Thread: Senses Initiated Lucid Dream (SSILD)

Originally Posted by rynkrt3

From what I've been reading, the SSILD mainly produces FA's. Is there a good way to catch these?

Do RCs when you wake up, every time you wake up. This way if you "wake up" but you're still dreaming, you will do a RC.

Oh okay - so OBE's are basically just like LD's?

Oh and, we can use this tech for DEILDs? I would have had one if I didn't break out of SP and enter an FA.

Sorry for all the questions >.<..

Originally Posted by Sydney

Oh okay - so OBE's are basically just like LD's?

I always liked this diagram from Michael Raduga's SOBT, it basically lumps all of these similar experiences into one category, Phase, which the OP mentions:
The Phase

Cool, pretty original for a change

I'll try this technique for a while. Sounds pretty good.

Can I get some clarification for the difference between OBE and LD?

Did a WBTB last night with this.

I did maybe 4-5 cycles then fell asleep really quick.

No results. I'll try it again tonight.

Originally Posted by rynkrt3

Did a WBTB last night with this.

I did maybe 4-5 cycles then fell asleep really quick.

No results. I'll try it again tonight.

If that's the case, you may want to be a bit more aggressive while doing the steps -- look more carefully behind your eyelids, search for patterns, colors, etc. Listen to sound and try to adjust the volume mentally; Imagine some kinetic sensations... be careful though, when you do this you may end up focusing too much which causes you to lose sleep. You need to experiment to find what's best for you

Originally Posted by enak101

I'll try this technique for a while. Sounds pretty good.

Can I get some clarification for the difference between OBE and LD?

OBE, in a broad sense, describes the experience during which you seem to rise from your physical body and move about in a non-physical form. There are many kinds of OBE though, and some people tend to recognize only a subset of these as the "genuine" OBE. For example, some disregard "dreams of OBE" as real OBE. This usually happens in combination with false awakenings -- you have an FA, then you perform some WILD technique within it. Of course you will right away experience vibrations, HIs, and etc., and you then exit your body. You believe you are having an OBE, but it's actually an OBE within a dream! You are lunching yourself from a platform of fake realities, and as a result when you do wake up the whole experience will feel unreal. In this case, it is not much different from a LD.

Let's look at another example. You experience SP while being fully awake, and then you manage to make the exit. This, when it happens, will feel like genuine "soul leaving the body". You may even see your physical body lying on the bed. However, no matter how awake you are, the moment you make the exit, you step into a different reality. It is very common for people to rise from a different location such as their old houses, school dormitories, or a room that's pieced together from the various places where they previous lived at. Just like in a dream, the moment you step into this non-physical world your IQ is reduced by half, and thus you won't be able to recognize the anomalies. You then go on with your adventure but when you wake up you will hardly remember much detail... again, just like a lucid dream. Would you call this OBE or WILD? There is hardly any real distinction.

Some people like to describe OBE with these attributes: environment almost identical with reality; sharp mind, clear as day-time and 100% functional; solid objects that are hard if not impossible to manipulate; no memory loss upon returning to physical body, etc. In other word, they are describing "soul travel in reality or near-reality". These kinds of experiences, IMO, are extremely rare and most people who report them are probably bluffing, at least to some degree. I personally have had a few thousand OBEs, yet very few of them fit all the above descriptions (only exception being when I used special techniques, but that's a whole different matter). In our forum, we have collected many thousands of OBE cases, and again not a single one fit all the descriptions, minus a few which are quite obviously from less credible sources.

I know technically there are differences between some special-case OBEs and LD. For example, some OBEs can occur during NREM. However, the majority of OBEs are not much different from LDs. You can essentially treat them as LDs which uses your bed as the starting point. Let me make it clear -- what I'm saying here is based on my own experiences and researches. They are my personal opinions only.

Yeah, I'm trying this today.

Originally Posted by CosmicIron

Just like in a dream, the moment you step into this non-physical world your IQ is reduced by half, and thus you won't be able to recognize the anomalies.

Just curious... but, how did you get to this conclusion? I mean, you can't do IQ tests in LDs/OBEs. Besides, even an IQ of 50 would make one understand the obvious anomalies that occur during these stages. Isn't it your logic center of the brain which shuts down during sleep that makes you unable to understand things are weird?

Originally Posted by CosmicIron

Let me clarify, SSILD does not require you to wake up and lay completely still. In fact if you do that you change the technique to something else and result may vary.

This is an added bonus that one doesn't need to remain still upon awakening.

Originally Posted by CosmicIron

SSILD works best when combined with WBTB after 4-6 hours of quality sleep.

Just to clarify, do the 4 or 5 cycles of steps 2a, 2b and 2c need to be performed immediately upon awakening? Or can one get up after 6 hours; visit the bathroom; go back to bed and then do the cycles of steps 2a, 2b, 2c? Even though your method has its own merits and does vary from Mr. Raduga's methods, he does say that for his method not to use an alarm clock to generate an awakening. As this point isn't included in your guide I am assuming that some of your students probably have and I was wondering if you have noticed the effect of this on the experimental results on the other forum?

Originally Posted by CosmicIron

Originally Posted by mcwillis

When you practice the instructions you may enter a lucid dream or an OBE before going back to sleep or you may enter a lucid dream or OBE when you have gone back to sleep. It is a WILD though many would argue that this is a DEILD method, another form of WILD. As CosmicIron says repeat the procedure 4 or 5 times.

If one practices each of the 3 steps (see, listen, and feel) with aggression -- intending to produce immediate sensations, then it becomes a WILD method. I usually discourage new users from doing this as it can cause unexpected side effects and sometimes make the technique less useful. However, more experienced users know how to adjust the level of aggression to suit their conditions, and will provide excellent results.

Another reason for my questions above as I am finding it hard to truly understand your instrctions. Sorry if I gave incorrect advice to another member due to my misunderstanding of your method.

Originally Posted by CosmicIron

Originally Posted by mcwillis

Mr. Raduga says that this is a common misconception that people have that being too awake is going to reduce ones chances. From years of seminar research and results the level of 'wakefulness' that one has is irrelevant to a successful phase entrance.

IMO, while wakefulness is irrelevant, successful phase entrance does require the user to be able to shift from being fully awake to a state that boarder between wakefulness and sleep. In order to do so, one needs to either quickly fall asleep, or focus on deepening the state through more active relaxation and hypnosis methods. While this is not impossible to do, it is definitely difficult for new users, and that's the very reason Mr. Raduga discourages using Direct Method as the primary mean to achieve phase entrance. SSILD was designed with beginners in mind. One can definitely use the technique ACTIVELY, and given enough repetition one can enter a trance from being fully awake (after all, it is very similar to Betty Ericson's self-hypnosis). However, that requires determination and skill often lacked by beginners.

Are you saying that when one reaches the fourth or fifth cycle of steps 2a, 2b and 2c it is very important that one is on the verge of falling asleep as described in step 3. I am asking these questions because with my experience of success with Mr. Raduga's methods attention to detail is very important to a successful outcome.

Originally Posted by Sydney

Oh my gosh. This technique is amazing!
So last night, I woke up after 5 hours of sleep, went to the restroom, then got back in bed. I did about, 5 cycles (If I remember correctly.) Then I got comfortable and did one cycle for some reason. After a few minutes I turned over once more (now on my stomach) and fell asleep.

I woke up.. and my body was completely paralyzed! I could not move. I think I could open my eyes, but I didn't want to! I got really scared. I heard these weird wind sounds in my ears or something, and my body just felt heavy and numb (it was a bit hazy at this part, can't remember much). I just decided, "What the heck, I'm getting out of this!" (I've done this before, and I ended up in a FA) So I tried wriggling my head, then my arms, then my fingers, and finally "broke" out of SP. I lay motionless , still lying on my stomach in my bed. Then I thought to myself, "Crap. I shouldn't have done that." But then I RCed out of reflex, and what do you know, I was in an FA! I got really excited. Still laying on my stomach, I used my arms and "pushed" me out of bed. It was extremely hard to do this. It was like pushing a rusted lever or something (kind of like I was "stuck" to the bed). Then I saw it was dark in my room so I got scared once more (I'm always afraid of seeing scary things in my dreams, like weird shadows and such).

So eventually after my adventure filled lucid dream (it was pretty vivid at the start, then I kind of lost lucidity at the end), I woke up. I remember going throughout the morning, kind of sad that I didn't have any more time to use the technique in the night, because of school. Then it faded. I woke up in my bed.

I guess I missed my opportunity for another lucid dream. Tricky tricky false awakenings

I looked at my clock and, all of that happened in less than 2 hours! How awesome is that!
Definetly trying this again tonight!

Oh yeah, and what could that be classified as? DEILD? FA? Not sure. (it's for putting it in my sig )

(Sorry for the long post...)

Interesting result

Originally Posted by Fuzzman

Cool technique I think I'll try it tomorrow during a WBTB. One question though, why is it SSILD, shouldn't it just be SILD? or is there already a technique called SILD that I don't know about?


EDIT: nevermind I did a search and found SILD (song initiated) so I guess that's why you did the double S's

And there is http://www.dreamviews.com/f49/sild-s...-dream-127336/

Originally Posted by Chetan

Quote from Mr Radugas book "A practical Guide book" Pg No 16

"Dream consciousness is also considered to be a phase
experience. If you suddenly realize that you're dreaming while
asleep, then that's already the phase. You should therefore
proceed to implement your plan of action and stabilize the
state. If dream consciousness does arise, it would be a side
effect of doing technique cycles upon awakenings. This side
effect is quite common - always be ready for"

This is what SILD is about.

I would tend to disagree with this. As you say, when one starts to have regular success at practicing 'Indirect Techniques' one begins to have more DILD's as a result. But it seemss as though CosmicIron's method generates DILD's a lot more quickly. I may be wrong about this and is just my opinion.

---

And to finish up I would like to add that CosmicIron's method is a mixture of Michael Raduga's 'Indirect' and 'Direct' techniques with one major difference. In either of Raduga's methods one is attempting to have a LD or OBE from a waking state whereas CosmicIron's technique is setting up the conditions to have a phase experience at a later point in time when practice of his method has elapsed. From reading this thread a passive practice will lead to a lucid dream and an aggressive practice will lead to either a WILD or perhaps DILD whilst asleep. Please correct me if I am wrong CosmicIron

Originally Posted by SarcasticIndeed

Just curious... but, how did you get to this conclusion? I mean, you can't do IQ tests in LDs/OBEs. Besides, even an IQ of 50 would make one understand the obvious anomalies that occur during these stages. Isn't it your logic center of the brain which shuts down during sleep that makes you unable to understand things are weird?

My bad... that was really just intended as an expression, not a precise statement. I was describing the phenomenon which upon entering an OBE, one loses a lot of her reasoning, logic, analytical, and other abilities.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

Just to clarify, do the 4 or 5 cycles of steps 2a, 2b and 2c need to be performed immediately upon awakening? Or can one get up after 6 hours; visit the bathroom; go back to bed and then do the cycles of steps 2a, 2b, 2c? Even though your method has its own merits and does vary from Mr. Raduga's methods, he does say that for his method not to use an alarm clock to generate an awakening. As this point isn't included in your guide I am assuming that some of your students probably have and I was wondering if you have noticed the effect of this on the experimental results on the other forum?

No mcwillis, there is no need for them to be performed immediately. What you described -- getting after 6 hours etc is the optimal way prepare for doing SSILD. Many students do use alarm clocks and in fact I also urge them to do so in the begining. By understanding how sleep cycles work and being able to monitor and calculate one's own unique sleep pattern will likely increase success.

Are you saying that when one reaches the fourth or fifth cycle of steps 2a, 2b and 2c it is very important that one is on the verge of falling asleep as described in step 3. I am asking these questions because with my experience of success with Mr. Raduga's methods attention to detail is very important to a successful outcome.

Yes that's correct. If fact it may work even better if you completely skip step 3 and fall asleep automatically after performing the cyclings. In Betty Ericson's self-hypnosis method you are supposed to enter a trance while performing the technique, then automatically exit from it after certain ellapsed time which were determined prior to entering the trance. I suspect SSILD has a lot in common with that.

And to finish up I would like to add that CosmicIron's method is a mixture of Michael Raduga's 'Indirect' and 'Direct' techniques with one major difference. In either of Raduga's methods one is attempting to have a LD or OBE from a waking state whereas CosmicIron's technique is setting up the conditions to have a phase experience at a later point in time when practice of his method has elapsed.

Thank you. Your observation is correct and precise.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

I would tend to disagree with this. As you say, when one starts to have regular success at practicing 'Indirect Techniques' one begins to have more DILD's as a result. But it seemss as though CosmicIron's method generates DILD's a lot more quickly. I may be wrong about this and is just my opinion.

Michael Raduga says that after practising cycles of indirect techniques regularly, every 3rd phase experience occurs through dream conciousness.

So in order to fall asleep while doing the cycles, we just do them really lazily?
Because, 5 or so cycles is about 6 - 8 minutes for me, and it takes me longer to fall asleep in general.
Should we just keep doing the cycles until we fall asleep? Or will that keep us awake?

Oh and by the way, no results last night. I think it was because I couldn't sleep.. my air conditioner was broken lol.

Seem's like a very simple technique, and that's why I like it!

Will try this tonight and post my results.

Originally Posted by CosmicIron

My bad... that was really just intended as an expression, not a precise statement. I was describing the phenomenon which upon entering an OBE, one loses a lot of her reasoning, logic, analytical, and other abilities.

Ah, okay. I was just curious Besides, I tried this today but there was a lot of noise around, so I couldn't. Perhaps the light was too strong as well. Gonna try this today, I guess.

Originally Posted by Sydney

So in order to fall asleep while doing the cycles, we just do them really lazily?
Because, 5 or so cycles is about 6 - 8 minutes for me, and it takes me longer to fall asleep in general.
Should we just keep doing the cycles until we fall asleep? Or will that keep us awake?

Oh and by the way, no results last night. I think it was because I couldn't sleep.. my air conditioner was broken lol.

Sometimes during the cycling your mind begins to wander, and it may take a while before you realize it and resume the exercise. When this happens you know you are doing it correctly. If you can continue doing it in this manner, then you can indeed keep performing the technique until you fall asleep.

Originally Posted by SarcasticIndeed

Ah, okay. I was just curious Besides, I tried this today but there was a lot of noise around, so I couldn't. Perhaps the light was too strong as well. Gonna try this today, I guess.

Quiet and dark environment is essential!

Alright then I'll try and see if I can fall asleep whilst doing the cycles tonight.

Originally Posted by CosmicIron

Quiet and dark environment is essential!

Yeah, I know

Originally Posted by Chetan

Michael Raduga says that after practising cycles of indirect techniques regularly, every 3rd phase experience occurs through dream conciousness.

I am aware of this but as I tried to point out to you CosmicIron's method could bring LD's from the outset rather than as a side effect of having OBE's.

Tried this 2 nights ago at a WTBT. Got my first lucid! Tried yesterday also and had a super vivid dream but not lucid. Seems very promising

Originally Posted by GibsoNorth

Tried this 2 nights ago at a WTBT. Got my first lucid! Tried yesterday also and had a super vivid dream but not lucid. Seems very promising

Awesome