So, I like to list it just so I would get it all, It works like this: |
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(I missed these discussions ^^) |
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So, I like to list it just so I would get it all, It works like this: |
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Last edited by LouaiB; 08-09-2014 at 09:27 PM.
I fill my heart with fire, with passion, passion for what makes me nostalgic. A unique perspective fuels my fire, makes me discover new passions, more nostalgia. I love it.
"People tell dreamers to reality check and realize this is the real world and not one of fantasies, but little do they know that for us Lucid Dreamers, it all starts when the RC fails"
Add me as a friend!!!
Interesting stuff zoth. |
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Last edited by Zoth; 08-09-2014 at 09:42 PM.
Oh, so priming helps us by making us closer to the idea of LDing before bed, making it easier for us to react to dream situations with "hey this is a dream" ? |
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Last edited by LouaiB; 08-09-2014 at 10:58 PM.
I fill my heart with fire, with passion, passion for what makes me nostalgic. A unique perspective fuels my fire, makes me discover new passions, more nostalgia. I love it.
"People tell dreamers to reality check and realize this is the real world and not one of fantasies, but little do they know that for us Lucid Dreamers, it all starts when the RC fails"
Add me as a friend!!!
Try not to think of it in black-and-white terms: these observations that we've made here are correlational, and we can't say for sure one is causing the others. Meanwhile, the neurocorrelates of lucidity don't seem bound to a particular area of the brain, but an increase of several areas involved on self-monitoring. In the end, while that kind of thinking makes it easier for practical purposes, you might risk ignoring some fundamental aspect. Still, not like we lucid dreamers can be blamed for that, who of all people deserves the title of onironaut more than us? |
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Last edited by Zoth; 08-09-2014 at 11:15 PM.
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I fill my heart with fire, with passion, passion for what makes me nostalgic. A unique perspective fuels my fire, makes me discover new passions, more nostalgia. I love it.
"People tell dreamers to reality check and realize this is the real world and not one of fantasies, but little do they know that for us Lucid Dreamers, it all starts when the RC fails"
Add me as a friend!!!
I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents to share some results of following a similar technique some time ago - it wasn't exactly the same as yours jblb2424 so I can't say that yours wouldn't have better results - and of course different people will have different experiences..... |
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FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
“No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
"...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS
Thanks for sharing Tlalok! |
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Interesting post Tlaloc |
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Last edited by Zoth; 08-15-2014 at 03:58 PM.
Frying man I am very much in agreement with you. |
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Last edited by Tlaloc; 08-15-2014 at 04:37 PM.
Yes indeed very interesting! I think the continuous vigilance / continuous RC / ADA/RC approaches beats the "wait for a trigger event then RC" approach. You never get enough of those trigger events I think, even if it's something like walking through a doorway which happens dozens of times in a waking day. Well, in dreams, I don't go through very many doorways! Maybe 10 or less out of approaching 2000 recalled dreams this last full year of LD practice. |
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FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
“No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
"...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS
But Fryingman, I am very doubtful about the continueus vigilance approach. Be vigilant about dreamlike things and interactions during the day NEEDS our logical and rational mind systems to actually detect when these things occur. You get good at it during the day, but you lack rational thinking in the dream for it to be effective anyways! I think the only benefit of this is when you are vigilant and notice things generally like intense emotions, because since intense emotions are excellent DS, what you are doing is actually practicing these DSs. Sadly most of the things you encounter during the day that are dreamlike or intense don't work as DSs, also the ones that are, you are approaching them using awareness and not PM. So it's better to focus on these good DSs like intense emotions instead of bombarting the whole area and hitting less effectively. |
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Last edited by LouaiB; 08-18-2014 at 05:09 PM.
I fill my heart with fire, with passion, passion for what makes me nostalgic. A unique perspective fuels my fire, makes me discover new passions, more nostalgia. I love it.
"People tell dreamers to reality check and realize this is the real world and not one of fantasies, but little do they know that for us Lucid Dreamers, it all starts when the RC fails"
Add me as a friend!!!
Mindfulness / vigilance is not based around "looking for dream signs," it's more about watching yourself and your mind. Notice how you notice things. Staying tuned in, rather than allowing yourself to zone out and run on autopilot. It's about choosing how to respond to interactions rather than letting knee-jerk reactions rule you. And yes, when you're tuned in, you also can notice odd things that are out of place or could be dream-like. |
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FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
“No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
"...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS
Yes, but to get results out of watching yourself and your mind, that needs rational thinking. We miss that in dreams. Instead, Priming and schemas seem to be the blame for these reflective moments. You see, it's not about being vigilant in the dream. While it might help to notice a little more, autopilot does notice most of the things a vigilant mind notices, but the mind lacks rational thinking, semantic memory, ... |
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I fill my heart with fire, with passion, passion for what makes me nostalgic. A unique perspective fuels my fire, makes me discover new passions, more nostalgia. I love it.
"People tell dreamers to reality check and realize this is the real world and not one of fantasies, but little do they know that for us Lucid Dreamers, it all starts when the RC fails"
Add me as a friend!!!
No, LouiaB, in order to get results out of being mindful, you just need to be mindful |
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FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
“No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
"...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS
You aren't actually zoned out as much as you think you are. Vigilance helps, but it's all about the rational thinking. |
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I fill my heart with fire, with passion, passion for what makes me nostalgic. A unique perspective fuels my fire, makes me discover new passions, more nostalgia. I love it.
"People tell dreamers to reality check and realize this is the real world and not one of fantasies, but little do they know that for us Lucid Dreamers, it all starts when the RC fails"
Add me as a friend!!!
I think I know where Fryingman is coming from. He might be thinking of cases like Hukif's, whose "only" LDing day practice is checking if gravity is right 24/7, no mantras, no questioning of reality, no dream signs, etc. He does not even rationalize 'gravity is normal so I'm not dreaming, when it is weird I will be dreaming'. Just checking constantly gravity's effects on his body got him to "natural lucid dreamer" levels. Then Azul followed that technique and got at least daily LDs from that as well. So looks like that constant vigilance, mindfulness, awareness or whatever we call it does work somehow, although they both acknowledge is really difficult. |
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Yeah if you read through many different people's experiences, especiallyy those who achieve high levels of LD frequency after working on it for a long time, they all have some point where they write "it's so simple, all you have to do is XYZ!!! XYZ is the One True Way to LD!". What you're doing, LouaiB, as far as I can see, is framing the discussion in a way that makes sense to YOU, and saying that's the only way that others can frame it because it's the One True Way. Just realize that you're missing an important qualification: "for me." |
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FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
“No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
"...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS
The thread is sufficiently hijacked so... can't hurt. |
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Sorry if I mis-wrote, Hukif, I recalled a message you wrote to me about not just feeling the gravity, but also thinking about why you're feeling it (to conclude: dream/waking). |
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FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
“No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
"...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS
Just a small off-topic, but cannot be stressed enough: |
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I never claimed mindfulness alone gets you lucid, but I believe it is the main day-work ingredient in lucidity. I basically defer to the Tibetan monks who've been doing this for (centuries? Millennia?): their day work isn't just mindfulness, it is mindfulness focused on recognizing all experience is a dream. So their mindfulness is thinking constantly all through the day about dreaming. Of course it includes meditation, but also setting STRONG INTENT at bedtime to become lucid during the night, among other practices (praying to master/gurus/deities to help them get lucid). They also perform a day memory review at bedtime, letting the memories arise themselves (since these are likely to be strong enough for the mind to consider important) considering all memories as dreams. At night they WBTB every two hours and then WILD using particular visualizations. In the morning they do a dream recall review of the nights dreams, feel joy and happiness at recalled dreams and lucidity, and set strong intent to perform the day practice all throughout the day. |
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Last edited by FryingMan; 08-20-2014 at 02:01 PM.
FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
“No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
"...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS
I actually agree with you Zoth; and that is also why the reason I don't actively promote gravity RC, because there has not been enough data for me to work with and propose it as a formal thing or ponder about why/how it exactly works, still waiting on that data. |
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