Thread: 1 year, not a single LD

I've been working on LD for a few months and I have only had 2 lucid dreams. What works for me is while you are dreaming try to go to sleep in your dream. When I am on the "second level" of my dream that is when I normally become lucid. Good luck! LDs are amazing. You wake up and you're like WO.

Iriba, one year of trying for an ld, such persistence is very impressive and your efforts are worth an applaud.

What techniques have you tried during this time? Do you know what your dream signs are? Do you RC during the day? One very good complementary tech to induction methods is the WBTB. Have you experimented with wbtbs of varying length?

Originally Posted by NyxCC

Iriba, one year of trying for an ld, such persistence is very impressive and your efforts are worth an applaud.

What techniques have you tried during this time? Do you know what your dream signs are? Do you RC during the day? One very good complementary tech to induction methods is the WBTB. Have you experimented with wbtbs of varying length?

I've tried everything already, although on week-ends i keep my routine
doing WBTB's but i have no luck.
- i know what my dream signs are
- yes i RC during the day
i tried to switch times between my WBTBs too, yeah.

There was 1 dream where i could feel some vividness
the sun was heating my face, that was awesome indeed.
from that one i never had vivid dreams again.

I guess my awareness concentration time is too low.
i'm trying to training that but it's too hard. i don't know
what to do.

I'm impressed by your persistence too.
I'd be willing to work with you one on one. Send me a message if you're interested.

how consistent is your sleep schedule? what is your mantra? what do you think about during RCs? What do you think about during WBTBs? have you tried natural WBTBs?

How much do you really want to LD? If the answer is that you desperately want an LD, maybe you are trying too hard? Also if you are just going through the motions of the methods but after that long a time do not really expect it to work, that could be your issue. I know a combination of those two is my issue why I have not LDed in three months now: I desperately want one, but I do not really expect to have one much of the time. I need an attitude adjustment. Do you?

Hi Iriba.

Going from your DV entries for July I feel there are a couple of times where you came really close; namely the 7/8th July entry entitled 'Wildfire near my house' and the 16/17th July entry entitled 'I'm lucid, but I'm not.'
I would take heart and some credit from these.

On both these occasions you did WBTB (and MILD) when compared with the other entries.

The other thing I noticed is the sleep pattern? (I might be reading it wrong as it comes across in the entries as total sleep time, where you might actually mean the time recorded between dropping off to sleep and the dream itself?)

Quite a few entries show 4 hours, (school/work?) whilst other entries are 9+ hours. (Weekends?)The average seems to be 6 - 8 hrs.

It might help if you try a more consistent, or more regular sleep pattern maybe?

The reason I say this is that I tend very rarely to have a lucid within the first 5-6 hours of sleep, or the first portion of the night. I try to get good quality sleep here if I can.
I break it up with a WBTB (say after 5-6 hrs) where if I'm lucky I might increase my chances of having a DILD post-WBTB if I sleep another 2-3 hours after.

The second part of the night (early morning) is what I generally concentrate on. I think most people generally do to take advantage of the longer R.E.M. timings, etc.

I'm generally an introspective person where I try and see dreams and lucid dreams as being on the same playing field to me. (Although a lucid dream is more like the Manchester Utd of the dreamworld, as it were if you look at it in football terms.)

Maybe a relaxation routine or basic Meditation might help? It is something that I'm considering myself more regularly.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by BrandonBoss

how consistent is your sleep schedule? what is your mantra? what do you think about during RCs? What do you think about during WBTBs? have you tried natural WBTBs?

i sleep 7 hours during weeks and 10/12 hours during weekends
my mantra is: I know that i am dreaming
during RCs i think that i am lucid
during WBTBs i think about lucid dreams
never tried natural WBTBs

Originally Posted by JoannaB

How much do you really want to LD? If the answer is that you desperately want an LD, maybe you are trying too hard? Also if you are just going through the motions of the methods but after that long a time do not really expect it to work, that could be your issue. I know a combination of those two is my issue why I have not LDed in three months now: I desperately want one, but I do not really expect to have one much of the time. I need an attitude adjustment. Do you?

I really want to LD, it could change my life.
i am really into it, sometimes my motivation
goes down, but i definetely want to have 1
no matter how much time i will took.

Originally Posted by Iriba

There was 1 dream where i could feel some vividness
the sun was heating my face, that was awesome indeed.
from that one i never had vivid dreams again.

Great tips from everyone here, but I want to draw your attention to this excellent point made by Highlander:

Going from your DV entries for July I feel there are a couple of times where you came really close; namely the 7/8th July entry entitled 'Wildfire near my house' and the 16/17th July entry entitled 'I'm lucid, but I'm not.'
I would take heart and some credit from these.

I think part of the problem comes from the recognition of the dream state. It's pretty easy for people who are natural lucid dreamers to tell when they are lucid, but that's only part of the story.

If you are someone who has never had an ld, or you rightfully believe you have never had one, then how can you tell what a lucid dream feels like. I know you have read a lot about lucid dreaming but then let's review it:

To have a lucid dream means one is aware that one is asleep and dreaming. Now, that awareness can be high or low, it can last a second or say until you wake up. Personally, I think that everyone knows at a deeper level that they are dreaming, we may even become lucid for seconds and then be distracted into dream oblivion.

Therefore, one of the challenges people face is how to increase that awareness so that we are in control of our own actions. Induction techniques provide the starting point, but then it is up to us to drive it up from there.

I am saying this because I believe you might have experienced brief flahses of lucidity, and then continued dreaming. Another important point to consider is that lucidity is not directly related to vividness. With practice, you can learn to enhance both the time spent lucid in a dream, retain your awareness for longer as well as boost dream vividness.

I think you are ready to bring your training one step further:

1. I highly encourage you to post to your dream journal any dreams where you are doing RCs, thinking about dreams, lucidity, having false awakenings, etc. This will make it easier for us to help you, plus you will learn how to distingush varying levels of awareness in your dreams.

2. It is time for you to become task oriented. From personal experience, I know that having a task to complete in a dream will help you achieve lucidity, retain lucidity and prolong dreams. I have spent years having random lds and no task in mind, which basically took me nowhere apart from having random fun (i.e. not always). So, seriously consider doing a simple task in your dream and when you go back to bed, repeat the task along with your realize I'm dreaming mantra. Again, post in your journal any dreams, lucid or not lucid that are associated with your task.

I highly recommend picking something from TOTM basic. Check the tasks here: Task of the Month

3. Forget about the words "I don't" and "I can't".

because Iriba, you can and you will!

Give those things a try and see how it goes.

Originally Posted by NyxCC

Great tips from everyone here, but I want to draw your attention to this excellent point made by Highlander:



I think part of the problem comes from the recognition of the dream state. It's pretty easy for people who are natural lucid dreamers to tell when they are lucid, but that's only part of the story.

If you are someone who has never had an ld, or you rightfully believe you have never had one, then how can you tell what a lucid dream feels like. I know you have read a lot about lucid dreaming but then let's review it:

To have a lucid dream means one is aware that one is asleep and dreaming. Now, that awareness can be high or low, it can last a second or say until you wake up. Personally, I think that everyone knows at a deeper level that they are dreaming, we may even become lucid for seconds and then be distracted into dream oblivion.

Therefore, one of the challenges people face is how to increase that awareness so that we are in control of our own actions. Induction techniques provide the starting point, but then it is up to us to drive it up from there.

I am saying this because I believe you might have experienced brief flahses of lucidity, and then continued dreaming. Another important point to consider is that lucidity is not directly related to vividness. With practice, you can learn to enhance both the time spent lucid in a dream, retain your awareness for longer as well as boost dream vividness.

I think you are ready to bring your training one step further:

1. I highly encourage you to post to your dream journal any dreams where you are doing RCs, thinking about dreams, lucidity, having false awakenings, etc. This will make it easier for us to help you, plus you will learn how to distingush varying levels of awareness in your dreams.

2. It is time for you to become task oriented. From personal experience, I know that having a task to complete in a dream will help you achieve lucidity, retain lucidity and prolong dreams. I have spent years having random lds and no task in mind, which basically took me nowhere apart from having random fun (i.e. not always). So, seriously consider doing a simple task in your dream and when you go back to bed, repeat the task along with your realize I'm dreaming mantra. Again, post in your journal any dreams, lucid or not lucid that are associated with your task.

I highly recommend picking something from TOTM basic. Check the tasks here: Task of the Month

3. Forget about the words "I don't" and "I can't".

because Iriba, you can and you will!

Give those things a try and see how it goes.

well that lucid dream i had, i had very low awareness, it was like a normal dream
but i knew i was dreaming, because i did a RC and told myself that i was dreaming.
I already also know what is my task, that is why i stand untill here.
I also posted some dreams on my dream journal although they're quite old
they aren't many different from now, but alright i'll do it so maybe someone can help me.

I feel for you. With such persistance you deserve one. I have one trick that could help.
This is kinda like meditation. Close your eyes and start remembering your previous dreams and say each time you remember different dream this is a dream then try to vizualize in your previous dreams that you become lucid. Example in your previous dream you were at beach but now vizualise that you become lucid by watching your hands at the beach and realizing it is a dream and try to feel the excitment of being lucid and say this is a lucid dream. When you next time go to sleep imagine your previous dream but becoming lucid and try to feel the excitment again. When you fall asleep say i will be lucid in my dream or something like that and when you wake up and it didnt work try again. I usually wake abou 2-5 times a night and i have that many tries to have lucid dreams. I usually have 4-8 lucid dreams a week. It is really hard to get the first lucid dream but after that it should become easier dont know why. Now i get lucid dream just by thinking of being lucid before i fall asleep because i remember the feeling lucid dream.

Originally Posted by Iriba

i sleep 7 hours during weeks and 10/12 hours during weekends
my mantra is: I know that i am dreaming
during RCs i think that i am lucid
during WBTBs i think about lucid dreams
never tried natural WBTBs

This is helpful.
I don't have much experience with mantras. I've just never used them.
However, repeating "I know that I am dreaming" may be dangerous to your likelihood of success. Reason being that you are not dreaming when you do this (unless I completely misunderstand the concept of mantras). Since you are not dreaming, this means that you aren't actually telling yourself that you know you are dreaming. Rather, you are simply going through the motions and saying the words.

It's hard to explain, but here is an example:
When I first heard about reality checks, I did them all the time. "Am I dreaming? No. I'm awake." I did them several times an hour for about a week. As a result, at the end of the week I performed a reality check while in a dream, exactly the way that I had been rehearsing them for days: "Am I dreaming? No. I'm awake." The problem is that I wasn't ACTUALLY asking myself the question, I wasn't actually checking to see, and I wasn't actually answering... I never actually thought about the question. I was just going through the motions... just saying the words.
So, I'm not sure exactly how mantras work with lucid dreaming, but this is something to consider. They seem like they would work somewhat similarly to reality checks. The goal is to CREATE A HABIT. That way, that habit is likely to carry out in a dream. Just make sure that habit involves ACTUALLY exploring the question of the matter, instead of just being a mindless habit.

Your RC "I think that I am lucid." may have the same issue. Saying that you think that you are lucid, when you clearly aren't may not be the best way to go about it. Make sure that your RC involves you actually thinking about it. I think the phrase you are using should work as long as you actually think about it afterwards, but having that THREE part RC: Question, Observation/study/consideration, Answer is the most healthy way, I think.

Thinking about lucid dreams is actually a pretty good practice. Believe it or not, my lucid dreams, dream recall, clarity, and detail always go up significantly just from logging into these forums. However, for WBTB I have a particular method that I'd like for you to try.

Originally Posted by Iriba

I really want to LD, it could change my life.
i am really into it, sometimes my motivation
goes down, but i definetely want to have 1
no matter how much time i will took.

I not only agree with Joanna about this, but I DOUBLE agree with her (That's a lot).
Don't do this.
I don't know why. I don't know. But for whatever reason, trying too hard really seems to be a bad idea. I've just heard too many people speak of this issue. It is, ironically, the ones who want it the most that have the hardest time, especially when you start actually initiating lucid dreams, and then you get excited and wake yourself up. It's infuriating when it happens too. When it comes to the subject of lucid dreaming, just relax. Perform your methods of initialization and then let it be. Worrying about it can actually implant the idea that it's not going to happen, and then it just won't.

Advanced lucid dreaming: part 6 - YouTube
Watch that video Iriba. maybe it will help clarify things, also if you can watch the whole series from part 1 it is very good. LUCID DREAM ON!!!!

I'm getting the impression that you don't feel excited, just frustrated.
That's bad.
You need to kindle a genuine feeling of pure excitement, and get rid of all frustrations.
If you smile with delight every time you think of your future lucid dreaming goals, then you have the right attitude to it all.

I sometimes say that these things are kind of like flirting - it is only fun and rewarding if you do it in a playful way without worrying so much about it, and it only becomes stressful if you expect too much out of it every time you do it.

I was on and off about lucid dreaming for two years before I got my first real lucid dream, sometime in late October 2011 - and from that point my lucid dreams suddenly became very frequent, and I would have 2 or 3 of them a week for several months.
I'm still trying to figure out what I did at that point that made everything so easy, but I believe some aspects were that I went to bed early (usually around 9 PM), kept a dream journal, and always did a couple reality checks everytime I woke up, which made it easy to catch False Awakenings.

Speaking of that, I have actually noticed that my lucid dreams have almost always started out as False Awakenings;
maybe you are the same, but you just keep missing them since you mistake your False Awakenings for short real awakenings.

Try taking galantamine.

Hmmm... It sounds like you don't recognize success even when you see it. Set goals, finish them. You had an LD, count it, it doesn't matter how long or fun it was, it is a step forward. Also, one on one help can make a tremendous difference. You can post every day updates in the DVA and get help from people there, or you can get one on one help from Sloth like he proposed, I am sure he could get you up and LDing in no time.

Also, WBTB is an amazing thing for LDing, try doing it multiple times a night and learning how to wake up without an alarm, this will make the transitions a lot better and keep your mind focused on LDing instead of the most evil device known to man (alarm clock)

BTW have you tried affirmations? If I saw to myself "I'M GONNA BECOME LUCID TONIGHT" about 10 times, I always seem to have lucid dreams. I'm naturally prone to lucid dreams but the method clearly ups your chances of having them.

Originally Posted by CrimpJiggler

BTW have you tried affirmations? If I saw to myself "I'M GONNA BECOME LUCID TONIGHT" about 10 times, I always seem to have lucid dreams. I'm naturally prone to lucid dreams but the method clearly ups your chances of having them.

(I know you were talking to OP... but)
I have been doing affirmations lately, just things to get my subconscious expectation up. These are different than mantra because I just use it to up my attitude, and use that to put positive attitude into my mantra so that my expectation skyrockets!

Originally Posted by CrimpJiggler

BTW have you tried affirmations? If I saw to myself "I'M GONNA BECOME LUCID TONIGHT" about 10 times, I always seem to have lucid dreams. I'm naturally prone to lucid dreams but the method clearly ups your chances of having them.

It makes no difference to me, all dreams are normal for me if i MILD or not
although i always do MILD.


Btw. I have a feeling my motivation can't get high because after
1 year of course i would be demotivated.
Somehow, i think my subconscious seems demotivated to have lucid dreams

but with motivation or not, i never gave up or ever will!

Originally Posted by Iriba

It makes no difference to me, all dreams are normal for me if i MILD or not
although i always do MILD.


Btw. I have a feeling my motivation can't get high because after
1 year of course i would be demotivated.
Somehow, i think my subconscious seems demotivated to have lucid dreams

but with motivation or not, i never gave up or ever will!

Do you find the quest for lucid draming fun?
Make sure you feel that it's something you actually look forward to and feel excited about, not just as something you "must" achieve.
If you try too hard then you will be more focused on the frustration itself, and this makes it harder to focus on actual lucid dreaming.

Also, I recommend that you sit down right now and make a list of things you want to experience in your first lucid dream.
One very common mistake is to strive for "a lucid dream" - what's that?
A "lucid dream" is not a concrete event, it's just a term, so make sure you specify exactly what you want to dream about or imagine an actual scenario.
One relatively easy affirmation or "mantra" could be to imagine yourself jumping into the air and flying, and then you can imagine that scenario while you are falling asleep and repeat firmly to yourself "I jump, and fly away..." or something similar that feels concise and to the point.
I actually recommend "I jump, and fly away..." because I like the sound of that mantra, it has a pretty nice ring to it.

Of course, it might feel like repeating a mantra will "only" lead to dreaming about something without becoming lucid - but you could actually become lucid from the event itself, since you might recognize it and suddenly say to yourself "hey, this was my lucid dreaming goal!".

Laurelindo has good points.

I would like yo add, if you keep doing the exact same thing every night for a year. You are expecting to fail each night. Change things around little by little. Expect things to work.
Your subconscious expectation seems to be that you are not going to LD. When dealing with lucid dreams, subconscious expectation is a biiiiiiiig deal. Maybe the most important thing to lucidity.

Also, what are you doing for recall right now?

Originally Posted by Laurelindo

Do you find the quest for lucid draming fun?
Make sure you feel that it's something you actually look forward to and feel excited about, not just as something you "must" achieve.
If you try too hard then you will be more focused on the frustration itself, and this makes it harder to focus on actual lucid dreaming.

Also, I recommend that you sit down right now and make a list of things you want to experience in your first lucid dream.
One very common mistake is to strive for "a lucid dream" - what's that?
A "lucid dream" is not a concrete event, it's just a term, so make sure you specify exactly what you want to dream about or imagine an actual scenario.
One relatively easy affirmation or "mantra" could be to imagine yourself jumping into the air and flying, and then you can imagine that scenario while you are falling asleep and repeat firmly to yourself "I jump, and fly away..." or something similar that feels concise and to the point.
I actually recommend "I jump, and fly away..." because I like the sound of that mantra, it has a pretty nice ring to it.

Of course, it might feel like repeating a mantra will "only" lead to dreaming about something without becoming lucid - but you could actually become lucid from the event itself, since you might recognize it and suddenly say to yourself "hey, this was my lucid dreaming goal!".

I already have goals that i really want to achieve when LDing
they are goals that i will never forget, so my subconscious won't too

Originally Posted by BrandonBoss

Laurelindo has good points.

I would like yo add, if you keep doing the exact same thing every night for a year. You are expecting to fail each night. Change things around little by little. Expect things to work.
Your subconscious expectation seems to be that you are not going to LD. When dealing with lucid dreams, subconscious expectation is a biiiiiiiig deal. Maybe the most important thing to lucidity.

Also, what are you doing for recall right now?

what do you mean "doing for recall right now"?

Originally Posted by Iriba

what do you mean "doing for recall right now"?

What are you doing to recall dreams? I don't understand what you mean. Do you not practice recall?

Have you tried just taking a break completely from trying to lucid dream? That is actually how I had my first lucid dream. I had studied lucid dreaming for a long time and just like you I was determined to have one, but after a few months of no success I decided to take a break from everything except writing down my dreams in the morning. No techniques, WBTB, RC's, nothing. Then, one or two nights later, I just so happened to realize I was dreaming randomly in a dream and had my first LD.