Thread: Menthol as a Dream Enhancer

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Welcome back, PeterF! Speaking only for myself, a moderate dose of menthol combined with a reasonable acetylcholine-enhancing stack is still the most powerful base combo I've hit. And if you add to that a small amount of caffeine, the odds of lucidity are raised even further and the chances for a WILD go up as well.

The only problem with the galantamine / menthol / caffeine combo is that it's preventing me from experimenting with other potential combos.

Hey Canis, yea i stopped taking combos for the past month. hopefully some of my tolerance is down. what exactly were you taking for the acetylcholine stack? got me interested haha. For the past few months I've only remembered a handful of dreams & little to no vividness on top of that so I'll definitely be taking some acetylcholine enhancers.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

I don't know if this has come to anyone's attention, but omega 3 supplements have been linked with prostate cancer(!)
Fish oil supplements linked to prostate cancer - Health News - NHS Choices

lol what doesn't cause cancer these days?

From the morning of 08/03/2013:

Dose: WBTB: 3 bags peppermint tea, Yuschak amino acid blend (4g L-glutamine, 2g L-aspartic acid, 300mg L-theanine)
Side Effects: None
Sleep Duration: ~7 hours
Cognitive: Typical non-lucid (aka not too smart)
Sexual: No
Atmosphere: Creative and surreal. Slightly creepy in one dream.
Lucid: No

I've been trying to see whether I can make the Yuscahk amino acid blend work for me, and I tried combining it with menthol. I had lots of great non-lucids from this but didn't achieve lucidity. For all I know, the positive effects may have all been from the menthol, but we'll see what future experiments bear out.

The dreams were all really cool, though, so maybe the AAB isn't completely hopeless for me. We'll see! It certainly can't touch menthol + galantamine, though, at least not yet.

Originally Posted by PeterF

Hey Canis, yea i stopped taking combos for the past month. hopefully some of my tolerance is down. what exactly were you taking for the acetylcholine stack? got me interested haha. For the past few months I've only remembered a handful of dreams & little to no vividness on top of that so I'll definitely be taking some acetylcholine enhancers.

I'm very sorry for missing this, PeterF! I'm not sure what happened.

My ACh stack is a galantamine + choline combination. The best place to learn about galantamine is Thomas Yuschak's very thorough book "Advanced Lucid Dreaming". If you're interested, definitely pick it up. It's only $5 on lulu.com.

The dosages that I've worked up to: 8mg galantamine (includes 400mg choline citrate), 500mg choline bitartrate, 600mg Alpha-GPC. (All at WBTB, of course!) A starting dose would of course be much smaller. The lower the dose where you can achiev an effect, the better. Less risk of side effects and the substance clears from your system more quickly.

Again, if you're interested in galantamine, definitely check out the Yuschak book! It's filled with great info. Personally, I've been very pleased by how well menthol (via peppermint tea) seems to combine with a G+C stack.

Aug 16th 2013

Dose: (WBTB) L-Arginine (x1) = 500 mg, Vitamin B6 (x1) = 10(Ten)mg, Menthodex cough drops (x2) = 0.36 % w/w
Side Effects: Gripey stomach
Sleep Duration: 5.5 hrs approx before, 2.25 hrs approx after. Total = 7.75 hrs approx
WBTB: Yes - natural (34 min)
Lucid: Yes DILD (x2)
Vividness: High (especially the last DILD.)
Stability: High (as above.)
Dream Comments: Very good to excellent recall. High awareness (post-WBTB.) Dreamsigns. Memorable. TOTM (basic)
The lower ambient light/cooler weather (rain) probably helped me drop off to sleep after my (slightly late) WBTB.
(N.B. I did recall a pre-WBTB dream in significant detail which would have helped my state of mind and given me more confidence. The WBTB itself was a bit of a 50/50, sort of a half-hearted affair initially.)

Dad and Mom. Art, etc (DILD x2) - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Date: Thurs Aug 22nd 2013
Dose: (Bed) 1 drop of Clary Sage Aromatherapy oil placed on the end of finger/pillow; (WBTB) 1 bag of Peppermint tea steeped in 0.5 pt cup of warm water for approx 5 min
Side Effects: None
Sleep Duration: 6.25 hrs approx before (WBTB 30 min) 2.5 hrs approx after. Total = 8.75 hrs
Cognitive: Good recall (especially pre-WBTB.)
Sexual: Yes – nudity and adult/dark themes, etc.
Atmosphere: Varied, ranging from general to sexual and suicide.
Other Comments: Short fragments. Many (NL) dreams recalled. Dreamlet/HI noted. Totem (LH.) Most dreams recalled pre-WBTB however.

The Airliner, etc - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I haven't updated here for a while so here's a summary of the July trials. Hope I can copy paste the table here. No, for some reason it doesn't work, although I saw a table in one of the workbooks. Anybody know how to do that?

Anyways, here's the July summary:

Date Combo Lucid/Comments
02.July Pre bed: SJW, 100mg B6, 1 capsule p.oil (200mg) 2 micro-lds
06.July Pre bed: 2 bags p.tea, 100mg B6, 200mg valerian 2-micro-lds, woken up
12.July Pre bed: 2 bags p.tea, multivits no, very sleepy
16.July Pre bed: SJW, 100mg B6, WBTB: 2xp.oil capsules (400mg) no
25.July Pre bed: 200mg valerian, 100mg B6, 1 capsule p.oil (200mg) 2 Lds, some DC aggressive beh, possibly related to B6

Now, on to August:

Date: 6th of Aug
Dose: Pre bed Gingko 120 mg, 1 capsule p.oil (200mg)
Side Effects: none
Sleep Duration: 9 hrs
Cognitive: I was sleepier than usual, and a bit foggy minded during the lucid
Sexual: no
Atmosphere: there were some not so nice moments (tooth-related) and a bit of chase, plus strange biting mice, but then the lucid part was more relaxed (in the greenery)
Other Comments: Although a bit sleepy and skipped taking an additional planned dose of p.oil (200mg), I still managed to pull off a lucid. The dream interrupted two times, which messed my recall a bit, but it left me with the impression of being very long. It certainly made it hard for me to keep track of that I had done, plus it was really hard to tag my actions as everything was happening in the greenery.

Long Journey to the beach

Date: 25th of Aug
Dose: Pre bed Gingko 120mg, Q10 10mg, p.oil capsule (200mg)
Side Effects: none
Sleep Duration: 7 ½ hrs
Cognitive: vivid, enhanced positive emotions, some neg ones as well, good self-control in ld part, couldn’t recall advanced TOTM, but recalled 3 other tasks later in the dream
Sexual: no, but romantic moments
Atmosphere: interesting non-ld (zoo images, Greek gods exhibition hall), very vivid ld with extremely bright colors.
Other Comments: In times when I cannot use caffeine (due to sleep schedule and wake uncertainty), the combo of Gingko plus peppermint oil capsule pre bed seems to help a lot with dream recall, enhance vividness, and I am not as sleepy (compared to the also nice SJW combo), which means it is easier to ld.

Love triangles and 3steptasks

Dose: Pre-bed: 100mg 5-htp; WBTB: 2xGalantamind (8mg galantamine, 400mg choline citrate, B5), 500mg choline bitartrate, 1.2g Alpha-GPC, 4 bags peppermint tea
Side Effects: None
Sleep Duration: 7 hours
Cognitive: High
Sexual: Minimally
Atmosphere: Extreme vividness
Lucid: Yes! Two lucid dreams.

The effect from this combo was outstanding. I experienced a series of vivid dreams that were mostly about anxiety trying to get lucid or otherwise thinking about dreaming. I kept waking up from these wondering when I was going to LD, but always had plenty of time. After a while, it all came together in a pair of ultra-vivid lucids.

Vividness in these was actually higher than waking life, which is a hard thing to describe. But it's sort of like having everything in your field of view perfectly clear, not just the one thing you're focusing on. I performed some exercises at the beginning of each dream to try to induce this, so it's not clear how much was down to the tech and how much the supps aided. Anyway, it was a great couple of LDs, and I got one of the Task of the Year items in the 2nd dream.

Lucid #1
Neon - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Lucid #2 (Asia Task of the Year)
The Great Wall of China - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Date: 1 Sept
Dose: pre bed 120mg Gingko, 1 capsule p. oil (200mg)
Side effects: none
Sleep duration: 8 hrs
Cognitive: vividness was above average but recall was much lower than previous trials, possibly due to schedule deviations
Sexual: no
Atmosphere: normal, with some moments where I failed to meet people's expectations
Comments: I had a feeling it may not be the best night to take (waste) the supps as my sleep schedule have been moving towards by-phasic or even polyphasic sleep due to people going to bed and waking up at weird hours. Indeed, after so many nights of random insomnia, I found myself waking up naturally at unplanned times and unable to sleep, then going into deeper sleep. I don't think this has to do with the combo though. Also decided to skip WBTB and taking another 200mg of peppermint oil. Hope to be able to fix this soon.

Menthol is an alkaloid, it increases your heart rate. Are you sure its safe for hypertense persons?

Menthol is an alkaloid, it increases your heart rate. Are you sure its safe for hypertense persons?

I'd say if there is any doubt, then don't do it. I don't think anyone here can give medial advice.

Originally Posted by Rashni

Menthol is an alkaloid, it increases your heart rate.

Yes, I would say more so in the pure state.
(Caffeine and Nicotine are also Alkaloids - these have an effect on the brain/heart too, etc. although we generally take them in the form or Coffee, Tea, etc. or in the case of Nicotine, in Tobacco, Cigarettes, etc. rather than the 'pure' state.)

Originally Posted by Rashni

...Are you sure its safe for hypertense persons?

Do you mean hypertense as in hypertension (high blood pressure; I'm presuming you do?) or as in hyper-tense as in over-active?

Originally Posted by Xanous

I'd say if there is any doubt, then don't do it. I don't think anyone here can give medial advice.

Allergies are another thing to consider: Hives, rash, irritation, breathing difficulties, stomach upset, etc.

Date: Tues Sept 17th 2013
Dose: (WBTB) Menthodex cough drops (x3)= 0.36 % w/w. Galantamine and Choline (x1) = 4/200 mg.
Side Effects: Insomnia. Gripey stomach
Sleep Duration: (7.25) – 8.25 hrs
WBTB: 49 min (@ 5.15 am)
Lucid: Yes (A DILD, plus a micro-DILD)
Vividness: Very good
Stability: Very good/excellent
Dream Comments: Some Hypnagogia/dreamlets noted. Transition sensations. Very good recall with little effort. A long bright main DILD. Good control.
Ability to think about tasks whilst in dream but I did suffer from temporary bouts of (grey) blindness. I was able to ‘hold’ the dream together during these episodes.

Flying, the lake place – TOTM attempt (DILDs) - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Dose: Pre-bed: 3 cough drops (22.5mg menthol); WBTB: 3 cough drops (22.5mg menthol)
Side Effects: Fairly good night's sleep, reduced coughing.
Sleep Duration: 7 hours
Cognitive: Bold and daring. Pretty good pattern recognition.
Sexual: No.
Atmosphere: Adventurous
Lucid: One micro-lucid

I'm recovering from being sick, so these menthol cough drops were being used for their advertised purpose and as a dream aid. Kind of funny to think of reduced coughing as a side effect, but hey, I'm here for the dreams.

I had a nice, long non-lucid where I was participating in all kinds of action/adventure maneuvers and had the dexterity of something like an Assassin's Creed game. Interestingly, there was little to no actual violence in these dreams, just lots of adventure.

In addition, had a micro-lucid where I wandered into a building that I recognized as being from a video game (Left4Dead) and had a flash of lucidity just before waking up.

A pretty good night, particularly for a month where dream work has been challenging at best.

I wonder if it would work to dissolve 4 or 5 coughdrops (High in menthol, of course.) in some water, Pour the water in a humidifier and fall asleep with the humidifier close. Thoughts?

{Next day Edit:}
So it did work quite well, especially that i was not in my own bed. (Long story.) I had about two or three vivid dreams, but me being too lazy to dreamjournal, i do not remember them now.

Originally Posted by Tradl3s

I wonder if it would work to dissolve 4 or 5 coughdrops (High in menthol, of course.) in some water, Pour the water in a humidifier and fall asleep with the humidifier close. Thoughts?

Interesting idea, but I wonder if the concentration might be much too low to have any effect...? Hopefully it wouldn't make your walls too sticky!

Originally Posted by Tradl3s

I wonder if it would work to dissolve 4 or 5 coughdrops (High in menthol, of course.) in some water, Pour the water in a humidifier and fall asleep with the humidifier close. Thoughts?

Maybe you could take the idea a little further and use a small amount of the dissolved menthol drops/water (or menthol drops/alcohol) solution like a tincture for sublingual use in the mouth/under the tongue, although it might be strong/cold?

When I put a cough drop in my mouth I guess I'm relying on sublingual action as well as ingestion via the gut. I was also thinking with the amount of movement the jaw does in chewing and sucking then maybe the jaw muscles are being relaxed via repetitive movements?
A key area of relaxation is the jaw and the associated muscles.

Just my 2 cents?

I just had to do a RC, when I saw this thread!!
Not wanting to drink black tea in my WBTBs - I drank peppermint tea twice - and at least one of these instances gave me one of my two a bit longer LDs lately!
Peppermint tea!
I love the stuff anyway - and also drinking something warm after waking up!

Originally Posted by Highlander

Maybe you could take the idea a little further and use a small amount of the dissolved menthol drops/water (or menthol drops/alcohol) solution like a tincture for sublingual use in the mouth/under the tongue, although it might be strong/cold?

When I put a cough drop in my mouth I guess I'm relying on sublingual action as well as ingestion via the gut. I was also thinking with the amount of movement the jaw does in chewing and sucking then maybe the jaw muscles are being relaxed via repetitive movements?
A key area of relaxation is the jaw and the associated muscles.

Just my 2 cents?

Jaw relaxation - you are really a genius - will take this above into account as well - but my tea makes me happy already - so tonight the tea it is!

Ooh - I could take this further my own way as well - after having lived a while in Israel - I caught a long-lasting affliction for Nana mint - I took shoots of it home, and grew my own peppermint on the window-shelf for a long while.
I might just get something like this on it´s feet once more - if not with Egyptian/Israeli Nana mint - with another good one - yay!!
That is something completely different to the one in little bags - fresh mint tea - wonderful!!
I put it in my black tea, by the way - and then milk and sugar.
Or only mint and lime juice, sugar and ice..

Originally Posted by StephL

I just had to do a RC, when I saw this thread!!
Not wanting to drink black tea in my WBTBs - I drank peppermint tea twice - and at least one of these instances gave me one of my two a bit longer LDs lately!
Peppermint tea!
I love the stuff anyway - and also drinking something warm after waking up!

Nice, Steph, an unintentional menthol success story!

I'm glad you had success with that. I really need to make time for another good peppermint tea WBTB. It's been too long!

Let us know how your future attempts go. This thread was always a good place for sharing experiences.

Originally Posted by StephL

Jaw relaxation - you are really a genius - will take this above into account as well - but my tea makes me happy already - so tonight the tea it is!

Thanks Stephl. :blush: As the 80's t shirt slogan read - "Frankie says Relax!"

Originally Posted by StephL

Ooh - I could take this further my own way as well - after having lived a while in Israel - I caught a long-lasting affliction for Nana mint - I took shoots of it home, and grew my own peppermint on the window-shelf for a long while.
I might just get something like this on it´s feet once more - if not with Egyptian/Israeli Nana mint - with another good one - yay!!
That is something completely different to the one in little bags - fresh mint tea - wonderful!!
I put it in my black tea, by the way - and then milk and sugar.
Or only mint and lime juice, sugar and ice..

Good luck BTW!

How is this going for you guys?

Originally Posted by Tradl3s

How is this going for you guys?

I haven't tried Menthol (in the form of cough drops) for quite a while until last week where I combined it with WBTB which resulted in a couple of DILD's on two seperate mornings.

I managed to get some extra strong packs at better than half price as it was ex stock.

I actually intended to get some caffeine pills but used some candy cane flavored green tea that my wife bought for me instead. I figured it would be nice since I haven't used menthol in forever and I was pleased with the results. I'm not sure how much of it can be attributed to menthol with all the other stuff I took and the many ingredients in the tea, but... here it is.

Dose: WBTB: 4 bags Candy Cane Lane® Holiday Herbal Teas | Celestial Seasonings, 1mg Melatonin, 100mg B6
Side Effects: sour stomach, wakeful
Sleep Duration: 7 hours
Cognitive: High. Well in control. Talkative. Battled excitement.
Sexual: No
Atmosphere: Typical OBE/WILD. Vivid
Lucid: Yes

He Loves Zebras - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views