Blue Cheese Experiment

[Hilary]

My friend sent me a text linking to an article about this cheese that apparently causes dreams to be more vivid, bizarre, and even lucid. After doing some more research, I was intrigued. The cheese is called "Blue Stinton", and the theory is that it may be mildy psychoactive due to the naturally occurring strains of bacteria. So... I figured, why not get some and try it out? Turns out it's really expensive. So, my plan is to maybe not get Blue Stinton, but I will try out some other varieties of blue cheeses in the middle of the night and see if they have an effect. If anyone else has an experience with this cheese (or other cheeses) and vivid recall / lucidity, please share!

[DarkestDarkness]

Unfortunately most non-standard cheeses end up being quite expensive, even the milder ones. Anyway, where I grew up, the hearsay was that having any cheese before bed gave you nightmares. Needless to say, I tried a few times and with different cheeses and I can't recall anything remarkable ever happening, but on the other hand, I wasn't exactly studious about it and I just liked eating cheese anyway. Perhaps people did get nightmares from eating cheese because they expected it, since they would also have grown up with this hearsay... While I think this remains an anecdotal topic with little research done into it, I can however point you, initially, to a book titled "Drugs of the Dreaming". Under the Bromato-Oneirogenica (roughly "Dream Foods") cheese is mentioned, including a study by the British Cheese Board which claimed that "(...) eating cheese before bed will not only aid a good night's sleep but also different cheeses will, in fact, cause various types of dreams." The chapter on dream foods is understandably short, but still worth reading. Ironically, the footnote reference to this paragraph is circular by mention of "www.dreamviews.com", and I cannot determine which thread would be the most relevant to this reference. As far as I can tell, the British Cheese Board is currently found at milk.co.uk and no longer hosts anything with relation to this study in particular there, and as far as I can tell they had a different address at one point (based on what I found on other older webpages, see below too). In any case, it's also worth mentioning that in this chapter "(...) one must realize that most of the evidence comes from anecdotal reports, in many cases poorly referenced." Some further reading here on DV: https://www.dreamviews.com/research/...nes-dream.html https://www.dreamviews.com/lucid-aid...cid-dream.html https://www.dreamviews.com/attaining...-dreaming.html Further reading elsewhere: https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia/c..._cheese_board/ https://web.archive.org/web/20060115...fm?page_id=240 (Archived version of this supposed British Cheese Board study, which I can't find elsewhere, otherwise) Edit: By the way MoonageDaydream, could you edit in the link to the article your friend sent you? Might be good to have visible for others to check it out too. And I think it will have been "Stilton" that you meant?

[Hilary]

Thanks for all of the links! My friend sent the article as a text link on my phone, and I couldn't actually open the article fully without installing an app. So, I just peaked at it through the translucent ad and then went and looked up stuff on my own. Of course, what I'm seeing is probably the same thing you're seeing. It's not really very scientific, but they did some study on people and cheese eaten before bed. I did browse through our forums and reddit and found some interesting anecdotal evidence that support Stilton having some kind of effect. My idea is to eat the cheese in the middle of the night, in combination with WBTB, rather than before bed. I bought three types, though none Stilton. Publix Gorgonzola (imported from Italy) Publix Blue Cheese (imported from Denmark) Castello Double Creme Blue (USA) It will be interesting to see, and of course, we can't rule out expectation and the placebo effect. I will journal my experiences.

[LD7]

Hi, I live in the UK and love Stilton. It's cheap as chips over here. Have regularly eaten it before bed but with no noticeable change in dreams. Will try again and update you if I find anything.

[Hilary]

Hi, I live in the UK and love Stilton. It's cheap as chips over here. Have regularly eaten it before bed but with no noticeable change in dreams. Will try again and update you if I find anything. Thanks for your input, and although it's not the result I would hope for, it may be the truth. I will still test it out and see if anything happens for me, as you never know. The study said something like 80% of participants reported vivid and/or bizarre dreams after eating Stilton. But it's just one study, and even still, 20% of participants reported nothing noticeable. Also, I think it's key to treat Stilton like any other dreaming supplement - consume in the middle of the night, even if the study participants did not do this. I say this because I've experimented with galantamine, and have found that before bed does nothing for me. In the middle of the night, however, magic happens. I wanted to try one of the blue cheeses last night, but I had a bad allergic reaction and had to take Zyrtec (antihistamine), which also affects my sleep (knocks me out all night plus some). I figured it would not be accurate to try it out on a night that I am medicated.

[devotee013]

If anyone else has an experience with this cheese (or other cheeses) and vivid recall / lucidity, please share! [/QUOTE] FYI: I have been trying since NOV 21 ... still no LD Form waht I have read online Playing Computer Video Games Will certainly give you Vivid Dreams. Since the past 1 week I have been playing computer games and Every night I dream about playing video games. Only thing is Firstly you need a computer with good internet so that you can download games and play them. Plus if you want to play Hi-Graphics games then you need a video card. So what are you waiting for ? Give this a TRY....

[Summerlander]

Cheddar can be quite rich in tryptophan, which helps the body synthesise tryptamines like serotonin, melatonin and, well, most likely endogenous DMT which theoretically plays an important role in dreaming.

[DarkestDarkness]

Thanks for your input, and although it's not the result I would hope for, it may be the truth. I will still test it out and see if anything happens for me, as you never know. The study said something like 80% of participants reported vivid and/or bizarre dreams after eating Stilton. But it's just one study, and even still, 20% of participants reported nothing noticeable. Yeah, the sample size is pretty small and also quite restricted in terms of geography (a single country at best). We also don't know how well controlled this study was. If a full version of the study with (an abstract and so on) were available somewhere, I'd like to read it, though as it is, I haven't been able to find any full version of the study - the (short) archived article I already linked before is the only online evidence I can find of the study and which I would also argue not to be impartial, especially based on a statement near the end of the webpage: The British Cheese Board aims to increase consumption of cheese in the UK, and British cheese in particular. With a reminder that the study was also stated as having been carried out by the British Cheese Board. So this sounds like a conflict of interest, to me... Now, the other thing is we also don't know if there would be any confirmation bias or similar effect at work, since there's virtually no detail about study controls; without detail we can only be left to wonder, and as such, isn't it possible that researchers engaged in conversation with subjects of the study, where some expectation was transferred from researcher->subject? Granted, that would depend on how much interaction there was, anyway. Ideally, apart from anecdotal evidence of those who dabble in this by themselves, with regards to research the best thing could be to try and find other studies on this topic; perhaps more importantly finding peer-reviews of said studies if they exist, too. Incidentally I have also not yet been able to find any peer-reviews or commentaries on that British Cheese Board study. In the article, a Director of Sleep Research of the University of Surrey, Neil Stanley, is mentioned to have made commentary on the study, but I cannot find any sources for this and it's not clear whether this would be "scholarly" commentary or not. After some more looking on my part, I have also found the following (source linked below the quote, bold emphasis mine): We also found evidence of a single, industry-sponsored laboratory study on the effects of food on dreaming (British Cheese Board, 2005). In 2005, the British Cheese Board conducted a study with 200 volunteers on the effects of eating cheese on dreams. The study purportedly found no evidence for the notion that eating cheese prior to sleep can induce nightmares, but did find evidence that different types of cheese can induce different types of dreams—for example, eating Stilton cheese often led to crazy or vivid dreams while eating cheddar cheese often led to dreams of celebrities. But although the results were widely reported in the media [e.g., “Sweet dreams are made of cheese,” Anonymous (Daily Mail), 2005], they were never published in a peer-reviewed journal, and the available information about the study is extremely sparse. (https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...015.00047/full) Incidentally, this article should also be worth reading anyway for those interested in food-related research regarding dreaming in general. It also references a number of articles that may or may not be of interest for those who like to read about dream-related research in general.

[IndigoRose]

Being in the UK, I eat Stilton quite a lot (but not that much, blue cheese isn't my favourite) and sometimes before bed. I guess I would need to it much more of it no notice any effect.

[Hilary]

I agree the study is probably biased and it's not the most scientific thing ever. However, this thread is more for fun and to just see what happens. Nothing has to happen, but if you're interested like me, feel free to post your observations.

[Sivason]

Being in the UK, I eat Stilton quite a lot (but not that much, blue cheese isn't my favourite) and sometimes before bed. I guess I would need to it much more of it no notice any effect. Is Stilton just a brand name?

[IndigoRose]

Is Stilton just a brand name? No, it's a type of cheese. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stilton_cheese

[Hilary]

Well. I tried some blue cheese last night around 4am, just Publix brand blue cheese. IT TASTES HORRIBLE. I could barely get two mouthfuls down. That's all I could do. Result? Well, I did have very vivid dreams, but, that's not unusual for me. No lucids. --------------- Adding: No, it's a type of cheese. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stilton_cheese I wanted to point out this other link, which I got from exploring Indigo's link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penicillium_roqueforti The fungus strain used in Stilton is the same species used in many other blue cheeses, including Gorgonzola. So, in theory, if there are any effects, they should be similar in any blue cheeses that use this fungus. Although they may have varying amounts.

[DarkestDarkness]

Yeah, most blue cheeses and such can be an acquired taste. This goes for anyone who also finds them difficult to eat, but if you still want to try them for this experiment for a while, you might be able to make them more palatable by making some kind of homemade pizza or other typical cheesy food with them, you can then leave this food to cool and have as a midnight snack type of thing, though you might try making something small at first to see how the flavour changes from having it cooked; although on their own they're quite strong, they often complement things better in those situations where the cheese gets molten. Also an excuse to prepare a snack for the in-between sleep periods, if you ever get peckish at those times... Spoiler for Might put someone off from eating cheese: Also, such micro-organisms which are present in some of these cheeses are also found on some parts of our bodies, like our feet in particular, which is probably why these strong cheeses are sometimes likened to having a foot-like odour. I can think of at least a few cheeses that people in my family enjoy, which feel overpowering to even be near. But the presence of these micro-organisms is why cheeses that are left for a even a few days can change in flavour and eventually start to get stuff growing on them.

[Sivason]

I love blue cheese, but you are right, she should melt it in a sandwich or something like that.

[Hilary]

I love blue cheese, but you are right, she should melt it in a sandwich or something like that. LOL. Nah. I'm not really a foodie. I'm going to just man up and take a few bites in the middle of the night again. Besides.. I'm keto and I'm never hungry in the middle of the night. But thank you the suggestions! I have to try again. I've been ... avoiding it.

[Hilary]

Update: So last night I did eat a lot of blue cheese before going to bed, and then a couple more bites of Gorgonzola cheese in the middle of the night during a WBTB. Results: I recalled 3 vivid dreams. No lucidity. Tonight I have eaten more Gorgonzola. Will attempt another midnight snack, but, as there is work tomorrow I won't be doing a very long WBTB.

[FryingMan]

My experience with almost all supplements supposedly for dreaming is that maybe once or twice they have some effect, but almost never anything regular or long-term. The exception is seriously nootropic/hallucinogens like wormwood and galantamine which absolutely affect brain function. I think that for most "regular" people who don't normally recall dreams or have vivid dreams, supplementing with almost anything out of the ordinary which changes digestive patterns can affect the sleep cycles and so produce changes in dreaming. Another exception would be for people who are deficient in nutrients that are important for good sleep/dreaming (e.g., tryptophan), supplementing in those areas can help. But for people who already regularly recall dreams and have long/vivid dreams, (at least for me), they do not seem to provide any boost.

[Hilary]

My experience with almost all supplements supposedly for dreaming is that maybe once or twice they have some effect, but almost never anything regular or long-term. The exception is seriously nootropic/hallucinogens like wormwood and galantamine which absolutely affect brain function. I think that for most "regular" people who don't normally recall dreams or have vivid dreams, supplementing with almost anything out of the ordinary which changes digestive patterns can affect the sleep cycles and so produce changes in dreaming. Another exception would be for people who are deficient in nutrients that are important for good sleep/dreaming (e.g., tryptophan), supplementing in those areas can help. But for people who already regularly recall dreams and have long/vivid dreams, (at least for me), they do not seem to provide any boost. It's hard to say for sure. These things can be subtle. Even a powerhouse like vitamin B6, only has a noticeable effect when I haven't taken it in a long time. Otherwise, it's hard to notice the difference. And yet, I know there is one. So basically I agree, but, with the idea that there may be influences, but it may be hard to tell, and especially hard to measure.

[Sivason]

My experience with almost all supplements supposedly for dreaming is that maybe once or twice they have some effect, but almost never anything regular or long-term. The exception is seriously nootropic/hallucinogens like wormwood and galantamine which absolutely affect brain function. I think that for most "regular" people who don't normally recall dreams or have vivid dreams, supplementing with almost anything out of the ordinary which changes digestive patterns can affect the sleep cycles and so produce changes in dreaming. Another exception would be for people who are deficient in nutrients that are important for good sleep/dreaming (e.g., tryptophan), supplementing in those areas can help. But for people who already regularly recall dreams and have long/vivid dreams, (at least for me), they do not seem to provide any boost. I agree. Ido not use any sort of supplement. I can give an example of exactly what you are saying from the world of pharmacy. The drug Welbutrin causes weird vivid dreams when someone starts it. This is a powerful drug that alters how the brain works. However, this effect goes away in about two weeks.

[FryingMan]

It's hard to say for sure. These things can be subtle. Even a powerhouse like vitamin B6, only has a noticeable effect when I haven't taken it in a long time. Otherwise, it's hard to notice the difference. And yet, I know there is one. So basically I agree, but, with the idea that there may be influences, but it may be hard to tell, and especially hard to measure. Yes, it's really hard to say anything for sure, other than the powerhouse supplements which pretty much everybody agrees on (galantamine). I've had some nights where 3 mg of melatonin (generally my max dosage, usually I take only 1 or 2mg, just when I need to readjust my sleep schedule) puts me on a wild ride all night long, and others where it does pretty much nothing. Sometimes I'll try b6, but at night time the higher doses (up to 100mg) just really wire me wide awake, and I need to avoid that at all costs, so I've stopped taking it

[Hilary]

Yes, it's really hard to say anything for sure, other than the powerhouse supplements which pretty much everybody agrees on (galantamine). I've had some nights where 3 mg of melatonin (generally my max dosage, usually I take only 1 or 2mg, just when I need to readjust my sleep schedule) puts me on a wild ride all night long, and others where it does pretty much nothing. Sometimes I'll try b6, but at night time the higher doses (up to 100mg) just really wire me wide awake, and I need to avoid that at all costs, so I've stopped taking it Hear you. I take 12.5 mg when I take it at all.

[MadMonkey]

Just a few days after reading this thread a friend coincidentally mentioned that Trader Joe's has good blue stilton so I bought some on my most recent visit. It actually tastes really good on it's own! I'll let y'all know if there are noticable increases in my vividness or lucidity.

[MadMonkey]

I actually did get a lucid this morning! My dream journaling habits aren't that great right now so I forgot the details unfortunately. I ate my stilton right before bed at 11:00 PM along with some kimchi since I was craving that too. I did a WBTB at 5:30 and took b vitamin complex, alpha gpc, lecithin, and fish oil. The next sleep cycle I got a long DILD.

[Hilary]

I actually did get a lucid this morning! My dream journaling habits aren't that great right now so I forgot the details unfortunately. I ate my stilton right before bed at 11:00 PM along with some kimchi since I was craving that too. I did a WBTB at 5:30 and took b vitamin complex, alpha gpc, lecithin, and fish oil. The next sleep cycle I got a long DILD. Alpha GPC might have something to do with that