SilverBullet's Newly Revised Key to Lucid Dreaming

**Ctharlhie** · 07-15-2011 04:57 PM

You're explaining to me what a placebo is when I've made several posts that demonstrate that the placebo effect really has nothing to with what I will from now on refer to as the 'Intent Method'. Not only this but you back your assertions that actually contradict your own argument. I'm sorry to make such a point of this, but I think the Intent Method has potential and it's unfair to handicap the thread with all this unfounded stigma.

Placebo is the effect where if your expectations are high enough, you think you get the effects of something, and in certain subjects it can take a physiological effect, such as the insomnia pill. If you truly believe a pill will help you sleep, then almost any pill will have that effect. It won't cause you to go to sleep, you will cause yourself to go to sleep.

Correct. But this is almost word for word the analogy I used to show how the placebo effect does not apply to the Intent Method.

People see this and think "Intent is all I need? What is intent exactly?" Silverbullet would then tell them, and they would soak it up, now knowing that having this intent they can now have an easier time having LDs, and some do, due to placebo, when in fact all it is is this method saying "Do this, have intent, and lucids come easier" (as all methods say, do this, lucidity comes easier with this. That defines a method).

Ah, now this is interesting. I see where you are coming from here. Are you directly comparing intent to a placebo 'lucidity pill'? If so, I think that is very misleading, would you compare mantras to a placebo pill? They operate on the same basis as this concept of 'Intent'.
What's more, are the people who succeed and the people who fail differing in how they are practising the technique? Or does the difference in belief cause the differing results? Here we are coming closer to the heart of the issue. If the foundation of a technique is belief and confidence then how can you claim that there is a placebo effect at all? It may be that a successful dreamer has practised the technique correctly, or they were successful because they believed it would work. But since the technique IS belief and the placebo effect IS ALSO belief; the two seem to cancel each other out. This is an example of non-falsifiability as it is impossible to interpret whether the dependent variable (the result) is caused by the independent variable of intent or the extraneous variable of the placebo effect.

My gripe with this is that it doesn't actually do anything. It's like a method saying going to sleep is a key factor to lucid dreaming, if you all go to sleep, you have a chance of getting an LD.

As it happens, sleep is a key factor, you do need to be asleep and dreaming, in that state you have everything you need at your disposal.

MILD and DEILD and WBTB all actually do something, like familiarizing you brain with R.C.s so you have a chance at doing them in dreams, or waking up so you fall asleep more awake right into a REM.

Are you lucid dreaming because of the mantras, the time you spent up and performing R.Cs or are you lucid dreaming because you expected to? That is placebo effect in action, see how you backed you argument with evidence that actually contradicts you. The techniques of MILD, DILD and WBTB are actually far more prone to placebo effects than Intent which expressly tells you to believe, and most methods state you need belief anyway, how far do you think conventional methods are placebos now? Are they 'actually doing something'?

tl;dr This method does nothing and tells nothing new that we all don't already know. Even day old newbies will know that if you take a negative attitude you will fail

I apologise for always saying this but you have been guilty of a negative attitude

I'm just trying to look at this from a purely psychological perspective. If you're all going to start throwing psychology around then I'm going to have to get involved

Bloody hell that's a long post

**SilverBullet** · 07-15-2011 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

*text*

Well said.

**Avalanche** · 07-15-2011 05:11 PM

"I apologise for always saying this but you have been guilty of a negative attitude"

I never said I wasn't lol.

Why does having a go at psychology make you a little upset, or want to get properly involved?
You're not one of those people who thinks that since they looked up a few books on it they are suddenly professional psychologists and can read people?

"Are you lucid dreaming because of the mantras, the time you spent up and performing R.Cs or are you lucid dreaming because you expected to?"
Jokes on you, I haven't even had a lucid yet, so there.

I'd hate for this whole argument, yes it's an argument now, it's not a discussion anymore, to get more out of hand or personal.
Can we just drop it without having to fuss over it anymore, without either of us coming back to having the last word in?

**SilverBullet** · 07-15-2011 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Origami

"I apologise for always saying this but you have been guilty of a negative attitude"

I never said I wasn't lol.

Why does having a go at psychology make you a little upset, or want to get properly involved?
You're not one of those people who thinks that since they looked up a few books on it they are suddenly professional psychologists and can read people?

"Are you lucid dreaming because of the mantras, the time you spent up and performing R.Cs or are you lucid dreaming because you expected to?"
Jokes on you, I haven't even had a lucid yet, so there.

I'd hate for this whole argument, yes it's an argument now, it's not a discussion anymore, to get more out of hand or personal.
Can we just drop it without having to fuss over it anymore, without either of us coming back to having the last word in?

Arguments can be a learning experience, its fine to have one. If the information in our mind wasn't challenged every now and then we wouldn't be that smart now would we.
also, 1 ld last night

**Ctharlhie** · 07-15-2011 05:19 PM

I'd hate for this whole argument, yes it's an argument now, it's not a discussion anymore, to get more out of hand or personal.
Can we just drop it without having to fuss over it anymore, without either of us coming back to having the last word in?

I'm not trying to make this personal and I'm not trying to get the last word in. Thank you for being patient and not letting this devolve into a shouting match, you called it an argument but that's not necessarily a bad thing, this could have been a lot uglier.

Why does having a go at psychology make you a little upset, or want to get properly involved?
You're not one of those people who thinks that since they looked up a few books on it they are suddenly professional psychologists and can read people?

Well people weren't having a go at psychology as much as they were twisting it to their viewpoint. It doesn't upset me so much as I wanted to bring a bit of psychological objectivity to the table.
I should think that I would want to get involved in a discussion on experimental validity if I'm going to be studying psychology at University.

Originally Posted by Silverbullet

Arguments can be a learning experience, its fine to have one

call me a geek but I rather enjoyed it, it was a learning experience.

**SilverBullet** · 07-15-2011 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

call me a geek but I rather enjoyed it

same here. Doesn't sound like he's coming back though. :/

**Avalanche** · 07-15-2011 05:39 PM

Hold on, give me some time, I do other things than lurk you know!
It was fun that it wasn't a spelling mistake ridden caps lock shouting match between some 12 year old and a basement dwelling neckbeard.

**Ctharlhie** · 07-15-2011 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by Origami

Hold on, give me some time, I do other things than lurk you know!
It was fun that it wasn't a spelling mistake ridden caps lock shouting match between some 12 year old and a basement dwelling neckbeard.

Hahaha, yeah. You were a worthy opponent, Origami

now let's see Rynk3rt and Dakotahnok take me on

**Avalanche** · 07-15-2011 06:09 PM

Oh they are good, but it doesn't all hinge on one aspect of a person to win a fight.

Lol, that sounded deep.

**rynkrt3** · 07-15-2011 06:32 PM

I have nothing to say about any of this. Im just a spectator now.

**Avalanche** · 07-15-2011 06:33 PM

Game's over, we all won.

**Erii** · 07-15-2011 08:15 PM

I just read through most of this, you guys...really?
Stop it. Stop now, there is no need for so much discussion and question over this, stop thinking so hard, just do. Stop questioning yourself and people around you and just know. You all are the demise of yourself it seems...

**SilverBullet** · 07-15-2011 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by erible

I just read through most of this, you guys...really?
Stop it. Stop now, there is no need for so much discussion and question over this, stop thinking so hard, just do. Stop questioning yourself and people around you and just know. You all are the demise of yourself it seems...

I giggled. Well, I'm fine, I've been lucid dreaming and always will.

**dakotahnok** · 07-15-2011 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by erible

I just read through most of this, you guys...really?
Stop it. Stop now, there is no need for so much discussion and question over this, stop thinking so hard, just do. Stop questioning yourself and people around you and just know. You all are the demise of yourself it seems...

I agree. There is always room for argument and misunderstanding. But most of this discussion is just running around in circles.

**SilverBullet** · 07-15-2011 09:05 PM

**Ctharlhie** · 07-15-2011 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by SilverBullet

Damn straight!
@Rynk3rt and Dakotahnok; ohhh, you guys're no fun

But I'm guessing you're still opposed to the technique?

Ah well, each to their own.
@Erible; Over-analysis is my weakness ^^;

**Erii** · 07-16-2011 01:36 AM

Originally Posted by SilverBullet

I giggled. Well, I'm fine, I've been lucid dreaming and always will.

apparently you "left"

Originally Posted by dakotahnok

I agree. There is always room for argument and misunderstanding. But most of this discussion is just running around in circles.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

@Erible; Over-analysis is my weakness ^^;

silleh

**Marsupilama** · 07-16-2011 07:40 AM

So I got another lucid tonight, my intent helped me to question the environment. The dream was short tho as my lucidity wasn't very high and my instincts took over...but that doesn't really matter, I never had 3 lucid dreams in 2 days so far

So what happened?

I read through the whole discussion again yesterday since I didn't felt like I understanded (

) all of it the night before. Please correct me if I'm wrong SilverBullet but this is what I think you think is intent

The directions you give in the first post are just an indirect way of using intent. They're basically the controlled folly thing you metioned, right? So all I have to do to cleanse the link to intent, is free my physical mind and try to 'want' to lucid dream with my energy mind?!

I thought about how to do that last night, since I'm not (yet) into meditation at all, so what I did was the following: I took out my ipod and played a track I really love, a track I emerge in, which is the closest I can get to not thinking. Then I tried to feel my desire for lucid dreaming. I couldn't maintain it very long but hey, it seemed to work. Maybe it was a normal DILD tho, cause I realized something was strange, I didn't just get lucid like you do or like I did the night before...

**SilverBullet** · 07-16-2011 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Marsupilama

So I got another lucid tonight, my intent helped me to question the environment. The dream was short tho as my lucidity wasn't very high and my instincts took over...but that doesn't really matter, I never had 3 lucid dreams in 2 days so far

So what happened?

I read through the whole discussion again yesterday since I didn't felt like I understanded (

) all of it the night before. Please correct me if I'm wrong SilverBullet but this is what I think you think is intent

The directions you give in the first post are just an indirect way of using intent. They're basically the controlled folly thing you metioned, right? So all I have to do to cleanse the link to intent, is free my physical mind and try to 'want' to lucid dream with my energy mind?!

I thought about how to do that last night, since I'm not (yet) into meditation at all, so what I did was the following: I took out my ipod and played a track I really love, a track I emerge in, which is the closest I can get to not thinking. Then I tried to feel my desire for lucid dreaming. I couldn't maintain it very long but hey, it seemed to work. Maybe it was a normal DILD tho, cause I realized something was strange, I didn't just get lucid like you do or like I did the night before...

Your almost right on the money, the original post isn't controlled folly. And you don't need to meditate to shut of internal dialogue. It's easier when walking around with yours eyes crossed, so you're looking at everything but not a particular thing.

Everything else? Well, nice job! Sounds like you set your intent. Even though you didn't maintain the feeling, as long as you did it for an instant, you set your intent. And if that intent is impeccable, it will happen no matter what.

**Avalanche** · 07-16-2011 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Marsupilama

I read through the whole discussion again yesterday since I didn't felt like I understanded (

)

>I didn't feel like I understanded
>I understanded
>understanded

Damn you.

**Sheddler** · 07-17-2011 09:39 PM

I have the greatest feeling in the world that this, with apple juice, will make me lucid dream VERY frequently.

**Avalanche** · 07-17-2011 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by Sheddler

I have the greatest feeling in the world that this, with apple juice, will make me lucid dream VERY frequently.

Then you will, for sure.

**Colin** · 07-18-2011 06:58 PM

I've always had a problem with lucid dreaming confidence because I've tried so much without any results to speak of. Last summer I focused on lucid dreaming for a few months, but did not have a single lucid dream. Once the school year rolled around I completely gave up and stopped focusing on LD'ing. During the school year, I had two DILDs, which was cool but pissed me off at the same time because I couldnt understand how I could randomly have lucids without trying at all and then never have any when I actually try to. A few weeks ago, I started getting back into lucid dreaming and focusing a lot of time and energy into it, but I still continued to have no new LDs. A few days ago, I started trying out ADA and then last night I read this thread. Before I went to bed, I really got into the persona of being the greatest lucid dreamer in the world in hopes that it could magically help. And you know what happened? I had a lucid dream--finally! This is the first lucid dream I've had in probably like 8 months and it's the first I've ever had while I've been spending time focusing on LD'ing. Thanks for the help

Hopefully this will continue to help me.

**SilverBullet** · 07-18-2011 07:55 PM

Good job man. Glad I could help. Also, 2 extremely vivid LDs last night.

**Imbrainy** · 07-18-2011 11:37 PM

I love this way of thinking, it has gotten me all of my lucids so far, and has made my dreams more vivid! I first tried the original one you had posted on here, which worked once I think.

But I think this technique really is the key (for me, at least). I just need to use it more lol. So thanks for posting this!

EDIT: Post 200 on this thread! haha