Thread: Lucid dreaming in non-REM sleep?

Well, technically, dreams can occur in any sleep stage. MOST dreams only occur in REM sleep. I think it is still possible to have dreams in non-rem sleep but they are probably going to be fuzzy, short, etc.

But I was saying that I'm having pretty long and intricate dreams in non-REM sleep. I was basically trying to find out if it's impossible to become lucid in non-REM.

I don't see why you couldn't become lucid in nREM dreams. It's just that usually you have much more dreams and they are of better quality in REM than nREM, that's why everybody is concentrating on REM. But if yours are great, there should be nothing stopping your from having nREM lucids. I think

What makes you think these dreams adre not happening in REM? You can technically remain aware through all stages of sleep, but nREM dreams are not what most people think of as "dreaming."

What makes me think they're not REM is because they are happening sometimes after WBTB or just before waking up. For one of them, I had the dream and as it finished up I woke up and went in the other room to instantly tell my mom about it.

None of what you saying is a condition that makes it to be a nREM. You can wake up at any time, before/during/after REM/nREM or any other stages that make up a sleep cycle.

Yeah but, after watching the NOVA episode on dreams it led me to the assumption that I was in one of the stages of non REM dreams. Or something.

Either way, a lot of my dreams have me believing that I'm actually doing whatever preposterous thing is occurring. Even though it's a situation I would most definitely question in waking life, I don't.

Lucid dreaming is a physiological and mental state which is demonstrably different from both REM, NREM and waking states. So although the lucid dreaming state is most likely to be triggered by a period of REM sleep, there is still a possibility that it can arise from NREM sleep - just like how lucid dreaming can be 'triggered' directly from waking in a WILD.

I once had four fantastic lucid dreams within the first hour of N-REM sleep.

Originally Posted by Extremador

What makes me think they're not REM is because they are happening sometimes after WBTB or just before waking up. For one of them, I had the dream and as it finished up I woke up and went in the other room to instantly tell my mom about it.

These are REM dreams, as the night progresses more of your sleep cycles are taken up by REM, in the morning you can slip in and out of sleep coming in and out of REM.

Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick

Lucid dreaming is a physiological and mental state which is demonstrably different from both REM, NREM and waking states. So although the lucid dreaming state is most likely to be triggered by a period of REM sleep, there is still a possibility that it can arise from NREM sleep - just like how lucid dreaming can be 'triggered' directly from waking in a WILD.

That basically answers my question!

It might be worth it to read around about nREM dreaming. Dreams outside of REM are not usually what we typically think of as dreams. If you learn to hold your awareness through all stages of sleep, you immediately become familiar with the different mental states associated with each. It is very interesting stuff. We tend to label and categorize things as "REM" or "HI," for convenience, but is pretty much a gigantic clusterf**k of confusion and messy thoughts.

For example, when people WILD, they often fall asleep earlier than they realize. They hover in the early stages of sleep, and only think they have actually fallen asleep when REM and dreaming kick in.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

It might be worth it to read around about nREM dreaming. Dreams outside of REM are not usually what we typically think of as dreams. If you learn to hold your awareness through all stages of sleep, you immediately become familiar with the different mental states associated with each. It is very interesting stuff. We tend to label and categorize things as "REM" or "HI," for convenience, but is pretty much a gigantic clusterf**k of confusion and messy thoughts.

For example, when people WILD, they often fall asleep earlier than they realize. They hover in the early stages of sleep, and only think they have actually fallen asleep when REM and dreaming kick in.

Being conscious during stage one is just damn chaotic, you can't really describe what you've experienced after you come out of it.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

Being conscious during stage one is just damn chaotic, you can't really describe what you've experienced after you come out of it.

And how does one achieve that?

Fall asleep while trying to remain conscious a lot of times. I've probably done a 100 WILD attempts over the past year and only been successful in a couple. I don't know if you've experienced this in your attempts, but you'll be lying there, your attention drifting, suddenly your attention snaps back to your body (maybe accompanied by a hypnic jerk) and you'll have a fleeting impression of some image or concept, or association, whatever. But you can't put your finger on exactly what it was. Recently I've spontaneously become lucid in these mini 'dreamlets' they're not what we would call conventional dreams, but they're a step on the path to completing a hypnagogia WILD.
I think the reason why WILD comes easily to some and not others is that some individuals have a predisposition for inducing SP, all the others just have to slowly but surely figure out how to fall asleep while retaining lucidity. For me it's been a long, slow but steady and organic process. Recently I've noticed all sorts of things are happening that I've never experienced before; like becoming staying lucid through stages 1 and 2, 'seeing through my closed eyelids' while snoozing in the morning, seeing entire scenes that I can't quite step into while snoozing in the morning.

I'm not quite there yet, but I feel so close.

Originally Posted by Extremador

What makes me think they're not REM is because they are happening sometimes after WBTB or just before waking up. For one of them, I had the dream and as it finished up I woke up and went in the other room to instantly tell my mom about it.

I still don't understand what makes you think you were in NONrem sleep. when you do the WBTB technique, you are initiating another stage of REM sleep because you are already around that stage after sleeping 4 to 6 hours. nonrem dreams are not what you call real dreams and they are completely chaotic and random. they are illogical and they are much harder to consciously stay aware of when falling a sleep. if you were talking about your first minuts upon falling a sleep then I could understand what you meant.

i think in the book, advanced lucid dreaming the power of supplements , it mentions becoming lucid in non-rem

The only way to be sure if you are in REM or nREM is to get hooked up to an EEG machine.
You can have episodes of REM at any stage, even during naps.
In most people there is a particular requirement for the brain chemistry to be just right in order to get into the REM state.

I've done some experimenting with the Zeo sleep mask. Now they claim about 70% comparison to a full EEG machine, and judging by what it says, I believe it is recording my dream status reasonably accurately.
I know this because it very often says I am in a period of REM just before I wake up after a dream.
I'm not saying that it's impossible to dream in the nREM states, in fact scientific research has shown that it is possible, it's just that it is much rarer than dreaming in the REM state.

The nREM states are states of brain activity that are much more subdued, whereas REM is almost the same as the awake state, in terms of the EEG trace.

It is most likely that if you wake just after a dream, even in the middle of the night (most people do, even if they don't realise), then you were in REM.