Thread: Memory: the Forgotten Fundamental

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ Yes. The act of remembering your sleeping body, of adding something that you know to be true to the fictitious timeline your dreaming mind has created, is enough to reassociate your self-aware dreaming self with its memory. It isn't that you are creating a memory of your sleeping body, but that you are thinking about something obviously real from your recent past -- and present -- that defies the memory implanted by the dream. This defiance, this need to clarify the juxtaposition of the false or missing dream memory with an actual event, can be enough to re-engage your link to your memory... and this engagement further empowers your self-awareness because now you can remember where you really were a few minutes ago, where you really are right now, and that this dream body really isn't you.

I think I'm learning something new today. But I reread this thread a few times and am still not 100% sure I'm clear on what is said, so just to be sure: In a LD, if I remember to try to remember, say, where my sleeping body is, I still get the benefit, even if I don't actually manage to recall for sure where it is, or I come to the wrong conclusion/have a false memory?

But if doing this reengages the link to my memory, shouldn't I be able to recall this (in the cases where I don't)? Or is this “link” you speak of not the same thing as actually being able to flawlessly recall things, consciously, from WL during the dream?

Originally Posted by Travis E.

I think I'm learning something new today. But I reread this thread a few times and am still not 100% sure I'm clear on what is said, so just to be sure: In a LD, if I remember to try to remember, say, where my sleeping body is, I still get the benefit, even if I don't actually manage to recall for sure where it is, or I come to the wrong conclusion/have a false memory?

But if doing this reengages the link to my memory, shouldn't I be able to recall this (in the cases where I don't)? Or is this “link” you speak of not the same thing as actually being able to flawlessly recall things, consciously, from WL during the dream?

I will take a stab at simplifying this concept, although I may not say it exactly like Sageous would:


If you become lucid, in that you know it is a dream, there is still a large portion of your mind that feels you are actually experiencing this stuff.

In truth, this is 100% a virtual reality. Failing to honestly grasp the fact that it is 100% illusion seriously limits your control and ability to think rationally.

A method of making yourself truly grasp that nothing about the dream comes from any source other than your own mind, is to grasp the reality that you are in fact sleeping.

Simply saying "this is a dream" is not really enough. The act of remembering details about real life, such as the day or that you are asleep on the couch, removes most all belief that any part of this is real.

To do something as advanced as remembering the location of your body, you will need to scan your waking memory.

This act stimulates your rational mind, and enhances the ability to fully realize you are in a virtual reality, and therefore subject to no laws of physics.



That is how I would summarize it. Sageous may have a point or two to add, but that is the general method.






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Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Just a thought, but has anyone ever tried to meditate in a LD?

Sure, you can meditate if that is what you want to do. It is a very good way to pass the time in states like delta. I would hold off on it unless the dream is very stable, as you could drift into non-lucidity.




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Originally Posted by Verre

A while ago I was trying some memory experiments along these lines. I had a hypothesis that it might be easier to remember past dreams while dreaming, but to my surprise that didn't work well at all. Memories of waking life were more reliable, but sometimes amusingly out-of-date like Sivason described earlier. I also noticed a remarkable degree of reluctance on the part of my dreaming mind to perform this task, like it didn't want to have to remember.

However, the real stumbling block came whenever I tried to think about my sleeping body... and woke up. This happens every time. The minute I let my thoughts stray to the fact that my physical body is actually lying in bed, the dream dissolves and there I am lying in bed, even if I had no desire or intention to wake up. At this point when I'm dreaming I'm careful not to think about my sleeping body, because I've never found a way to do it without ending the dream.

Any suggestions?

1) I have often had memories of other dreams only while in a lucid dream. I do not know why, but it is something I have noticed.

2) Try not to feel where your body is, it is possible, but risky. Instead keep it an intellectual scanning thing. It will work well enough to just ask if you are sleeping in your normal place (bed) or are you sleeping on your desk at school.

^^ Well said, Sivason.

Also:

Originally Posted by Travis E.

I think I'm learning something new today. But I reread this thread a few times and am still not 100% sure I'm clear on what is said, so just to be sure: In a LD, if I remember to try to remember, say, where my sleeping body is, I still get the benefit, even if I don't actually manage to recall for sure where it is, or I come to the wrong conclusion/have a false memory?

I think you really must actually remember your sleeping body (or similar) for this to work. It is the recognition that the dream body you are currently occupying is not your true body that is important here. If you are unable to do so, then you might not be able to access your memory (or fully sustain lucidity, for that matter).

But if doing this reengages the link to my memory, shouldn't I be able to recall this (in the cases where I don't)? Or is this “link” you speak of not the same thing as actually being able to flawlessly recall things, consciously, from WL during the dream?

Yes, if the link is reengaged, remembering your sleeping body (and most other things) should not be a problem. I don't know about flawlessly, but once you can tap into your memory with your waking-life self-awareness intact, remembering things should be the same as they are as in waking-life.

I think TheUncanny summarized this bit about remembering your sleeping body well with this:

Originally Posted by TheUncanny

By remembering something that is real, but contradictory to the dream, you create cognitive dissonance. The mind naturally wants to resolve this dissonance, but can only do so by attaining a certain level of situational awareness. Or in short, you give the mind no choice but to question the nature of the environment it's in by drawing attention to said paradoxes (ex. being in one place yet remembering that you're actually in bed)