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    Thread: new conjectures about precognition and shared dreaming

    1. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by sivason View Post
      Something I have come to terms with 100% is that, I should almost always keep this stuff to myself because no person will be convinced unless they experience it. If I insist, the logical conclusion for some is simply that I am lying.
      I'm experiencing this all the time, so sometimes I'm very excited to post such an experience, but then I stop myself from doing it because I feel it's going to be just a waste of time, because of other people predetermined mindset.

      Lets give it a generic name "energy sense" for further reference. I admit I never will fault anyone for calling bull shit on anything so far fetched, but I also KNOW from being alive and aware of my own experience that all this stuff exists. faced with that I normally do not engage.
      It is natural for the atheist to want details like serial numbers, first and last names, a series of five images or some such solid proof. More power to you as far as maintaining your doubt. However, if a phenomena exists that is real but falls short of such proof you do not get to have that in your life and we do. Ask all you want for a scientific proof of such things and rest assured no one will provide the proof. I somehow think I am being fun here so take no offense: If I get to experience a wonderful life full of magic and mystery why the hell would I give the first [email protected]#k if any one else chooses to disbelieve? That said, feel free to take a firm stance and we can get intellectual. I posit that we leave open the hypothesis that sivason is either mental ill in some manner that cause delusions or that sivason is an attention seeking liar. Will leave that out there, although I personally do not hold to that theory, being me and biased in my favor.
      Sivason, until now I wasn't sure that you really believe in mystical energy or just were taking the word out of the context for the purpose of lucid dreaming, but now I actually know that I'm not alone into this
      Energy sense: Energy in the sense of what practitioners of kundalini, reiki, kria yoga and so on claim their arts are manipulating. It is some state of matter that is not detectable with current instruments. There is some mechanism that allows animals to interact with it. This sense is so subtle that most people are not even aware the sensory input is a distinct thing. It is just lumped in with the other senses almost like a static. It may be interpreted as a sense of motion or tingling that is always somewhere in the background. It is actually a sense all to its own and when focused on and trained the sensory inputs can become noticeable. What ever this stuff is it can also be effected by some activity of the highly trained brain.
      I'm experiencing this most often when I have out of body experience or higer astral experience, I was able to feel it only several times on this Reality level, but I still can't come with a way to do it consciously, while in an OBE and high AP I do it so effortlessly like is a second nature to me.
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    2. #27
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      Hi and welcome, Michael79. I am glad you followed through with the courage of your convictions and expressed yourself here regardless of opposing, biased perspectives. I promise you it won't be a waste of time here and nobody is judging. I think everybody on this thread so far has experienced similar, profound things.
      sivason likes this.
      THE PHASE = waking consciousness during sleep hybridisation at 40Hz of brainwave activity conducive to lucid dreaming and autoscopy.

    3. #28
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      Occiptialred,

      One reason I'm trying to update our descriptions for modern sensibilities, is that our modern way of thinking brings something to the table that previously people didn't have. There are what I see to be important problems which were not solved in earlier times. In my view raja yoga, as an example, does not work. It works to an extent, but not to the end, because it isn't adequate as a description for non-modern people either.

      Yes I agree about the word 'energy'. Consider for example the 'energy lifeforms' of sci-fi. If the life form has memory, that implies some kind of structure, which is almost a synonym for what we call matter. Everything beyond that is handwaving. I'm not saying the way New Agers use the word energy is completely meaningless, but it doesn't go very far for me.

      To review, one of the insights that I got in the past month was to also consider the information that's in the quantum states of the physical world. This isn't the same as parallel worlds, and its not the same as 'astral' either, though it does overlap a little bit with the concept of an aether. My intuition had been screwed up by the sci-fi spin on quantum mechanics, but conversations with two physicists got me past that a bit.

      Subsequently, something I've been trying to get more clarity on is that there's something like a neural network that I use to process the data. There's one, presumably my brain, which is most directly connected to sensate inputs which come both before and after I'm thinking about them. But there seems to be another system, also like a neural net, which seems to be prior to and less directly connected to this more immediate system. In conventional language, that would be my 'soul' (as distinct from my 'spirit') which would contain the accumulated result of my 'past lives'. I don't really believe in past lives in the conventional sense. I also question where that 'soul' is and how it works. Something like a neural network requires a very large number of constituent parts, it isn't a single, atomic thing. Might I be directly accessing the brains of previous bodies, so there's a kind of temporal non-locality, but no other matter? Is that why it is relatively indestructible, I can feel what it was before it was destroyed? Or is it made of something else?

      Summerlander,

      As a side note, 'Geezer' Butler, the Black Sabbath bass player, wrote pretty much all the lyrics to Ozzy-era Black Sabbath, and Butler and Toni Iommi wrote almost all the music. All of solo-Ozzy's best songs were largely written by Randy Rhodes, except for the ones on the Ozzmosis record, which was Butler again, with Zakk Wylde. Ozzy has a cool voice, but to a large extent he was merely in the right place at the right time. In any case, the song I was referring to was written by Iommi and Ronnie James Dio, who made four records with Butler and Iommi, the last one under the name Heaven and Hell. That particular song was released with a compilation and wasn't on an album. I first heard it right before I joined the forum.

      I regards to the 'timeless' view of the past and future, that's also part of how I'm thinking about it, with an important qualification. Saying that there's no time might be interpreted by some to mean that there's not choice, that everything is predestined. That is not my understanding. I'm speculating that the information about future states is in the quantum information in the present state. This supposes that the brain is not purely classical, and is able to work with this. But we're able some how to manipulate the projections of that information in way that changes the future organization of it. That's where the choice comes in. The future is perceived and affected in the present.

      One of the implications of this, is that if you could change the projection too much, you change the present in a way that would be destructive to things that exist in the present. Some things would cease to exist, and our memories of them also. I think this limits the amount of radical change that is possible.
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    4. #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by Summerlander View Post

      That was a lack of imagination on his part (as a philosopher, Comte should've known better than to jump the gun—but still, he was only human and being wrong about one thing doesn't discredit his other great ideas). By the same token, I'd imagine, we shouldn't prematurely say that we will never solve the enigma of consciousness. The awareness phenomena should be explored on an individual as well as collective level. (And we should claim back the term 'collective consciousness' in the sense that the sociologist Emile Durkheim intended.)
      Well, I do think that there is something inherent to the enigma of consciousness that makes it unsolvable. Generally, for technology to collect information, it must absorb it.

      To measure the temperature, there must be a transfer of energy from a "hot" object to the thermometer (let's say the mercury within it) or from the thermometer to a "cold object."
      To measure weight, a balance must absorb the force exerted by an object.
      To measure light intensity, the light must be absorbed by some instrument.
      ETC.

      All this data is always also relative. These equipment must be calibrated to give accurate information.

      To measure length, you can place a ruler beside the object and compare the length.

      So how could we ever measure a qualia? Not only would an instrument need to absorb it... it would also need to be calibrated. Most likely, this instrument would have to be a sentient being itself with perhaps the ability to change the parameters by which stimuli causes qualia. What I mean is let's say I am looking at a red circle. Somehow, this instrument would have to be able to absorb my qualia of seeing a red circle. But then, perhaps it would actually see a blue blob. Then, it needs to be calibrated until it sees the red circle as I am seeing it. The only this could work is if there were really some sort of psychic energy released by our brains as we perceive qualia. I might not be imaginative enough but I just don't believe there's a reality where we do that.

      Another thing science explores is causality. So, with the principles of science we can show that activation of certain brain regions leads to certain experiences but just knowing that there is causality or correlation doesn't really explain how a physical event (in the brain) can affect a subjective event... and especially, how can a subjective event affect a physical event (in the brain). I just think this will always be an inherent impossibility to solve the enigma.

      Quote Originally Posted by shadowofwind View Post

      To review, one of the insights that I got in the past month was to also consider the information that's in the quantum states of the physical world. This isn't the same as parallel worlds, and its not the same as 'astral' either, though it does overlap a little bit with the concept of an aether. My intuition had been screwed up by the sci-fi spin on quantum mechanics, but conversations with two physicists got me past that a bit.

      Subsequently, something I've been trying to get more clarity on is that there's something like a neural network that I use to process the data. There's one, presumably my brain, which is most directly connected to sensate inputs which come both before and after I'm thinking about them. But there seems to be another system, also like a neural net, which seems to be prior to and less directly connected to this more immediate system. In conventional language, that would be my 'soul' (as distinct from my 'spirit') which would contain the accumulated result of my 'past lives'. I don't really believe in past lives in the conventional sense. I also question where that 'soul' is and how it works. Something like a neural network requires a very large number of constituent parts, it isn't a single, atomic thing. Might I be directly accessing the brains of previous bodies, so there's a kind of temporal non-locality, but no other matter? Is that why it is relatively indestructible, I can feel what it was before it was destroyed? Or is it made of something else?
      I'd be interested in you further dissecting the concept of quantum states, both as to how to avoid the sci-fi spin on quantum mechanics and to see it's value in the conversation of spirituality. My own understanding of quantum mechanics is also very basic. What I understand is that quantum mechanics are the physical theories of the subatomic world which is characterized by discrete values (quanta). Like an electron is not in position 1.00, 1.01, 1.02, 1.03 etc counting all the decimals, but in specific position clouds 1, 2, 3, 4 (also considering orbital names s, p, d, f, and variations) and that things such as light and particles both behave as waves and particles. and there's a level of uncertainty because it's not all cause-and-effect but a bit of probability too. All in all, this is a bit much for my brain to comprehend and especially because of that, I don't see how it leads to support a spiritual conversation. It seems the popular conversation has just taken the fact that the concepts are hard to comprehend to say "hey, physics are weird, so for sure weird stuff like spiritual stuff is supported by it" Just the popular concept of "an observer affects the behavior of a particle, from wave to particle" or such is such... they are not talking about a human observer but rather about the technology which is collecting information (and therefore interacting physically with it to some extent).

      And yes, those "energy lifeforms" really do insinuate another type of matter to provide the structure.

      And I do like the way you're going with your theorizing about timeless brains storing spirit or soul. I must confess it's hard for me to discern between soul and spirit
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    5. #30
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      Consciousness is, undoubtedly, one of the biggest mysteries. So much so that some scientists developed an eliminativist philosophy in a bid to explain it away as just an illusion. But if there is anything in the universe that cannot be an illusion, it is consciousness itself. How can we even begin to think of ourselves as 'seemingly conscious'? It makes no sense because the seeming IS the reality. We can confidently say that the fact that the 'lights are on', so to speak, is an absolute mystery. It may be that we might find consciousness to be the very foundational medium which undergirds reality and existence itself—and yet none of us would have a clue as to what this means exactly. It is not a thing that can be described like physical objects, and yet, it undoubtedly exists within a first person ontology. We cannot open a bat's head to look for its consciousness because it is the what it is like to be the bat; we'd have to be the bat in order to know what it is like to be one, to attain it's perspective firsthand. I find this quote quite profound:

      'Nobody has the slightest idea how anything material could be conscious. Nobody even knows what it would be like to have the slightest idea about how anything material could be conscious.'

      ~Jerry Fodor
      Occipitalred likes this.
      THE PHASE = waking consciousness during sleep hybridisation at 40Hz of brainwave activity conducive to lucid dreaming and autoscopy.

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