Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
^^ In other words, you're really not buying any of this, are you, Sivason?

That's okay, given that you're as well-versed in the art of LD'ing as anyone, but maybe you might consider this:

Can you really fully grasp with 100% assurity that your dream isn't real without tapping your memory for verification, without access to it at all? 3Cat's example above has some presence of memory in it, doesn't it? Unless of course he non-lucidly dreamed his recollection of the DV conversation, which is possible (and also could lead to a false memory, I suppose). And, even if you fully grasped that your dream is not real, wouldn't you still need memory to, say, rise above provided false episodic memories and, more importantly, truly have your entire Self present in the dream?

Perhaps, Sivason, in your own LD's you are accessing memory regularly, but just haven't given it's presence much consideration... you might be taking your memory skills for granted, then, given that they might be a bit too close to notice!

In this case you completely misunderstand me. I do agree with all of this and think it is fundamental to true control and having full waking awareness.

The point I was making (and have stated a couple times in this thread) is that the act of accessing waking memory can be just as effective regardless of oddities, such as false conclusions as to the location of the body or the year (phase of life). Here is the thing, if you think you are in 2002 or 1989 but you have truly grasped that you are asleep and in a dream, while gaining some what full insight into who you are and what makes you an individual, you still gain the benefit of this practice. True, you for some reason were denied access to many parts of your later life (for some odd reason) but still gain the full awareness of the fact that you are experiencing a virtual world that has nothing to do with anything physical. You know anything the dream creates is a product of thought. The only thing you lack is some episodic memories, and you do not really need many of those to function well.

Maybe, there is something in your message that does not fit this? If so please try to explain, but I certainly was not disagreeing with the principle I have believed you were discussing.