Competition Thread #17

[Nfri]

1f - 0,5p 2d - 2p wbtbf - 1p = 3,5p total = 243,5p I'm powerless without the supplements, thanks god that there isn't doping prohibition in the rules

[FryingMan]

00:00 Saturday 2014-03-08 competition #17 night #8, LD #24 (FA) - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views 5 dreams - 5 6 fragments - 3 got lucid - 5 WBTB success - 3 night total: 16 competition total: 16 + 66 = 82

[Ginsan]

1f - 0,5p 2d - 2p wbtbf - 1p = 3,5p total = 243,5p I'm powerless without the supplements, thanks god that there isn't doping prohibition in the rules Did you have considerable skill and expierience before using the supplements? Or can any beginner get 2 hour long lucids just by taking supplements?

[Nfri]

Did you have considerable skill and expierience before using the supplements? Or can any beginner get 2 hour long lucids just by taking supplements? That's the question! Well I've experienced 40 minutes long ld once by mild induction with precisely stabilization and anchoring. I've got written around 140 lds in DJ. BUT I believe that everyone who has atleast some experience with lucid dreaming would manage great results by following my galantamine + choline + nicotine kombo. I was thinking about conduce this experiment on my girlfriend, but she hasn't experienced any lds so far.

[Sojatofu]

Seems like I'm always successful on Friday night... Competition #17 Night 8 - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views 2 dreams = 2 points Become lucid = 5 points Successful DEILD = 2 points Interact with DC = 2 points Flying = 4points - First step of my 3-steps task, so additional 5 points = 9 points Night TOTAL = 20 points Competition TOTAL = 39 points

[Sensei]

Nfri, you ever thought that supplements might be like steroids and that is why you are powerless without them? You introduce your body to it and your body stops producing it, so when you don't use it, your body produces very little? Just some food for thought. I honestly think that supplements are probably bad for you and are a waste of time, and I would take a slow and steady approach over one awesome night only when I have taken pills (I hate taking pills unless I need to, it is normally better for your body to just do it naturally, unless of course your body actually does needs help). Nfri, feel free to keep doing it your way, because my way hasn't been proven, but also note that the person that wrote that book had like 40 LDs by the end of the year he was done writing it. That being said. I am gonna be gone till wednesday and all day wednesday I am gonna be moving, so I will be updating on Thursday. so y'all better get as many points as possible over the next few days, cause I am gonna be coming in with a wave of points at the end that you won't be happy about, but alas, I must do this. :/ see y'all in a few days.

[ParadoxOwl]

My three step tasks: 1. Flying 2. Transformation (Basic/Advanced) 3. Telekinesis 1 Full dream: 1 Points 1 Fragment: 0.5 Points TOTAL: 1.5 POINTS GRAND TOTAL: 34 POINTS DJ Entry: Help! - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views If I have made a mistake please tell me ;D.

[FryingMan]

Did you have considerable skill and expierience before using the supplements? Or can any beginner get 2 hour long lucids just by taking supplements? Well looking at Nfri's LD count he's definitely not a rank beginner, but at least a good solid intermediate. Thomas Yuschak writes that you need to keep doing daytime work in order to get lucid with the supplements, otherwise they just result in very vivid normal dreams. The thing is, if you keep working on recall more and more, your recalled dreams get longer and longer and more and more vivid. I see this in my own practice. Actually I think almost all dreams are vivid as we experience them, it's just our memory of them that gets hazy. Waking immediately from a dream gives the most vivid recollection of it. Also working a lot on brain and memory health helps a lot I think. Solid regular sleep schedule, enough sleep, good general health, and always work on recall. Then add daytime LD work, nighttime work, and the lucids will come and will keep getting better and better. Consistency and determination are the keys, always try for recall, and always think you'll LD every night.

[JoannaB]

1 fragment (0.5) + failed WBTB (1) + previous (10) = total 11.5 http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/joan...st-cups-56304/

[Nfri]

Brandon: Nfri, you ever thought that supplements might be like steroids and that is why you are powerless without them? You introduce your body to it and your body stops producing it, so when you don't use it, your body produces very little? You have really relevant thoughs and this make totaly sense, but I have to disagree with it. My ''poor'' ld (1 per week) results were the reason why I started the supplements experimentation in the first place. I honestly think that supplements are probably bad for you and are a waste of time After the 2hrs of session triggered by supplements alone I must say that this was definitely not waste of time. If I would want to achive this long lucid, I have to practice every day atleast for 1 year and that's not guaranteed. Supplements gave me the this sneak peak into high level lucid dreaming, which I wanna obtain daily. It's like to become a millionare for one day. It really motivates you to work hard because what you have went throught is worth it. and what about hypotesis that supplements are bad? Well that's why I do these experimantations. It'll show me what is bad and what is great. Then I just stick to great!!! If there is a risk (decreased natural lucid dreaming, heatlh problems, ....) I'm willing to take that chance. I would take a slow and steady approach over one awesome night Yes I do I'm really careful about dosage, timing and intervals... but also note that the person that wrote that book had like 40 LDs by the end of the year he was done writing it. I keep that in my mind and that's why I've taken the book so serious after I experienced it on my own skin Fryingman He's at least a good solid intermediate I think about myself as a intermediate and that is really sad after 5 years of practice. Thomas Yuschak writes that you need to keep doing daytime work in order to get lucid with the supplements, otherwise they just result in very vivid normal dreams. My ''daywork'' is watching for day dream signals and also imagine them when I remember. That's it.

[Scionox]

5 fragments, 1 dream, 1 WBTB Success, 1 lucid. 11.5 points. Spoiler for lucid: I wake up and feel that its dream, i go to window but then dream fades. Hm - I just thought - maybe if nobody yet has lost points to the limit, which can't be easily integrated in hindsight - maybe one could change the limit rule already now? I don't want to produce any stress with this now - it is wonderful, how it is! Just - if you go in with a WILD for example, and do a 10 points task - you have only two points left to gather from that dream. This seems a bit meagre to me, actually. And it might even discourage from WILDing.. In my 3rd competition now I never thought that the limit worked this way. The language needs a complete overhaul. I'd be happy to help since I'm pretty good at ironing out ambiguities. The problem is that there is the language, and there is how the veterans remember how ambiguities were resolved in the past, but these little clarifications are not reflected in the current language, so newbies can't figure out the real rules. Hmmm... I might add WILD and DEILD points to not be affected by limit for next competition then i guess. And yeah, i agree about wording, never been good at it in the first place. 1. Become Lucid, interact w DC - 7 2. Become Lucid, advanced flying (+5 step task), move through solid object - 24(5) 2.5 (DEILD), teleport - 9 3. Become Lucid, Summoning, DC Change, 13 3.5 DEILD, Interact with DC, TOTM - 12(8) +WBTB/5 dreams Nights total: 70 Congrats! Also sounds like 73 total with 3 points from WBTB.

[atramentis]

Remembered three fragments (1.5) and a dream (1) for a total of 2.5 points. Old total: 17 points New total: 19.5 points

[sprada]

WBTB failed - 1 Point Slept for 10 hours and not even one one fragment remembered. One image of combing my cat. that's it. Comp Total = 19 Points

[JoannaB]

Slept for 10 hours and not even one one fragment remembered. One image of combing my cat. that's it. Combing your cat = 0.5 point fragment?

[StephL]

My second lucid of the comp! But the visual quality was really low - groping about mainly. Low Quality Lucid And Fragmensts - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views That is: WBTB: 3 Lucid: 5 RC: 1 Stab: 2 Flying: 4 Eating: 4 Fragments: 2.5 67.5 + 21.5 = 89 points total I feel, I need to work on my recall more..

[StephL]

Nfri - I read this book, which you recommended at the moment (free download). It is highly interesting - I guess, I will try out Galantamine and Choline Bitartrate - need to order that, though - will be too late for doping myself for the comp.. He is also of the opinion, that Melatonin as such is not such a good idea for triggering - he uses it in specific ways - including inducing rebound. Na well - hope, I didn't lead somebody on a suboptimal track with my one-time significant success, where the above seem rather the way to go. The alcohol rebound he talks about, does not come in when you drink at bedtime, though, after what he says. He says - a glass of wine at midday is the maximum on that day, which doesn't counteract. What he rather says, as I understand it, is if you regularly drink alcohol or smoke things - it is a good rebound-trigger, if you set out with it for a day completely. But hey - who's to argue with a 2 h high-level lucid!? Just - if you don't drink anyway - doing it for lucidity is not so much recommended - rather if you are really used to it - take it away for a day or so. Did you go in by WILD, by the way? By the way - he spends a lot of time explaining how to avoid tolerance and desensitation - how long to set out with it - how to change around what you do - just from reading it - this guy really knows, what he is talking about concerning neurophysiology and -pharmacology. He explains everything in much detail - the principles behind the effects - fantastic. Thanks for that tip, Nfri!!

[FryingMan]

Fryingman I think about myself as a intermediate and that is really sad after 5 years of practice. My ''daywork'' is watching for day dream signals and also imagine them when I remember. That's it. Have those been intense 5 years of non-stop attempts, trying hard every single night to recall as much as possible and work on various techniques, or 5 years of on again off again effort? I think to get to the awesome levels that the supplements provide without them takes considerable time of basically ADA-like mindset: constantly and continuously, all day every day, evaluating your state, never assume what your state is, prove it to yourself. The idea is that eventually this checking goes in to the background but is always there. But to get there can take a long time of mental effort. So yeah, it's fun to give yourself a "LD party" once in a while with the supplements. But for me, my attempts didn't work out so well, and I had a frustrating 3-week dry spell after my biggest attempt, so I'm going to stay off of them for a while in case they were the cause of it. Your experience, however, is *definitely* the goal! Wow, amazing. Nfri - I read this book, which you recommended at the moment (free download). It is highly interesting - I guess, I will try out Galantamine and Choline Bitartrate - need to order that, though - will be too late for doping myself for the comp.. He is also of the opinion, that Melatonin as such is not such a good idea for triggering - he uses it in specific ways - including inducing rebound. Na well - hope, I didn't lead somebody on a suboptimal track with my one-time significant success, where the above seem rather the way to go. The alcohol rebound he talks about, does not come in when you drink at bedtime, though, after what he says. He says - a glass of wine at midday is the maximum on that day, which doesn't counteract. What he rather says, as I understand it, is if you regularly drink alcohol or smoke things - it is a good rebound-trigger, if you set out with it for a day completely. But hey - who's to argue with a 2 h high-level lucid!? Just - if you don't drink anyway - doing it for lucidity is not so much recommended - rather if you are really used to it - take it away for a day or so. Did you go in by WILD, by the way? By the way - he spends a lot of time explaining how to avoid tolerance and desensitation - how long to set out with it - how to change around what you do - just from reading it - this guy really knows, what he is talking about concerning neurophysiology and -pharmacology. He explains everything in much detail - the principles behind the effects - fantastic. Thanks for that tip, Nfri!! Link didn't come through -- is that the Yuschak book, or another? My second lucid of the comp! But the visual quality was really low - groping about mainly. Low Quality Lucid And Fragmensts - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views That is: WBTB: 3 Lucid: 5 RC: 1 Stab: 2 Flying: 4 Eating: 4 Fragments: 2.5 67.5 + 21.5 = 89 points total I feel, I need to work on my recall more.. I've noticed that if I start thinking abstract thoughts (like about goals) without "physical" engagement first that I can lose visuals or the entire dream. I think best is a balance. Of course I don't have enough of a track record yet to be sure, but starting with a solid dream body connection (I "pat myself down" from chest to feet and back up again, looking down at my dream body), then a solid dream environment engagement (all senses), and move on to mental stabilisation while never withdrawing from noting the environment. I've made it as far as the dream body engagement, and several times with the environment engagement, but I've not managed both yet. I also have tended to "stand still" while stabilizing, but in my Feb. TOTM I specifically kept my feet moving and slowly walking and rotating so that there is motion in the "peripheral vision." In fact, I don't think I've *ever* lost a LD when I was "on the move," it's always been when standing still and always when my attention is on something abstract like a thought of goals or when I've "closed my eyes" and am concentrating on a sensation, and not the dream environment. So the trick is to do your goal review while physically engaging, and maintaining a thread of awareness (perhaps considerable) on the dream environment and on the dream body. IMHO.

[dolphin]

4 fragments-2 points 5 dreams-5 points total-7 points become lucid-5 points reality check-1 point flying-4 points phase through big solid object-8 points total-18 points dream-I catch a FA after a dream. I do a nose plug to make sure. I go outside into the night and jump up to fly. I'm not flying very fast at all so no chance of me doing advanced flying. I land in a commercial area and look for ways to get points. I try going through a glass door but can't. Then I try going through a concrete pillar and do. Shortly after, I wake up. 7+18=25 points competition total=170 points

[DoctorKwack101]

NiGHT 8: My 2-alarm system sort of worked! I was able to get up for my WBTB because my first alarm is all the way across the room, and I remembered a full dream thanks to my other alarm that shuts itself off. Sadly, I don't remember much from my WBTB because I was absolutely exhausted, so I probably didn't try too hard to WILD. Still though, I'm glad I have a system worked out. Now it's just like FryingMan says - I just have to keep up my consistency and determination. Night total: 2pts TOTAL: 13pts

[Bharmo]

Last two nights: 1 wbtb attempt, 3 fragments. RL worries are really affecting my nightly practices 24 + 2,5 = 26,6 pts

[AnotherDreamer]

2 dreams, 1 fragment, 1 wbtb - 3.5 points Total for competition - 59 points

[Nfri]

StephL: Just - if you don't drink anyway - doing it for lucidity is not so much recommended - rather if you are really used to it - take it away for a day or so. I don't use alcohol because of lucidity, but I use it because of relaxation and letting go of my tension. Someone meditate to achieve this calmness, but meditation doesn't helps me. Did you go in by WILD, by the way? No, I don't practice classical wild. It's hard and I don't know how to do it right. Although I'm pretty good in DEILD, which is form of wild. So the 90% of my lds are DILD. Thanks for that tip, Nfri!! You're welcome Fryingman: Have those been intense 5 years of non-stop attempts, trying hard every single night to recall as much as possible and work on various techniques, or 5 years of on again off again effort? Well, to be honest first 3 years I didn't know what I'm actually doing. I just have Lucid dreaming book from Laberge in my native language. When I little improved my english reading skills, I started to read books in english about lucid dreaming and then I found this amazing live forum with people who have the same interest and you can read a lots of interesting stuff about lucid dreaming. So I have been really intense in it around 1,5 year. The idea is that eventually this checking goes in to the background but is always there. But to get there can take a long time of mental effort. I have the same opinion on the matter

[StephL]

Yupp - I think you are right, Fryingman - I should rather do it the other way round or both together - next one will be visually great - promise to myself!! I was asking about WILD, Nfri, because the book says, the combis are especially good for WILD - I am yet to do one of these..

[Chessica]

Night 8: 1 looong dream and one fragment. 1,5 points. Where's my lucid?? Arghhh ... Going to try a afternoon nap now and see what happens, maybe I'll have success at WILD. Never had a WILD, but one day it must happen! It must! I'm getting frustrated, I've only managed one single DILD in 2014! I'm writing my dream journal, I'm doing awareness and reality checks, I'm aware of my dream signs. What more can I do? Competition total: 20 points (Edit: Corrected the competition total...)

[FryingMan]

Yupp - I think you are right, Fryingman - I should rather do it the other way round or both together - next one will be visually great - promise to myself!! I was asking about WILD, Nfri, because the book says, the combis are especially good for WILD - I am yet to do one of these.. Dreaming is so personal, though, so the author says "the supplements are good for WILD" , you have to add the implicit "for me" (meaning him, the author). Some people just don't WILD. I hope I'm not one of them , but I've still yet to make the transition while completely conscious, so far I always experience a discontinuity. When I hold on to enough awareness to stay conscious I so far have never entered the dream. Maybe it's just a matter of fine-tuning the hold on awareness. But it takes time. I feel like I get a tiny tiny bit closer with each attempt. Onwards!