yeah, I quite enjoyed it at the time. It became quite rhythmic, and bigger than my physical voice. It was effective beyond all expectation, too.

Ooh - this sounds very good - I hope, I remember trying it out!

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Or as a scientist you might want to inKant it…

Naah - can't see a need for Mr. Kant here.
I rather thought about "Anathem" by Neill Stevenson - there are two half-mystical schools of "avout" - a sort of monks - the Incanters and the Rhetors.
The former do a lot of "magical" real-life-control by chanting..
My favourite book - highly recommended* - I linked the title through to Wikipedia!

What the article fails to mention, is how humorous this book is - and how suspenseful of an adventure and how human and loveable and deep the characters are portrayed - this is a phantastic novel in several senses of this neologism.

^ I've looked at that book before and thought about reading it. Maybe I'll add it to the bedside stack.

And Ctharlhie, if that's anything like what I've experienced a few times falling asleep with music on, where it suddenly becomes amazing and fills your entire world and becomes a powerful rhythm moving through and all around you, then yeah - sounds pretty cool. I've also experienced it without music playing, usually if I'm fixated on a song that I can't get out of my head.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

And Ctharlhie, if that's anything like what I've experienced a few times falling asleep with music on, where it suddenly becomes amazing and fills your entire world and becomes a powerful rhythm moving through and all around you, then yeah - sounds pretty cool. I've also experienced it without music playing, usually if I'm fixated on a song that I can't get out of my head.

Yeah that's exactly it! Happens sometimes during hypnagogia when I'm merely imagining music. Amazing experience.

Our diet helps vividness too. Biochemistry, like you said. Mantras must help. Yaaaaay!

As for the less entity thing:
Sivason uses a very effective stabilization tech which is tofocus on one entity only while letting the other entities fade away. I think that means more entities equal less stabilization, I THINK.

As I recall what Sivason wrote, the emphasis was on "reducing the processing load on the brain" and "allowing the brain dream processor to reboot". So the emphasis is on creating a simpler scene. Is that really what's happening? Maybe....if the dreamer believes it entirely, then it seems to work! Maybe that's what's most important?

Well recently to stabilize my dream, I just kept feeling a fence that was near me and putting rust and stuff onto it until it looked as real as a real fence, then that made the whole world look and feel just as real.

I was outside as well, so there was quite alot of objects to 'render' into real life imagery.

Originally Posted by PKJacker

Well recently to stabilize my dream, I just kept feeling a fence that was near me and putting rust and stuff onto it until it looked as real as a real fence, then that made the whole world look and feel just as real.


I was outside as well, so there was quite alot of objects to 'render' into real life imagery.

This is extremely interesting! I'd like to hear more experiences like this. Did influencing a part of the dream to be more life like influence the whole dream to be? Do you think it was pure expectation effect, or a way the subconscious was 'inspired' by your act to increase the reality of all it's landscape as so?

P.S: I hope I'm not bumping this thread, because I don't think I need to make a new thread about the same subject, especially that I want to continue with this perticualr conversation

What I found last night, was that it was good to first concentrate just on a small patch of ground, and take a look around slowly, not whip my head about, when just before having gotten lucid.
I guess some of my optical problems at the onset of LDs had something to do with that. Not sure, though.
But it kind of resonates with some of the advice in here - "re-booting", starting with something small, confined and getting it stable before trying to take everything in at once.

Originally Posted by StephL

What I found last night, was that it was good to first concentrate just on a small patch of ground, and take a look around slowly, not whip my head about, when just before having gotten lucid.
I guess some of my optical problems at the onset of LDs had something to do with that. Not sure, though.
But it kind of resonates with some of the advice in here - "re-booting", starting with something small, confined and getting it stable before trying to take everything in at once.

Interesting!
I don't seem to be affected by this so much, since I can move around inside the dream without losing lucidity, but always end up losing it because I reach a moment of fear of the LD ending.
I should try this next time I'm lucid, to Fuchs on one part of the dream and make it more vivid, so then hopefully the whole dream will become vivid.
Lol but I'm still struggling each time just to teleport, never succeeded much.
Well I'll ghet the REM Dreamer soon, so I'll have lots of chances to practice control and increasing dream awareness and vividness! I'll couple this stabilization tech with rubbing my hands(should I?), and add it to my reflection-intention.
Also might order calea Z too, which will be awesome for generating realistic vivid aware dreams and LDs, and it's not expensive!!!(of course a 100$ a month wouldn't be expensive for us LDers in return for vivid aware LDs ) It costs like 9$ and lasts for a good while

Something I read recently on another thread that resonated strongly with me is the idea of carrying something around with you at all times in your hand, like a favorite drink in a bottle, and taking a drink from it every few minutes. Provides multiple senses engagement with the dream environment. I'll try that the next time I can remember it .

Originally Posted by FryingMan

Something I read recently on another thread that resonated strongly with me is the idea of carrying something around with you at all times in your hand, like a favorite drink in a bottle, and taking a drink from it every few minutes. Provides multiple senses engagement with the dream environment. I'll try that the next time I can remember it .

Ooh cool!!
Not only is it effective, but also very cool! I can't wait to tell my DCs that it's some magical juice that keeps me more in this alternate body lol(I tell my DCs that I'm a teleporter, because I like having the LD world run even though I'm not always in it)

Originally Posted by FryingMan

Something I read recently on another thread that resonated strongly with me is the idea of carrying something around with you at all times in your hand, like a favorite drink in a bottle, and taking a drink from it every few minutes. Provides multiple senses engagement with the dream environment. I'll try that the next time I can remember it .

Yeah,

I wrote something a couple of years ago about walking round with a Banana I'd picked up and took bites of it throughout the Lucid, that seemed to work well the times I tried it.

Did influencing a part of the dream to be more life like influence the whole dream to be? Do you think it was pure expectation effect, or a way the subconscious was 'inspired' by your act to increase the reality of all it's landscape as so?

My reasoning behind this is that it sets a framework for the rest of the dream, before everything was unclear and unrealistic, so I did what I wanted it to be and the rest followed the clarity.

Originally Posted by PKJacker

My reasoning behind this is that it sets a framework for the rest of the dream, before everything was unclear and unrealistic, so I did what I wanted it to be and the rest followed the clarity.

Fascinating! I'm gonna try it next time. Thnx for answering

Usually when I get lucid it's all very blurry, but sometimes I feel the urge to open my eyes (which feels really difficult), I can see but my eyes feel closed so I try opening them with all my might and then they pop open and I can see stuff 2x sharper than IRL.

Originally Posted by LouaiB

Also might order calea Z too, which will be awesome for generating realistic vivid aware dreams and LDs, and it's not expensive!!!(of course a 100$ a month wouldn't be expensive for us LDers in return for vivid aware LDs ) It costs like 9$ and lasts for a good while

And when you're done with the Calea, because it tastes like Dementors in liquid form (if you're into the Harry Potter universe , otherwise: Calea tastes bitter beyond all prior imagination), then you might try ordinary oregano (oregano vulgaris). I've found that it too can increase dream time massively, like Calea does. Not sure about vividness though, but that is also not Caleas strongest point, in my opinion.

How do you prepare the oregano?

Originally Posted by LouaiB

I should try this next time I'm lucid, to Fuchs on one part of the dream and make it more vivid, so then hopefully the whole dream will become vivid.
Lol but I'm still struggling each time just to teleport, never succeeded much.

Hm. I don't quite understand your thinking - you sound like this:

"Yeah - I might try to make my dream more optically vivid by focussing my attention on something.
But I cannot even "just" teleport! - So how should I manage to focus my attention on a flower, if I can't even teleport?"

Can you see, what I am getting at here?
Focussing attention is simpler and basic - teleportation is advanced dream-control.

Originally Posted by LDman

Usually when I get lucid it's all very blurry, but sometimes I feel the urge to open my eyes (which feels really difficult), I can see but my eyes feel closed so I try opening them with all my might and then they pop open and I can see stuff 2x sharper than IRL.

Yeah - exactly!
My last LDs were quite nice concerning optics - but I have exactly this feeling often as well. It seems to take an immense effort to rip them open.
One time I forced the issue and ended up awake with eyes wide open, looking disappointedly at real life.
When I'll have that again - I plan to pretend to have a hood, or scarf or something over my head - and take that off.

Originally Posted by Voldmer

And when you're done with the Calea, because it tastes like Dementors in liquid form (if you're into the Harry Potter universe , otherwise: Calea tastes bitter beyond all prior imagination), then you might try ordinary oregano (oregano vulgaris). I've found that it too can increase dream time massively, like Calea does. Not sure about vividness though, but that is also not Caleas strongest point, in my opinion.

I would like to know more about this too, please!
How do you prepare it, how much, when to consume it - and what do you mean with prolonged dream-time?
General REM prolongation? Or maybe recall for wider patches? Or even more lucid time than usually, once there?
How many times have you done this? Do you still do - and if not - why not?
Please don't feel like under inquisition here - it's just, that I have and quite like the stuff - and I'd love to find some new magic in my kitchen!

Preparing the oregano is like any other herbal infusion; pouring water (just off the boil) over the dried, shredded herb, and letting it steep for at least 10 minutes. Actually, I let it steep for an hour or so. I drink it immediately before bedtime.

So far, I have used 1 tsp. of the dried, shredded herb with very good effect, and 1/2 tsp. also with some effect. In all, I have probably tried this about 5 times. The statistics are therefore still quite uncertain. [Edit: actually 8 times, but the statistics are still quite uncertain].

In my view, tolerance develops quickly, and more than two days in a row is likely not going to be a success. [Edit: the beneficial effect seems gone already on the second night].

With "increased dream time" I mean that both Calea and Oregano, in my experience, increase REM time at the cost of deep sleep time. This has a weird distorting effect on time perception. Many times I have woken up after a dream, feeling like many hours must have passed since I went to bed, because so much has been happening in the dreams, only to realise, that I've slept for less than 45 minutes! Normally, there is little time spent in REM during the early part of the night, but that changes drastically with Calea - and oregano too, I think - which tricks the mind into believing, that the awakening happened much later in the night, than was actually the case.

I suggest trying oregano a few times, but not on consecutive nights.

Fantastic Voldmer - this is everything and exactly what I was asking you - and the more different substances one brings into play - the longer one can make the cycles, rotating supps to avoid repetition with tolerance. I still did not get at the topic properly - reading up and acting - but oregano is easily available just like peppermint, if that really does something - not sure there. I can even grow them myself next to my basil!

thank-you.gif

Originally Posted by StephL

Fantastic Voldmer - this is everything and exactly what I was asking you - and the more different substances one brings into play - the longer one can make the cycles, rotating supps to avoid repetition with tolerance. I still did not get at the topic properly - reading up and acting - but oregano is easily available just like peppermint, if that really does something - not sure there. I can even grow them myself next to my basil!

thank-you.gif

I can testify the effect of menthol (mint) on dreams.

@Voldmer: That sounds very handy! Especially that celea is only available by shipping. But yeah I've heard it tastes really bitter, so I'll buy them in capsule forms, but I can take the bitterness, I mean I would drink anything, ANYTHING, for the sake of better LDs!

@StephL: I was just talking dream control wise, didn't mean to sound like I'm associating the 2 sentences. Actually I'm working on a little trick for full dream control, the 3 phrases technique:

First phrase: Function( I say what function I want to activate( Eg : teleport function Eg2: Summon function))

Second phrase: Subject( I say the subject that the function will work on (eg: My bedroom Eg2: Chocolate cake))

Third phrase: Specificity (I place a condition that would allow only one possible outcome (eg: closet eg2: my hand))

Eg and eg2 from each phrase are one dream control action (first one to teleport to my bedroom, to be specific my closet, and second to summon a chocolate cake, on my hand)

This can work with anything at all!

It's even cooler for dream vividness: Vividness function, whole dream. There is no 3rd phrase, Instead a 'knob' should pop up, like a volume control in androids (that glows if you want!), that you raise to raise the dream vividness (and senses and awareness) gradually.

Pretty cool no? I like it because it's simple, fast, wide ranged, and effective(I guess it is) since it feels like a controlling function that is supposed to do what we choose it to do (expectation).

Originally Posted by LouaiB

Is it a long WBTB? Stabilization? Self awareness? All?
A lot say it is increased awareness.
Can we train to have our LDs very vivid? Is there a technique? I have these dreams occassionaly, and a boost of awareness sometimes does it, like a long WBTB.
Any thoughts?

I think it's just memory. When I'm dreaming, they are just as vividly realistic as when I'm awake. But as I forget the dream in the morning, it becomes less and less vivid. The same applies to my waking life. As I forget things that happened, those experiences seem more hazy and unclear. The main difference is that most of the time I am in waking life, and it's pretty easy to remember things from 1 second ago, making it seem very vivid. When I'm in a lucid dream, it is always just as vivid as waking life.

Another potential for vivid dreams might be in terms of more unusual details and settings that we don't normally see in waking life? In that case, creativity seems to play a big part.