• Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




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    Thread: Dream State Self Defense

    1. #1
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      Dream State Self Defense

      I wandered in here out of curiosity as to whether or not there is anyone else here that has had experiences close to mine. I've had out of body experiences my entire life. I never had to use any techniques or "learn" how to do it. I've also been a sensitive and had a very broad spectrum of paranormal experiences. Presumably, those who believe in OBEs and the multiple phases & dimensions of existence also recognize that these "other" realms have their own environmental features including inhabitants & threats. I read a couple of threads that asserted that the paralysis terror experience is false in that it is simply normal fear associated with an unfamiliar experience. I believe that, in the interest of avoiding a serious disservice to readers (potentially putting them in harms way) these posts should be modified to disclose that, while sometimes they may be this simple fear of the unknown.... these experiences are not always benign. I can testify that negative entities can sometimes take advantage of this 'between state' and can apparently induce or prolong this paralysis. A person can fight back but it is very difficult, and takes practice.
      In reading forums like this, I see a lot of teaching about achieving astral projection experiences (which are very close to lucid dreaming experiences- and are often, in essence, a simultaneous experience), but I don't see enough about self-protection in an experience that is fraught with peril. This is like encourage people to hike out into the jungle without first educating them about the dangers that exist there. I have also read about the ritualistic things that people can to do here, in the physical world, that will supposedly protect them from being "overshadowed", "possessed", or otherwise accosted, but these concepts do not really address learning about and mastering techniques that person can use for self-defense while IN the spiritual realm. As a consequence, I've been having to learn this on my own... more or less the "hard" way, that is... through trial and error. Fortunately, I have learned a good amount... and am gaining some genuine ability..... but, ultimately, I would be interested in comparing notes with someone else who seriously knows what I am talking about.... and has experienced it first hand. Take my word for it.... dark creatures are real... up to and including demons of varying strength & intensity, and with varying ability to affect the physical world. In the physical world, the energy that we are able to generate with our physical bodies gives us an advantage, but in the astral world (if we call it that) THEY have the advantage... just as sharks do in the ocean. In that realm... their power is much stronger. Anyway... I know this from decades of first hand, real experience. For those who might doubt... certain kinds of physical manifestations... and certain kinds of very lucid experiences.... leave no room for uncertainty.... that these kinds of things are not always figments of a person's imagination.... though (obviously) this does not mean that "some" experiences by some people can't be figments of their imagination. In short, as I indicated, I'd be interested in comparing notes with others that have experienced what I am talking about.... and know it to be real, because it seems to me.... that we should be spending a little more time talking about how to navigate the dangers once we get there.... than simply on the techniques for getting there.
      Last edited by Transponder; 01-10-2018 at 06:00 PM.
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      Scary stuff, isn't it? On the plus side you can always return to your body and end the experience.
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      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

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      I understand that you're a moderator, but feel the need to respond anyway. Yes..... it can be scary, but it can also be a perfect learning ground. I've observed that when confronted with a dark entity (and I can tell the difference) an incredibly debilitating fear can take over the experience, but I've detected a sense that this fear does not always originate within our own minds.... that this "feeling" of terror can somehow be projected upon us (or triggered within us) by the confronting entity, and that this fear can be so dominating that it is difficult to focus enough to effectively invoke the kind of spiritual affirmations that can neutralize the threat (no doubt by design). I've discovered that (consistent with standard spiritual energy manipulation mechanics) it isn't enough to speak the words, or even to think the thoughts. Reciting a spiritual mantra sometimes has no effect or benefit. I've learned that this is because the true power does not come from the words or thoughts.... it comes from the creation of the vibration within our center. We THINK its the words and thoughts, because in our waking state.... words and thoughts can often trigger the creation of the vibration within our center.... but when in the other realm.... if our center is overwhelmed by fear.... standard words and thoughts are not enough to neutralize the controlling negative experience and replace it with the positive one. I've learned that it takes a more focused concentration on one's actual center. It's seriously hard in the face of induced terror.... but that is the nature of a learned discipline, and I am getting better. I am no longer terrified of being terrified. I am confident that I can survive... and that I can defend myself.... and so, when in the state of terror.... I don't automatically try to flee. I take advantage of the opportunity to stand my ground... to face my attacker... and to gradually learn how to reassert control over my own frequency manifestations. I'm not sure you recognize the severity of what I am describing. I can feel physical contacts... sometimes in the form of gripping "hands". I have been able to muster enough focus to reach out and grab the entity myself, and to look directly into its face. Sometimes I then "pop" awake.... and sometimes the entity, itself, vanishes. The "point" of all of this.... is that I feel like I have stumbled upon a kind of self-defense "learning process".... that should be a topic of general conversation.... if others are to benefit.
      Last edited by Transponder; 01-11-2018 at 10:15 PM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Transponder View Post
      I have been able to muster enough focus to reach out and grab the entity myself, and to look directly into its face. Sometimes I then "pop" awake.... and sometimes the entity, itself, vanishes. The "point" of all of this.... is that I feel like I have stumbled upon a kind of self-defense "learning process".... that should be a topic of general conversation.... if others are to benefit.
      Very good, I will share. First run in when they got "in my face" ended with me chasing one through a wall and on the other side was a man who forced eye contact with me. I suddenly could not move. Three entities came close and examined me for awhile before attempting to confuse me with a false awakening. I woke on my grandma's couch. Grandma was there. She was balancing a stack of pillows she had been making. I told her I knew this was still a dream, pointing out that her pillows were at least an inch above her hand. Suddenly Grandma morphs into the first entity and he makes eye contact. I am again frozen and examined. I force myself awake.

      With many hundreds of interactions I learned to do the same to them. These ones were actually helpful and have led to my interaction with many astral beings and a couple cities. I have also ran into darker things.

      It is interesting you mention the concentration on one's center. In the end it comes down to two things. Volume of the energy you can create- how loud can you turn up the volume. And second how much lack of chaos you can create. I say it that way rather than how much order you can manage; perhaps you will understand why.
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      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

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      This is fascinating, I am trying to get into astral projection. I've been heavily interested in it for about a year. Still never succeeded. Got a feeling it's something to do with what I'm smoking, I've not been getting lucid either. Quitting soon

      The way I've been preparing myself for dark entities is to remember that they only use fear as a weapon. I've come across this "terror" thing before when I was trying to astral project once.

      Y'know what, I'll tell you the story.

      I met God with the help of this dude on Facebook. He channeled God as he spoke to me, and he also gave me a bunch of ancient wisdoms about myself. But he also asked if he could try something on me. He said he could send me on a journey through dimensions n shit. Of course I said "go for it! I had completely forgotten that we'd agreed upon that, because he continued to channel god for me. Then eventually I started talking to God myself.

      That dude had recommended astral projection to me as a way to really prove all this shit is real. So after 3 days of not sleeping, not drinking, not eating, just talking to God, I randomly decided to astral project.

      I lay still for hours and just focused on my "astral body". After not long, I felt the presence of hundreds of entities. It felt like my room was full of people watching me. It felt like a loving presence though, it felt almost as if there were a bunch of people just waiting for me to speak or something. Then I saw this weird blob of light, shaped like my flatmate's cat, it looked like it walked a bit then jumped up on the bed. Then a few seconds later, I heard the cat come in the room and jump up on the bed. It was so fuckin weird. Then I felt a presence come right up to me for a while then went away.

      I never left my body, but I really felt like I could feel my astral body "loosen" a bit. Maybe I was imagining it all, but it all felt so real at the time. I eventually gave up. I sat up in my bed. Then I started to see things. Most likely hallucinations from sleep deprivation, but I really feel like the whole experience was being affected by the spirit world.

      When I closed my eyes I saw a bunch of light blobs flying around, some came right up to me and vanished. I started playing with them. At the time I was certain these were "souls".

      I looked in the mirror and my face was gone and I got this crazy feeling of terror, it felt like it wasn't me I was looking at. But I just walked right up to the mirror and stared it in the face for a solid minute then walked away. That feeling of terror came back a few times in a few different situations, but I faced it the same every time, just stared it down and didn't let it phase me.

      By the way, I ended up going for a walk. Got found by the police, I was sitting on a roundabout next to an airport, talking the biggest load of rubbish. I was in outer space. It felt like my consciousness was trapped between dimensions or some shit.


      Anyways, that was a long winded story to ask, is that how you deal with dark astral entities? Just see past the fear? I also have been seeing the value in holding a loving vibration. Is that gunna help with dealing with dark entities?
      Last edited by slash112; 01-14-2018 at 05:27 PM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by slash112 View Post


      Anyways, that was a long winded story to ask, is that how you deal with dark astral entities? Just see past the fear? I also have been seeing the value in holding a loving vibration. Is that gunna help with dealing with dark entities?
      Dealing with the terror response certainly helps you to be willing to continue. However, if we make the assumption that this stuff is real, you need experience. The OP mentioned looking the entity in the face, and forcing himself awake. It would be kind of like saying to survive a bully on a school field all you need is to get past the fear. To a large degree and in many settings that is enough for the bully to loose interest. However, if the bully keeps picking on you, it may be time to learn the basics of fighting. Most bullies will stop if one fights back, even if you are not as tough as them. But your skills need to be credible enough to give them pause.
      The point being handling the panic reaction is absolutely the first step. However, beyond that you will need to learn to not get in conflicts, and also how to carry yourself (volume and lack of chaos) so that you are a credible threat to bullies. Even then you will never be the biggest bad ass on the astral. So, learning the basics and getting past the terror will help you stay out of the big ones way, and not appearing to be a victim.
      My fist advice on here was "On the plus side you can always return to your body and end the experience." I stand by that. You are in little danger if you are willing to admit defeat and return to a waking state.
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      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

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      Ahh, that's great advice, thank you! I will keep that in mind.

      Also, I hear that in the lower astrals, most of the dark entities are thoughtforms created by the human mind. Is that true? Are the lower astrals just filled with people's head-junk?
      Last edited by slash112; 01-15-2018 at 04:36 AM.
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      I AM NOT SURE, BECAUSE I ONLY TRUST MY EXPERIENCE. There are area where the things are like ghosts, they are drawn to life and want to touch you. Something like that could be a lower level or dimension with in the astral. I have never run into an area seeming filled with random people's thoughts. But hey, it is large like the universe. I have only traveled areas relating to reaching a certain city and travel from there to a much smaller city. I have been in other areas due to getting lost and have had weird run ins with darker entities of various forms. Just out side some areas are many strange animals. Endless fun.
      Last edited by sivason; 01-17-2018 at 02:42 AM.
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      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

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      Aw man that sounds awesome. I can't wait to have experiences of my own.

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      Its been 3 years since I had my very first OBE attack from an external entity. And it was the only one Iíve had since birth.

      Basically Iíve accidentally ďdisturbĒ a form of prayer by the Chinese religion during their opening of the hell gates. Known in Asia as the 7th month.

      The first dream was of an endless highway with a tunnel at the end, and on my left is a motorcycle of old origin probably during the 1970s. On my right was a lady with Long black hair wearing a white rob.

      I was on lucid then so I decided to disturb the lady(Just being me)
      She was irritated and pushed me to the ground. That was when I woke up and saw my room ceiling, brushing it off as a normal lucid dream I went to the toilet for a quick release and went back to bed.

      The same dream occurred shortly with the same momentum, highway -> tunnel -> motorcycle -> lady

      This time I realised it was the same dream, so I decided to do something different. I tried to carry her, she got irritated and pushed me to the ground.
      I knew it was a problem when I didnít wake up and was still in my dream, and both her hands were holding me down and I couldnít move(paralysis?)

      Her Face was revealed, well she was faceless. And her face kept coming closer to mine, I tried to do the ĎJerkí to get out of my dream since I was a kid.
      Didnít work so I prayed to god.

      It worked! Iím now awake eyes opened, I see my ceiling and my im surrounding walls. But..... she was still there.
      Being super afraid and couldnít move, I knew this was something else. I prayed out loud for forgiveness for whatever Iíve done.

      She eventually faded off towards my window and I could move again.
      Last edited by Joshuayew; 01-18-2018 at 08:02 AM.
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      Sorry bro. You're coo coo for cocopuffs. I legitimately recommend therapy. Otherwise, look up Thomas Campbell. He goes over his equally batty beliefs. Rather in depth stuff about self-defense in the astral plane. Quite interesting, if complete BS.

      But it's all just lucid dreams and regular dreams. Alien abductions, demon experiences, many religious experiences, all either stemming from schizophrenics or some type of dreaming. They can be very convincing, but in the end, it's all just figments of one's mind. Hence how many different ideas float around about aliens and demons and such.

      Of course, I could be wrong. Certainly. Could you be?

      Human brains are really dumb. Mine too. Our brains fuck up all the time. You know those optical illusions which look like they're moving, but they're really not? That's your eyes fucking up. It's the brain fucking up.

      My suggestion is to really think and reflect hard on your experiences. Is there *any* possibility that you're misinterpreting the data? Is there any rational reasons for what you've experienced at all?
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      Quote Originally Posted by StygianThemis View Post
      Sorry bro. You're coo coo for cocopuffs. I legitimately recommend therapy. ...

      ...But it's all just lucid dreams and regular dreams. ...

      ...Of course, I could be wrong. Certainly. Could you be?...

      Yes of course, anybody could be wrong. But by same token, anybody could also be right.

      People who believe only in dreams may call coocoo those who believe in lucid dreams, haha. And so on and so forth.

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      They very well may call LD crazy, but lucid dreaming has been emperically proved with science. We can see the rational part of the brain light up on an MRI, while a person has a lucid dream. Astral travel, dream sharing, and other beings have not.

      There is always a more rational reason for magical thinking type things. In any case, as I said: Thomas Campbell's Big TOE includes self-defense measures for your beliefs and could probably help you out. Don't worry, he believes the same. At least he is a physicist and tries to make it somewhat rational.
      Last edited by StygianThemis; 04-23-2018 at 07:21 PM.
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      Lucid dreaming was proved by science, only after a very long time of not being proved.

      Just because something is not proved yet, it doesn't mean it's not real. It only means that it was not proved yet, because we have no means of proving it.

      Yeah, this "it's not proved by science so it doesn't exist" is tiresome argument, and frankly we don't care for it much.

      This quote of yours from here https://www.dreamviews.com/attaining...ml#post2226606

      Quote Originally Posted by StygianThemis View Post
      After I learned Lucid Dreaming was scientific fact and not New Agey BS, it took me a month to have 1, where I lost lucidity after like 1 min.
      So, if it wasn't proven by science, you would have denied this experience? You would have told yourself, that you must be schizophrenic?

      Just because something is not proved YET, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

      It's a good thing that it really doesn't matter that people with no experience deny existence of these experiences. They do exist. For those that experienced them. Everybody else has to wait till they are lucky to have them. Or not. Don't really care, lol. I'm not trying to convince anybody either way, and I would appreciate same courtesy.

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      My point was there is a profoundly simple way to prove it. Not that if science hasn't discovered something it doesn't exist. Don't strawman my argument.

      I very well may have thought I was crazy. Or, I may have tried to fill the gaps in what was happening to me, in having a lucid dream. "Maybe demons are invading my dreams and making me aware of them." "Maybe God is speaking to me." "Maybe aliens are probing my mind." These sorts of thoughts that humans have had since the beginning of history. Magical thinking to fill in the missing piece of the puzzle. There are infinite possibilities, and humans have a tendency to grab onto the easiest ones to grab. That's why we have science. To transcend that magicial thinking.

      My point here is that one should think about the rational possibilities, first. One should attack such concepts from every angle, before determining outlandish, fantastical possibilities--if, after that, the only answer that remains is insane, then it would have to be true. And not that the only explanation is "You must be crazy." Sometimes there is a much simpler explanation.

      You very much were trying to convince people. You did not pay that same courtesy that you say you value so much. "Take my word for it. Creatures are real." Honestly, I am being excessively kind in my restraint towards you attempting to push your irrational, subjective experiences and beliefs onto me, in the OP--and, if you will note, my attempts to help you with your issues in 2 different ways.

      1: Suggesting thinking about it from a different angle amd re-examining what you believe to be true--which is good advice for fuckin' anything.

      And 2: Providing you with literally *epic* resources for the very topic you posted, to help you and whomever else within your own belief system. But I'm sure you didn't even bother to check, despite your complaint of a lack of talk about self-defense on the astral plane.

      You're welcome.
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      Nobody is trying to push his beliefs or experiences onto you. We come here to share our experiences with like-minded people. Nobody is making you to read or respond. And by golly, absolutely nobody is asking you to help us find a cure for our craziness.

      There is nothing wrong with examining the experiences from different angles. That's what we do. We like to know what exactly it is what we experience. But telling us that we are crazy is not that. Keep that to yourself.

      I did read Campbell. And others. I wish I had more time to read more from my digital collection. Hopefully one day.
      Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming by LaBerge
      Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self by Robert Waggoner
      Daniel Love
      Robert Monroe
      Adventures Beyond Body; Secret of the Soul (and others) by William Buhlman
      Astral Dynamics by Robert Bruce
      Out of Body Experiences by Robert Peterson
      The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche, Mark Dahlby
      Advanced Lucid Dreaming: The Power of Supplements by Thomas Yuschak
      Frank Kepple from Astral website
      Multidimensional Man by Jurgen Ziewe
      Michael Raduga

      Not sure why I'm even posting this. I don't want to argue with you. Feel free to post your "help". We all thank you for that.

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      Wow. I am glad to have read this entire thread. It was really interesting. I think that there are like other dimensions, and beings there. I don't think they would participate in scientific studies though. Especially if keeping out of the broader human awareness gives them an advantage.

      I think the "its all in your head" thing is a defense mechanism. It helps people move on from a psychic attack of the night. because if they wouldn't stand a chance of fighting it anyway, another option is to deny its existence.

      There was a guy who wrote about how dream work is actually like a place where humans need to defend the planet. I believe all that magical stuff.

      People could call me "mentally ill" or say I need "medication" for it. But to me thats all part of their agenda. LOL
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      Ya, see, I do my best not to hold beliefs.
      The only thing I genuinely believe to be true, is that I am perceiving the current moment. That's the only thing anyone can truly prove to themselves.
      Everything else is speculation. Even science. You can't even prove to yourself that 3 seconds ago exists/existed.

      But my point is, astral projection and all this shiz is simply an exploration of possibilities, and an exploration of consciousness. You gotta open yourself to the possibilities to even begin exploring outside the norm. They would never have reached the moon if they didn't first consider it a possibility.

      For me, I've experienced a lot of crazy shit and a lot of cool shit. But I don't believe in any of it. I simply take it for exactly what it is.

      However, I still believe in looking at empirical evidence. I've talked to angels and looked for empirical evidence that it's true. I've done astral stuff and looked for empirical evidence. I've done Oracle cards. I've done clairvoyance, clairsentience, claircognizance. Remote viewing. I've talked to God. And a whole bunch more... I look for empirical evidence that confirms stuff. And I have actually gathered some. But it's not something that would fly in a science journal. Because science doesn't recognize the abstractions involved in these things.

      I'm not experienced enough at this point but one day I'd love to do a full scientific investigation into it. Because honestly the evidence is staggering.
      I just first gotta get the abstractions straight, in my head. I'm pretty certain that one day I'll be able to fully explain the abstractions in a way that cannot be scientifically disputed. And in a way that allows for accurate measurements of experiences and results.



      Note: Whenever I use the word "believe" when not referring to perceiving the current moment, I don't actually mean I believe it. It's more like saying "speculate" or "I like to take the stance that" or that sorta thing. I maybe should stop using the word believe. It just flows in conversation much better.
      Last edited by slash112; 04-24-2018 at 09:12 PM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by StygianThemis View Post
      My point was there is a profoundly simple way to prove it. Not that if science hasn't discovered something it doesn't exist.
      How would you prove such things? This has been discussed before, and the answer is complicated.
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      Quote Originally Posted by slash112 View Post
      Ya, see, I do my best not to hold beliefs.
      The only thing I genuinely believe to be true, is that I am perceiving the current moment. That's the only thing anyone can truly prove to themselves.
      Everything else is speculation. Even science. You can't even prove to yourself that 3 seconds ago exists/existed.
      "I think, therefore I am." The one undeniable truth. Blows my mind to think about that.

      For me to be on topic to this thread, I do think that astral projection is possible in some form. Most of the reason is because I am religious, and I believe that God can talk to you in dreams and influence dreams, so I simply make the connection that one can reach outside of her or his dreams as well. If I take the idea that God can influence dreams as a truth, then logically there must be some way to influence dreams from outside one's subconscious. And if that is true, it is plausible to a degree that someone could reach outside of their dream by their own will.
      Last edited by Jewel; 04-24-2018 at 09:17 PM.

    21. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by slash112 View Post
      ...But my point is, astral projection and all this shiz is simply an exploration of possibilities, and an exploration of consciousness. You gotta open yourself to the possibilities to even begin exploring outside the norm. They would never have reached the moon if they didn't first consider it a possibility.

      ...For me, I've experienced a lot of crazy shit and a lot of cool shit. But I don't believe in any of it. I simply take it for exactly what it is.
      Haha slash, EXACTLY. Very well put, same here. I had a lot of really crazy and awesome, out of this world incredible experiences. I don't necessarily know what it was exactly, even if I found a similar description from others.

      All I know is, that I have experienced something unusual and I love it. I would love to know what it was, but I can wait. To have more of those and maybe compare more of the notes with others. What I had, was enough to never ever ridicule or question other's experiences. Even before my first lucid dream, I was opened to existence of "things" beyond our vision. Bring it on!

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      Quote Originally Posted by StygianThemis View Post
      My suggestion is to really think and reflect hard on your experiences. Is there *any* possibility that you're misinterpreting the data? Is there any rational reasons for what you've experienced at all?
      StygianThemis, I can see where youíre coming from here, but next time you want to give someone advice, maybe donít start by calling them crazy? Examining things from multiple angles is wonderful advice, but not only does it make people less receptive to it when you precede it by a simplistic diagnosisó it makes it look as if you arenít following it yourself.

      That said, Iíd put money down that everybody in this thread has had experiences that donít fit easily into the conventional view of reality, and thatís a perfectly rational reason to start exploring other views.
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      I just want to share my experience. I am definitely not saying anyone is wrong, just stating my experience. I certainly would not assume someone is crazy, as one person suggested.

      I had a sleep paralysis experience shortly before starting my adult lucid dreaming practice. Due to my fear in the situation of feeling like I was being held down by an invisible entity, I decided to pray until I woke up (related to my mostly dormant religious upbringing). I looked for guidance online (it eventually led me here a number of months later). I read about sleep paralysis experiences of all kinds, with people experiencing a big variety of things holding them down: aliens, man/rapist, dogs/wolves or other animals, spirits, etc. I then read about SP from the scientific perspective and decided that was the most likely explanation for what I experienced. Over the subsequent 5+ years, I have had other experiences of something fairly heavy on top of me and in those experiences I turned them into a woman as the explanation for the heaviness on top of me. Anyone who knows my lucid adventures, knows that I obviously had a great time. I also haven't suffered any negative consequences.

      I am concerned that some people will read these fairly common experiences and have fear like I initially did. They may experience schema poisoning and have the same type of experiences that they just read about and may stay away from lucid dreaming. I also know a few friends who love nightmare scenarios and such discussion may draw them into lucid dreaming, but I think they are in the minority.

      Edit: I have also done the same thing when experiencing scary things in lucid dreams and have found personally that the only thing to fear, is the fear itself.
      Last edited by fogelbise; 04-25-2018 at 12:00 AM. Reason: Additional info, no changes above "Edit"

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      I was thinking of OP's post last night and the thing he said about sort of responding on a vibrational level. Which would be deeper than words or thoughts or motions. There were some ghosties during a DEILD transition but I am okay now.

      I wrote in my DJ, well, look. Did I "imagine" that just because I read about it the previous day. Or... did reading about it just make me more aware of what already happens?


      Spoiler for Example of rational mind Vs. heart but off topic:
      About science, I am against the way it attempts to coldly dismiss truths of the heart. (This is an off topic example so you can remove it if necessary. I wasn't sure if its okay because it uses an off topic example to relate to the current discussion) For example, the medical community has gone on a long period time saying that routine infant circumcision is not harmful and in fact beneficial. They have this scientific idea that baby boys don't feel any pain (they can't anesthatize baby boys though). However I reviewed circumcision videos and that baby boy does NOT want that being done. To me it is a "truth of the heart" that that is totally wrong. Science has begun to come around with new studies refuting it but you still get these sick "skeptics". I think thats where science/skepticism goes too far in dismissing things that are clear as day to a person's heart.

      They went on to do many more ruthless "experiments" where they "measured" the "amount" of agony caused to baby boys in the procedure. It took them HUNDREDS more baby boys to conclude that yes circumcision hurts to them. When all of that could have been spared if someone would just listen to their heart.

      And the scientists will have the nerve to ask me. "Can you link me to a study for that?"

      ANd another reason this is a good example of the cold rational mind being a bad thing. Is that a doctor circumcizing a baby boy will think to himself as the baby screeams in agony. "babies cant feel pain. Science say so." There is no way I could dissociate from the babies pain with false facts like that but some people can. That's why I think science is used in a bad way.


      So I will live my life from my heart.
      Last edited by Charles3; 04-25-2018 at 09:06 PM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by fogelbise View Post
      I just want to share my experience. I am definitely not saying anyone is wrong, just stating my experience. I certainly would not assume someone is crazy, as one person suggested.

      I had a sleep paralysis experience shortly before starting my adult lucid dreaming practice. Due to my fear in the situation of feeling like I was being held down by an invisible entity, I decided to pray until I woke up (related to my mostly dormant religious upbringing). I looked for guidance online (it eventually led me here a number of months later). I read about sleep paralysis experiences of all kinds, with people experiencing a big variety of things holding them down: aliens, man/rapist, dogs/wolves or other animals, spirits, etc. I then read about SP from the scientific perspective and decided that was the most likely explanation for what I experienced. Over the subsequent 5+ years, I have had other experiences of something fairly heavy on top of me and in those experiences I turned them into a woman as the explanation for the heaviness on top of me. Anyone who knows my lucid adventures, knows that I obviously had a great time. I also haven't suffered any negative consequences.

      I am concerned that some people will read these fairly common experiences and have fear like I initially did. They may experience schema poisoning and have the same type of experiences that they just read about and may stay away from lucid dreaming. I also know a few friends who love nightmare scenarios and such discussion may draw them into lucid dreaming, but I think they are in the minority.

      Edit: I have also done the same thing when experiencing scary things in lucid dreams and have found personally that the only thing to fear, is the fear itself.
      I hope your wife, won't find about your dream adventures, by reading your dream journal accidentally.

      I agree, SPs are really scary, but if you know how to overcome them, they are no longer happening. But I think semi-lucid (aka FaW) are more scarier, especially the chained one. And that is the reason I liked them, maybe I am just "masochist". I was even thinking ways of inducing them like WILD.

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