Thread: Age and Lucidity

Terrific work! That sounded like a very special experience and I look forward to seeing more of these from you.

Originally Posted by lenscaper

In fact, I felt as if I had left some of...me...in the dream. Has anybody ever experienced that?

Tonight I shall try to make the conduit flow both ways as that is my ultimate goal.

I don't think I have experienced leaving a part of me in a dream. I have had many lucid dreams that I still long to be back inside of, definitely. I have also had lucid dreams where I felt more like I was there than I usually felt I was here in the waking world. I was able to bring the fascination with experiences in lucid dreams to experiences that were previously mundane in waking, as if bringing that piece of me back, a piece that was awakened within me, within lucid dreams. Actually, I'd say pieces, plural. The example above has not been a constant experience...not yet at least. I do see it as a conduit that flows both ways though.

Keep it up!

Amazing lenscaper! Your progress is so exciting.

Originally Posted by lenscaper

Back in bed I set that goal hard as I fell back to sleep.

I'm curious to know what exactly your process is for setting a goal hard. In my WBTBs I run through a mantra in my head, it's sort of changing every night but the intention is the same, "When I'm dreaming I'll ask myself Am I Dreaming and then do a reality check" - and I visualise myself doing this in a recent dream.

Most of the time I start falling asleep and my mind drifts and I don't LD. Or I focus too hard and it keeps me awake.

Originally Posted by oolally

I'm curious to know what exactly your process is for setting a goal hard.

For me to set a goal hard like that takes more than just a mantra. I kind of give myself "a good talking to". In this case it went something like...."You're awake and aware right now, right? So take that with you now as you step across the threshold. Awake and aware...awake and aware. Don't you let go of that! Awake and aware...awake and aware. See the dream...be the dream." Something along those lines is how that "conversation" went...although it was more of a forceful lecture than a conversation.

The trick is to forcefully set that intention...and then stop and breathe at the right time. I have been combining that forceful intention setting thing with a follow up SSILD protocol...you know, the sensory awareness meditation thing. That really gets me ready for sleep quickly.

I heard that mentioned as Multiple Induction techniques (MIT) in one of the excellent podcasts.

I found this amazing video of a guy free diving. I have been watching this and visualizing flying........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=OnvQggy3Ezw

If I want to dream about flying I sometimes look at parkour videos:



Or wingsuit flying:


(Click the YouTube logo down in the corner and then watch fullscreen)

Watch a bunch of this before bed and you most likely will fly.

Originally Posted by lenscaper

For me to set a goal hard like that takes more than just a mantra. I kind of give myself "a good talking to". In this case it went something like...."You're awake and aware right now, right? So take that with you now as you step across the threshold. Awake and aware...awake and aware. Don't you let go of that! Awake and aware...awake and aware. See the dream...be the dream." Something along those lines is how that "conversation" went...although it was more of a forceful lecture than a conversation.

The trick is to forcefully set that intention...and then stop and breathe at the right time. I have been combining that forceful intention setting thing with a follow up SSILD protocol...you know, the sensory awareness meditation thing. That really gets me ready for sleep quickly.

I heard that mentioned as Multiple Induction techniques (MIT) in one of the excellent podcasts.

Interesting! I like the variation from just repeating a mantra. I kind of suspect that I don't really listen to myself when I'm repeating my mantras so this sounds like a much stronger approach.

Can I ask which episode you heard the technique from?

Hey oolally......

well, the episode that spoke briefly about MITs was this one, I think...

https://www.dreamviews.com/dreamview...ild-deild.html

But I have to admit that my method of forcefully setting intention like that is not something that I have read anywhere. I seem to be doing a lot of things like that on my own. I can only hope that I am not setting up bad habits like that but it seems to be working for me.

I have always tended to go my own way with disciplines that I wanted to master as quickly as possible and throughout my life that tendency has given me some very unique perspectives on a few very important disciplines that have stayed with me over the years.

Yeah, it's important not to fall into mechanical repetition of a mantra. I make sure if I do use one to change it from time to time, and I make sure to put some emotion into it when I say it - I also include a period of questioning if I'm dreaming now or awake, and I really consider that it could be either one. It's also vital to find ways to refresh your enthusiasm now and then or it gets stale. But that's pretty basic stuff really, I'm sure your'e both well aware of those ideas. Lenscaper, I like the idea of the hard set.

My mantra for today (the waking dream part) is....

...unbroken continuity of consciousness between sleep and awake....

That may be the title of my next album.

Seriously, though, my last two days have been a bit less lucid due to my workload......so, of course, my nights have followed suit. I still woke up smiling this morning after a brief moment of lucidity in my last dream.

I understand and accept that there will be an ebb and a flow in this unbroken continuity. I suspect that may be a crucial frame of mind for one who intends to dream on forever,

Anybody have any thoughts on that?

Originally Posted by lenscaper

Lucid Days, Lucid Nights

That may be the title of my next album.

I've heard that one... isn't it by the Eagles? No wait, I'm thinking of Wasted Days and Wasted Nights. Yeah, that's what it was. I guess that one refers to us in the younger days (me anyway, I won't speak for you). Wasted in both senses of the word. Though really that's not entirely true - even those days served a purpose - they were fun for sure, and it's important not to judge yourself too harshly. And as Jung kept saying, the first half of life has very different goals and purpose than the second half.

As for thoughts on the more serious stuff, yeah I agree. It's important to keep in mind we're living organic beings. Or if you prefer we're invisible beings composed of an intellect, emotions, and an elusive deeper part called a soul, living inside an organic body that follows the natural rhythms every living thing does, with requisite highs and lows. And if you imagine you can somehow overcome those organic rhythms then you're setting yourself up for failure or disappointment. They'll always be there, like the tidal movement of the sea.

Now let's grab our boogie boards and hang ten - surf's up!! Or maybe this is a time to sit with your feet dangling off the pier into the waves and just stare out at the ocean in melancholy reflection. Both serve their purpose.

(Now I keep hearing the Eagles song with your lyrics! I like it!)

_____________

WOW was I wrong!! Not the Eagles at all, it was Freddie Fender. I wasn't aware I knew any Freddy Fender songs, only vaguely knew the name. I guess with the Eagles I was thinking of Wasted Time. Weird crossed-wires in the brain mixup. Lol, and I'm still hearing the song done by the Eagles, but with your lyrics in my head!

Hi lenscaper and all. snoop you are so right. As I said in my dream journal today I started late in life and it needed a lot of effort to achieve LD. I've lost the ability at the moment but it led on to so many other things...meditation, an interest in Buddhism, the brain, DMT etc. It encouraged spiritual development. Although I envy those who have natural LD ability I also realise that without the difficult journey I had I might never have progressed to a more spiritual awareness...instead I might have just got caught up in the trip rather than the lessons to be had. Love you all

Originally Posted by LukeSid

I also realise that without the difficult journey I had I might never have progressed to a more spiritual awareness...instead I might have just got caught up in the trip rather than the lessons to be had. Love you all

This really resonates with me, LukeSid.

This early on in my journey I am only experiencing lucid moments and I have yet to master any degree of real control.......but each and every attempt, along with my daytime exercises, leads me closer to my goal of awakening more consciousness and spiritual awareness.

For me, this journey is just as rewarding as the glimpses of the destination.

Lenscaper, nice to know I'm not the oldest lucid dreamer out there. I turn 67 this month. I started 10 years ago, but have been gone from the forum for a year and a half. Why? I got into a virtual reality online game which one can do on demand, unlike LD. It sorta dried up the LDs. But I got off the game for two weeks and back to lucid dreaming. Early on I journalled all my dreams. I filled about 6 or 7 large journals...thousands of dreams...maybe 1000 lucid. Some of my very best "experiences" in life have been lucid dreams, since you can do the impossible there. I could talk for a long time about all my experiences, but I imagine my old posts are still on here so I won't repeat myself! . Well, welcome to an exciting chapter of your life.

Hey Rothgar......good to meet somebody else who a start on this somewhat late in life. Thanks for the welcome.

Btw, I actually think LukeSid has us beat by a few years.

I have decided to go all in on WILDing for a bit and I am realizing at the same time that age really is a factor in trying to master these techniques.

Why WILD? Going into my sixth week of this incredible journey and I have had a number of very lucid events using the various forms of DILD. But......they have all been brief and I have yet to achieve any real control. I am okay with that...I have learned patience in my years. I have decided to take a shot at jump starting things through WILD.

The real problem though is that my failed DILD attempts......and there have been many....leave me feeling a bit groggy in the morning. I get up at 4:00 AM every morning. I have for many years. I exercise a bit and work in the studio before getting to my office at 6:00 AM. I go to bed very early, of course, and that puts my prime LD hours from 2:00 to 4:00.

I have found that if I attempt a SSILD or a MILD and I am unable to get back to sleep or I stumble into a non-LD....I have lost those hours of sleep. My few serious WILD attempts, however, have been very rewarding even without resulting in a LD. I have found that the hypnagogic state is, in and of itself, a very rejuvenating experience. I feel like I have slept a full and restful night after an hour of deep hypnagogia. These periods have also rewarded me with brief amazing OBE-like experiences and very strong feelings of peace and spirituality. In hynagogia I feel as though I have a foot in each dream world.

What is the age factor? Well....I need to get good sleep. I don't have the ability to get by with 5 or 6 hours of sleep as I did when I was young. I believe that getting good restorative sleep is one of the most important things we can do for our bodies, especially as we start to get older. During my WILD attempts this weekend I got SO close.....but I could not stay fully awake for long enough to make the transition. It was a good show though....lots of colored fractals, faces.....sheets of white light....even another glimpse of the opaque window that blasted me fully awake this morning.

I know that I must establish a pattern that allows me to incorporate LD into my life completely without negatively affecting my health. I intend to do just that.

Anyway....just sharing.

lenscaper, you keep mentioning control. One thing that will destroy lucidity immediately is to try to control things or even interact with them before they're stabilized. That means both in a dream, and in the early period of developing lucidity. I don't know if you're trying to control anything, but I would just relax and enjoy whatever is happening for a while. Let it happen and it will grow.

I like my sleep too. Consequently I only tend to rely on DILD and dream signs. I sleep normally and hope to catch a lucid because something triggers that I am dreaming. It seems like some have gotten really good at this...I keep hoping I'll find some key (maybe ADA or something like that...) Which I can combine to increase frequency. I was doing reality checks early on, but after awhile I got more spontaneous awareness and quit the RCs. Maybe that was a mistake....

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

lenscaper, you keep mentioning control. One thing that will destroy lucidity immediately is to try to control things or even interact with them before they're stabilized. That means both in a dream, and in the early period of developing lucidity.

Thanks for that, Darkmatters. I had not considered that.

I don't know if you're trying to control anything, but I would just relax and enjoy whatever is happening for a while. Let it happen and it will grow.

Truth is, That's exactly what I am doing. I am thoroughly enjoying this process. I have definitely learned in life how to not push the river so I am letting the control come to me rather than trying to force it. I will say, though, that sometimes it doesn't hurt to get yourself into a part of the river that is flowing a little faster.

At this point I am just trying to get to a point where sudden lucidity in a DILD doesn't just wake me up.

Originally Posted by Rothgar

I like my sleep too. Consequently I only tend to rely on DILD and dream signs. I sleep normally and hope to catch a lucid because something triggers that I am dreaming. It seems like some have gotten really good at this...I keep hoping I'll find some key (maybe ADA or something like that...) Which I can combine to increase frequency.

Yes....that is kind of my goal as well. I intend to incorporate this into my life style so it has to work with everything else. I definitely want to master WILDing, though, as there are always times when I have the space to be more proactive.....such as the nap that I am about to take.

I was doing reality checks early on, but after awhile I got more spontaneous awareness and quit the RCs. Maybe that was a mistake....

Reality checks are not really working for me either. I still find that my strongest tool has been working diligently on daytime mindfulness and awareness. When I have the space to do that during the day I have my strongest spontaneous LDs. This past week found me a bit busier in my office and my training took a hit. That definitely affected my LDing.

I agree lenscaper - sleeping is probably THE most important thing we can do for our health (Why We Sleep by Matthew Walker can tell you all about this - sorry if I keep banging on about this ) and having an attitude that is about building a lucid dreaming practice around your life instead of it controlling your life makes sense to me. For this reason, I may not be progressing at a million miles a day but I am slowly and gradually building awareness and changing neural pathways that lead me to question waking life as second nature.

I'm far far from being an expert of course, but I feel like this approach probably takes much longer than the setting-the-alarm-in-the-middle-of-rem method, but will be more deeply ingrained in your thought processes and behaviour.

That said, and in contradition to myself - I am also tempted to do some more drastic sleep-interruption techniques so I can have a taste of a longer LDs (basically more than 4 seconds), as I suspect the more you experience, the more familiar your brain becomes to the phenomenon. And then it might trigger more DILDs from recognising that dream feeling more easily?

You talk about being busier correlating with fewer LDs lenscaper - I wonder how many of us got into LDs during a period in our lives in which we have less going on, and the routine and monotony of daily life leads us to seeking out more meaningful experiences? I say this because that is where I am finding myself at the moment; and lucid dreaming has given me something exciting to work on and look forward to.

Originally Posted by oolally

I wonder how many of us got into LDs during a period in our lives in which we have less going on, and the routine and monotony of daily life leads us to seeking out more meaningful experiences? I say this because that is where I am finding myself at the moment; and lucid dreaming has given me something exciting to work on and look forward to.

I definitely think you should take advantage of this time to lock in some good personalized LD systems.....you may not always have this luxury, right?

I may not be progressing at a million miles a day but I am slowly and gradually building awareness and changing neural pathways that lead me to question waking life as second nature.

Well said. Slow growth lasts.

Yesterday I decided to stop using the word "lucid" in my conversations with myself for a while. It has started to feel a bit like a catchphrase to me.

Instead I spent the day instilling the feeling of the unbroken continuity of consciousness. During the day I thought a lot about letting this somewhat mundane reality of my day just extend into the reality of my night. It was a bit of an arduous day and I was pretty exhausted by the time I left the office.

As I fell asleep at the beginning of the night I again hard set the idea of taking my awareness and my consciousness with me into my dreams. I told myself not to worry about being actively aware that I was dreaming....just be in the dreams. I told myself not to worry about anything tonight.......don't go seeking adventure. Just let the continuity...happen....and sleep.

So.....I end my morning routine every day with a 4 or 5 minute headstand....been doing that for a long time. I slept deeply last night but woke up as usual right about where my REM cycle is strongest. Instead of doing anything specific I just laid on my back remembering the dream that I awoke from and breathing until I fell back to sleep. The next thing I knew I was out in the hallway outside the bedroom completely aware and conscious. I decided to do a headstand......fumbled with it a bit (I never fumble with it any more) and then got into the perfect pike headstand position.......a foot or so off the floor.

Six weeks in now........

During my first week I had my only real full LDs. On back to back nights I entered the dream flying down onto a stream....both nights exactly the same place. The second night I was able to walk up and immerse myself in the pool.

So yesterday I decided to set the intention of going back there. I spent the entire day setting the intention to fly down on that stream and walk up to the little shore on the left where I would sit and watch the stream while grabbing a handful of sand. As I fell asleep I set the intention more and when I awoke during the night at the perfect REM spot I set it even harder. I was certain in my mind that this was going to be a major breakthrough in lucidity.

Instead I fell asleep into a fairly conscious but not lucid dream where I was wandering from one scene to the next, ignoring obvious dream signs, and feeling decidedly frustrated.

But as I slowly woke from that dream I consciously went to that stream. Instead of climbing up onto the shore as I had in the countless scenarios I had practiced, I turned the other way and immersed myself in the pool. I looked up at the surface, and took a huge breath of the water........and woke up.

I had only 15 minutes or so left until I had to get up so I rolled onto my back and put myself into deeper hypnagogia. Before I had finished my first cleansing breath I was absolutely FLOODED with imagery....faces, images....sounds......fractals...all at once. It was overwhelming and exhilarating.

I think I actually did have a major breakthrough....just not the one I was expecting.

Once again....just sharing.

At this stage of my learning it seems that every new and somewhat successful lucid experience opens me up a bit more for the next. I have found that posting these experiences here is helping a great deal as well. Perhaps there are other beginners like me who can also benefit from my stumbling lucid exploits.

Last night I was lucid for an entire dream through SSILD. I have come to understand my lucidity as something quite different from what I read in other folks' writings. I'm not flying around or changing the substance of things....instead I am inhabiting these night dreams just as I am in the waking dream. Last night it was crystal clear to me that I was in a dream and I just watched the dream unfold around me trying to take note of every detail. I looked down at my hands on the table at one point and just smiled.

Late this morning, with the house to myself, I laid back on the bed with my sleeping mask and ear plugs in place to experiment with WILDing. Through my breathing I put my body to sleep in minutes but then I found myself in an unfamiliar place. It was as if I was floating surrounded by deep black...light. That seems odd upon writing it but that is how it felt. There was no thought, no images....no dreams.....just that ocean of soothing black consciousness. A sound from outside the house got through and I awoke to an incredible feeling of........awareness and clarity. Over and hour and a half had gone by.