Thread: What happened? Post Your WILD Attempts, Good or Bad, Here

SUCCESS..but FAILURE at the same time. wawawhhaaaat?

I was having a nice vivid, high awareness dream, posssibly because i am sick. I was almost expecting that the dream would end by the time it did. I was questioning many things like why my cast was gone...
Anyway, i managed to stay still, remember my dream and BAM. it worked. i visualized my dream, and within two seconds, anextremely umcomfortable feeling came across me. My head and chest felt like t hey were under extreme pressure. The it receeded. This happened twice more. I gave up. Yes. Gave up. Kill me. I was dreaming. Kill me. I know that now, because i woke up after a nice other non luicid dream. I DEILDed right into my dream room. Whatever, i know i can get it tonight. This is the third or fourth time i got this to work. Oh, and for the record, i started my DJ 8 days ago.

Oh, and by the way, the transition to the dream was different thanthe other times: smooth and stable. The pressure feeling happened, then i 'gave up', and got out of my 'bed'. I was just...there. Weird...

Sounds like you got it, ThAtaInTmE. Mostly. I won't repeat what a waste of time it is to dwell on, fear, or worse, heed the "noise," since I think you get that. Pressure is noise, too, BTW; none of it matters.

Good luck with your next DEILD!

Originally Posted by Sageous

Pressure is noise, too, BTW; none of it matters.

Yes, but the noise has an unfortunate catch. It hurts ALOT. but since i made it into the dream, i might not have to endure it too long

Originally Posted by Sageous

Good luck with your next DEILD!

Thanks, but i wont need luck

I hope that in good time i can get good at DEILD, then WILD.

^^ When you next feel the pain, try to remember that this would be happening anyway (you're just consciously noticing it), so it must be harmless; it might not hurt as much then. Remember also that pain may be annoying and, well, painful, but it too is just noise (even in waking life).

... just a thought.

Glad you won't need luck, BTW!

P.S. I hope you're feeling better/healed soon!

Originally Posted by Sageous

but it too is just noise (even in waking life).

Ha! I was just thinking about this today. #Synchronicity

So, I think I made progress last night/this morning. I don't have much time but I want to post this real quick... I WBTB WILD and was able to form a dream from HI/HH. I have to honest I have a memory gap somewhere in between laying down and forming the dream. Maybe it wasn't a true WILD but it was close... DEILD maybe? Anyway, I have a very slight memory of feeling SP again but, because I have been thinking about it so much, I had decided next time I will focus on something else like looking at the back of my eyelids and visualizing. The best way to forget something is to thing about something else. I have found that it helps to visualize myself doing something active. So I ended up visualizing myself walking. Slowly it became more and more real until I realized I was fully in a LD. Then I went on to play in the traffic and let a zombie bite me ect ect.

The point is I think my possible cure to my problem is next time I am in SP to start forming a dream that way I can ignore the SP and my breathing/heartbeat blah blah blah and avoid getting excited.

Good idea?

Still messing around with WILD after 3-4 years of trial and error never finding anything that actually works for me. This is just plain depressing. Last two nights I've been trying it after 6 hours of sleep rather than 4-5. First night I tried reading during my WBTB, but that woke me up far too much. Last night I tried only focusing on my breathing as I was going to sleep, but that wasn't enough and eventually I would just black-out anyway. Tried to WILD again later in the morning with breathing + mantra, nope, that keeps me TOO awake and I can't even get to sleep, even when my body is heavy and my mouth dryer than a desert.

Originally Posted by Xanous

So, I think I made progress last night/this morning. I don't have much time but I want to post this real quick... I WBTB WILD and was able to form a dream from HI/HH. I have to honest I have a memory gap somewhere in between laying down and forming the dream. Maybe it wasn't a true WILD but it was close... DEILD maybe?

A memory gap usually means DILD; but who cares? Lucid is Lucid, however you get there.

Anyway, I have a very slight memory of feeling SP again but, because I have been thinking about it so much, I had decided next time I will focus on something else like looking at the back of my eyelids and visualizing. The best way to forget something is to thing about something else. I have found that it helps to visualize myself doing something active. So I ended up visualizing myself walking. Slowly it became more and more real until I realized I was fully in a LD. Then I went on to play in the traffic and let a zombie bite me ect ect.

The point is I think my possible cure to my problem is next time I am in SP to start forming a dream that way I can ignore the SP and my breathing/heartbeat blah blah blah and avoid getting excited.

Good idea?

Very good idea; looks like you're taking care of the noise!

Originally Posted by KTDM

Still messing around with WILD after 3-4 years of trial and error never finding anything that actually works for me. This is just plain depressing. Last two nights I've been trying it after 6 hours of sleep rather than 4-5. First night I tried reading during my WBTB, but that woke me up far too much. Last night I tried only focusing on my breathing as I was going to sleep, but that wasn't enough and eventually I would just black-out anyway. Tried to WILD again later in the morning with breathing + mantra, nope, that keeps me TOO awake and I can't even get to sleep, even when my body is heavy and my mouth dryer than a desert.

Sounds to me like you may be too light a sleeper for WILD, KTDM. Does DILD work for you?

Also, have you done any experimenting with meditation? That may be a good discipline to adapt toward the goal of calming your mind during WBTB.

Just a couple of thoughts, since 3-4 years seems a long time, especially when what you right shows you're doing the right things.

Originally Posted by Sageous

A memory gap usually means DILD; but who cares? Lucid is Lucid, however you get there.

You're probably right. I don't really care how I get there anymore as long I as I get there. It seems like I have to keep changing methods WILD MILD DILD whatever anyway to suit the moment. Sometimes I WBTB and it just doesn't seem the right time for WILD. Maybe that's just me.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Very good idea; looks like you're taking care of the noise!

Very cool. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Xanous

You're probably right. I don't really care how I get there anymore as long I as I get there. It seems like I have to keep changing methods WILD MILD DILD whatever anyway to suit the moment. Sometimes I WBTB and it just doesn't seem the right time for WILD. Maybe that's just me.

... Or you're realizing that WILD is "a" method for being aware in dreams, and not "the" method. Circumstance dictates the method, and not the other way around.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Sounds to me like you may be too light a sleeper for WILD, KTDM. Does DILD work for you?

Also, have you done any experimenting with meditation? That may be a good discipline to adapt toward the goal of calming your mind during WBTB.

Just a couple of thoughts, since 3-4 years seems a long time, especially when what you right shows you're doing the right things.

DILD doesn't work for me anymore, and I'm also a very heavy sleeper, once I actually get to sleep. Both because of a sedative medication I have to take at night. Perhaps I should try taking it earlier, or something. Last time I tried meditation for my WBTB it just made me more tired, I must've done it wrong or something.
Though I should also say that I think the night before last night, I got one of those WILDs that doesn't take you through hallucinations like a DEILD, but you just start off in the dream knowing that you're dreaming. Got there by lying on my side counting the simple "1, I'm dreaming, 2, I'm dreaming... etc." Might be because of the eye-mask thing I bought. Need to find a way to better use that to my advantage.

Originally Posted by KTDM

DILD doesn't work for me anymore, and I'm also a very heavy sleeper, once I actually get to sleep. Both because of a sedative medication I have to take at night. Perhaps I should try taking it earlier, or something. Last time I tried meditation for my WBTB it just made me more tired, I must've done it wrong or something.

Sorry for misunderstanding; I didn't know you are taking sedatives, so your post appeared to be related to light sleeping, and not to possible effects of medication. Unfortunately I know nothing about medications, except that sedatives and LD'ing do not get along well. I also know that I wouldn't have suggested meditation if I had known you are a deep sleeper, either.

So, basically, never mind! I do suggest that you check out DV's Sleep and Health forum, if you haven't already; you might find some answers there.

Well, nothing to do but to keep trying.
Thanks for the advice, I'll check that out.

I think I'll try to take them earlier during the day so that the sedative effect wears off by the later stages of my sleep.

Okay, I have a few minutes so I can be early to my History class by 10 minutes or so.

Alright, this is some crazy stuff, at least for me, considering how much I complain about not being able to LD more than I should.

I decided to take a nap around 12:20 PM, and set a timer for 1:20 PM. I quickly flexed my muscles just for the lols for like 5 seconds, and let my whole body relax has I let go.

Close my eyes, do the usual routine, let my body relax, keep something up to occupy my mind, so I decided to count.

Of course, that's my biggest challenge to conquer, actually keeping my mind awake enough where I don't do anything sporadic. So, I decided to do something else.

I decide to just think about random things......anything from thinking "BLAH BLAH.....1...2....3....I love you...." etc., I kept the whole act of just thinking random things, and then going back to thinking to myself that I'll keep conscious throughout this whole process.

I started to feel my body vibrating, and I could still think more things without getting too cocky and possibly breaking the state my body is in now. It's as if while I was continuing thinking random things, and not worry about "Oh no, this might wake me up" I just went with it.

And I kept this up for a WHOLE hour.

This may not be seem like much, but I felt how my body charged up (since I was a little tired during the afternoon), and seeing myself stay aware and conscious through the small vibrations, my body "recharging" itself....I think I JUST might have found the solution to my problem.

Now, if I did this for an hour, which felt like 5-10 minutes to me honestly....and I can utilize this state of mind where I'm just thinking random things, and then catching myself at random moments, instead of just doing simple counting, who knows?

Anyway, I have to go, just wanted to give my attempt to WILD during the afternoon. It failed, BUT, I feel recharged and ready to go right now.

It's amazing! Call me crazy, but I kept myself aware for an hour, and it was actually fun doing so! Just think random thoughts link, and just don't focus on your body. Heck, I focused on my own body, but I didn't think TOO much on it. I just saw everything as a natural process, and it's okay to lightly think of my body.

I'm excited, I can't wait to stimulate this feeling again when I go to sleep, and after a WBTB as well!

The whole experience is as if a huge battery was placed on my bed, injected into my body, and started to pump me up with energy while I kept myself conscious thinking random thoughts.

Originally Posted by Linkzelda

Okay, I have a few minutes so I can be early to my History class by 10 minutes or so.

Alright, this is some crazy stuff, at least for me, considering how much I complain about not being able to LD more than I should.

I decided to take a nap around 12:20 PM, and set a timer for 1:20 PM. I quickly flexed my muscles just for the lols for like 5 seconds, and let my whole body relax has I let go.

Close my eyes, do the usual routine, let my body relax, keep something up to occupy my mind, so I decided to count.

Of course, that's my biggest challenge to conquer, actually keeping my mind awake enough where I don't do anything sporadic. So, I decided to do something else.

I decide to just think about random things......anything from thinking "BLAH BLAH.....1...2....3....I love you...." etc., I kept the whole act of just thinking random things, and then going back to thinking to myself that I'll keep conscious throughout this whole process.

I started to feel my body vibrating, and I could still think more things without getting too cocky and possibly breaking the state my body is in now. It's as if while I was continuing thinking random things, and not worry about "Oh no, this might wake me up" I just went with it.

And I kept this up for a WHOLE hour.

This may not be seem like much, but I felt how my body charged up (since I was a little tired during the afternoon), and seeing myself stay aware and conscious through the small vibrations, my body "recharging" itself....I think I JUST might have found the solution to my problem.

Now, if I did this for an hour, which felt like 5-10 minutes to me honestly....and I can utilize this state of mind where I'm just thinking random things, and then catching myself at random moments, instead of just doing simple counting, who knows?

Anyway, I have to go, just wanted to give my attempt to WILD during the afternoon. It failed, BUT, I feel recharged and ready to go right now.

It's amazing! Call me crazy, but I kept myself aware for an hour, and it was actually fun doing so! Just think random thoughts link, and just don't focus on your body. Heck, I focused on my own body, but I didn't think TOO much on it. I just saw everything as a natural process, and it's okay to lightly think of my body.

I'm excited, I can't wait to stimulate this feeling again when I go to sleep, and after a WBTB as well!

The whole experience is as if a huge battery was placed on my bed, injected into my body, and started to pump me up with energy while I kept myself conscious thinking random thoughts.

I never realized it until you mentioned it but I noticed I am more successful if I allow my mind to wonder while maintaining awareness. If I don't, I'll just lay there awake. I am glad you pointed that out!

Originally Posted by Xanous

I never realized it until you mentioned it but I noticed I am more successful if I allow my mind to wonder while maintaining awareness. If I don't, I'll just lay there awake. I am glad you pointed that out!

No problem!

And I think my problem is that thinking linearly (with the counting) is just one thought, when I'm more used to having sporadic thoughts on purpose, and just keep one constant thought of staying aware that would pop up occasionally.

I always assumed that if I thought sporadically, that I might fall unconscious, but it's even worse (in my case) if I do it linearly. So maybe as long as I have a linear thought that I would think of occasionally rather than it being my main thought, I just might be able to get some results focusing on this instead.

I would read some prominent WILD guides, and one involved counting up or counting down, and it always seemed to be an annoyance for me to place my ambition on one path. But I guess it worked for those who can think linearly without falling unconscious.

If I just imagine applying the mental anchor for staying aware and awake just enough like a sandbox game where I open any thought to be apparent, but still pop in the occasional constant mantra, who knows. Hopefully I'll stay consistent in this realization. When I count up or down, and get side tracked, I always conform to being sporadic, but always had to resist doing that.

I guess that same resistance itself is what kept me awake, not giving in to the temptation....I think I somewhat understand what it means to be in the intermediate of the "aware, but not too aware, awake, but not too awake" mentality that always boggles me.

Give into the temptation, use the constant occasionally, indulge in the temptation again, use the constant, get more into the temptation that you are unlikely to become unconscious from it, use the constant less and less, and repeat, and in theory, if I apply this after a WBTB, body is asleep, mind is awake, and the WILD shouldn't be a problem.

I've seen metaphors and ways to do the temptation, then coming back to awareness thing, it's just that it was so hard to grasp in my own experiences.

I know the concept is a no-brainer, but seeing it with my own eyes (or the back of my eyes I should say) makes more sense now. I guess it's true how you can only learn if you find out how you can derive from a fundamental to conform to your own way of thinking.

Originally Posted by Linkzelda

I know the concept is a no-brainer, but seeing it with my own eyes (or the back of my eyes I should say) makes more sense now. I guess it's true how you can only learn if you find out how you can derive from a fundamental to conform to your own way of thinking.

You're describing mostly what I've been experiencing though I never could but it to words. It's just too difficult. LOL.

Okay, here's another quickie.

So last night, I slept maybe around 1 AM, because I was making a quick study guide for my Organic Chemistry Exam that starts in about an hour or so. Anyway, I go to bed, and instead of focusing on relaxing, I decided to count my breaths up until 20 or so. I got bored, so then I tried doing the random thought thing. I noticed that at least in my perception 5-10 minutes' time, my breathing significantly lowered then when I tried to countdown from 100 and do the "forced" deep breathing.

The random thoughts were REALLY random, from listening a random song in my head appear, then imagining myself playing tennis while it's playing (It was the "Mission" song from Prince of Tennis OST II), started remembering random quotes from some comedians, then thought of random sexual expressions for some odd reason. I just let my mind go nuts, and tried using a constant mantra that I would randomly pop into my mind: "I am aware in sleep."

I don't know....I just made it up and went with it...worked for a while too.

I think in this case, since I felt tired after doing some studying, it was a little harder keeping track of myself, but considering that I don't really do well WILDing without prior sleep in the first place, it's a huge plus for sleeping faster. It's a lot better than spending a whole hour trying to sleep, when I can just sleep within 20 minutes of so (ideally). So that's 40 minutes extra when I do wake up for a WBTB+WILD attempt, and that's a lot of extra time.

I don't recall waking up in the middle of the night, but I did wake up around 6:00 AM or so, naturally, and I had my alarm to wake me up 7:20 AM. I immediately recorded my dreams, so I'm presuming this was the end of my REM cycle, and since I slept around 1 AM, that's about 5 hours of sleep. Since the exam starts at 9:35 AM, I figured I had at least one more hour to try and attempt the WBTB+WILD, but I realized I should be preparing myself for the exam instead and eat a decent meal.

Hopefully tonight, since I only have one class tomorrow, I can try a WBTB+WILD with the planning I did yesterday with the afternoon nap.

Also, to prepare myself to start thinking the distracting thoughts, I refer to my state of being as being "nothing." (if you want to put it spiritually, I guess as an empty vessel that will be fill with thoughts(thought energy)). By filling myself into the "void" that is apparent in the back of my eyelids, I embrace the "nothingness," casually forget that I have a body, and then find myself having sedated or lack of sense of my waking life body.

By deeming myself as "nothing," I let my thoughts come in naturally, no matter how absurd they might be. I guess you can state this in another way as just relieving yourself of a wandering mind before you actually start to wander, just wanted to add my own analogy on it.

EDIT:

Also, the same description I mentioned for the afternoon nap yesterday, I found that I didn't have to worry about the swallow reflex when I kept my mouth closed. I think it could be that I propped my neck to be slanted, so the saliva could go down my throat, my breathing felt like something was pressing on me (the "lead" weight that seems to be apparent in a few guides), and again, those small vibrations of being charged up.

I'm going to calm myself down, because after that moment, I was really excited, so I don't want to get my hopes up, so I'll take this slow.

Also, I planned for a small tune to play every hour on the hour until 7:20 AM, but my laptop did a Windows Update on me, since I disabled it from happening for a few weeks lol. That was annoying, I could've went for 2 hours keeping my mind distracted, and then pulling myself to awareness if I just had those little chimes play in every hour.

Oh well, still have the afternoon around 2:10-3:20 PM for a nap (since I'll obviously be more aware) before I head to class that starts 3:55 PM, and I have the whole night as well. Can't wait to post some results!!

Okay.

I wasn't going to say anything, Linkzelda, because I'm confident that there truly is no "best" way to do any of this stuff -- if you make it to lucidity, then you did the right thing. But I just read your last post and I have a couple of concerns:

[Before I start: If I misunderstood you, and this random-thoughts thing is only for falling asleep at night -- hours before attempting WILD -- then don't even bother reading my post. How you initially fall asleep makes utterly no difference in the end, as long as mental prep is in place. But if your suggestion is specifically about WILD, read on]

First, and foremost, remember that WILD is about maintaining self-awareness, period. Though your plan sounds good on paper, mostly because it is much easier, you must remember that allowing random thoughts to occupy your rime during WILD might be exactly the wrong thing to do, because those random thoughts, by their nature, tend to diminish self-awareness. This is especially true if you allow them to take charge ... A non-lucid dream is nothing more than a series of random thoughts, after all -- do you really want to elevate the condition that defines the place you don't want to be after you fall asleep? It simply does not make sense to step away from self-awareness simply because it helps you fall asleep faster (which of course it would, because it returns you to the natural -- and non-lucid -- course of falling asleep).

Focus is fundamental to lucid dreaming. To abandon it could be detrimental on a couple of levels. First, because negating focus pretty much negates doing a WILD (though DILD's are still possible), but also because elevating random thoughts opens the door to False Lucids, because you are allowing random thoughts to mix unchecked with your existing (and likely strong) expectations and intentions, which is a recipe for a non-lucid dream that has everything you expect from a lucid dream, except the presence of your awareness.

That's the most important bit. Next, I have to mention that thinking about "nothing" actually requires more focus and concentration than thinking about "something." Seeking perfect nothingness in a dream is a goal of sleep yogis (and mine as well), and it takes an enormous amount of discipline and, yes, focus, to remove everything from your mind and perceptions -- simply not trying to do anything won't get you there. Also, if you truly deem yourself as nothing, there are no random thoughts. If you're getting random thoughts, no matter how absurd they are, you are not in a state of nothingness. Indeed, you are more likely in a state of NREM, heading for non-lucid REM, since that's pretty much what you described above.

Finally, I must ask that you take this conversation elsewhere, Linkzelda. Though I respect your opinion, and your efforts, what you are suggesting is simply anathema to what I'm trying to teach here: that focus is fundamental to successful WILD's, and random thoughts are so much noise that should be passed by as quietly as possible, lest they disrupt your self-awareness. Though this method might be good for you, telling people who are struggling with their focus not to worry about it is not helpful at all.

tl;dr: Abandoning focus and allowing random thoughts -- the root of non-lucid dreaming -- to have prominence might make life easier, but it is not helpful to WILD. If you're doing this to fall asleep the night before a WILD dive, then never mind, because it doesn't really matter how you fall asleep at that point (as long as mental prep is intact). And I respectfully ask you to take this conversation elsewhere, as it is anathema to what I am trying to teach.

Apologies in advance if I pissed you off; that was not my intention. I did try to respect your opinion and stay away, but I could not.

No, it's perfectly fine. I guess what I applied should be for naps and if I want to attempt a WILD before having any kind of sleep. But I would presume that if I did sleep, I wouldn't have to be so focused on relaxing, and just focus on counting more, since my mind is already in the half-awake, half-asleep state. So I guess what I was doing during the afternoon and before I slept at night was to get into the meditative and relaxed state to sleep faster.

I just thought that by letting go with the random thoughts, but pulling myself back into self-awareness would be ideal, since I'm engaging in a mental activity through the random thoughts and images.

But I understand, thank you for clearing up the misconception I had, and thank you for taking the time to type that up Sageous. And no worries, I won't be angry, you're the teacher, I respect all insight you give to me and others, you're just here to make sure that I'm following the right direction, and I couldn't be more grateful.

I guess I misunderstood some things myself. What I was thinking was more like maintaining a sense of balance. Not too much one way or the other and maybe I was wrong. Sorry if I added to the confusion.

^^ No worries. As long as I'm here, and feeling preachy:

Remember that WILD, and lucid dreaming in general, is literally a quest for imbalance. After all, you're trying to defy the balanced schedule of nature by being wakefully self-aware in dreams and, with WILD, getting there by doing the totally unbalanced act of staying awake while you're also falling asleep. And don't even get me started on advanced LD'ing being sourced in a decidedly unnatural acceptance of the non-duality of dreams and your place in them.

Balance, naturally speaking, is equal to falling asleep normally and having normal dreams, with little or no memory of those dreams upon waking... something to avoid in these parts, maybe?

... I doubt many will agree with me on that, but it is at least something to think about.

Had two LDs this morning with WILD. I can only remember one, but it's like there's a marker in my brain saying "You had two." Flew for the first time without falling, too. That's what bugs me the most, I actually seem to have a bit of talent when it comes to what to do when actually in the dream, but that's useless if I can't get to that point.
I think what I need to do is stick with the one position (on my side) and time (4-5 hours after sleeping) and experiment with the length of the mantra I use to keep myself awake. Pretty sure I had these two this morning by lengthening it a little and making it a little more complicated by adding the name of somebody I want to meet in the dreamworld to the end of each loop, eg. "1, I'm dreaming, [name]... " etc.
Any suggestions to things I could add to the mantra to keep myself concentrating? The main problem seems to be falling asleep a few minutes too early.