Thread: What happened? Post Your WILD Attempts, Good or Bad, Here

Originally Posted by Sageous

Interesting stuff, Steph, thanks for sharing!

Sadly, I got nothin' -- other than patience and practice, of course!

This is an illusion, Sageous - you do have given me a valuable insight here!

Originally Posted by Sageous

I guess all I could add to that is to remember, especially during times when you feel yourself getting emotionally or physically overwhelmed, that these things that are happening are not real. Remember that for the physical sensations as well, because, even though they might be pretty impressive, they are, in the big picture, insignificant. You will still get the rush that you felt, that blissful feeling (that is, happily, unavoidable), but you will know that it is not real or having a major effect on you.

In knowing that, in remembering that, all these things are products of your mind, are essentially harmless distractions, and that much of it would have been going on anyway had you not noticed through your awareness, you will find that your mind is much more calm, controllable. With this attitude in tow, it will be much easier to work through the really strange and exciting stuff.

So be patient, practice a lot, and remember. You know, I think that, in the end, is the only tutorial any of us need!

I believe I understand - not real on a deeper basis - as in not significant, while I do consider some LD-experiences as at least personally significant.
So my mental background evaluation might take away that, and these rushes become passively bearable, without any, esp. physical, reaction at all - and then you transgress them into nREM lucidity?
This comes so abrupt and has such a positive surge towards it in it's following.
So take note, it is only artificial - you did not have any personally "revelationary experience" whatsoever - it is negligible.
Maybe this expectation helps - I can very well imagine it - so this was definitively not "nothing"!!
Thank you - do away with your over-modesty!


What happens to the pictures - these vivid scenes, that never get really big, but are there and then gone?
Is it not so that nREM has no scenic optics?
Do you have those as well - and do they go away like supposedly HI does - as I only theoretically know?
But what I had, exactly once, in the HI department and then waking up, was something different, more like a "vision" than a scenery.

Hm, hm - I really need much more experience to go about analysing!

Originally Posted by StephL

I believe I understand - not real on a deeper basis - as in not significant, while I do consider some LD-experiences as at least personally significant.

Agreed; I should've been clearer about that, but I think you got it.

So my mental background evaluation might take away that, and these rushes become passively bearable, without any, esp. physical, reaction at all - and then you transgress them into nREM lucidity?

Yes... and, ultimately, REM lucidity as well!

What happens to the pictures - these vivid scenes, that never get really big, but are there and then gone? Is it not so that nREM has no scenic optics? Do you have those as well - and do they go away like supposedly HI does - as I only theoretically know? But what I had, exactly once, in the HI department and then waking up, was something different, more like a "vision" than a scenery.

No. I believe we are always dreaming during sleep, and NREM dreams just have a different character. They too can have their version of "vivid" -- just as HI and "between state" dreamlets can be pretty vivid as well. You brain is always at work producing something, if sometimes only briefly. So pictures come and go, sometimes quite ephemerally... and sometimes it is best to just let them go, as their exit might be harbinger to new dreams. And yes, if it is in you to attach meaning to these things, allow that -- who knows? There may be real meaning in the dim delta shadows, in HI, or in those dreamlets. It is all, after all, a reflection of you, right?

Hey Ya'll, (That's in my Southern Ireland accent!)

After a few weeks of no luck with WILD attempts, I decided to regroup and read all I could find on state of mind and prep stuff. It payed off last night.

I usually don't attempt WILDs in a first REM cycle, but it just felt right on this night, so I went for it immediately upon going to bed.

I used the "seeded visualization" technique to successfully transition into a dream scene where I'm standing on the corner of a neighborhood street. It couldn't possibly have looked or felt more real.

I'm with two DCs. One of the DCs looks at me questioningly. I tell him; "Nice try, but this is a dream." There's a flashing of color in the sky, and the DCs face sparkles a bright white with electricity. At the same time I feel an intense rush, like a charge of energy going through my body. I go on my way, and fool around with some DCs at a nearby playground, but I quickly run out of REM.

One thing I've noticed, is that for me, short LDs in an early REM period tend to be more stable than longer LDs in later REM cycles.

I think I'm actually beginning to understand Sageous's point about how technique is secondary to state of mind.

My WILD goal now is to learn how to bring about the optimum state of mind on demand.

Niall

Nicely done, Nailler!

Originally Posted by Nailler

One thing I've noticed, is that for me, short LDs in an early REM period tend to be more stable than longer LDs in later REM cycles.

I've found this to be true as well. I think it has to do with your body being "more asleep," during the earlier stages of sleep, and, naturally, a tendency toward wakefulness (and thus less dream stability) in later stages of sleep. Still, those longer, more closely-spaced REM periods late in the sleep cycle might still be worth the stability trade-off.

I think I'm actually beginning to understand Sageous's point about how technique is secondary to state of mind.

Cool!

My WILD goal now is to learn how to bring about the optimum state of mind on demand.

Excellent goal, and it sounds like you're already well on your way... let us know if you make any insights!

Wow - congratulation Nailler!!
What do you mean by seeded visualization?
How did you go about it? Mantra, SSILD, something other?
Recollecting and state of mind/mental prep - definitively - I started meditating a bit and am surprised how good it does me.

Originally Posted by StephL

Wow - congratulation Nailler!!
What do you mean by seeded visualization?

When I'm close to falling asleep, I create a brief visual... a person, place, or thing in the blackness or patterns I'm seeing behind closed eyes. Then I immediately leave it alone. After a while, these visual seeds take root and begin to grow and expand on their own. It's not long before one expands into a full dream scene with me in it.

How did you go about it? Mantra, SSILD, something other?

For prep, and I began doing this a couple times a day, I cause myself to become acutely aware of my present time reality. This is as simple as noticing the fine details in my sense perception the shades of color, any patterns, background sounds etc. This isn't anything original with me. In fact it's based upon the first exercise in Stephen LaBerge's book.

But I go beyond La Berge on this... and I hesitate to go into detail as the idea might be upsetting to some, whereas discovering it on ones own is quite a revelation. Has to do with the nature of awareness, perception, and reality.

As for the actual dive, I keep it pretty simple and just stay awake while watching my body fall asleep. The only thing added is that at any point where if I feel myself falling asleep, I just barely crack my eyes open for a second or two. I think if I could catch that point every time and stay just on the edge of sleep, I would be able to maintain self-awareness and WILD almost at will.

The eye crack thing and the seeded dream thing are both from Thomas Yuschak's book "Advanced Lucid Dreaming." The downside of the book, at least in my opinion, is that the author is heavily into "supplements" some of which although legal, are really just chemicals/drugs, not "supplements." My thought is that in the long run, inducing lucidity through artificial means would lesson ones chances of learning how to achieve maximum lucidity naturally. Plus, there's no telling what the long term effects of messing with brain chemistry might be.

Recollecting and state of mind/mental prep - definitively - I started meditating a bit and am surprised how good it does me.

I've read quite a bit on the subjects of WILD and DILD in the past few months. In my opinion, Sageous nails the most important success/failure factor in his first tutorial, and I trust he won't mind me quoting him here...

Excerpt From: http://www.dreamviews.com/wild/13181...prep-part.html

Self-Awareness

The root of WILD is that you are able to maintain waking awareness while your physical body drops into sleep mode around you. Though the concept is simple, and seems to make sense, the act of doing it can be very difficult. This is because your entire nature is geared toward abandoning waking consciousness in the name of sleep. A powerful tool for confounding nature and staying awake while falling asleep is self-awareness.

Self-awareness is nothing more than knowing that you exist, that your existence effects everything and everyone around you, and is effected by everything and everyone around you. Seems like a no-brainer, I know, but most people -- hell, almost all people -- don't so much as consider this concept, much less make it a part of their daily life. Self-awareness rarely happens in waking life because it is much easier to wander through existence unaware of your place in it (as long as there’s food, friends, and video games, who cares, right? Right.). Yet if you were to master self-awareness, WILD’ing would be easy; literally second nature. It’s that simple. DILD and MILD, for that matter, would be easy as well. So would things like getting along with your loved ones, and coping with the challenges of waking life. That is the power of self-awareness.

I also find it interesting to notice the degree of self-awareness, or the lack thereof, in others.

I had a really cool WILD dive today. The sensation of the descent was completely new, and I replicated it in DEILD. Oh, and Sageous - I'm sorry I thought badly of you. I didn't mean it, I was just trying stuff out.

Originally Posted by Sibyline's dream journal

I began to count myself back into the dream, struggling a bit against the feeling of suffocating, but aware enough to know that I was in no danger. I began to slide downward, more and more rapidly, my hair flowing behind me as if I was on a water slide. I tried to look through my eyelids but saw nothing but darkness. I remembered Sageous saying that once you're diving, you're already in the dream, so I decided to open my eyes. I was awake. Giving Sageous a mental slap, I lay still and closed my eyes, then realized that one of my eyes wasn't quite closed. I blinked it shut with some difficulty because the position of one of my hands was drawing it slightly open, and I didn't want to move my hand. I began to count again, suddenly sinking into my bed, then sliding again as before.

Sliding through the void, nothing was forming around me. I knew I wanted to do three of the TOTM, and I knew which ones, but I needed scenery, or at least a DC. Still nothing was happening, so I pictured a person I wanted to summon. To my astonishment, I stopped sliding and he began to form in front of my eyes. I have never been able to do this before, but there he was, forming like a CGI cartoon character, body part by body part. I marvelled at my creation, but then stupidly began to critique my work. Why must I always do this!?! I wanted to see him in the flesh, rather than this animated figure, but as his human figure began to take form, the dream disintegrated.

Whole dream:
Afternoon DILD-DEILD chain: creating a 3D cartoon character from scratch - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I loved that sliding sensation! Usually I just sink into my bed, but this was so exhilarating.

Last two WILD attempts went nowhere. Just when it seems I'm getting the hang of it, it becomes difficult again. What worked to get me back in the groove last time I stalled, was to go back to working on prep and state of mind stuff, so I'm going to do that again.

Congratulation Sibyline!!

Originally Posted by Nailler

But I go beyond La Berge on this... and I hesitate to go into detail as the idea might be upsetting to some, whereas discovering it on ones own is quite a revelation. Has to do with the nature of awareness, perception, and reality.

Thank you for your detailed answer!
But you got me curious - since I have no idea of which sort of upset you might talk - if you don't want to share it here - but wouldn't mind pming me it shortly - I would be very thankful!
But of course no problem, if you don't wish to do that!
Happy WILDing Nailler!

Originally Posted by StephL

But you got me curious - since I have no idea of which sort of upset you might talk - if you don't want to share it here

Noooooo! Don't be so mysterious! I want to be upset. Spill the beans, Nailler!

A WEIRD ONE

Last night after a WBTB, WILD attempt I found myself in what I thought was a vivid dream. In the dream, I was looking for proof that I was dreaming. I ran into a number of dream signs, and became convinced I was in a dream, rather than in a waking state. I announced to myself, "this is a dream" and nothing happened. This struck me as really odd because usually at that point I become lucid.

After waking up, I puzzled over why I didn't become lucid. And then it hit me like a ton of bricks... I was already at least partially lucid!

I didn't even try to exercise any control in the dream, because I didn't believe I could. Yet I was in fact exercising a degree of control in that I was actively searching for dream signs. The lesson is that when I'm aware enough in a dream to be looking for dream signs, I'm already at least semi-lucid, and I should just get on with it.

On a more basic level, the lesson is again that our dreams are largely a product of our expectations. When we go to sleep intending and expecting to spot dream signs, that's what we'll dream about. On the other hand if we fully expect to find ourselves cooking pancakes in outer space...

The question is, how do we turn on enough "critical function" to take advantage of such lessons while asleep?

Niall

PS to Sibyline and Stephl --- I'll clear up the mystery once I'm a little more certain what I have to say isn't B.S.

I've had that happen before. It's a weird one because you aren't actually lucid, you are just running through a routine in which the actor in the dream believes he/she is lucid.

In dreams we often do strange things that we wouldn't do if we were more self-aware. We can't really claim responsibility for our actions because the "self" which is active during waking life is nowhere to be found. The lights are on but nobody's home.

Originally Posted by bluremi

The lights are on but nobody's home.

I've had the nobody's home thing too, but this one was a little different. For me it's far easier to remember lucid dreams than it is non-lucid ones. And this one, I still remember start to finish hours later, without remembering a memory of a dream... what I remembered when I first woke up.

I guess the very act of looking for dream signs would be a dream sign. In any case, this one is still hard for me to think with.

Niall

Hi everyone. I just attempted a WILD a few minutes ago, but I failed. I always get stuck at the same spot. I know SP is different for everyone, but this time for me, I lay down to nap as I usually do for a WILD attempt. I lay still and eventually drift off to a dirt road that I'm walking on. Out of nowhere, I realize it's a dream (this never happens to me, which is why I tend to WILD more) and it causes me to wake up. As soon as I wake up, I remain perfectly still as I become aware of the vibrations and stuff. I hear someone's voice laugh, then it trails off and echoes. Here's where I get stuck.

What do I do here? The vibrations got really intense, so I tried the "roll out of bed" thing, but it didn't work. I opened my eyes, did a RC, and I'm awake. This was my first experience with the Roll-Out method, so I don't know if I'm doing it correctly or not.

Thanks in advance!
--Reamous

^^ I suggest that you take the time to look through the class to which this thread is attached, Reamous. You will find that there is much more to WILD than just lying still, and you will also find that "SP" and those vibrations are just so much noise that you would do well to ignore (paying attention to that noise could be the reason you get stuck).

Also, with the proper mental prep (and practice), you should eventually learn to not wake up when you find yourself on that dirt road. Check out the course; it might be worth your while!

Ok, thanks for the info! I've been scouring the web for exactly what to do at that point, I guess I just forgot to thoroughly check this site as well.

^^ I hope you do; I have a feeling you will not be disappointed! However, if after going through the class you still have no answer to getting stuck, then feel free to ask again here or on the class's Q&A thread, and I'll try to come up with something.

Good luck!

Last couple of WILD attempts resulted in only a good night's sleep. I don't know why.

Think I'll go back to DEILD for a while.

^^ Sometimes change is good. It won't be much of a change though, since DEILD is just another form for WILD... if you're DEILDing, you're WILDing!

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ Sometimes change is good. It won't be much of a change though, since DEILD is just another form for WILD... if you're DEILDing, you're WILDing!

But DEILDing is a much more consistent technique for me. Maybe because the internal alarm clock thing works so well for me?

Originally Posted by Nailler

Last couple of WILD attempts resulted in only a good night's sleep. I don't know why.

Think I'll go back to DEILD for a while.

Lucky you, they end up in losing hours of sleep for me. Like this morning . How is it possible to get so close to the edge of sleep, and yet not fall asleep? I was there, I could *feel* it right there.....but no sleep. There was a little something somewhere I just couldn't find in order to let go of it.

Originally Posted by Nailler

But DEILDing is a much more consistent technique for me. Maybe because the internal alarm clock thing works so well for me?

Maybe... or maybe DEILD is just the better form of WILD for you. It has tended to be my dive of choice over the years, simply because my lack of patience and focus necessary for WILD makes it a tedious task for me. Also, I suppose I very often refuse to let go of the dream from which I'm currently waking, so DEILD has become a timely tool for me. Oh, and it is so much easier for me to get back to sleep right away in DEILD than it is for me to get to sleep later with WILD.

It could just be that your clock is set for DEILD, or something else altogether. But don't fret about it working better for you, because in the end you are still getting lucid, regardless of how you got there!

Originally Posted by FryingMan

Lucky you, they end up in losing hours of sleep for me. Like this morning . How is it possible to get so close to the edge of sleep, and yet not fall asleep? I was there, I could *feel* it right there.....but no sleep. There was a little something somewhere I just couldn't find in order to let go of it.

I thought you had licked, or at least tempered, the sleeping problem, Fryingman! Sorry to hear it's still nagging you. I would have thought that DEILD would work for you, because, since you are still mostly asleep when doing one, you can sidestep the issues that accompany fully waking up for WILD. Perhaps you are waiting too long to try to reenter the dream state? A way to avoid this is by learning to recognize when you are starting to wake up, and actually do your DEILD routine while you are still asleep and dreaming. That way you can be occupied when your body briefly wakes up, and won't put too much energy into realizing you are awake (which is just more fuel for your reticular system).

As a fellow dreamer who has a body that refuses to fall asleep when I want it to, I can attest that DEILD is the best way to WILD with that condition in mind. You might consider giving it a couple more tries...

^^ Wait, what? Ah crap browser ate my response.

Summary: Yes to-sleep is mostly under my control now as long as I have reasonably good conditions (e.g., noise doesn't penetrate earplugs too much, no motion in the bed), and I empty my mind. But that's for non-WILDs only.

For WILD, which requires the anchor, I usually can make progress towards the transition now with e.g., a mantra, but it can still take a while. 1.5 hours encompasses several attempts usually. Timing maybe wasn't perfect and I didn't start with enough drowsiness perhaps in recent attempts. Wait, no, one recent attempt I started VERY sleepy, and I hovered in very very deep near sleep for a loooong time, poking up against the transition a few times, and always falling back awake.

And I think my lucid "fake out" on galantamine 1.5 weeks ago may in fact have been a WILD where I lost lucidity as soon as the dream stopped forming and began. I was even cheering it on: "hey, there's an image, that's it, solidify, focus, good, here we go...." and then I lost it and started thinking stupid non-lucid thoughts and got caught up in the action.

BTW, I'm totally sold on DEILDs. Had one and loved it. But timing and recognition also must coincide for DEILDs, and I'm mostly now by preference not setting intention to notice middle of the night wakings, and at my morning wakings I'm reaching for recall. DEILDs will play a large part in my LD arsenal eventually, that I know now.

I'm wondering what the transition experience is like though in a full WILD. Is it just like a DEILD? Because for me, even for that 1 WILD I counted way back 4-5 months ago, there is always a discontinuity between the point where there is no dream image, and when there is a dream image forming. It's like the awareness that you kept with you during the dive was suppressed, if briefly, during the transition, and there was just barely enough of it still hanging around to come back while the dream is starting, sort of like waking up, or noticing something when just before you were noticing nothing....is it like that for you, too, Sageous? Or does it feel 100% continuous awareness with no discontinuity?

FryingMan:

First, I'm going to tell you a little secret...don't tell anyone ... my WILD transitions on average last about an hour from wake to dream. I've had many a lucid dream, via WILD, after lying there for up to 2 hours. Sometimes I think sleep hates me. But ultimately it must come, and I've learned to be patient.

I think that needed to be said. Now a few other thoughts:

Originally Posted by FryingMan

And I think my lucid "fake out" on galantamine 1.5 weeks ago may in fact have been a WILD where I lost lucidity as soon as the dream stopped forming and began. I was even cheering it on: "hey, there's an image, that's it, solidify, focus, good, here we go...." and then I lost it and started thinking stupid non-lucid thoughts and got caught up in the action.

Yeah, you have to be mindful of that Gallantamine fake-out. Gallantamine can be quite useful, but it has a nasty habit of just making your NLD so interesting you forget all about being lucid!

BTW, I'm totally sold on DEILDs. Had one and loved it. But timing and recognition also must coincide for DEILDs, and I'm mostly now by preference not setting intention to notice middle of the night wakings, and at my morning wakings I'm reaching for recall. DEILDs will play a large part in my LD arsenal eventually, that I know now.

That's a good plan. But let me tell you another secret: I never set intention for DEILD's; they are almost invariably done as I am waking from a NLD or DILD, and no real plan was laid the night before to DEILD. DEILD's are very much a "here & now" event for me, and likely could be for you. They're sort of a lucid backstop for an aware mind to "catch" lucidity after WILD's fail or DILD's fade. I hope this doesn't run too counter to the DEILD session of my class, but that is the way they are for me... for you they could be different, but I have a feeling that you will find them in your lucid toolbox eventually.

I'm wondering what the transition experience is like though in a full WILD. Is it just like a DEILD? Because for me, even for that 1 WILD I counted way back 4-5 months ago, there is always a discontinuity between the point where there is no dream image, and when there is a dream image forming. It's like the awareness that you kept with you during the dive was suppressed, if briefly, during the transition, and there was just barely enough of it still hanging around to come back while the dream is starting, sort of like waking up, or noticing something when just before you were noticing nothing....is it like that for you, too, Sageous? Or does it feel 100% continuous awareness with no discontinuity?

The transition experience during a "classic" WILD is much different than a DEILD. WILD requires you to witness the complete process your body and brain undergoes as it moves from wake to sleep, while DEILD sidesteps all that, thanks to the fact that you are virtually asleep when you begin one, and return immediately to sleep to complete one -- no noise or sleeplessness to endure.

Unfortunately, a "proper" WILD (or DEILD, for that matter) is by definition a state of 100% continuous awareness, with no discontinuity. I have a feeling, though, that "improper" WILD's outnumber proper WILD's substantially in the general LD'ing population. That impropriety -- that oh-so brief suppression of awareness -- is certainly not a bad thing if it happens and you still become lucid; I suppose a dream referee would call it a DILD, but you got there, so who cares? Also, you got there by doing WILD-related exercises, so it still was sort of a WILD, right? The trouble with that brief suppression, though, is that it can just as easily lead to a NLD (often about LD'ing, in my case anyway) that completely negates your WILD efforts. So it is best to try to maintain that awareness throughout the dive, just to ensure that you make it a LD.