Thread: I just can't get my head around nonexistence after death

I know exactly what you mean, but look at it this way - that's how it was before you were born too.

Yeah and also when I am asleep, but that still doesn't cure my confusion

Originally Posted by Ginsan

I mean... You can't just be 'gone', right? That's just... Strange

It's strange because all we know is being conscious. I find that that analogy above makes perfect sense. For all intents and purposes, the neurological processes that are what we call consciousness no longer occur after death. So we experience nothing. The light is off, and the plug has been severed.

I find this so strange I can not even form a proper question.. The best thing I can come up with is: how does nonextistence after death make you feel?

There's nothing I can do about it. I just accept that it's going to happen. I don't feel happy, but I'm not sad about it either. I can't even say I'll miss anything, because I literally will not have the ability to miss.

What color does your left elbow see? That color is what your consciousness will be like when you are dead.

You're having trouble imagining yourself not existing because it's literally impossible. In order to even imagine a world in which you don't exist, you're observing from the viewpoint of an imaginary you who still exists. But in that world, you wouldn't actually be there to notice yourself not existing. So of course it's impossible to imagine. It isn't just you. Nobody can do it.

And what's with the "it's just like sleep" idea? No, it isn't. I'd think that on this forum this would have been brought up by now. You're still experiencing things while you're asleep, you're just not very aware of them and/or don't remember. I might compare it more to being black-out drunk, or receiving whatever it is that 'puts you out' while getting an operation.

Think of a bath tub full of water, then empty all the water down the drain. It's absolutely nothing like that.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

Think of a bath tub full of water, then empty all the water down the drain. It's absolutely nothing like that.

Imagine a hotdog bun.

There is nothing to get. It is a pretty simple concept. If you don't exist then you don't exist. You don't experience or feel anything because you are not here anymore. To me that seems like pretty much the worst possible thing that could ever happen to a person, not existing anymore.

Originally Posted by Alric

There is nothing to get. It is a pretty simple concept. If you don't exist then you don't exist. You don't experience or feel anything because you are not here anymore. To me that seems like pretty much the worst possible thing that could ever happen to a person, not existing anymore.

Nah, the Hell idea is infinitely worse. Think of it this way... If you were going to be on fire forever, would you want to be on anesthesia that keeps you unconscious the whole time, or would you rather be med free and experience being on fire the whole time?

^^ Yeah, Hell would definitely be worse than nothing, I think.

As long as I'm here, I might as well bite:

Originally Posted by Dianeva

And what's with the "it's just like sleep" idea? No, it isn't. I'd think that on this forum this would have been brought up by now. You're still experiencing things while you're asleep, you're just not very aware of them and/or don't remember. I might compare it more to being black-out drunk, or receiving whatever it is that 'puts you out' while getting an operation.

Actually, philosophically speaking, sleep has been called "the little death" for a very long time. Yes, your brain is functioning at all times (even when blacked-out drunk), and yes, a dedicated LD'er can be conscious through all phases of sleep and witness something throughout the night, even if that something is decidedly nothing. But, though it is certainly not "the same when you fall asleep sleep," some portions of sleep do resemble death. For instance:

*Sleep is a full abandonment of reality. With undisturbed sleep, you are literally moving your consciousness on to another place, a place completely removed from reality...just like death.

*If you are not a sleep yogi, you likely spend at least an hour every night (probably more) in a state of total unconsciousness; you are not dreaming, thinking, remembering, or doing anything that registers a "You" on any chart. You as a conscious entity do not exist, period, during this time ... just like death.

*During delta sleep (2nd stage NREM) even your body forgets about you: It can be very difficult to wake a person up during delta, simply because their consciousness has been fully negated during that period... just like death. I've often wondered if the real reason for REM is to coax your consciousness back into action after that shutdown.

*Back to those sleep yogis for a second (can't have a thread like this without referencing the Tibetans, I guess ): Sleep yogis use their experience of lucidity during delta sleep to prepare themselves for experiencing the void of death. They've found that sleep is great practice for death, and, after centuries of practice, have yet to find a reason to deny it. Can we really argue with the Tibetans that sleep does not resemble death? Is arguing against the Tibetans even allowed on these forums?

At any rate (tl;dr): Sleep has often, if not always, been associated with death by people who have thought very seriously about both subjects. Why is this relevant to the OP? Because he might be able to use his LD'ing skills to answer his own question: manage to be lucid during delta, Ginsan, and you might just manage to get a tiny taste of what death might feel like -- well, what "nothing" feels like, at least, which is a little like death.

Originally Posted by Ginsan

I just can't get my head around nonexistence after death. When you die, you die. There is no consciousness, you are just gone. This is just too weird for me. I no longer feel or think? What the hell? For all of eternity? That's just weird, man, I really can't get my head around this. Anyone please help me this has been bugging me for years.
I mean... You can't just be 'gone', right? That's just... Strange

And don't tell me "it's the same when you fall asleep" because I already know that, instead, tell me how that makes you feel, what kind of feeling do you get when thinking about nonextistence after death?

True understanding of the concept is never going to occur. The only way to rid yourself of the confusion is to consciously choose to stop being confused. Accept what your mind cannot comprehend, the confusion disappears. You are trying to do the impossible, and continuing to do so is either going to frustrate you, make you more confused, or eventually lead you to the same conclusion as the advice I gave you above. You simply have to accept the idea. There's nothing hidden or special to it, you just have to do it. The answer is unsatisfactory, I totally understand. That doesn't change how things are, however, and it's important to understand that.

Originally Posted by Alric

There is nothing to get. It is a pretty simple concept. If you don't exist then you don't exist. You don't experience or feel anything because you are not here anymore. To me that seems like pretty much the worst possible thing that could ever happen to a person, not existing anymore.

Maybe you are right. You simply don't feel it. It is simple as that, nothing to contemplate any furter. But still..

Originally Posted by Ginsan

I just can't get my head around nonexistence after death. When you die, you die. There is no consciousness, you are just gone. This is just too weird for me. I no longer feel or think? What the hell? For all of eternity? That's just weird, man, I really can't get my head around this. Anyone please help me this has been bugging me for years.
I mean... You can't just be 'gone', right? That's just... Strange

And don't tell me "it's the same when you fall asleep" because I already know that, instead, tell me how that makes you feel, what kind of feeling do you get when thinking about nonextistence after death?

When I die, I won't be thinking anything because I'll be dead. I won't feel anything because I will be dead.

I always think that we die the same way we were born. What was I before I was born? I wasn't. I think it is the same way with death.

I don't see anything to be concerned about (besides the pain associated with the method of death) in the act of dying. When I die my consciousness, that is, the notion of my separateness from the rest of the universe, will end.

Of course, with this reasoning, I am pushing aside an afterlife, which I consider to be metaphysical and religious wishful thinking.

I would rather be on fire forever than not exist. While I am me and I am thinking clearly I can say with certainty that I would rather be tortured than killed any day of the week. There is a possibility that while being tortured and in extreme pain I would thinking that I would rather be dead but that would just be the pain talking.

Any way, I don't believe in hell any way. If I was actually on fire forever I am sure I would eventually get used to it, none of this "But it is magic fire you never get used to." Also heaven would probably be the far worse place to go when you die. Since heaven is supposed to be perfect bliss where you can't sin it is pretty obvious that you suffer a mind wipe and you no longer exit as a person.

In fact maybe that is what heaven is, just death. You die and you no longer feel anything because you cease to exist. Since you don't feel anything and are nothing you can't feel pain and you are at peace and no longer think or sin.

Imagine what you were like before you existed. You'll probably be the same after you finish existing. No, its not helpful in the slightest (but then again, what is?). Unfortunately, the lack of consciousness during sleep is the closest we can get and, even then, there's still a tiny spark of brain activity to bring you back.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Nah, the Hell idea is infinitely worse. Think of it this way... If you were going to be on fire forever, would you want to be on anesthesia that keeps you unconscious the whole time, or would you rather be med free and experience being on fire the whole time?

It sounds horrible but I think I'd rather go to Hell. I think after being on fire for soooo long (and somehow not dying) it'd somehow numb me out, and I can just... stand there and think and daydream, I guess. Again, I know it sounds horrible, but I feel like nothing is worse than not existing. It's a nightmare... but at least it's a dream. I can't wrap my head around the idea of "no longer being me." I've tried to imagine it and it's horrible.

If you think non-existence can be compared as worse or better in regard to anything then stop pretending you understand it.

Srs, admitting you can't possibly understand something and then saying that obviously it must be worse or better than something you can understand is fucking irritating to read.

One thing that has already been mentioned in this thread that sounds very logic, is that death would be the same as it was before one was born. This idea of what death would be like, sounded like the most likely idea for me to be true. Until the day I questioned if this idea really could be the thing. So how can we really be sure if death is anything like before we where born? If we didnt have a consciousness before we where born, but then got one. Then maybe the death of our current form wich is consciousness, is just taking another form. Because nothing that exists is ever being destroyed, but merely changes form. What if our cousciousness is just as solid as any free floating piece of information that is available to percieve thru a mobilephone, or radio etc. The source of any information might be destroyed, but for example. If a radio station sends out information for anyone to pick up. But then gets completely destroyed, then the last radio signals that has been sended is still available to catch hold on, even if the source has been destroyed after the information has been recieved. So this would make the information completely independent and free, even if it would get lost into space and not longer in reach for any one to pick up.

This idea that there might be some kind of "after life", sounds very absurd for most people, since we already "know" how things work in life. Once your dead your dead many would like to say, and sure that might actually be true! but what if it's not? What if consciousness still will be there after the body stops to function. That sounds like an impossible mind twisting thing out of this world, dosn't it? But what do you think that seeing would be for a person who is born blind would be like? A person who have never seen might think that seeing is something like a weird mix between hearing/feel/touching/smelling, because that is what a born blind person could experience. So why wouldn't a born blind person think that seeing, would be the most absurd thing in this world if he/she got the abillity to see?. And what if the whole world was born without the abillity to see. Then seeing would probably be just one of those very weird/absurd theorys if someone came up with that in a blind world. So just because something is what we really believe or "know" it is like. How can we really be sure that what seems to be the truth, really is the truth? and then fight for this "truth" to be the one and only truth? we might never know this before we really are dead, and it might not be such a good idea, to never let the mind take a break from this ideas. But thinking and questioning about our existence once in a while will never hurt.

Originally Posted by Alric

I would rather be on fire forever than not exist. While I am me and I am thinking clearly I can say with certainty that I would rather be tortured than killed any day of the week. There is a possibility that while being tortured and in extreme pain I would thinking that I would rather be dead but that would just be the pain talking.

Any way, I don't believe in hell any way. If I was actually on fire forever I am sure I would eventually get used to it, none of this "But it is magic fire you never get used to." Also heaven would probably be the far worse place to go when you die. Since heaven is supposed to be perfect bliss where you can't sin it is pretty obvious that you suffer a mind wipe and you no longer exit as a person.

In fact maybe that is what heaven is, just death. You die and you no longer feel anything because you cease to exist. Since you don't feel anything and are nothing you can't feel pain and you are at peace and no longer think or sin.

I would prefer temporary torture to eternal unconsciousness, but I would prefer eternal unconsciousness to eternal torture. If you were going to be on fire forever, would you want anesthesia if it were an option, or would you turn it down? What if while on fire, you could press a button that makes you unconscious for eight hours and you could keep pressing it as many times as you want to? Would you ever press the button?

If Heaven is bliss, it would not get miserable. The definition of bliss involves not being miserable. Also, you would never get used to being on fire if you could feel it. It would be too terrible to get used to. You would never prefer torture to bliss. They are opposites, and they are defined by the experiences they cause.

I think the concept is easy to understand, and it is a lot worse to be dead. I value my thoughts so losing those thoughts is something that is very bad. I would most definitely rather be tortured than not exist, there isn't even a compression. Anything plus living is better than not existing.

It seems like you would get used to being on fire eventually, since pain is just signals going to your brain. Eventually your brain is going to adapt and start ignoring those signals since they are always on. Then your not going to feel pain anymore. Then I guess you would be like a fire elemental, walking around and being on fire all the time and that is actually pretty badass. So you go to hell you get to become a fire elemental, not too bad.

Also I wasn't talking about bliss but mindless bliss. Such as an overload of chemicals in your brain making you feel pleasure. Your body might feel pleasurable but if your mind is gone you don't really exist anymore. I would much rather face torture and keep my mind rather than face bliss and lose my mind. In heaven you are not supposed to be able to sin, and you are supposed to be happy. Well that implies you have lost your mind, and I will tell you why. 1. Just thinking bad things is consider a sin so that means you are no longer capable of thinking about a great deal of things. 2. Thinking about everyone burning in hell would be sad so that memory has to be erased, as well as the memory of all your friends and family who are no longer with you because they went to hell. So heaven implies you taking significant damage to your memories and personality.

Of course heaven and hell don't exist and don't even make logical sense, so the issue is kind of moot. Just saying I would rather be in pain and have my mind in tact than to be a vegetable in a blissed out state.

And yet they keep doing it. Bro, from what standpoint do you even ascertain the value you ascribe to your thoughts if you don't exist to ascribe value in the first place?

Actually, it is orgasm that is called the little death or petite mort, not sleep.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Actually, philosophically speaking, sleep has been called "the little death" for a very long time. .