Thread: 'NEW' Technique Respawned for 2015!

I second all of that. You can not skip the daytime work such as awareness. It is just too key to the issue. Cover every base including everything for DILD or you will have less luck with any method.

NEW AUDIO for CANwild

So Ive created a short audio file for my CANwild atempts.

It is 20 seconds long, it fades in very very gently over the first 10 seconds so as to not jolt you awake. Then there is 2 lines of speech (keep still, start dreaming) and I have put a slight reverb sound effect to create a dreamy like speech, this then fades out over several seconds.

The whole thing is recorded on top of Bliss coded sound

Please feel free to download, comment and criticize, thanks guy

http://goo.gl/TttGKH

Ezzo

^^ That's great, and good luck with it, but I hope you had time to check out the three posts that preceded yours, as they really point to the core of success with any route to LD'ing, including DEILD: if you aren't developing the fundamentals, the best techniques available may fail. If your mind is not prepared to LD, they very likely will not come, and when they do they will not last very long.

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ That's great, and good luck with it, but I hope you had time to check out the three posts that preceded yours, as they really point to the core of success with any route to LD'ing, including DEILD: if you aren't developing the fundamentals, the best techniques available may fail. If your mind is not prepared to LD, they very likely will not come, and when they do they will not last very long.

Hi Sageous, yes i still practise daily meditation and reality checks, I also write my dreams each day so hopefully this will all gel together with practise.

^^ That too is all good, but remember also that you ought to have a good grasp on the fundamentals of LD'ing, which I personally consider to be self-awareness, memory, and expectation/intention. If you aren't doing things during the day to increase the quality of these things, the best techniques in the world might still fail you.

That's all we were trying to say, I think. If you are already working with the fundamentals, that's great; but I just wanted to be clear, in case others reading this assume that DEILD will work simply by doing the technique and ignoring the more tedious efforts to get your head in the right place for LD'ing.

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ That too is all good, but remember also that you ought to have a good grasp on the fundamentals of LD'ing, which I personally consider to be self-awareness, memory, and expectation/intention. If you aren't doing things during the day to increase the quality of these things, the best techniques in the world might still fail you.

That's all we were trying to say, I think. If you are already working with the fundamentals, that's great; but I just wanted to be clear, in case others reading this assume that DEILD will work simply by doing the technique and ignoring the more tedious efforts to get your head in the right place for LD'ing.

Thanks Sageous. I have read your fundementals guide many times over the past months and totally agree that self awareness is key to lucid dreaming. With so much information it is sometimes difficult to 'choose' what to do during the day to increase self awareness.

I appreciate that different things work for different people but even so, can you please critisize my daily routine in case i am doing something fundamentally wrong.

Each 30 mins (approx) I perform a reality check like this ... I slow / pause what im doing and ask myself 'is this a dream?' I really try to imagine that this could be a dream. I then ask myself who i am with, what i am doing and what i was doing previously. I dont give myself long drawn out answers, i simply visualize the answers instead. I then spend a few minutes looking for anything around me that could indicate that im dreaming such as anything illogical in my environment. I then finish with a nose plug. I also spend 30 minutes in the afternoon doing breath meditation.

This all lasts for about 5 minutes each time.

I do think that this thread does indeed need input on the fundamentals so that those reading will not think that just the technique alone is enough.

Can I improve on that reality check above or would you consider it sufficient, and thanks for all the input from everybody

Ezzo

^^ I'm glad that you've checked out my fundamentals thread, Ezzo (though honestly I already had a feeling that you Had! ).

Your RC routine sounds like a good one -- as long as it hasn't become too routine, of course, and still has your interest and sincerity when you're doing them. Hopefully your meditation includes things like contemplating upcoming dreams, practicing a form helpful to LD'ing (like Vipassana), or perhaps opening yourself to a dreamlike feeling; but even if it doesn't, meditation is always a good tool for getting your mind in the right place.

About the only other things I can think of right now are things you very likely are already doing as well:

You ought to be spending time during the day thinking about your upcoming LD and DEILD attempt; thinking about what you'll be doing, where you'll be going, etc. These thoughts might help to build up a place in your mind that is ready to work with your conscious processes during the DEILD, to establish an expectation to DEILD, and to hold onto the dream after you do.

Also, while falling asleep for the first time on the night of your DEILD attempt, you should be sure to set an intention that sounds something like "I will remember my dream when the alarm sounds, and I will return to that dream right away," possibly stated more specifically to your plans.

People are often worried about forming habits when it comes to lds, saying things like "don't let it get too routine" etc. I recommend changing it up after a while so that the habit that you are developing is the habit of raising awareness. Habits aren't bad, but it is easy to develop a bad habit.

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ I'm glad that you've checked out my fundamentals thread, Ezzo (though honestly I already had a feeling that you Had! ).

Your RC routine sounds like a good one -- as long as it hasn't become too routine, of course, and still has your interest and sincerity when you're doing them. Hopefully your meditation includes things like contemplating upcoming dreams, practicing a form helpful to LD'ing (like Vipassana), or perhaps opening yourself to a dreamlike feeling; but even if it doesn't, meditation is always a good tool for getting your mind in the right place.

About the only other things I can think of right now are things you very likely are already doing as well:

You ought to be spending time during the day thinking about your upcoming LD and DEILD attempt; thinking about what you'll be doing, where you'll be going, etc. These thoughts might help to build up a place in your mind that is ready to work with your conscious processes during the DEILD, to establish an expectation to DEILD, and to hold onto the dream after you do.

Also, while falling asleep for the first time on the night of your DEILD attempt, you should be sure to set an intention that sounds something like "I will remember my dream when the alarm sounds, and I will return to that dream right away," possibly stated more specifically to your plans.

Thanks again for all the great advice. Ive been looking to spice up my seated meditation. Is vipassani a good method for lucid dreaming? If so, why is this more beneficial over, say, breathif meditation?

Thanks
Ezzo

Hey,
I have tried this Alarm-DEILD (CANwild sounds weird, sorry) for 10 days, so about 70 attempts, none of which were successful. I used the 2 second auto-snooze with the default beep sound. The during the first few days I adjusted the volume, and I think it was good because half the time I feel asleep too quickly. I wasn't doing any RCs during the day, or meditation. I have had a dozen lucids before using SSILD in a month and a half, without doing RCs during the day, ever since Cosmic Iron said they were pointless. I thought this Alarm-DEILD would give me more success, I think I'll stick to SSILD and start doing RCs after reading the GREAT links you guys have posted. This technique sounded too good to be true ;(
Actually, I'm gonna give this 3 more days, but I'll be doing Raduga's indirect techniques just to see if it's just the transition into the dream that's not working for me (apparently the indirect techniques have a very high success rate).
Will post back soon.
Thanks.

Originally Posted by warlockfire1

Hey,
I have tried this Alarm-DEILD (CANwild sounds weird, sorry) for 10 days, so about 70 attempts, none of which were successful. I used the 2 second auto-snooze with the default beep sound. The during the first few days I adjusted the volume, and I think it was good because half the time I feel asleep too quickly. I wasn't doing any RCs during the day, or meditation. I have had a dozen lucids before using SSILD in a month and a half, without doing RCs during the day, ever since Cosmic Iron said they were pointless. I thought this Alarm-DEILD would give me more success, I think I'll stick to SSILD and start doing RCs after reading the GREAT links you guys have posted. This technique sounded too good to be true ;(
Actually, I'm gonna give this 3 more days, but I'll be doing Raduga's indirect techniques just to see if it's just the transition into the dream that's not working for me (apparently the indirect techniques have a very high success rate).
Will post back soon.
Thanks.

Well 10 days isn't very long. Especially if you have no experience other than this. Are you still practicing the fundamentals?

I feel like falling asleep too quickly usually is because of a bad sleep schedule. When I am on a good sleep schedule, I am never really "tired" throughout the day or night.

Originally Posted by ezzolucid

Thanks again for all the great advice. Ive been looking to spice up my seated meditation. Is vipassani a good method for lucid dreaming? If so, why is this more beneficial over, say, breathif meditation?

Thanks
Ezzo

I personally recommend Vipassana yoga/meditation, because its focus seems to be mainly on calmly centering your mind on your presence in the moment, including (through observation) your presence and participation in reality. This is an excellent state of mind to establish for LD'ing because it ties right into the experience of lucidity (and dreaming in general), perhaps giving you a leg up in both appreciating your presence in the dream, and helping with dream control as well: when lucid you are experiencing a potentially pure here & now moment within a "reality" with which you are not only interacting, but is actually all "You;" I think Vipassana yoga is a good practice to help prepare you to comfortably note your presence in that interaction, and to acknowledge that the dream is all you... in other words, it seems to hit just the right buttons for lucidity without taking you to places that might not be very helpful.

Most Vipassana meditations generally use breathing as well, so it won't be too alien for you, though its practice works just as well -- if not better -- while not seated.

For me, the trouble with breath meditation on its own is that the focus tends to be on using your attention to breathing to relax you, to basically empty your mind of everything except the action of that breathing. This is great for settling your mind, clearing it of unwanted thoughts, and getting you to a peaceful place consciously, and I certainly have no problem with that. However, lucidity depends on your thoughts: dreaming is thought, and anything you can do to elevate thoughts related to your dream, or the actual state of dreaming (as Vipassana does) will be most helpful; pushing those thoughts aside, and getting good at pushing those thoughts aside, might prove a deterrent to successful lucidity.

Also, on a more practical note: breath meditation tends to keep you awake, so it is not the best thing to do, say, during a WILD/DEILD attempt -- I know you don't do this, but thought it worth mentioning.


tl;dr: The experience of Vipassana meditation tends to line up nicely with the experience of LD'ing, while straight breath meditation tends to take a step away from the experience of LD'ing.

Ezzo, i have had 66% success (at least 1 LD per night attempt) with alarm deild, even better when coupled with wbtb. I used the same settings as you.
I think this approach has great promise specially If coupled with REM detection.
I stoped using it because it was annoying for me and sometimes my family, but this is sth that can be improved and i am sure someone will make a nice device.

Besides and more importantly i am now putting all my energy to increase my awareness and perception of reality, which i think adresses the problem of both day and night lucidity at its root.

That is to say, i think DEILD is the best technique for most people but not the ultimate solution for the spiritually mistically inclined lucid dreamer, which probably aims for an integration of day and night consciousness

Yeah I've tried this technique before. I use an android app called "Alarm Clock Xtreme". Does same thing. I set it to set off every like 10 min after a wbtb, only playing for 5-10s. But, me being me, a complete alien to you guys , I never actually wake up!! Dubstep! I'll have to put dubstep now when I try it again tonight!! Finally I just figured out the solution right now in the spot while typing this!! xD

Thank you for this post ezzolucid! I was already giving DEILD a go for a while before reading your post and I got discouraged with the method, but your enthusiasm is contagious

Can anyone recommend an iOS alarm besides alarm clock bud? I've used it before and I'm not really satisfied with it.

Originally Posted by Emnition

Thank you for this post ezzolucid! I was already giving DEILD a go for a while before reading your post and I got discouraged with the method, but your enthusiasm is contagious

Can anyone recommend an iOS alarm besides alarm clock bud? I've used it before and I'm not really satisfied with it.

Why are you not satisfied with alarm clockbud? It is extremely flexible.

If it may be helpful for someone, or just for the sake of the dicussion i used an android app and set it to beep every 15 or 30 min, after usually 5 hours of sleep, for 3-5 seconds. I choosed a particular ringtone, and stick to it.
When combining these settings with long WBTBs, and i mean no less than 4 hours wbtb sorry, which i could manage on weekends and holidays, i achieved success in 2/3 attempts. But it demanded a rigorous sleep schedule, which i could manage during the experiment days. Without wbtb, my success rate is maybe 30-40 percent.
The alarm will sporadically ring in the middle of the Rem phase and if you are still drowsy and can fall asleep you can attempt a Deild. Upon hearing the alaram, I usually immediately feel the residue of the dream body and try to stimulate it by moving dream body parts and gettiing out of bed. Then usually i just fly through the window of my room lol

@vagaltone Is having a steady sleep schedule THAT important?? It's hard for me to do that now.

Also you're motivating me so much to try to succeed at this technique lol
My only problem is that I need a noisy alarm and my family hates that (small apartment). But now to think of it, I do my wbtb after i get back from college, which is before anyone arrives home (I sleep for like 6 hours then wake up to go to college). I guess this should work out, and also if i stick to it, my sleep schedule would work out.

Now all i need to do is decide between an NCS track or a noisia one. Hmmmm.....

Originally Posted by LouaiB

@vagaltone Is having a steady sleep schedule THAT important?? It's hard for me to do that now.

Also you're motivating me so much to try to succeed at this technique lol
My only problem is that I need a noisy alarm and my family hates that (small apartment). But now to think of it, I do my wbtb after i get back from college, which is before anyone arrives home (I sleep for like 6 hours then wake up to go to college). I guess this should work out, and also if i stick to it, my sleep schedule would work out.

Now all i need to do is decide between an NCS track or a noisia one. Hmmmm.....

I think it was important, but i havent tried a normal hectic sleep schedule so..but i noticed that if i was tired i needed to ajust the alarm, either to be more lousy or longer. So i figured that if i could sleep with the same level of sleepiness everyday, i could keep my alarm settings stable and fine tune it much better. Otherwise it may be more difficult to find the sweet spot because one is always changing some variables lol.

But yeah, i think you have a good opportunity to try during an afternoon nap. Good luck

Hey ezzo, I've been reading all the posts on this thread, and this method seems very interesting to me. I definitely have to try it out. But, I was just wondering one thing. Why do you set your alarm to go off every 15 minutes after 7 hours of waiting?

Like I know sleep cycles go by 90 minute intervals with REM cycles at the end of each interval, the length of the REM cycle getting longer as the night progresses. But why would you want an alarm to keep going off every 15 minutes? It seems to me that you let the alarm go off after 7 hours, and you try the DEILD, if it fails you go to sleep normally and have to wait another 90 minutes for the next REM cycle. Am I missing something?

Originally Posted by fatalcubez

Hey ezzo, I've been reading all the posts on this thread, and this method seems very interesting to me. I definitely have to try it out. But, I was just wondering one thing. Why do you set your alarm to go off every 15 minutes after 7 hours of waiting?

Like I know sleep cycles go by 90 minute intervals with REM cycles at the end of each interval, the length of the REM cycle getting longer as the night progresses. But why would you want an alarm to keep going off every 15 minutes? It seems to me that you let the alarm go off after 7 hours, and you try the DEILD, if it fails you go to sleep normally and have to wait another 90 minutes for the next REM cycle. Am I missing something?

When you interrupt a rem cycle, it will restart again (and extend) as soon as you go back to sleep.

Also, i feel that if you interrupt a dream / REM sleep and get everything 'just right' then any technique will get you into the dream. As VigaTone says, he feels for residue of a dream body and tries to stimulate a limb and this helps him to 'roll out' of his body. Some others visualize the last dream and some simply lie there retaining awareness with a mantra.

It dont matter what vehicle you use as long as you complete the journey

For me I have an elaborate set up which took a whilst to figure out which is this:

I have an Apple watch (iWatch) and it vibrates onto the wrist when my iPhone rings. So i downloaded an app that automatically rings my phone at set intervals (i choose each 20 mins after about 6 hours of sleep). I wear my iwatch to bed and it vibrates without any sound several times during REM

I also programmed my iphone to go to answerphone after 20 rings so this means that not only does it vibrate but it switches off automatically - quality! :-)

Ezzo

Ezzo

Originally Posted by Sageous

I personally recommend Vipassana yoga/meditation, because its focus seems to be mainly on calmly centering your mind on your presence in the moment, including (through observation) your presence and participation in reality. This is an excellent state of mind to establish for LD'ing because it ties right into the experience of lucidity (and dreaming in general), perhaps giving you a leg up in both appreciating your presence in the dream, and helping with dream control as well: when lucid you are experiencing a potentially pure here & now moment within a "reality" with which you are not only interacting, but is actually all "You;" I think Vipassana yoga is a good practice to help prepare you to comfortably note your presence in that interaction, and to acknowledge that the dream is all you... in other words, it seems to hit just the right buttons for lucidity without taking you to places that might not be very helpful.

Most Vipassana meditations generally use breathing as well, so it won't be too alien for you, though its practice works just as well -- if not better -- while not seated.

For me, the trouble with breath meditation on its own is that the focus tends to be on using your attention to breathing to relax you, to basically empty your mind of everything except the action of that breathing. This is great for settling your mind, clearing it of unwanted thoughts, and getting you to a peaceful place consciously, and I certainly have no problem with that. However, lucidity depends on your thoughts: dreaming is thought, and anything you can do to elevate thoughts related to your dream, or the actual state of dreaming (as Vipassana does) will be most helpful; pushing those thoughts aside, and getting good at pushing those thoughts aside, might prove a deterrent to successful lucidity.

Also, on a more practical note: breath meditation tends to keep you awake, so it is not the best thing to do, say, during a WILD/DEILD attempt -- I know you don't do this, but thought it worth mentioning.


tl;dr: The experience of Vipassana meditation tends to line up nicely with the experience of LD'ing, while straight breath meditation tends to take a step away from the experience of LD'ing.

As I see it: the purpose of Samatha (focus meditation, on e.g. the breathe) meditation is to build the ability to focus attention. I'd say it is a prerequisite to vipassana, which I like to summarize as "focused attention on awareness." When one can not yet focus the mind effectively on something simple like the breath, trying to focus on something as complex as awareness will be much harder or ineffective.

Also, breath meditation is a great way to start a session and then move on to vipassana once your mind is settled .

So I think both are useful. Samatha as a lead-in to Vipassana, and samatha also as a great way to combat insomnia, and get your WILD attempts started. In neither approach is one supposed to fall asleep, so some adaptation for LD practice is needed to tip the balance towards relaxation, say in a WILD dive.

It seems that a WILD or DEILD attempt is simply a meditation session close to REM with the intention of falling asleep. I always WILD and DEILD by simply focusing on my mantra (stay aware, stay aware). I never bother with visualizing a scene as im happy to start the dream from my 'dream bedroom'

I bought a book 'Mindfullness in plain English' which is all about Vipassana but uses breath concentration to ease into the awareness / mindfulness practise.


Ezzo