Thread: How to have an Instant WILD

Originally Posted by moongrass

Thankyou for asking, I have the same question. Sometimes it feels like I actually twitch my arm or something. IDK how to tell if I am really moving it or not.

When it happens you will know!

Originally Posted by mcwillis

I was a struggler too until I read both books several times. I must admit I was getting annoyed in the past because people weren't reading the book and expecting to be spoon fed but I have calmed down now. Ok, hold your arm out straight and move it up and down a few inches. You can feel your muscles extending and contracting, you can feel your arm working to defy the force of gravity. When I do the phantom wiggling I just imagine these feelings as if I am moving my physical arm. Often my physical arm will be perfectly still and my 'other' arm is moving freely as it has seperated from my physical arm.

Firstly, I perfectly undertand you. I like reading a lot (Hard copies) and also got annoyed when someone wanted to take advantage of that without the fuss of reading the book themselves.

In this case, however, as we're all strugglers and you seem to be an expert, it's very nice of you to take the trouble of explaining parts of the book, than, even when reading it, we fail to understand.

So I am bothering you again with some questions. One that I am most concerned about. Are you reading the ebook that can be downloaded from obe4u or the hard copy? Mine doesn't have this part:

Originally Posted by mcwillis

I am reading the workbook for the fourth time as I have been making mistakes and am analysing my actions to see where I am going wrong; and finding the answers! Please note it is the workbook and not the textbook. I am going to paste below an extract from the chapter entitled 'Extremely Important Advice'.

Quoting Mr. Raduga:

"If you veer off the path I have shown you, you'll be either completely depriving yourself of a rewarding experience, or at least making such an experience a very rare event. I often have to fight with one very strange aspect of human psychology: the desire to do things in one's own way in a field that one knows nothing about..........."

I've tried the 'search' button on the pdf but I lack the part I've underlined and coloured. And, what do you call the workbook and what the textbook?

There's something amiss here...

Next issue (sorry this is sooo long winded,,,!)

This is what my Index looks like:

Part 1................................................. .............................................5
Entering the Phase State............................................. ....................5
Chapter 1 – General Background........................................ ......5
Chapter 2 – Indirect Techniques........................................ .....17
Chapter 3 – Direct Techniques........................................ ........54
Chapter 4 – Becoming Conscious While Dreaming...............69
Chapter 5 – Non-autonomous Methods...................................79
Part II................................................ ............................................91
Managing the Out-of-Body Experience.......................................9 1
Chapter 6 - Deepening......................................... ....................91
Chapter 7 - Maintaining....................................... .................102
Chapter 8 - Primary skills............................................ ..........114
Chapter 9 - Translocation and Finding Objects.....................132
Chapter 10 - Application....................................... ................145
Part III............................................... .........................................165
Auxiliary Information....................................... .........................165
Chapter 11 – Useful Tips.............................................. .........165
Chapter 12 – Practitioners’ Experiences...............................172
Chapter 13 - Putting a Face on the Phenomenon..................197
Chapter 14 – Final Test.............................................. ...........204
Appendix.......................................... ..........................................214

That's why I hadn't notice the tip on page 40 as you told me.

Then, Training PHANTOM WIGGLING

Training
To train the technique of phantom wiggling, relax a hand
for several minutes while lying down, eyes closed. Then,
aggressively envision the following hand movements, without
moving any muscles, for two to three minutes each: rotating, updown,
left-right, extending the fingers and drawing the fingers
together, clenching and unclenching a fist. No sensations will
occur at first. Gradually, the sensation of muscular action will
become so apparent that the perceived movement will be
indistinguishable from real movement. During the first training
attempts, practitioners are often tempted to open their eyes to see
if actual movement is occurring – that’s how real the sensation
feels.

I told you about the success I had moving one finger when I woke up without moving, and also succesfull on Listening In.
In the Training, though, am I to feel the same? The ethereal body moving and feeling as if I was really moving??? 'Cause during training in waking hours, nothing moves, ever. If I did it being half-conscious, where I am failing at while fully conscious? (I keep my eyes closed all the time).

I'll read the book consciously from beginning to end, I promise. I am only concerned at this not being complete...

Thanks for your help!

Originally Posted by BridgetJones09

In the Training, though, am I to feel the same? The ethereal body moving and feeling as if I was really moving??? 'Cause during training in waking hours, nothing moves, ever. If I did it being half-conscious, where I am failing at while fully conscious? (I keep my eyes closed all the time).

Well, I haven't finished reading the book, but training the Phantom Wiggling technique (what a silly name ) after a while of trying to move my imaginary finger I felt as though my finger just touched the palm of my hand, except I wasn't moving it
This is something that happens to me a LOT when I'm really sleepy and imagining things in my mind. Once I imagined I was wearing glasses and I felt something behind my ear, which made me open my eyes and stand up real abruptly

Originally Posted by BridgetJones09

In this case, however, as we're all strugglers and you seem to be an expert, it's very nice of you to take the trouble of explaining parts of the book, than, even when reading it, we fail to understand.

I'm not an expert! Mr. Raduga is an expert. I have only come to understand through study and practice.

Originally Posted by BridgetJones09

I've tried the 'search' button on the pdf but I lack the part I've underlined and coloured. And, what do you call the workbook and what the textbook?

This is the download link which has a folder of both books

The textbook is 'School of ...'
The workbook is 'Ultimate yoga ...'

Thanks for the flower!

Originally Posted by vmenge

Well, I haven't finished reading the book, but training the Phantom Wiggling technique (what a silly name ) after a while of trying to move my imaginary finger I felt as though my finger just touched the palm of my hand, except I wasn't moving it
This is something that happens to me a LOT when I'm really sleepy and imagining things in my mind. Once I imagined I was wearing glasses and I felt something behind my ear, which made me open my eyes and stand up real abruptly

The strangest thing I've experienced so far is something hitting me on the head!

Originally Posted by mcwillis

I'm not an expert! Mr. Raduga is an expert. I have only come to understand through study and practice.

I think we understand that, it's just, for my part, some things aren't in the book like when I asked you if you were supposed to feel your hand physically tense up. Anyhow, I'm going pretty good now, I'm going to (hopefully) have a REAL night of attempts tonight, and I'll post my results here with no questions unless I've first looked them up in the book I promise

Originally Posted by mcwillis

The strangest thing I've experienced so far is something hitting me on the head!

I tend to doze off a LOT when thinking about stuff right before sleep, and have sorts of mini-dreams (unfortunately whenever I want to do this consciously to have a VILD it never works ), so lots of strange stuff like this happens.
More than once I woke up with a jump after dozing off thinking about walking somewhere and then falling
Visualization is something I won't be trying with other indirect techniques

Originally Posted by vmenge
Well, I haven't finished reading the book, but training the Phantom Wiggling technique (what a silly name ) after a while of trying to move my imaginary finger I felt as though my finger just touched the palm of my hand, except I wasn't moving it
This is something that happens to me a LOT when I'm really sleepy and imagining things in my mind. Once I imagined I was wearing glasses and I felt something behind my ear, which made me open my eyes and stand up real abruptly

It only happens when you're sleepy or also when you're training fully conscious?

Originally Posted by mcwillis

The strangest thing I've experienced so far is something hitting me on the head!

Spooky, right?

But hey, guys. Nothing is happening to me during the training of the technique...some 'pins and needles' sensation, and nothing else. Should I go on? I usually get distracted after trying for a while and not getting anywhere.

After my first attempt successupon awakening! What a shame!

mcwillis:Thanks for the info. I didn't have 'The Ultimate Yoga...' Was just being dumb

Originally Posted by BridgetJones09

Spooky, right?

I didn't experience it as being spooky as I knew it was just a hynogogic/hynopompic phenomena.

Originally Posted by BridgetJones09

But hey, guys. Nothing is happening to me during the training of the technique...some 'pins and needles' sensation, and nothing else. Should I go on? I usually get distracted after trying for a while and not getting anywhere.

Don't expect any experience whilst practicing Indirect Techniques. All you are doing is just that, practicing, ready for when you use them upon awakening. You need to know what you are going to do when you awaken with a clear cut plan. That is all.

Originally Posted by BridgetJones09

It only happens when you're sleepy or also when you're training fully conscious?

Sleepy I guess... but I'm sleepy during 90% of my day so I guess it counts as sort of conscious?

Originally Posted by vmenge

Visualization is something I won't be trying with other indirect techniques

Visualisation is one of the Secondary Indirect Techniques, page 26 of the textbook. Mr. Raduga suggests not to dismiss certain techniques as they don't work for you. In time they may later be of immense value to you

Just thought I'd message in to say thank you thank you thank you for posting this thread mcwillis

I read the book thoroughly a couple of days ago (especially the indirect technique bit) and last night I finally succeeded in waking up without moving. I immediately tried to 'roll out' but felt like I'd moved in RL so was worried it wouldn't work... but I figured the book said there's still hope if you've only moved a little bit so I attempted 'forced falling asleep' but couldn't quite figure out how to do it.

So... I remembered the 'mobile phone' technique where you imagine holding a phone. As soon as I became aware of my hand I felt a strange plastic feeling ring in my hand. It felt 100% real to the point where I questioned whether I'd actually picked something up in my sleep and was now holding it. I could easily move it around in my hand and feel every detail.

So I sat up in bed, looked around the room and thought that it hadn't worked because my room looked so real and I felt awake so I lay back down and went to sleep.

Now upon wakening I realised that it had worked. Last night during my 'dream' my room was tidy and it was sunny outside (even though it was night and my room's actually quite a mess ) I hadn't been prepared for such an easy realistic transition. I couldn't tell the difference between reality and the dream world and felt no wierd vibrations or HI. I felt so awake and conscious and everything was so clear and vivid, totally different from DILDs I've had in the past

Thanks so much again for this! I've been unsuccessfully trying to LD again for almost 5 months now and have been in a dry spell for two years so this progress is making me feel on top of the world.
I really can't wait til tonight- I'll be prepared for the realism and hopefully succeed.

Originally Posted by bellatrix18

Just thought I'd message in to say thank you thank you thank you for posting this thread mcwillis

I read the book thoroughly a couple of days ago (especially the indirect technique bit) and last night I finally succeeded in waking up without moving. I immediately tried to 'roll out' but felt like I'd moved in RL so was worried it wouldn't work... but I figured the book said there's still hope if you've only moved a little bit so I attempted 'forced falling asleep' but couldn't quite figure out how to do it.

So... I remembered the 'mobile phone' technique where you imagine holding a phone. As soon as I became aware of my hand I felt a strange plastic feeling ring in my hand. It felt 100% real to the point where I questioned whether I'd actually picked something up in my sleep and was now holding it. I could easily move it around in my hand and feel every detail.

So I sat up in bed, looked around the room and thought that it hadn't worked because my room looked so real and I felt awake so I lay back down and went to sleep.

Now upon wakening I realised that it had worked. Last night during my 'dream' my room was tidy and it was sunny outside (even though it was night and my room's actually quite a mess ) I hadn't been prepared for such an easy realistic transition. I couldn't tell the difference between reality and the dream world and felt no wierd vibrations or HI. I felt so awake and conscious and everything was so clear and vivid, totally different from DILDs I've had in the past

Thanks so much again for this! I've been unsuccessfully trying to LD again for almost 5 months now and have been in a dry spell for two years so this progress is making me feel on top of the world.
I really can't wait til tonight- I'll be prepared for the realism and hopefully succeed.

I didn't call this thread how to have an Instant WILD for nothing!

Originally Posted by PercyLucid

There is a lot of literature out there which is great to add to knowledge.

DEILD which requires mantras and hard work, and my own made method L-DEILD which is very close to what you posted, but requires to be completed from a lucid dreaming.

I wouldnt say that its your own technique because DEILD is known as Dream chaining. Which is one lucid after another. "L-DEILD"

You just call it something differient

Well I for one have still had no success >< I have no time to try this on weekdays, and last weekend I had to take my mom to the airport at 5:30 a.m. so was tired to the point of exhaustion all day. I tried to go to bed early, but all I did was have various times I woke up and just rolled over to sleep-in. I need some advice on how to proceed with my situation, or should I just continue as I'm doing now? Thanks.

Originally Posted by Sarge_Maximus2

Well I for one have still had no success >< I have no time to try this on weekdays, and last weekend I had to take my mom to the airport at 5:30 a.m. so was tired to the point of exhaustion all day. I tried to go to bed early, but all I did was have various times I woke up and just rolled over to sleep-in. I need some advice on how to proceed with my situation, or should I just continue as I'm doing now? Thanks.

Some of us don't have the luxury of being able to do this during the week so weekends are your best chance. How are you training yourself to awaken without moving? How much sleep are you getting before waking up in the morning? How long are you staying awake before going back to bed to use the Indirect Techniques? How many Indirect Techniques have you chosen for a cycle to be used when you wake up? How many cycles of Indirect Techniques do you do even though you roll over?

Four days ago I had a really cool experience. I woke up and rolled over to check the emails on my ipod, part of the email was coherent, but most was jibberish. I rolled back over to sleep some more, then realized that I hadn't moved. By the time i realized this I was too awake and moved my actual body. It was really cool though, and felt so real and clear, like belatrix18 said.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

Some of us don't have the luxury of being able to do this during the week so weekends are your best chance. How are you training yourself to awaken without moving? How much sleep are you getting before waking up in the morning? How long are you staying awake before going back to bed to use the Indirect Techniques? How many Indirect Techniques have you chosen for a cycle to be used when you wake up? How many cycles of Indirect Techniques do you do even though you roll over?

I know what you mean. But to answer your questions:
I havn't been training myself, I've just been trying to keep it in mind, which seemed to work for me when I was using Crazyinsane's method. I am getting 6 hours of sleep before hand. I am staying awake on average of 0.50 - 10 minutes. I have 3 techniques to cycle: Straining the brain, phantom wiggling, and internal listening. I usually can do two but I've done all three and even looped the process a couple of times. Thanks again.

Well, after 6 nights trying to wake up without moving, I got as close as I could today. I had a terrible traumatizing nightmare, and woke up without moving. Then as I felt relief I don't remember it quite, but I thought I either opened my eyes or moved, and instantly reminded myself I shouldn't have. Oh well...
But then I closed my eyes and tried to get my body to move along the Rotation indirect technique. Weirdly enough I felt it work even though the sensation I felt was that I was rocking my body back and forth (go figure). After 3 seconds I tried changing to the Listening In indirect technique, but then I heard my computer fan and that ruined it for me completely. So close

edit: corrected terrible grammar wow

Originally Posted by mcguinnessdr

Four days ago I had a really cool experience. I woke up and rolled over to check the emails on my ipod, part of the email was coherent, but most was jibberish. I rolled back over to sleep some more, then realized that I hadn't moved. By the time i realized this I was too awake and moved my actual body. It was really cool though, and felt so real and clear, like belatrix18 said.

Yes this can be quite common.

Originally Posted by Sarge_Maximus2

I know what you mean. But to answer your questions:
I havn't been training myself, I've just been trying to keep it in mind, which seemed to work for me when I was using Crazyinsane's method. I am getting 6 hours of sleep before hand. I am staying awake on average of 0.50 - 10 minutes. I have 3 techniques to cycle: Straining the brain, phantom wiggling, and internal listening. I usually can do two but I've done all three and even looped the process a couple of times. Thanks again.

I can see immediately that when you say that you even looped the process a couple of times you are saying that it was an accomplishment. The cyling of the three techniques you have chosen is vital. A minimum of four cycles is needed. If after five you cycles you don't succeed go back to sleep and go through the process again at your next natural awakening. Also experiment with the other Indirect Techniques as they may be very valuable for you.

Originally Posted by vmenge

Well, after 6 nights trying to wake up without moving, I got as close as I could today. I had a terrible traumatizing nightmare, and woke up without moving. Then as I felt relief I don't remember it quite, but I thought I either opened my eyes or moved, and instantly reminded myself I shouldn't have. Oh well...
But then I closed my eyes and trying to get my body to move along the Rotation indirect technique. Weirdly enough I felt it work even though the sensation I felt was that I was rocking my body back and forth (go figure). After 3 seconds I tried changing to the Listening In indirect technique, but then I heard my computer fan and that ruined it for me completely. So close

A little movement doesn't necessarily mean failure, it just greatly reduces your chance of success. If you felt phantom movement you are nearly there. Did you awakwen naturally or did you use an alarm? I ask this as you say your computer was on and I used my laptop as an alarm system but I found out that using an alarm is highly detrimental. Mr. Raduga says using an alarm reduces your chance of success by 50-75%.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

A little movement doesn't necessarily mean failure, it just greatly reduces your chance of success. If you felt phantom movement you are nearly there. Did you awakwen naturally or did you use an alarm? I ask this as you say your computer was on and I used my laptop as an alarm system but I found out that using an alarm is highly detrimental. Mr. Raduga says using an alarm reduces your chance of success by 50-75%.

Every attempt I made at trying to wake up and not moving was done without any alarm of sorts, I've read about what Raduga said about using an alarm in a post of yours before I started trying his methods (well, I'm pretty sure it was a post of yours, but I may be wrong)
Well, hopefully I'll have better luck tonight

Originally Posted by mcwillis

I can see immediately that when you say that you even looped the process a couple of times you are saying that it was an accomplishment. The cyling of the three techniques you have chosen is vital. A minimum of four cycles is needed. If after five you cycles you don't succeed go back to sleep and go through the process again at your next natural awakening. Also experiment with the other Indirect Techniques as they may be very valuable for you.

Alright, thanks. Also, (and just let me know if this is in the book) but how do you lucid dream instead of OBE using these techniques?