Thread: Using Caffeine as a Trigger

Night of April 13, 2013
Dose: 3 bags green tea
Supporting Supplements: Prebed: 6 mg melatonin, 2g fish oil, WBTB: 3 bags green tea, 4800mg soy lecithin, 450mg Valerian Root, 4g fish oil
Bedtime: 11:00PM
WBTB wake time: ~3:00AM
Dose Time: ~3:30AM
Technique: MILD
Lucid: Yes!

I went with just a little bit less Valerian Root this time and much better daytime awareness practices. A couple of waking life issues had me slightly demotivated and distracted from practicing proper awareness techniques but I went at it a little harder yesterday, getting some payoff.

Here's the dream: Stephen LaBerge, Ghost Hunter - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Interestingly, recall was not nearly as good as the last time that I used caffeine. The non-lucid portions of last night's LD contain some substantial memory gaps. Fortunately, the lucid portion is pretty well preserved.

Since this was a success, I'll either leave things totally unchanged for the next trial OR consider dropping back on valerian root (to zero) or reducing caffeine to 2 tea bags. I don't feel greatly motivated to make huge, huge changes, though. I'm happy with this combination has been going. Just have to make sure it's supporting proper awareness practices!

OH the LaBerge one was caffeinated! Very cool!

Does anyone else find that they have strong recall when they use WBTB caffeine?

Yes that's one of the great effects of caffeine even if you fail to get lucid.

Night of April 6, 2013
Dose: 1 bag green tea
Supporting Supplements: Prebed: 15MG Melatonin WBTB: ¼ cup mugwort (packed) 10-15min simmer prepared prebed.
Bedtime: 9:15PM
WBTB wake time: 2:40AM
Dose Time: 2:40AM
Technique: MILD/WILD
Lucid: YES
Dream Comments: Carjacking - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Night of April 16, 2013
Dose: 1 bag green tea
Supporting Supplements: Prebed: 10MG Melatonin WBTB: ¼ cup mugwort (packed) 10-15min simmer prepared prebed.
Bedtime: 9:30PM
WBTB wake time: 2:30AM
Dose Time: 2:30AM - 3:00AM
Technique:WILD failed. DILD/DEILD
Lucid: YES
Dream Comments: Dream control seemed pretty easy. There was some wakefulness but I also felt pretty alert and rested when I woke for WBTB. I seemed to be deep in NREM when my son woke me. It was a dim awareness in the void almost like deep meditation. That was @ 3:30. The caffeine had kicked in at that point and I had to count myself down and sort of gave up on WILD. I had a brief DILD and had to DEILD back in. I think I lost lucidity briefly but recovered quick.

It seems to me that just a negligible amount of caffeine (25-30mg?) helps aid in mental alertness and recall when using mugwort.

Success!

Dose: 3 bags green tea
Supporting Supplements: Prebed: 15MG Melatonin WBTB: 300mg B6, 1000mg Taurine, 100mg L-Theanine.
Bedtime: 10:00PM
WBTB wake time: 3:30AM - 4:00AM
Technique: Started with SSILD but was too wakeful. counting WILD to DEILD chain - OBE
Side Effects: High Insomnia - Nausea
Lucid: YES!
Comments: A fun dream but really unstable. The insomnia was ridiculous from the get go but I managed. I had some nausea and I wonder if the B6 dose was too high. The most I have taken was 400mg but had no nausea. Perhaps it was something else?

A Robot In The Dark - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Dose: 2 bags black tea
Supporting Supplements: Prebed: 5MG Melatonin, 3G Fish Oil WBTB: 200mg B6, 1000mg Taurine, 100mg L-Theanine, 100MG DMAE
Bedtime: 10:30PM
WBTB wake time: 3:00AM - 3:15AM
Technique: MILD/SSILD - Really I failed to do either as I passed out right away.
Side Effects: None
Lucid: No
Comments: I totally blew it on this one. I was way to tire and WBTB was way too short. I fell asleep before I could decide if I wanted to try SSILD or MILD. I vaguely remember some vivid dreams but failed to DJ anything. I recall some fragments after awakening.

Dose: 3 bags green tea
Supporting Supplements: Prebed: 6g soy lecithin, 250mg DMAE, WBTB: 250mg DMAE
Bedtime: 11:30PM
WBTB wake time: ~5:00AM
Dose Time: ~5:00AM
Technique: MILD
Lucid: No

Unfortunately, I gave myself insomnia on this trial! There were a couple of easily identifiable sources of trouble. First, I got up way too late for the WBTB. After staying up for WBTB, it's late enough that you get the occasional truck passing, light starting to slowly filter in, approaching normal weekday wake-up time, etc.

Also, the combination of DMAE and caffeine is very stimulating, so I may do some combination of reducing my caffeine to 2 bags of green tea and perhaps throwing in some L-theanine to settle myself just a bit. I'm still working out exactly what approach I'll use there.

Still, I think that the biggest factor was just staying up too late then waking up too late for the WBTB. Targeting more like 3:00 AM or so just works so much better for defeating insomnia. By 5:30 AM, my body kinda realizes that I'm close to my usual wake-up time.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Also, the combination of DMAE and caffeine is very stimulating,

That would be a very good thing in my case. I may try upping DMAE next time and move the taurine to prebed.

Dose: 3 bags green tea
Supporting Supplements: Prebed: 100mg 5-HTP, 5g fish oil, WBTB: 2xGalantamind (8mg galantamine, choline, B5), 300mg Alpha-GPC, 200mg L-theanine, 3 bags peppermint tea, 1 bag green tea
Bedtime: 10:30PM
WBTB wake time: ~2:45AM
Dose Time: ~2:45AM
Technique: WILD
Lucid: Yes!!

This LD was awesome, definitely one of the coolest, if not the coolest of my life. It was long, rich, and generally very stable. It broke violently apart at the very end, but it had been going for 25-30 minutes by then. That makes it one of my longer LDs of all time.

The lucid dream: The Night of the Weredog - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Including caffeine on galantamine night is very, very intentional. I'm sure I've linked it before, but Yuschak did a cool trial that incorporated caffeine as a support supplement for G: http://lucidconsciousness.com/wp-con...cid-Dreams.pdf He cited a study from 2006 called "Effects of caffeine are more marked on daytime recovery sleep than on nocturnal sleep."

The study has its pubmed entry here and even cooler, the Nature Publishing Group has made full text of the study available for free online: Neuropsychopharmacology - Effects of Caffeine are more Marked on Daytime Recovery Sleep than on Nocturnal Sleep

The general idea is that just the right amount of caffeine (and the amount must be small) can suppress deep sleep without making it exceedingly hard to fall asleep. This should specifically make WILDs much easier. It worked well for Yuschak. As for me? This trial was a huge success. One data point isn't much, but considering how great this LD was, I'll be trying it a lot more!

I love it! I'll be adding some green tea friday night/saturday morning!

May 2, 2013
Dose: The original recipe... A few gulps of strong coffee. Which consists of half a scoop in hot water and let sit until WBTB time. I know the method is crude but it seems to give me better results.
Supporting Supplements: Prebed: 3g fish oil, Imperial Stout WBTB: 100mg B6
Bedtime: 10:00PM
Dose Time: 3:30AM - Brief WBTB
Technique: Totally forgot to induce... DILD?
Lucid: Yes!!

I had a sort of in-dream DEILDy WILDy type of thing going. In the dream I thought I was going on a lucid streak and assumed I did one of the basic TOTM for May but I have no real memory of it. The dream was a little unstable and short but that seems typical for using caffeine as the only trigger.

An Unpredictable Summons - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Dose: 1 bag green tea
Supporting Supplements: Prebed: 100mg 5-HTP, 5g fish oil, WBTB: 2xGalantamind (8mg galantamine, choline, B5), 300mg Alpha-GPC, 200mg L-theanine, 3 bags peppermint tea
Bedtime: 11:30PM
WBTB wake time: ~3:00AM
Dose Time: ~3:00AM
Technique: WILD
Lucid: Yes, multiple but shallow (2 WILD, 4 DEILD)

This was a success in terms of getting lucid, but sleep was very light and I awoke frequently. It was pretty hard to stay under. One big factor is that one of my dogs had a freakout and I had to run downstairs to get her under control before she woke up the kids. That got my heart rate up before WBTB, so that may have been a little too much stimulation. I may simply repeat this dose, but hopefully under better circumstances.

Again, WILD came very naturally with this supplement combo, so I see no reason not to repeat it! Caffine + cholinergic stimulation for lucidity and menthol for dream enhancement has so far made for a very nice combo. I'm not yet compelled to change much of anything.

The full DJ entry: DEILDs and Demigods - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Dose: 1 bag green tea
Supporting Supplements: Prebed: 100mg B6, 1mg melatonin, 3g fish oil WBTB: 8mg galantamine, 250mg choline, 200mg DMAE
Bedtime: 10:30PM
WBTB wake time: 3:00AM - 3:15AM
Dose Time: ~3:00AM
Technique: WILD
Lucid: Yes

Comments: I don't know if it was the DMAE or the green tea or both but my transition states went so smooth that I fell victim to false awakenings several times. I had a very nice and stable WILD and was able to DILD during my FAs in the first hour. The only draw back is that I ended up with insomnia for a little longer then an hour. This is my first combo with G and caffeine and I'm not sure I like it. I found it very difficult to get lucid again when normally I can jump right back in after the first hour awakening. I did have sever vivid dreams with excellent recall. Pulled off a mild brief lucid but never took control. Then, at 7 the alarm clock went off and I went for DEILD got vibrations then lost awareness. Luckily, I was able pull off a really nice DILD and woke just before the next snooze alarm.

I think next time Ill leave out the green tea and just see how much of this smoothness is contributed to DMAE.

I haven't finished posting my dreams but I'll post links later and fix all my typos later since I'm on my phone in church right now.

Dose: 2 Stok Black Coffee Shots (80MG Caffiene)
Supporting Supplements: Prebed: 100mg B6, 5mg melatonin, 3g fish oil WBTB: 100MG B6
Bedtime: 10:00PM
WBTB wake time: 3:30 - 3:40
Dose Time: ~3:30AM
Technique: MILD
Lucid: Semi

I had very vivid dreams and one dream were I seemed to know it was a dream but didn't fully catch on enough I was talking about lucidity and dreams with DV members. Still calling this one a success. Unfortunately I got insomnia for about an hour before falling back to sleep.

Another success with caffeine menthol and l-dopa.

http://www.dreamviews.com/research/1...ml#post2020780

Dose: 2 Stok Black Coffee Shots (80MG Caffiene)
Supporting Supplements: Prebed: nothing WBTB: 100MG B6, 1000MG Taurine
Bedtime: 11:00PM
WBTB time: 4:30-4:40
Dose Time: 4:30AM
Technique: WILD OBE
Lucid: No

I blew this one. I was in the void for quite a while before I realized it. I started rolling and everything went well until I tried to exit my physical body. When I lifted my head up I actually moved waking myself up. I was a thrown by the lack of vibration and waited too long to try to exit.

Thought these will make a nice addition to the research:

Date: 4 June
Dose: 1/2 frappuccino bottle (40 mg caffeine)
Supporting supps: none
WBTB/Dose time: +5 hrs after sleep
Technique: mantra, intending ( I guess that's like a form of MILD?)
Lucid: yes
Comments: Two DILDs at end of REM, very good concentration and ability to remember tasks

Date: 5 June
Dose: 1/2 frappuccino bottle (40 mg caffeine)
Supporting supps: pre bed strong multivits
Dose time: did not pay attention, fell quickly asleep
Technique: none
Lucid: no
Comments: I was very sleepy and tired this night so no techniques used, dreams were of average vividness to slightly enhanced vividness, but recall was a bit hard. Missed a few dream signs, a base on the moon, and a very interesting store.

I'm guessing the frap has sugar and milk... I know milk does stuff and I've read some old threads speculating about sugar. I wonder how much effect it had. Very interesting.

Yes, it has milk and I think lots of sugar. With my recent sleepiness I need an extra boost mornings so you will be hearing more of either successful Lds or insomnia soon.

Originally Posted by Xanous

Dose: 2 Stok Black Coffee Shots (80MG Caffiene)
Supporting Supplements: Prebed: nothing WBTB: 100MG B6, 1000MG Taurine
Bedtime: 11:00PM
WBTB time: 4:30-4:40
Dose Time: 4:30AM
Technique: WILD OBE
Lucid: No

I blew this one. I was in the void for quite a while before I realized it. I started rolling and everything went well until I tried to exit my physical body. When I lifted my head up I actually moved waking myself up. I was a thrown by the lack of vibration and waited too long to try to exit.

Sometimes the transition can be so subtle. I suspect you were dreaming before you even tried to exit.

Date: 8 June
Dose: 1 chilled latte (103.4 mg)
Supporting supps: 200mg val pre bed
WBTB/Dose time: +4 hrs after sleep
Technique: MILD& SSILD - I had to be sure I'd get a lucid
Lucid: yes
Comments: I was extremely sleepy, and even thought to skip WBTB, but had the coffee and did the techs. It totally helped my awareness emerge from unconscious sleep. I was sleeping so heavily, when I woke up initially I couldn't recall anything even after the WBTB. Managed to recall part of the DILD and some dream fragments.

(Un)forgettable meeting

After having success with the frap and latte I decided to caffeinate myself during WBTB day after day. Got lucid, and also on the very last day got in trouble.

Date: 11 June
Dose: 1 chilled latte (103.4 mg)
Supporting supps: pre bed multivs, l-arginine (500mg)
WBTB/Dose time: +6 hrs after sleep (TST* = 6 1/2hrs)
Technique: MILD& SSILD
Lucid: yes
Comments: missed my ideal natural wake slot, but decided to WBTB nevertheless. Got an extra half an hour of sleep and a slightly confusing WILD. I managed to recall 5 tasks during the ld, although couldn’t do much as I got one of my dream paralysis events.
*TST – total sleep time

Hold on to the bottle

Date: 12 June
Dose: ½ Red Bull (around 53 mg caffeine)
Supporting supps: pre bed 120 mg Gingko
WBTB/Dose time: +6 hrs after sleep (TST 7 hrs)
Technique: fell asleep during mantra-style MILD
Lucid: yes
Comments: This was a very nice DEILD chain and not something I have experienced before. Recall of tasks related more or less to long term ones. Managed to stabilize relatively well simply by engaging in dream, walked quite a distance in DEILD3&4. The event surprised me a lot, I thought that the combo of sugar, B-vitamins and caffeine combined helped me to obtain these results.

Sing along DEILD chain

Date: 13 June
Dose: ½ Red Bull (around 53 mg caffeine)
Supporting supps: pre bed 120 mg Gingko
WBTB/Dose time: +4 hrs after sleep (slept 3 1/2hrs pre WBTB and and ½ post = 4hrs) (guest-related & insomnia)
Technique: SSILD
Lucid: yes
Comments: After the previous day’s experience I decided to repeat the experiment. While I had a similar type of DEILD chain it was not nice. I concluded I chose the wrong day for this (home distractions) and I got what I deserved – a nasty FA chain followed by DEILD chain and heavy insomnia. Dream control was not at its best.

FA/DEILD chain

Dose: 1 bag green tea (WBTB)
Supporting Supplements: Prebed: 100mg 5-HTP; WBTB: 2xGalantamind (8mg galantamine, choline, B5), 600mg Alpha-GPC, 3 bags peppermint tea
Bedtime: 11:15PM
WBTB wake time: ~3:00AM
Dose Time: ~3:00AM
Technique: WILD / SSILD / DILD
Lucid: Yes! 5 lucids!!

It had been a while since I'd had the chance to try galantamine + choline + caffeine + menthol, and I was reminded why it's my all-time favorite supplement combo. I had easily the highest number of lucid dreams of my life with this one.

The caffeine seems to be great at making it way easier to cross the gap with more of your awareness intact. Suppressing deep sleep, I think, has a lot of positive effects that help you either WILD or realize that you're dreaming. What was interesting with this session was that while there were 2 WILDs, there were also multiple DILDs (one via SSILD, I believe, the others spontaneous.)

It's speculative, but this would seem to indicate that caffeine does a lot more than just help with WILDs. Minimizing deep sleep and acting as an adenosine antagonist may be helping the waking consciousness stay just that little bit more active so that it's more easily aroused once dream situations become strange enough.

It also seemed like the higher dose of GPC may have let me cruise for a little bit longer than previous attempts.

The lucids:
The Terminator Locker - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
Menthol and Marriage, the Sequel - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
The Torrent - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
Metroid - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
The Substitute - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Wow!!! Congratulations!! An amazing night.

I'm interested - when do you drink the green tea? Before bed? Or for WBTB?

Nvrmnd - I saw on the Menthol thread it was pre-bed - that's what I figured. Need to give this a shot. (though Im surprised the peppermint teas was also pre-bed - never tried it that way).

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Wow!!! Congratulations!! An amazing night.

I'm interested - when do you drink the green tea? Before bed? Or for WBTB?

Nvrmnd - I saw on the Menthol thread it was pre-bed - that's what I figured. Need to give this a shot. (though Im surprised the peppermint teas was also pre-bed - never tried it that way).

Thanks, Darkmatters! I did both the peppermint tea and green tea at WBTB. The only aid that I used pre-bed was 5-HTP. I should clean up my formatting a bit to make that more obvious!