Thread: ZAD's Workbook

Welcome ZAD!

Good point about reality checks - recently I was similarly thinking it would be much more beneficial to ask myself a number of critical as well as memory questions, rather than going through the well learned routines of nose plugs or telekinesis.

Update: Since the original post I've had ~15 LDs, which is great for me! Also, this weekend I had my first ever successful WILD attempt, and a lot of DEILD chains! I also accomplished some of the goals I mentioned:

Short-Term Goals:
Become lucid at least once a week, every week [DONE (each week since)]
Have a two minute lucid dream before Halloween [DONE]
Long-Term Goals:
WILD successfully once in 2018 [DONE]

My techniques and routine are much the same as I mentioned above, except it's a bit more lax now that the ball's rolling. When I was first getting back into LDing, I was pretty strict about habits, but after reading an old post by sensei, I've realized that it's not the techniques that matter but simply getting yourself in the right state. The biggest thing for me is believing that I'll become lucid tonight and holding on to the feeling. I also have "awareness bursts" at least 3 times a day when I go on walks with my dog, and especially in the evening right before bed. My mantras have become shorter, I really just repeat them every night once or twice, with absolute intention. My dream signs have become more apparent, namely my fiancee and my childhood home. But dream signs and reality checks aren't what gets me lucid, in reality it's always just my heightened awareness that gets me there; I mostly LD in the morning right before or after naturally WBTBing (no alarm), so that's the biggest thing for me.

My next big dream goal is to incubate and/or teleport to a specific dream world which I'll post about one day when I finally get there.

Great progress so far! The walk before bed must be very good for boosting awareness.

My next big dream goal is to incubate and/or teleport to a specific dream world which I'll post about one day when I finally get there.

Do you already have a specific dream scene in mind? It might help to look at pictures with those dream elements either before bed or throughout the day and then try to visualize them. Good luck!

Thanks NyxCC! Yeah, the walks really help a lot. Every other weekend, my fiancee leaves for work at 5:30am both days, so I walk our dog then too to make sure he doesn't get restless and wake me up (I try to sleep & dream a lot on these weekends). Well lately I've been doing the awareness bursts on these walks too, and I think it's a big contributing factor to my getting lucid.

Originally Posted by NyxCC

Do you already have a specific dream scene in mind?

I do! Basically, it's a giant zeppelin with a city suspended below it. There's an infinite marble/tile bathhouse on top and a circus within the balloon. It's sort of a mish-mash of vivid dream experiences I've had in the past as well as some thoughts and visual elements that have come to me in meditations. I know it sounds crazy, but I hope to 3D model it soon so it makes a little more sense. I'll post it here if I ever refine it enough!

I think my previous posts cover everything up to Lesson 3, so I'll be focusing now on Lesson 4.

Stabilization & control goals for the coming weeks:
1) Sit down and meditate in a dream (#1 priority)
2) Teleport to my incubated dream location (I've been visualizing the place and making connections with my childhood home, one of my most prominent dream locations/dream signs -- hopefully the next time I'm there, I will remember to teleport!)
3) Touch my thumb and forefinger and nonverbally chant: "Sight, Sound, Touch, Ground(ed), Calm, Conf(ident), I, Can, Stay, Here, For, As, Long, As, I, Want"*
4) Remember to solve basic math equations at start of dream
5) Visualize common dream characters telling me that I'm dreaming and have it manifest in a dream
6) Utilize schemas to create items/people from raw materials (as in the hydrant example). Note: I have no problem doing the expectation method of summoning things, and often in lucids I've transformed myself (in mirrors) and other DCs, but I don't think I've ever created something from nothing like that...will be interesting to try!
n) Keep the thought in mind throughout the entire dream that if I start to lose lucidity, I will simply stabilize again, and know that I can stay in the dream for as long as I want



*Note: I actually created a mandala from this chant and have been reciting the chant in my mind while following the spiral inwards and touching thumb and forefinger. I try to visualize that when my thumb and forefinger (left hand) get close enough together, they are magnetically drawn together and there's a spark -- when this happens, my senses are flooded and my awareness grows like an silhouette or shadow expanding all around me.
Mandala:

........SS........
.......A..T.......
......F.LA.G......
......H.WI.C......
.......S..C.......
........CI........
Order (S=start, E=end):
........S>........
.......>..>.......
......^.>v.v......
......^.E<.v......
.......<..<.......
........<<........

And some really, really rough 3D models of the bathhouse dream scene I'm incubating:

Spoiler for images:

wip_bathhouse_01.jpg

wip_bathhouse_02.jpg

It leaves lots of room for imagination

I'm interested in seeing what the dream comes up with in terms of the paintings, reliefs, and statues. I know there will be some out there stuff, but I'm sure anything my subconscious cooks up will be badass. Also interested in the DCs that visit this place, I'm sure I'll meet lots of interesting figures here.

I'm interested in seeing what the dream comes up with in terms of the paintings, reliefs, and statues. I know there will be some out there stuff, but I'm sure anything my subconscious cooks up will be badass. Also interested in the DCs that visit this place, I'm sure I'll meet lots of interesting figures here.

Using 3D for dream incubation is something I hadn't quite thought of very clearly before actually; I think it's the kind of thought that came by to me and that I then dismissed because I was doing something else at the time. I have sometimes used 3D to represent some dreams' layouts, sometimes to show other people as in a couple of my DJ entries.

What (modeling program) are you using, out of curiosity?

Yeah, so far it's a cool idea and it can help me get down my ideas on paper better than sketching (I'm awful at perspective). But it's definitely only a partial solution, and I've found it can be a bit harmful if I let it.

The problem is making sure that your visualization rather than the model is always your single source of truth, because (unless you're at a professional skill level) the model will most likely be at a much lower detail level and certain things may be hard to "get right" as far as shapes, dimensions, etc. Then when you return to visualizing, since you've been staring at the model for so long, you're all of the sudden picturing this imperfect model instead of the original thing you were visualizing. And then other problems arise, like when you're trying to model a shape for the first time or experimenting with the program, it might take you a while to figure it out, so by the time you've finished a piece you may not want to (or have time to) go back and fix it to make it right rather than done. Because of these pitfalls I'm trying to use the model only for getting a solid sense of the space, so that it feels more "real", and to get a feeling of traversing it with some actual rather than imagined visual stimuli. Sort of like with memory palaces/method of loci, it always works much better if the locus is somewhere you frequently visit in real life. I never thought of using it to describe a dream's layout, usually if I have a physical DJ I'll sketch a floor plan of the room if it's relevant. Using Blender btw. What do you use?


Notes on the goals I posted yesterday after my lucid this morning:
1. Attempted, but ended up looking at the sky and got distracted
2) Attempted via door and spinning but didn't teleport
4) Remember to do this multiple times, and it helped me stay lucid for a while (felt like a couple of minutes in length, probably 1.5 to 2.5m total)
n) Succeeded! Throughout the dream I kept reminding myself each time I started to lose it, and I even tried when I finally did lose it (although it was too late). I think if I had done the problems a little earlier I would have stayed lucid; basically just have to do them every 30 seconds or so, or after anything that throws you off)

Originally Posted by ZAD

Yeah, so far it's a cool idea and it can help me get down my ideas on paper better than sketching (I'm awful at perspective). But it's definitely only a partial solution, and I've found it can be a bit harmful if I let it.

The problem is making sure that your visualization rather than the model is always your single source of truth, because (unless you're at a professional skill level) the model will most likely be at a much lower detail level and certain things may be hard to "get right" as far as shapes, dimensions, etc. Then when you return to visualizing, since you've been staring at the model for so long, you're all of the sudden picturing this imperfect model instead of the original thing you were visualizing. And then other problems arise, like when you're trying to model a shape for the first time or experimenting with the program, it might take you a while to figure it out, so by the time you've finished a piece you may not want to (or have time to) go back and fix it to make it right rather than done.

To be honest, even at a professional skill level it might not be worth the time because you can spend so much time modeling small details that would likely get lost by the mind anyway; it's just a waste of time As you probably know, a "right" model is often not necessary over a "done" model in many 3D contexts (for example when performance is more important than detail and when detail can be achieved via texture rather than topology). My suggestion would be that if you want a roughly modeled scene in a way that leaves things open for the imagination, to actually visually occlude certain elements, to create a "negative" space, that while you may know what it should like, actually looks incomplete when you look at it rendered - and then you print the render, hang it somewhere, whatever; that's what you see, not your memory of the model you made, unless you have photographic/eidetic memory, of course...

For example off the top of my head, say you have a column, make it roughly of Doric order, say - but make it so that when rendered it's only dimly lit with ambience colour that conveys a mood you want, so that only the nuances of its silhouette and details exist. Scale down the render, add grain, blur, whatever... Make it lose detail. It's always easier to lose detail than to gain it, so you can potentially use that to your advantage. Like a very sketchy sketch, the more lines and occlusion you add, the more open for detail it is by the mind, despite it probably losing definition, especially for a viewer that didn't know what the original lines underneath looked like on their own. If we assume the mind works by suggestion, then suggest that the detail is missing.

And finally, you could always do something I find quite useful for paintings sometimes; I'm not particularly good at certain free-hand perspectives, so I make basic/plain 3D scenes that I use as reference for the vanishing points and the more important reference (vertical/horizontal) lines. The advantage of this methodology for drawn perspective is that it can be any specific perspective since you can change camera angle at any time, and because of its plain nature, can be easier to draw than a complex scene from a photo that has the same perspective elements.

In any case, I hope my logic here made sense to you. I generally use blender as well.

Little edit: And I do definitely agree with your points, but I simply wanted to think around them when I commented the above.

Originally Posted by DarkestDarkness

Like a very sketchy sketch, the more lines and occlusion you add, the more open for detail it is by the mind, despite it probably losing definition, especially for a viewer that didn't know what the original lines underneath looked like on their own.

These are all great points! You're definitely onto something about adding noise, lowering resolution, getting rid of detail...rather than looking at this model as a faulty source of truth, I should instead look at it as a reasonable suggestion of truth.
Also I hadn't even thought of printing it out, I was mostly planning on moving the viewpoint around the scene to imagine walking through it. But having something concrete like that would probably help a lot more!

Occluding elements is one thing I had actually been thinking of, maybe adding long drapery or curtains between some of the columns so that fewer room squares or segments are visible, which would be less taxing on how much my brain needs to create when I visualize and attempt to teleport there.

Also I have tried to use that method that you've described that lots of mangakas use, of using a 3D program for setting up perspective and drawing over it, once or twice. However I haven't had much luck with that method, probably because I never have time or interest to sit down and spend enough time on drawings anymore. :/ (oh high school, sitting in the back row sketching, how I miss you so...)

Originally Posted by ZAD

Also I have tried to use that method that you've described that lots of mangakas use, of using a 3D program for setting up perspective and drawing over it, once or twice. However I haven't had much luck with that method, probably because I never have time or interest to sit down and spend enough time on drawings anymore. :/ (oh high school, sitting in the back row sketching, how I miss you so...)

I didn't really know manga artists used the technique in a widespread manner (but I don't really read manga); it's interesting to know.

Methods involving tracing do still require some patience and the results are invariably different for each person if one is not trying to do a 1:1 detail copy, so it's entirely possible that work you consider unsuccessful would be satisfactory in the eyes of someone else.

Originally Posted by ZAD

I was mostly planning on moving the viewpoint around the scene to imagine walking through it. But having something concrete like that would probably help a lot more!

I have also approached things in this regard before, but I find that the strongest memories end up being the ones of focus, i.e. the memories of doing actual work on the scene, etc. And even then, right now I have a stronger memory the imagined 3D scene of potentially working on that Doric column I described to you, vs the last model I actually made (I can't even remember what it was).

Was going to say something else, but as always, I forgot what it was.

I know it's been a while since the last post -- Darkest, here's one example that kind of goes with what I was talking about, and also an interesting interview with the creator of Oyasumi Punpun which I found fascinating: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3vtvdy . In this case though, I think he only uses images and the transform tool, rather than actual 3D technology, and he works with real life objects and photographs a lot. If I see a better example I'll add it.

Also wanted to post in this workbook to say I'm going to be getting more active with my LDing again after having an "off month" (and a half). I'm coming up on my 50th LD since starting again this August and I really want to do something to improve their stability and length, as well as having them feel more "real" and convincing while still understanding that everything I'm experiencing is my own subconscious creation. On that note I think I'll be delving a little more into WILD territory, and maybe have one or two WBTB/WILD attempts each week.

New goals:
* Try to WILD 1-2 times a week
* Meet my dream guide more consistently
* More grounded scenarios and characters/figures
* More stability/length

Huge status report/recent thoughts post incoming.

Had three more lucids this morning, but as has been usual lately, they were pretty short and I didn't have much of my daytime consciousness present to remember my goals. I really want to sit down in my dreams and anchor myself so I can avoid both A) doing anything crazy too soon, and B) letting myself go along with the dream's narrative. I've also been finding that dream sex is almost inevitable when I become lucid (this is not the case in regular dreams), which is frustrating.

Some things I want to try:
Sit down and anchor myself completely at the beginning of my next lucid
Once anchored, order my subconscious not to wake up until I say so
Identify when the dream begins to fade, and do simple sums

As I'm rounding past 60 LDs since August, I'm realizing that I have the patterns and habits mostly down to get a good number of lucids per week, and that I need to shift my thinking from only "I need to get lucid tonight!" to also "I need to be ready the next time I become lucid". I'd really like to be lucid every night, but I think eventually I have to strategize sort of like "bulking and cutting" in fitness. In DV terms I guess bulking would be "Attaining Lucidity" (increasing your raw LD frequency), and cutting would be "Dream Control" (increasing the quality of each individual lucid in length, clarity, my own capabilities, etc.).

I've also been suffering with shoddy recall lately due to a lapse in DJ discipline which I want to remedy with another stab at using the method of loci. I've tried memory palaces and the peg system in the past for dream journaling, but haven't met much success with either of the two. Because of this, my aim this time is to combine them.

For instance, in the peg system you would use "run, shoe, tree, door, ..." to represent the numbers one, two, three, four, and then create a strong image/scene associating the element (gun) with the thing you want to remember (eggs), so in that case you would picture a gun shooting a bullet right through the egg, and imagine how easily it would break through the shell, how messy it would get, etc. (the grosser/more vivid the better). In the memory palace you simply place representative items of the thing you want to remember in select places around a place you know well or an imagined place, then take "walks" through the palace to remember and enforce the memories.

To combine the methods, I'm modifying a suggestion by redditor /u/JacksonD7 who's performing the AILD tests over there, who uses a palace made up of a ten-story building. Each of the floors is small and has three doors labelled "who", "what", "where", and put relevant people, places, items etc. in those. So for the combination method, I've decided to make the floors themed to align with the peg system. The first floor is an armory filled with guns on the walls, the second floor is a walk-in shoe closet, the third floor has greenhouse windows and is filled with house plants and bonsais, etc.

My hope is that this works better than either system in isolation. Better than the peg system because when I wake up after having these dreams and want to stay asleep enough to go back to bed, the part of my brain that would usually be able to create a vivid image linking the two things is not very active. Better than the method of loci for a similar reason, because encoding key people/places/things into items that I can place in the palaces uses the aforementioned part of my brain being shut off. So in this way I can kind of just throw the literal dream elements (people, places, things) into the rooms instead of having to actually synthesize an image on the spot in that state of mind.

Good to see you around!

So this combined memory method aims to help consolidate the memories in the periods between wakes and maybe also the final wake. Do you still plan on journalling the details afterwards? Also, would you be coming back to past dreams in a review as in MILD?

Originally Posted by NyxCC

Do you still plan on journalling the details afterwards?

Yep, that's the plan! Part of the benefit of this method is that on days when I don't have time to journal immediately after waking, I've still got something to pull from when I have time to journal them later. I've tried keeping a physical DJ at the bedside and writing at each wake session, and that's pretty much the gold standard, but it can be loud and annoying or just wake me up too much to fall back asleep. Also, when I want to jump back in and DEILD, I don't want to move, so this helps then too.

Originally Posted by NyxCC

Also, would you be coming back to past dreams in a review as in MILD?

That's the second benefit. I actually have a person stationed in each of the rooms who I can discuss the dream stored there with, sort of like an attendant. For example in the gun room, it's Agent K from MIB . That way I can talk to them if I forget a detail or just to review the dream later, and I can ask them to flush out the dream from a room.

Anyway it's all in prototype stages for now, but it's looking good so far (the first night I remembered around 9 dreams total).