Well then, how's about stepping away from the shared-dreaming BS ans going back to the meat of the OP for a flash? Let me start:
Originally Posted by Daredevilpwn
Do you think dreams are just a creation of our brains or are we really entering a different reality?
I think dreams are definitely a creation of our brains, and when dreaming we are certainly not entering a different reality we may be expanding our perception or experience of reality, yes, but we're not entering a different one. That is of course just an opinion, because who really knows? But:
Does the condition of dreaming offer us an opportunity to tap additional, richer, veins of reality than those we experience in waking life? Perhaps. Do dreams, especially Ld's, offer us the ability to merge our perception of reality with other dreamers, so that we can perceive reality in a manner outside our personal abilities or experience? Maybe. The nature and potentials of dreams, I think, are expansive enough that we can learn things about reality itself, including how others might see it, without the world of dreams being a separate reality unto itself.
I hope that made sense, because I think it is extremely important, and addresses the equally important statement you are actually making in your OP, Daredevilpwn: the miracle of the dreaming experience, especially as compounded by LD'ing, need not be an entity unto itself, but might simply be our heightened ability to experience reality from truly novel perspectives.
I will give you what I think is going on when we sleep. I believe that when we are dreaming our consciousness is entering a new world all to together I don't believe it is created by the brain.
Why do you think this? I agree that everything is energy (tough the universe my not be quite as empty as you think, which I'll get to in a second), but does this really explain the transfer of our consciousness every night to a completely different reality? I don't think so.
Before I start I want to say that what I am saying is just a possibility I am not claiming it is fact. Alright lets start. First you must understand that EVERYTHING is energy. Matter is just condensed energy. The world is 99.9% empty space. So the question is why do things appear solid? Well it is because energy has a specific frequency a "vibration" if you will. Our bodies and the physical world vibrate at the same level. This is why things appear solid to the physical body. Let me give you a quick example. Ice vibrates slower than water. Since they are not vibrating at the same level water and ice don't appear to be solid to each other. They are out of sync with each other but the vibration of the water isn't high enough that it isn't a part of physical reality anymore. Now then as for dreaming. When doing a WILD or DEILD most people feel the vibrations. The truth is our bodies are vibrating right now but we don't feel it we are too used to it. But during a WILD/DEILD we do feel them. Think of the vibrations as a radio channel. Change the vibration you change the channel. We are beings of consciousness and have the ability to change our vibrations.
For the sake of credibility, you might want to ease up on the vibration stuff. Yes, the theosophists, and mystic Hindus and Buddhists etc take great pleasure in the "vibrations" mentioned in modern attempts to explain reality like string theory. Trouble is, the vibrations the physicists talk about have nothing whatsoever to do with the vibrations the priests talk about and, ultimately, the vibrations you feel during WILD or DEILD have nothing whatsoever to do with either -- they're just your witnessing of physical sensations that you (and every other living human) experience every night when falling asleep, except that the presence of your waking awareness during WILD gives you a chance to witness them ... and speculate about them. Oh, and for what it's worth: with background radiation, Higgs fields, dark matter, and what have you, theoretical physicists seem to be determining on a daily basis that the universe is not mostly empty (which is a good thing for the spiritual types, because it allows an explanation for how information is transferred in phenomena like telepathy or dream-sharing).
Speaking of vibrations:
When we feel these vibrations we are literally tuning into a different reality. In this case the dream world. The dream world its self has its own vibration and it is most likely vibrating MUCH higher than the physical world. The reason I think it is higher in vibration is because you can change it with just a thought. Reality in a dream is more fluid where in the physical world it is a lot denser.
I've been doing this dreaming thing for a very, very long time, and, though I've experienced some truly mindbending stuff, have learned to work the fluidity of dreams to great effect, and have encountered truly transcendental places/conditions, I have never experienced anything remotely resembling this vibration effect about which you speak. Couldn't "reality" in a dream be more fluid simply because in terms of the dreamscape itself it is all of your creation, and thus potentially under your complete control, thanks to the non-dualist perspective you hold in a LD? Isn't that simpler than your vibration theory anyway? Am I missing something?
Enough of vibrations ( and intentionally avoiding event turning the knob of the shared-dreaming door):
So to sum of my reasons for believing why dreams are an alternate non-physical reality is this.
#1 You feel a non-physical vibrational change if not a vibrational change you feel some sort of phase change when entering the dream state with no lapse in consciousness. Remember everything is energy and everything has a vibration to it. The dream world is non physical and is of higher vibration.
The simplest explanation of this is that you are experiencing bodily functions (blood flow, muscle spasms, etc) that you would not have noticed had you been conscious. Isn't this a possibility as well? If not, then why not?
#2 Impossible for a brain to come up with the exact same dream scenario for two different people. Even if they tried to induce a shared dream if dreams were just brain simulations then at the most these two people dream about each other but they will not have the SAME dream. Unless of course the dream world is an alternate plane of reality that we all tap into when we sleep...
Okay. But when exactly are two people actually experiencing identical dreams? Even in the grandest of shared-dreaming anecdotes, the dreams are usually quite different. All archetypes aside, everything is always different. So when does the tapping begin?
I hope some of this makes sense, Daredevilpwn, and I also hope that you are careful to take nothing I say personally; as with your other thread, you are onto something fundmental here, and I'd love to see it discussed at length, with all ideas falling to the pot (and not just another "because I said so!" shared-dreaming mess). With that in mind, I figured it best to just put it all out there!
Belated thanks for starting the thread!
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