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    Thread: Age and Lucidity

    1. #176
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      Cool, lenscaper. If you do check into any of them, I hope some will resonate with you. Oh, that's interesting you mention Donald Hoffman. I haven't checked into him yet, but he was referred to in my reading and I put him on my list. So this just gives me more reason to go ahead and look him up. Also, thanks for the link. I'll check it out soon, hopefully, anyway.

      Oh, no kidding? Coincidentally I read that very same book on dream yoga back in November (also about five months ago) and bookmarked the very section you mentioned! I think I'll go back and have another look at it again and maybe try some of the practices. I like some of the distinctions made within that book for meditation and it has helped in that regard in my experience.

      It's very interesting to read about your experience with all of this. Thank you for sharing. And yes, you were brief, but you're welcome to expound more if you'd like. I'm glad to know you're breaking through barriers or layers. I typically don't have high-level lucids, at least compared to other accounts of lucids I've read. I'm planning to focus on tuning that up.

      And michael79, what I read about backflips I can quote. "Simply to do a back-flip when I realize I’m dreaming, with the intention of entering the void."
      She also says it can be entered through meditating during a lucid dream with the intent of entering the void. Say something like "When I open my eyes, I'll be in the void." She also writes that doors, pools of water, holes in the ground, and windows. Mirrors seem to be especially efficient portals. Or you can use a finger to trace and create a portal and then go through it with an intention to end up in the void, or wherever you want for that matter.

      P.S. Thanks for the Donald Hoffman link, lenscaper. I'm really looking forward to that one.
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    2. #177
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      Quote Originally Posted by lenscaper View Post
      My only experience with portals came during an early WBTB that turned into a period of void (sleep yoga?) After 30 minutes or so of dreamless sleep that was not quite sleep I emerged from a silvery opaque portal into the waking state. The portal was oval shaped and very real. I was not dreaming at the time.....or more specifically, I did not recall a dream upon awakening. I did not enter a portal in a lucid dream. I have tried to get back to that portal consciously with no success.
      By the void do you mean blackness state? Are you saying that your consciousness emerged from HI(like a big silver circle that you went through and woke up) portal?

    3. #178
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      Quote Originally Posted by zelcrow View Post

      "When I open my eyes, I'll be in the void." .
      Are we talking about the same void, the infinity blackness space which you are floating bodiless. If is this then I experience that void all the time, especially when my lucid dream fall apart.

    4. #179
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      Quote Originally Posted by michael79 View Post
      By the void do you mean blackness state?
      It was early in my training and I had been trying really hard to master WILD......spending very long periods of time in HI. These sessions were having mixed results. I remember this as a very strong session. By that I mean that I was able to put my body to sleep while staying very awake and aware. After a very long time the HI just stopped coming and I slipped into a blackness that was not quite sleep. This was the first time that happened.


      Are you saying that your consciousness emerged from HI(like a big silver circle that you went through and woke up) portal?
      That's pretty much exactly what happened. Except it was not like emerging from HI......the HI had stopped before I drifted into this state. It was more like emerging from a deep peaceful void.

      The portal was more oval shaped and very well defined. It was an opaque silvery color. I was laying on my back in the bed but the emergence was a physical thing.......I felt as if my body had passed through it.....or more like I had tumbled out of it. I could see the portal as I emerged and just after. It was in the air to the left of my head. I awoke feeling incredibly refreshed and exhilarated.

      I have been in this void a number of times since but I have not experienced that kind of passage again.

      Quite often these days the HI will stop....as if I have run out of imagery or run out of dreams. When that happens and I am able to stay awake a bit longer I generally end up in this void.
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    5. #180
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      Quote Originally Posted by michael79 View Post
      Are we talking about the same void, the infinity blackness space which you are floating bodiless. If is this then I experience that void all the time, especially when my lucid dream fall apart.
      Yes, that sounds very much like the void described. Do you enjoy being in the void? In Buddhism, it is called the "radiant womb of emptiness." I have only experienced this for brief times before awakening from LDs. It seems there's a lot within this state. Clare Johnson wrote that when she first started experiencing this it was boring until she realized it was a thought-responsive environment, like an LD. Her account of creating music starting with a violin and adding more and more instruments on top of it is pretty interesting. But more than that, it seems as though you can use this state, the void, through intent to be able to have nondual experiences, or glimpse consciousness before conceptualizing occurs. It's purported that your sense of self can be found here, but also easily let go and dissolved.

      For how long do you find yourself in this state after your LDs fall apart, michael79? Also, have you had any interesting experiences while in the void?
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      Thanks, your explanation totally makes everything clear, we are very similar in our approach, I'm also doing all kind of weird experiments all the time. My portals are also oval, but tend to differ in color, blue or red or yellow. Going through them and come out of them is a profound experience. If you ever run out of HI you can try only the long cycles of SSILD, repeating them several times, HI always appear for me.

      If you didn't try power naps yet, I highly recommend doing them, especially at evening they work the best. I found that when doing some visualizations, I must keep my focus very stable and my heart pulse low, only then I can go deeper. It's different than wild, I keep my focus one step away from the dream and I go in between states, half-asleep half-awake, in that state a lot of interesting stuff happens. You can also try expand/translate your consciousness into deep sleep first thing at night, it can be bad timing for lucid dreams, but it is very good timing for other kind of experiences.

    7. #182
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      Quote Originally Posted by michael79 View Post
      If you ever run out of HI you can try only the long cycles of SSILD, repeating them several times, HI always appear for me.
      I agree about SSILD bringing HI every time. I have been working a lot with that liminal (bardo) space between the two states and SSILD is always a great place to start. I go through cycles until I get HI and then stay with the HI.

      One interesting thing about that is that on nights where I have had many dreams with very strong recall HI is still sometimes hard to come by in that last cycle. Tenzin Wangyal speaks of karmic traces as the seeds of dreams and I wonder how that translates into HI as well. By extension, I wonder if after many clear dream images the well, as it is, can run dry for a while.
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      Into The Void

      The dreams have come and gone in the night. I have captured them on paper and then I have let them go. For the last period of time I have sat on the couch in the dark studio draining all thoughts, all emotions.....everything. With my breath I have accessed Muladhara, the storehouse of dreams, or so I have heard, and now, as I sit in the dark, hypnagogic imagery is flooding my vision. Waves of yellow and purple light wash over me as I rise from the couch and move back to the bed.

      It is still dark outside my bedroom and I am fully awake. Lying on my back I watch the lights coalesce into shapes as I let my body slowly drift into sleep. I reach out to the world around me and begin to draw in energy......it collapses in on me in a visceral rush, collecting at my center and causing my body to tremble uncontrollably. I ride those waves of energy until they subside and then I release that energy from within in an explosion of light that fills my body. The hypnagogia is gone now, replaced by a firmament of stars as I let the light within dissolve my body into emptiness.

      I become a luminous being. The stars that had surrounded me fade. There are no dreams.....so hypnagogic dream images......no thoughts. There is nothing left to reflect my luminosity. The clear light of Turiya, that Fourth level of consciousness, has nothing left to illuminate. There is now only a deep, endless perfect blackness that is filled with clear light that now falls on nothing.
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      Good work lenscaper, when I was five that was my favourite exercise, lying on my back with closed eyes in a dark room, watching the tiny fireworks from phosphene's behind my closed eyelids, until only darkness remain. I can do that now even in very bright room and when I stop seeing the light of phosphenes and everything turns completely black with clear transition, then I know I no longer see with my physical eyes, the real show begin then.
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    10. #185
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      Quote Originally Posted by zelcrow View Post
      Yes, that sounds very much like the void described. Do you enjoy being in the void? In Buddhism, it is called the "radiant womb of emptiness." I have only experienced this for brief times before awakening from LDs. It seems there's a lot within this state. Clare Johnson wrote that when she first started experiencing this it was boring until she realized it was a thought-responsive environment, like an LD. Her account of creating music starting with a violin and adding more and more instruments on top of it is pretty interesting. But more than that, it seems as though you can use this state, the void, through intent to be able to have nondual experiences, or glimpse consciousness before conceptualizing occurs. It's purported that your sense of self can be found here, but also easily let go and dissolved.

      For how long do you find yourself in this state after your LDs fall apart, michael79? Also, have you had any interesting experiences while in the void?
      I also finding it kind of boring to stay just in the void, but I also found it's thought related. The times not targeting lucid dreams purposely, I do Image Streaming and for direct line of communication with DC's and other supernatural activities that doesn't have a big ground around here. The Image streaming is thought based highly detailed series of images, I thought a word "volcano, green scenery, Past, Future, Space" and the void starting show me series of well crafted images in a slide show, frankly I wanted to be an artist and to be able to paint what I see, because I have a lot of materials so far, that are hard to be described in words. I also found that can show me parts of books with unknown origin, but requires a immersive focus to stay on a single page without changing, my line of thoughts must be steady as a water surface and my hearth pulse low as possible or everything just fall apart. Full conversations with DC's follow the same rules. Of course it can develope in full motion hallucination while still awake, like very deep meditation.

      After LD fall apart and I found myself in the void, I always try DEILD. Conversations with death people which still remain on this level and full blown lucid hallucinations, are they count as interesting experiences.
      Last edited by michael79; 03-08-2020 at 02:17 AM.

    11. #186
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      Hi Lenscaper! How is your practice evolving? Miss seeing you around here.

    12. #187
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      18 Months In......

      Hey fogelbise....thanks for the shout out. I kind of got the message that perhaps I was saying too much and not listening enough for a newbie.....so I backed off to do more listening.

      I still practice diligently day and night and I have turned a few more corners.....multiple clear dreams every night with true lucidity once a week or so. I have developed a protocol that lets me get good restorative sleep early followed by strong dreams toward morning. My successes have come from a willingness to explore a few paths that are not in EWOLD and from being absolutely committed to the practice.

      This path has changed my life for the better.
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      Quote Originally Posted by lenscaper View Post
      Hey fogelbise....thanks for the shout out. I kind of got the message that perhaps I was saying too much and not listening enough for a newbie.....so I backed off to do more listening.
      I hope no member here made you feel that way! It is only through the help of both new and older serious practitioners that a forum like this will continue to be a place to come and discuss things for many years. I have not been visiting enough, but I hope to change that and hope others will too.

      That is great to hear that you are keeping up your practice and that the practice has had such a positive influence on you! This feedback helps all who look at it, with the right mindset.

      I look forward to more updates

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      So...here is what I have been up to.....

      I have been working hard on my somewhat personalized approach to lucid dreaming that involves a luminous dream body. Here, briefly, is how that works:

      While in a meditative state, perhaps after a WBTB, reach out to the environment and invite in the underlying essence of energy that is a part of everything. Feel it. Bring it in to your center and hold it there before releasing it into your body as an explosion of light. Let that light dissolve your body. Form becomes formless as you merge completely with that underlying essence. Flow through that which flows through you.

      In time, let that primordial essence, which you are now one with, coalesce back into form. Feel the luminous body forming within your physical body. For me that feels almost like a gentle reverberation. Let the luminous body separate gently from your physical body in a totally non-dual manner......and inseparable separation. Feel your luminous arms moving as your physical body drifts toward sleep. This is a good time for a little FILD practice.

      Just before sleep takes you, transfer your consciousness into the luminous dream body. Let that body become your dream. The luminous images of your dream are just a projection of your own dream body.

      ********

      Last night I had seven clear dreams. The last three were strikingly lucid and the last of those three was very powerful:

      I am standing on a rocky mountain peak. It is dark but I can see other mountain peaks very close. Incredibly dark clouds are just above me with tendrils of black snaking down toward me. I am calm because I know I am dreaming. I look to the north and there between the peaks an even darker and lower cloud is rolling toward me. I watch it approach. Then I turn to the east where, far in the distance the bright and clear light of the rising sun is poking through just on the horizon. I get down on one knee and look to the light........and wake up.

      Just sharing.

      I hope all is well with all of you. I had my dance with COVID and came out the other side.
      The more I gaze....the more I crave to see

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      Wow, you got covid and probably have the antibodies and hopefully a level of protection.

      I wondered if I could have had a case with more mild symptoms around February when it wasn't on my radar but I really have no idea...no tests done. I was a little worried I had something else at the time.

      Thanks for sharing more of your personalized approach to LDing.

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      Quote Originally Posted by fogelbise View Post
      Wow, you got covid and probably have the antibodies and hopefully a level of protection.

      I wondered if I could have had a case with more mild symptoms around February when it wasn't on my radar but I really have no idea...no tests done. I was a little worried I had something else at the time.
      Yes, but we'll see about the antibodies. You may well have had it, especially if you were around anybody who may have been exposed.

      I was exposed to family members who traveled from Italy just before their lockdown and were not interested in self-quarantining. They are young and strong and never got sick. I knew I had to watch for it due to my long relationship with Lyme disease so I immediately took myself out of the workplace and set my office up here in my music studio.....where I remain.

      A week later I was showing classic symptoms of mild COVID. The physical symptoms lasted less than three weeks. Testing was not easy to come by at that time so I just hunkered down and rode it out. The odd thing about this malaise is how it affected me psychologically. I felt as if I had been taken apart in some way and needed to reassemble myself. Being is isolation, I have used that time to strengthen myself spiritually...which has had a very strong ancillary effect on my lucid dreaming. I have taken up the practice of Shamatha/Vipashyana meditation and daily sunrise walks in the nearby nature center have steeped me in Shinrin-yoku (Forest Bathing). There has been a lot of time for study as well.

      I feel as though I am building a strong lucid foundation one well-fitted block at a time.

      Again....health and strength to all.
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      A happy ending for sure!

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      How Hard Can This Be?

      After 18 months of daily and nightly practice where I have immersed myself completely in the soup of conscious awareness and lucid dreaming, I have only now just had my first hour long fully lucid dream where I was able to do all of the things we read about here in these pages.

      I walked through walls and flew up through ceilings from one dream scene to another. I spun around to change scenes and remain lucid and stuck my finger through my palm. I dissolved unwanted dream characters and faced down angry ones with a smile before doing so. I finally woke up when I tried hard to close my eyes and meditate.....I could not do that.

      In these 18 months I have tasted the chocolate many times through dozens of short but amazing lucid events but I have now had the entire bar of chocolate and it was delicious.

      18 months of unflagging persistence.

      Those of you reading this who have been on this path for years may be chuckling a bit or cracking a knowing smile.......but for others of you who may be just starting out on this path I am here to say that this is not easy, but you absolutely can succeed at it if you never, ever give up.

      Sleep well....and dream.
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      When you next stand at cliff's edge....will you finally learn to fly?

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      Brilliant, you are a real inspiration! I have re-(re-re-re-) started my own practice and hope to achieve these results in my own practice (or sooner if possible!).

      I've never had an hour-long high lucidity dream. I estimate my longest LD was somewhere 20-40 minutes long but was fairly low awareness. This is a really significant milestone, and am sure you will achieve ever better results. And you know the recipe: never ever ever give up, keep the fire burning hot, practice every day and night!

      Congrats again!
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    20. #195
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      Congrats Lenscaper! That is inspiration for us all!
      I've been away from here for a while, but just getting back in.
      However, your practice, as you describe in this thread from May, seems to be very esoteric :-) Not sure I quite understand it - sounds almost trippy.

      I have reached a bit of an empasse with my LD practice, but that's probably my own fault. I seem to have at least two quite vivid, but usually ordinary dreams each night that I recall quite well, and have kept up with my DJ, but I have only had two short LDs this year. I'm looking to change something (not expecting a quick fix - I've been doing this 8+ years now!).

      I do have numerous "that doesn't seem quite right" thoughts during my non-lucids, but just can't seem to break through.
      I've had numerous WILD attempts with no real success (did have on several years ago, but too much loss of sleep!).

      Maybe I'll try exploring the WBTB/WILD method again in a similar way that you have.
      Last edited by Goldenspark; 09-07-2020 at 01:58 PM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Goldenspark View Post
      your practice, as you describe in this thread from May, seems to be very esoteric :-) Not sure I quite understand it - sounds almost trippy.
      Thanks for checking this out and for your support and comments, Goldenspark.

      I admit that much of what I have done and posted above is quite esoteric. I have just been letting myself go in whatever direction the experiences open up for me, all the while keeping the tried and true LD protocols in sight. Sometimes this has led me into strange territory for sure but, as I mentioned, I have definitely been tasting the chocolate along the way.

      Now I am somewhat stumbling down a more specific path as handed down for centuries for I have discovered the Six Yogas of Naropa. These Tibetan tantric yoga protocols use dream yoga as one part of a cohesive program for spiritual improvement. Within the Dream Yoga protocol, as I am seeing it, Lucid Dreaming becomes a prerequisite. Interestingly enough, I have found that much of the odd personalized stuff that I have been doing is mirrored in these Six Yogas, specifically, the first and foundational one called The Yoga of Inner Heat.

      I think that is why the floodgates seem to have opened for me now.

      Maybe I'll try exploring the WBTB/WILD method again in a similar way that you have.
      I have definitely found that I have my strongest lucidity in the dream when I can enter the dream bringing with me lucidity from the waking state. Specific nocturnal meditation during a WBTB has become a very powerful tool.
      The more I gaze....the more I crave to see

      When you next stand at cliff's edge....will you finally learn to fly?

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      Interesting Lenscaper.
      I guess what ever works is fine, but do you think maybe expectation has a lot to do with your success? Nothing wrong with that of course, but because the experience is very unique to you, it might not work for others, and probably not generally?
      That's where I think the psychology is probably very important. With you it sounds like you have a self-fulfilling prophesy, i.e. it works because you believe it does, but the belief is reasonable because.... it really DOES work! I can see how negative schemas could do the opposite (I can't do this, so you won't be able to!).

      Hopefully your success and that of others can help in that turn-around for me.

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      Those are very good points, Goldenspark. I truly think that intention to succeed paves a strong road to success.....and I did set a strong intention to succeed early on.

      I'm not so sure how much of that was psychological in nature, however. I think, instead, that through persistent trial and error that began to yield very concrete results I found myself arriving at some time tested methodologies albeit from some not so time tested perspectives. I feel a bit as if I have been hacking my way through the dense forest and have suddenly come across a well paved road that's headed in the same direction.

      For example......my very odd method of drawing in energies from outside to create an explosion of light within absolutely resulted in some spectacular lucidity. I stuck with that, even though I was never able to stabilize it. That odd method mirrors almost exactly what I am now learning about the centuries old Tibetan yoga protocol of using internal (and external) energy to ignite the heat in the central channel and energize the subtle energy body. That energy body becomes the dream body. Following their preparation protocols has resulted in a much more stable lucid experience.....and one that seems (so far) to be repeatable.

      I appreciate this discussion and I hope to hear more of your perspectives on this.
      Lang likes this.
      The more I gaze....the more I crave to see

      When you next stand at cliff's edge....will you finally learn to fly?

    24. #199
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      Lenscaper, congratulation on reaching your first big milestone Keep going with the good work, I'm sure that soon enough you gonna have 3-4 hour long lucid dreams

      And who knows maybe even an AP
      Last edited by michael79; 09-07-2020 at 09:38 PM.

    25. #200
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      Quote Originally Posted by michael79 View Post
      Lenscaper, congratulation on reaching your first big milestone Keep going with the good work, I'm sure that soon enough you gonna have 3-4 hour long lucid dreams

      And who knows maybe even an AP
      Hey michael79 ....chuckling at that. Actually the texts that I am working on all call for the mastery of clear light sleep before Dream Yoga (LD). My routine these days is 5 or 6 hours of good sleep with passive dreaming. When I get that right it leaves with the last sleep cycle for noctural meditation and lucid dreaming.....that's just right for an old guy who needs his sleep. In fact, good restful sleep is crucial for strong lucid dreaming, imo.

      As for AP.......I have been out of this old body three strong times in the last few months. It seems that the subtle energy body can be separated (inseparably} from the physical body.

      You can't make this stuff up....at least I can't.

      Thanks for your support!
      michael79 likes this.
      The more I gaze....the more I crave to see

      When you next stand at cliff's edge....will you finally learn to fly?

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