What are all the 2012 predictions?

**Dannon Oneironaut** · 05-07-2011 07:55 AM

The Mayans and the Greeks and the Egyptians and the Indians, and maybe the Chinese, knew that the Earth orbits the Sun, they just used the geo-centric model for astrological purposes. In the Mayan long-count calender the wobble of the sun is mapped out exactly day by day. This is what the whole tonal system is in their astrology. Although people have known that the Earth orbits the sun, it isn't practical for astrological purposes to map it that way. The Christians in the dark ages suppressed this knowledge.

As for the Mayans calling planets stars, semantics lost in translation. They did this all without telescopes. So did the Greeks. So did the Egyptians and the Indians. The Eskimos have 100 words for snow. We know that there are different kinds of snows, but we just call it 'snow'. The Mayans knew that the Sun was different than the Moon. It can be forgiven if people call some asteroids 'planets', even Pluto is no longer a planet, but if we call it a planet that doesn't mean that we are ignorant. It is just a word. The word translated to 'star' may literally mean 'celestial body' for all we know. The Mayans knew there was gravity. Sure, they didn't have Newton's law, but they observed the Sun's wobble and apparently figured it out via some unknown science. It is all mapped out in the tonal. Day by day. The evidence that they knew this is right there on their calendar. They used this information to predict the weather. Their calendar was also a weather forecast! I wonder if you guys have actually looked at their calendars. They had many, not just the one that we are talking about here. These different calendars served different purposes. The ones that the average people used was very basic, but still much more sophisticated than our modern one.

I saw a video on google videos of an astronomy conference that took place in 2001 and an astronomer from Hawaii was claiming that the sun wobbled and he had a slideshow showing how it does it. Apparently he was the one who discovered this. I agree that it makes sense that everybody should know this, and maybe now everybody does. The wobble of the sun also affects the orbit of the Earth, it is all interconnected, of course.

Edit: apparently they do measure the wobble of stars to determine if there are planets around them, but many times they are wrong and find only asteroids or 'planetoids'. This may also be semantics.

**Descensus** · 05-07-2011 06:40 PM

I'm still waiting for some sort of citation that claims "most astronomers do not know stars wobble."

**Xei** · 05-07-2011 07:26 PM

I'm still waiting for any kind of historical evidence whatsoever. :/

**Dannon Oneironaut** · 05-11-2011 12:03 AM

Have you actually looked at the calendar yet? The solar wobble is mapped on it directly daily. This is the historical evidence that the Mayans knew about the solar wobble. Anyway, I am not an expert on the Mayan Calendar and only know a little bit about it so I am not too interested in it beyond curiosity. But at least I have seen it and talked to Mayan elders about it so they could explain it to me. I recommend that if you want to know if Mayans knew about solar wobble look at it yourself. You may need someone to decipher the glyphs for you, but the top three glyphs represent the solar wobble as an axis in three dimensions.

**Xei** · 05-11-2011 12:23 AM

So you have no historical evidence at all that the Mayans believed this? So we're taking some youtube videos and websites with purple backgrounds on faith?

**Dannon Oneironaut** · 05-11-2011 06:07 PM

No, I am talking about the actual calendar they have used for thousands of years. I haven't watched any youtube videos or any websites about it. The actual calendar was made before youtube was around, before there were websites, and before white man came after the decline of their civilization. This is a historical document. My feeling is that all astrology is based off the solar wobble, at least tropical zodiac. However, the Mayan calendar has nothing to do with other astrologies.

**Xei** · 05-11-2011 07:43 PM

So you keep saying, but you don't seem to understand what history is based on..? History is based on the remaining physical evidence created by the people at the time. You say most astronomers don't know about the sun's wobble. That has been shown to be incorrect. You also say that the Mayans knew about it and it's a part of their calendar. But all you keep doing is saying it; you're providing no historical evidence at all that this is true, indeed no apparent awareness of any knowledge about the Mayans beyond assertions you've heard from other people. We knew neolithic cultures were aware of the equinoxes due to the stone monuments they left which align with them. We know various bronze age cultures were aware of 'wandering stars' due to written records, diagrams predicting their movements, etcetera. I'm asking for just one piece of good evidence of the Mayans' knowledge of the phenomenon of the star's wobble.

**tommo** · 05-12-2011 02:46 AM

Indeed I can't find anything about it. In fact, the first thing that comes up when I google it is this thread. They apparently tracked the Venus cycle, which was on a calendar. It also appears that they didn't have all the information for the things you mentioned on one calendar.
They had several different calendars with different things on them. But nothing about a sun wobbling that I can see.
IMO they would have had to have had a few Rainmans living in their day to be able to realise that. They would've needed to know the size and mass of the planets near the sun, which I don't think they did,
and then they would have needed to figure out what effect that would have on the sun. Which, as I pointed out earlier, is insignificant; tiny, miniscule.

**Erii** · 05-12-2011 03:27 AM

all of our faces will explode and maggots will crawl out....

**Dannon Oneironaut** · 05-18-2011 10:18 AM

I think that none of you have actually studied the Mayan calendar and are underestimating the complexity of it. It isn't 'just a calendar' like we know of. It is maybe about as hard to understand as the theory of relativity so I don't pretend to understand it. It is mostly a bunch of Greek to me.

Let me find a picture of the glyphs that represent the solar wobble...

About half of these mostly on the left represent the solar wobble:

These are arranged in all different combinations along with their numbering system to represent the solar wobble. See how they are in groups of three? Like I said, this represents the sun's location in three dimensions. The calendar itself is more like a fourth dimension map, if you consider time to be the fourth dimension. That is why it is cyclical, it is a diagram of an object.

There are many different calendars in Maya. Not all things are found on the internet, much knowledge is not on the internet and the elders have it. Try to find anything about taoist sorcery on the internet, just because it isn't there doesn't mean that the Taoists didn't practice sorcery. You would have to go to Mexico and find a keeper of the culture to tell you that the sun wobbles. Do you think that some Mexican Indian Shaman living in a hut with no electricity and no running water with no road to his village would know that the Sun wobbles because he keeps up to date on astronomy? I rather take them on their word when they say that it has been passed down from their ancestors. This is the one thing that they told me that can be verified by modern science. I won't tell you what else they told me because you would all laugh and I feel like I would be betraying a secret told to me in confidence. I cannot give historic evidence as the Indians don't just share this kind of stuff, especially after the Spanish wiped them out and tried to erase their culture. It was actually illegal to use the Mayan calendar or to speak Mayan for so long. The Indians don't care if we take them seriously. We live in a different age now anyway.

As for most astronomers not knowing that the sun wobbles, I admit I was mistaken. I was paraphrasing what I read a prominent astronomer said when he was predicting Earthquakes via the Sun's wobble. It would be interesting to see how the Sun will be wobbling on the winter solstice 2012. This interest me, and I am all for learning more. But I have so much on my plate right now, that this will have to be just a curious interest.

It doesn't make much difference anyway as they predicted the Spanish coming and wiping out their civilization but they don't say anything happens on 2012 except that we go to the fifth world which is just another cycle of the wheel.

**tommo** · 05-18-2011 03:58 PM

Why didn't they do anything if they knew the Spanish would invade their land?

**sloth** · 05-18-2011 09:48 PM

Very first line of the thread:

Originally Posted by gameoverlord345

Weather you don't believe it, do believe it, or whatever, what are all the 2012 predictions?

I'm sure glad that this thread, predictably, turned into a debate over whether or not we should believe it.

**Xei** · 05-18-2011 10:22 PM

I thought it turned into a debate about whether or not the Mayans made predictions based on the sun wobbling.

**tommo** · 05-19-2011 03:35 AM

Exactly, it didn't turn in to that at all.
We're currently just picking Dannon's brains on his knowledge. And seeing if we can figure out if Mayan's really knew the sun wobbled.
As well as whether they have predicted the future.

So basically, we're barely talking about 2012 at all. Nice comprehension there bud.

**LucidFlanders** · 05-19-2011 03:49 AM

No end of the world in 2012, i'll still be alive and kicking in 2013.

**sloth** · 05-19-2011 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Xei

I thought it turned into a debate about whether or not the Mayans made predictions based on the sun wobbling.

Originally Posted by tommo

Exactly, it didn't turn in to that at all.
We're currently just picking Dannon's brains on his knowledge. And seeing if we can figure out if Mayan's really knew the sun wobbled.
As well as whether they have predicted the future.

So basically, we're barely talking about 2012 at all. Nice comprehension there bud.

Yes! I pulled it off. We are now debating over whether or not we are debating.
You two are my favorites.

**tommo** · 05-19-2011 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by sloth

Yes! I pulled it off. We are now debating over whether or not we are debating.
You two are my favorites.

No wonder your parents called you sloth.

**Xei** · 05-19-2011 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by sloth

Yes! I pulled it off. We are now debating over whether or not we are debating.
You two are my favorites.

Nah you just derped, son, as per usual.

**sloth** · 05-19-2011 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by Xei

Nah you just derped, son, as per usual.

Yeah. That's what happened.
...or is it?!
No, I'm just messing.
...or AM I!?

**Universal Mind** · 12-19-2012 06:51 PM

Two more days! (}:^O)-/-< What are your predictions now?

**Abra** · 12-19-2012 07:56 PM

I predict that on December the 21st, 2012, at 12:12 AM, 3 billion people will be exhaling. Not only that, but I predict another 3 billion people will be in the process of inhaling!

Let my predictive powers astound all.

**juroara** · 12-19-2012 07:58 PM

A lot of angry people

Mom thinks so many miserable people will be disappointed that their lives weren't magically fixed that day that they'll grab their closest gun and go crazy on us. She keeps telling me to be extra safe that day, just in case.

**mcwillis** · 12-19-2012 08:28 PM

You now have 4. Well, in my view this isn't a prediction but an ongoing process in motion.

http://www.dreamviews.com/f37/maitreya-thread-130575/

**Universal Mind** · 12-19-2012 08:32 PM

I predict that I am going to come to this thread and smart off on December 22, 2012.

**Xei** · 12-19-2012 10:30 PM

Is this in your media a lot or something?

Nobody seems to seriously care about this or register it in the UK.

Not many people are talking about it on DV either.