Thread: Who is the dreamer when you are not lucid?

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

It really seems that there are two camps loosely forming in this thread - those that lean spiritual and those that lean science.

I suppose most subjects surrounding lucid dreaming appeal to both “camps”. I think the question itself isn’t strictly a “beyond dreaming” topic (though maybe it was intended to be) and can be interpreted either way. I think it’s great we can all share our differing beliefs and opinions in one place with respect :-)

Originally Posted by IndigoRose

I see the consciousness as a tip of a pyramid, the subconscious is the base, but it is still one pyramid, one me.

I agree. I like this way of interpreting it.

Originally Posted by IndigoRose

And then, I realized, we are exactly the same. Our schemas are more complex and the connections we make can be more abstract, but that's it.
It makes me somewhat uncomfortable to think that we are just a bunch of learned patterns but it is also humbling.
Non-lucid dreams make it possible to observe this in its rawness and nakedness, without the meta-layer that we create over it.

Yeah, It can be a hard pill to swallow but I think it’s fascinating and it doesn’t really detract from the human experience or the beauty of being alive.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

Just even the slightest hint of the concept of "dream" is enough to trigger lucidity -- once in a dream I was seated in a large outdoor amphitheater, and a young woman walked up the aisle, with the word "Dream" on her t-shirt, which triggered my lucidity and went on to have a nice LD.
This is where MILD, PM exercises, and goal setting comes really big into the picture: they trigger the "little pings" from the (subconscious?), "Psst! Hey, remember about dreaming and your goal to recognize the dream state!" The more we train our mind to produce these pings while awake, the more they occur in dream.

I’ve had lots of experiences like this also. Am I correct in thinking “Lucid dreaming” is its own schema? Through journaling and performing RCs we’re building up the necessary associations needed to spot dream signs, and recognise the dream state. Then we utilise techniques such as WBTB and MILD to “activate” our lucid dream schema ready to return to sleep? If that was the case, is the “ping” you mentioned this at work?

Originally Posted by FryingMan

In many ways, I prefer them to lucids. My epics are long, vivid, visually stunning, fun/interesting, and very stable. My LDs tend to be shorter and sometimes less stable (but I still love them, too)

I had an amazing dream a couple of nights ago. It was long, extremely vivid with an interesting and mostly coherent plot. At the end of it I became lucid and after a little messing around I woke up. On reflection the dream prior to becoming lucid was much more memorable and interesting then the moment I actually became lucid! I suppose they’re two very different experiences and both have their merits.