Busy morning!
Kaan:
So I guess I will continue to use the Dream Alarm mode of my RD for the next attempts to see if I can use an awakening and WBTB from REM more efficiently than a WBTB based on a natural awakening which I suppose to happen after the end of REM.
This kind of WBTB is probably supposed to be shorter than a "classic" WBTB if I want to make REM sleep come back soon.
Not sure about that but I will start with this hypothesis.
maybe I should start with another position than doing it on my back as it seams to delay the sleep onset, but I will have to be more aggressive on my mantra or any other anchor I will use, cause lying on my side makes me sleep very fast.
That's an interesting idea; I have a feeling it might work for you... but keep in mind that REM periods are frequent enough after 6 hrs' sleep or so that the wait for them is not too long (so if the RD alarm doesn't work for you, natural awakenings, with practice, still might).
Sydney:
Originally Posted by Sydney
I just don't understand.. nearly 2-3 years ago when I would attempt my WILDs, merely getting up and using the restroom caused me to stay awake for so long that I just had to give up and try to go to sleep. And even a couple days ago when I stayed up for 35 minutes, I was able to stay awake the whole time. Maybe I'm just subconsciously "giving up" at the time when I start my WILD attempts and I don't even know?
Or maybe you are a slightly different person, physically and psychologically, than you were 3 yrs ago? That's something to consider, I think. There may have been a lot of other things going on with (and within) you 3 yrs ago that allotted a longer time to get back to sleep. Try not to dwell upon how you were then, but rather on how you are now... and, for what it's worth, wasn't your "ability" to not fall asleep a real problem for you back then?
You might consider falling asleep quickly a good thing; I sure do, and sure wish I was so afflicted! Of course the trick, which you surely will learn, is to take advantage of that tendency to sleep, and not let it take advantage of you. Maintaining self-awareness and focus while your body quickly falls asleep can be trying, though, because your body's transition to sleep can be too speedy to consciously track. Here are a couple of suggestions:
The first and foremost is to get ideas like "Maybe I'm just subconsciously 'giving up' at the time when I start my WILD attempts and I don't even know" out of your head, because that only invites (or excuses) giving up.
Next, you might want to find a mantra that is more interesting; maybe one that relates directly to what you want to do in your dream or, conversely, one that sort of shouts at you to pay attention (my fall-back "Here & Now" mantra does that quite well for me, BTW). There is always a counting anchor as well, though, as you know, I don't think that's a great idea because it might do the job of keeping you awake too well.
And, experimenting with staying up for an hour is a good idea as well -- just be careful to keep those thoughts dreamy the whole time, and don't be tempted to use your phone, TV, or computer to pass the time.
tl;dr: instead of seeing falling asleep too quickly as a problem, think of it as an excellent tool that just takes a little more practice to learn how to properly use.
Next time!
ToukieToucan
Originally Posted by ToukieToucan
Ive been trying WBTB + WILD lately and I've bumped into a problem. I'll just describe what happened:
23:00 Go to sleep
05:00 wake up (and get up) for WBTB
05:30 I go in a kind of day dream state where I do see a convincingly real scenery and have a vague sense of consciousness.
05:40 I feel a numbness spread over my body but its not that strong
05:41 I feel a hand on my shoulder and I stay calm, my entire body is numb now
05:42 I realize Im in a close state to dreaming but just see grey and try to make a scenery but it fails and frustrates me.
05:43 I "wake" up (I was in a half conscious state nearly the whole time)
I would like to hear some tips and I'll see if I can just let the grey space become something next time.
That "grey space" you are experiencing is likely just a visit to NREM. Here are a couple of ways to work with it:
Your first option, and the one I always pick, is to simply relax and enjoy the peaceful pause that floating around in nothingness for a while can be, with the full confidence that REM, and your dream, is just around the corner. If you hold that confidence, and understand that your body is actually asleep and your WILD is pretty much complete, you might be able to avoid frustration and the waking up that often accompanies it.
Or, if you want the dream to get moving, you could try forming the dream, and nudge your mind to get REM started a bit early. It might not seem like there is a lot to grab onto in that grey to form dreams, but you'd be surprised: first, try looking at your hands (sometimes just spotting your hands and noticing that, say, they are not attached to anything, is enough to spur dreaming) and then give them something to do, like hold a flashlight to illuminate the scene that you know is lurking in the grey. Or simply focus on the grey until small shapes form (they eventually will, if you are looking for them) and work those shapes into the makings of a dream. For instance, if you see a small round dot, expand the dot until it becomes a sphere, and then attach meaning (schema) to the sphere by making it, say, a baseball that you are tossing to a friend on an open field. Before you know it, your dreaming mind will have finally switched into gear and will take over scene-processing for you....also, attempting to form a dream kills time so even if you have trouble doing it, you will be occupied with something other than frustration while waiting for your REM dreams to spool up.
Finally, be prepared for a false awakening. FA's have a habit of occurring after NREM pauses, so if you find yourself awake in your room, do a RC and have a careful look around, because you might just be dreaming!
TDHXIII:
Originally Posted by TDHXIII
Based on this, i don't know if i just wasted my time learning how to WILD-the-classic-way when i favor stuff like DEILD that is much easier to do. Well it's not wasted effort as i learned a bunch of stuff that is useful for DEILDing anyways... So let's see what happens next
I agree; you did not waste your time at all. DEILD is a form of WILD (you are transitioning from wake to sleep to dream without losing waking-life self-awareness in DEILD, just like WILD), and consequently much of what you need to know to DEILD is also what you needed to know with WILD.
Regardless, though, it looks like DEILD is indeed the optimal LD-route for you. That is a great thing, too, because in my mind DEILD is the easiest of the lot.
Good luck, everybody, with your next dives!
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