Thread: No LDs! How do you know you are progressing?

Hi all ,
I wondered what sign posts to look for in my NLDs that Im making progress in Lucid dream practice.
I’ve been at this for 4.5 months And had 1 lucid after the first 3weeks of beginning and nothing since.

Is it like a blind faith situation After many months may be a year You start having LDs or are there subtitle signs progress is happening.

I’m currently relaxing my efforts for 4 or 5days as I’m getting frustrated with the whole thing and can feel I’m “grabbing” at it. Could probably do with a week off but don’t want to lose the work I’ve done so far.

day time practice - DJ, RC after waking up, 1 time PMRCs, usual dream related RCs, mindful moments, morning meditation. Mental day review before going to be bed to engage recall memory

Bed time practice-Memory affirmation, bodyscan/ meditation in bed then Mild technique- “when I see people I know I will RC“
Then I recall images of them From dreams As I lay there And say to myself “am I dreaming? Rc” I’ll either do this until I nod off or do it until I feel sleepy and then do SSild to bring awareness to the body.

What are some things that give you satisfaction in your non-lucid dream practice? Having a satisfying non-lucid dream practice will keep you motivated.

Has your non-lucid attitude in dreams changed? It's not necessary to be lucid to see our attitude and beliefs have changed to be more lucid (more in alignment with the knowledge that you are dreaming). An example of this is sometimes noticing dangers are illusory (this can lead to lucidity but it can also not). Another example, the other day I saw a dream pattern and recognized it as such, and quickly commented on my dream attitude, without gaining "lucidity."

When I wake and recall I’ve questioned events or objects in the dream this helps but usually I ask one question then either confabulate a reason and don’t question it further or a dream character gives me an answer and I don’t question it further. Apart from that I usually get annoyed that once again I’ve missed the most reoccurring dream sign I have - seeing people I know.

I’ve never seen my self RC in my dreams the closest I think I’ve come was once putting my hand in my pocket and feeling a small bag of something and On another occasion looking at a coin with kanji Marks written on It ( as I looked at the coin I thought “this is similar to my...oh look at the Japanese writing that’s cool”) one of my RCs is trying to break a Totem in my right pocket With my right hand( 3 coins I’ve glue together it has a particular feel. And weight to it)

Originally Posted by Ant101

When I wake and recall I’ve questioned events or objects in the dream this helps but usually I ask one question then either confabulate a reason and don’t question it further or a dream character gives me an answer and I don’t question it further. Apart from that I usually get annoyed that once again I’ve missed the most reoccurring dream sign I have - seeing people I know.

I’ve never seen my self RC in my dreams the closest I think I’ve come was once putting my hand in my pocket and feeling a small bag of something and On another occasion looking at a coin with kanji Marks written on It ( as I looked at the coin I thought “this is similar to my...oh look at the Japanese writing that’s cool”) one of my RCs is trying to break a Totem in my right pocket With my right hand( 3 coins I’ve glue together it has a particular feel. And weight to it)

Okay. First thing. Don't get annoyed when this happens. Getting annoyed and frustrated is going to set you back from your goal. Think of it as a positive sign you're at least questioning your state. And, a plus, now you know where you need to grow: critical reflective attitude.

If you're missing your dream sign (people you know - kind of vague), then you need a different dream sign. I would go more specific. Are you RCing in daytime waking reality to everyone you know? No? Then you can't expect to do that in a dream.

When you describe the coin, you lost your focus and got distracted by the dream image. What that says to me is that you need to build your present moment awareness. Meditate more.

Your RC target (totem) is a bit complicated. Try to keep it simple, although you had a great success one time with putting your hand in your pocket! Celebrate that. I strongly recommend looking at your hands. They're always there, and so very easy to look at. No complicated motions, no breaking anything.


Most importantly: Celebrate your successes, no matter how small! You need to build the positive momentum to get the ball rolling. It's like a snowball effect. Once you see yourself succeed, you will be motivated to try more, and you will succeed even more just from that mental attitude.

Hm. Are you doing enough daytime RCs? I would pick 4 triggers that are not related to dream signs (always RC to those). I use light/fan switches, sound of running water, using a key, and tasting something sour. Try to RC a lot more often. Look at your hands frequently.

Also, is it possible that your mantra does not inspire enough of that wonderful excitement feeling? I think mantras work similar to positive affirmations. I would pick one that makes you feel excited. Like.. "When I dream, I am lucidly aware." something that has to do with lucid dreaming, because that's your excitement point. Not RCing.. that's not exciting. It's a subtle difference in feeling state, I think it matters.

Keep increasing meditation, too. Think of it like getting in shape.

Also. Sorry double post, but to answer your original question..

Is your recall increasing? That's a sign of heading the direction.

Are you having moments of doubt in your dreams? (like, last night, I was thinking, why are those bananas on that tree so big? This is weird...?) That kind of thing. That getting closer, and a sign of building critical reflective attitude.

Are you having failed RC moments in dreams? (looking at your hands and not becoming lucid?) That's actually a good sign.

Are you becoming lucid for 1-2 second and then fear or some other emotion wakes you up?

That's kind of like the progression I have been seeing, maybe you are seeing the same?

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

Also. Sorry double post, but to answer your original question..

Is your recall increasing? That's a sign of heading the direction.

Are you having moments of doubt in your dreams? (like, last night, I was thinking, why are those bananas on that tree so big? This is weird...?) That kind of thing. That getting closer, and a sign of building critical reflective attitude.

Are you having failed RC moments in dreams? (looking at your hands and not becoming lucid?) That's actually a good sign.

Are you becoming lucid for 1-2 second and then fear or some other emotion wakes you up?

That's kind of like the progression I have been seeing, maybe you are seeing the same?

I would say I’m definitely doing enough RCs I set my self 6 daily non related RCs to notice the very next time they happen. I also do dream related RCs I also periodically ask myself where am I? what was I doing before I got here? Then look around , feel my foot on the ground, feel my clothes on the body, I take note of my field of vision periodically I’ll ask when did I get dressed sometimes I will run back through the days events to the point where I got out of bed. I occasionally think what would this scenario look like in a dream.

As for the mantra no it dosent excite me at all!
I’m trying to embed an instruction in my mind.

Dream recall is sporadic 3 nights ago I recalled the longest dream todate this morning a few fragments In the past I’ll have a 3 or 4 dreams recalled then the next night nothing then back to 3 or 5 dreams I could have recall for 2weeks then a 2 or 3 day drought. I could probably work on recall but then again how do you know when enough is enough.


I know the dream signs when I’m awake of the dream world- people I know or people I know I haven’t seen in years, this dull foggy minded feeling that dosent allow me to think or question anything outside of my vision I feel almost like a train on a track there’s a set direction and no way to change direction/pace , Film like sittuations, Usually fast paced actions so I don’t really have time to stop and reflect there’s always something to keep me from taking 10seconds to have a look around and reflect. Other signs -I never look at my feet. I Never notice my breath or blinking, in dreams my field of vision is usually narrow unless it’s very vivid. Forgetfulness- I had a dream where I was asked where my motorbike was and I couldn’t remember because in real life I don’t have a motorbike lol.

6 RCs/day is low. I would be doing 20+, set yourself enough goals. If you do it this frequently, you WILL see yourself do it in a dream. The hard part, then becomes not getting too excited

3-5 recall is enough. It doesn't have to be everyday, we all need nights off.

Find a mantra that lights your fire.

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

6 RCs/day is low. I would be doing 20+, set yourself enough goals. If you do it this frequently, you WILL see yourself do it in a dream. The hard part, then becomes not getting too excited

3-5 recall is enough. It doesn't have to be everyday, we all need nights off.

Find a mantra that lights your fire.

I do more than 6 Im definitely doing around 15-20 as well trying to always keep the thought I could be dreaming on my mind and how would I know?- at some point today I will be dreaming could it be now. But as of yet that thought has not emerged in the dream world that I’ve been aware of anyway.

This is something that I want todo for the rest of my life, I want to learn more about the way my mind functions, I want to use LDing to develop my spiritual practice and I also wanna have some fun with it , so I know it’s a process and not something with an end date on it.

The frustration comes in when I don’t know if progress is being made because my markers have been o I’m not lucid, so is it time to switch up tactics or stick with - some people advocate sticking with a technique for months work on it- others will recite the definition of insanity( doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result)

Haha can You feel my frustration. Thank you for your replies by the way.

Originally Posted by Ant101

The frustration comes in when I don’t know if progress is being made because my markers have been o I’m not lucid, so is it time to switch up tactics or stick with - some people advocate sticking with a technique for months work on it- others will recite the definition of insanity( doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result)

Haha can You feel my frustration. Thank you for your replies by the way.

Working out over and over expecting different results is not insanity. These things take time. Stick with it, I say. Might want to refine techniques, though.

You're welcome. I know it's frustrating. I get that way too. If we redirect ourselves to stay focused on the positive and continue our hard work, I know we will succeed.

Originally Posted by Ant101

I’m currently relaxing my efforts for 4 or 5days as I’m getting frustrated with the whole thing and can feel I’m “grabbing” at it. Could probably do with a week off but don’t want to lose the work I’ve done so far.

A scheduled break isn't a bad idea at all. As an analogy, if you were training your physical body you would have to plan for recovery from exercise as well as the exercise itself in order to be effective. The rest in this case isn't a result of laziness or neglect, it's there to support the training. Knowing when to rest is just as important as knowing when to take action, and it does take some experimentation and observation to find the sweet spot. One of the cool things about dreams is the interaction between the conscious and subconscious portions of the mind. It's a bit like a conversation. You want to add something to the interaction to keep it going and move it in an interesting direction, but if you were to monologue continuously you'd have no chance to hear any response or gain anything new

Originally Posted by Occipitalred

What are some things that give you satisfaction in your non-lucid dream practice? Having a satisfying non-lucid dream practice will keep you motivated.

I second this. I personally like to use my dream journaling time for appreciation practice on top of the recall practice. As you start noticing and really appreciating various aspects of your dreams, you're sending your mind the message, "This is cool, more of this please." Enjoying where you are won't hurt your goals and standards, it'll just make them a lot more fun to achieve along with everything leading up to them.

Originally Posted by Ant101

This is something that I want todo for the rest of my life, I want to learn more about the way my mind functions, I want to use LDing to develop my spiritual practice and I also wanna have some fun with it , so I know it’s a process and not something with an end date on it.

The frustration comes in when I don’t know if progress is being made because my markers have been o I’m not lucid, so is it time to switch up tactics or stick with

I think you're on the right track shifting to a more analog view of lucidity. There are different levels of awareness, vividness, and dream control before realizing you're dreaming just as you'll find there are different degrees of awareness after you start realizing you're dreaming. There's no shortage of ways to categorize NLDs. Degree of recall, level of clarity, how much they diverge from waking life scenarios (which could make you more or less likely to become lucid depending on the techniques you're using), how much influence you exert over the dream despite not recognizing you're dreaming, how many aspects you wanted to include in a LD made it into your NLD, how often you noticed something strange, how often you thought or talked about the subject of dreaming during the dream, etc.

It may also be worth taking stock of existing dream elements that are working in your favor so you can take advantage of them and use them for inspiration - dreamsigns, characters talking to you about dreaming, odd events and details - as well as elements that might be working against you so you can prepare for those effectively. For example you mentioned DCs talking you out of questioning the dream. If you have someone you're comfortable talking to about dreams, you could literally run this scenario while awake. Ask them something like, "What if this is a dream?" If they're disbelieving or laugh it off, great! You can practice the thought process you'd need to come to your own conclusion regardless. What if you lead them through an RC and they tell you it's not a dream? Have you confirmed for yourself yet? And so on.

I remember feeling this way when I was trying to get my first lucid and had been at it for months and month and months, in high-school. The frustration over trying to get DILDs to happen is why I ultimately turned to WILDs, because I felt like at least I had some control over when I would make an attempt at that, while DILDs were simply waiting for it to happen on its own.

If it's any consolation: once you start having DILDs semi-regularly, it's almost hard to stop (I've been having them once a month or so for years without even thinking about LDs; I have no idea what my correct LD count is), so you won't have to work so hard forever.

In the meantime you might try some other techniques just to keep things fresh while you work on your RCs and such. Perhaps it's what you mean by "mindful moments," but I remember I first started having DILDs regularly when I replaced "reality checks" during the day with stopping to ask myself, "where have I been in the past 5 minutes, what am I doing, and does it make sense/seem normal?" Once I started asking myself those questions 10 or so times a day, and really stopping to consider the answers, the LDs started rolling in a lot more than when I was just doing lots of reality checks related to specific stimuli.

If you just need a break from DILD practice, or want to tone it down temporarily, why not try WILDs/DEILDs with some WBTB stuff? My first/one of my first (I can't remember anymore) LDs was a WILD, so you may be like me and experience early success with it where DILDs were harder, or it may just make for a nice break.

Originally Posted by lifeinsteps

I remember feeling this way when I was trying to get my first lucid and had been at it for months and month and months, in high-school. The frustration over trying to get DILDs to happen is why I ultimately turned to WILDs, because I felt like at least I had some control over when I would make an attempt at that, while DILDs were simply waiting for it to happen on its own.

If it's any consolation: once you start having DILDs semi-regularly, it's almost hard to stop (I've been having them once a month or so for years without even thinking about LDs; I have no idea what my correct LD count is), so you won't have to work so hard forever.

In the meantime you might try some other techniques just to keep things fresh while you work on your RCs and such. Perhaps it's what you mean by "mindful moments," but I remember I first started having DILDs regularly when I replaced "reality checks" during the day with stopping to ask myself, "where have I been in the past 5 minutes, what am I doing, and does it make sense/seem normal?" Once I started asking myself those questions 10 or so times a day, and really stopping to consider the answers, the LDs started rolling in a lot more than when I was just doing lots of reality checks related to specific stimuli.

If you just need a break from DILD practice, or want to tone it down temporarily, why not try WILDs/DEILDs with some WBTB stuff? My first/one of my first (I can't remember anymore) LDs was a WILD, so you may be like me and experience early success with it where DILDs were harder, or it may just make for a nice break.

Yeah my RCs do three things remind of a reoccurring dream sign . Then prompt me to pause and be aware. Aware of my feet on the ground,
the sensation of my clothes on my body and the breath moving my body then I look around at where i am ask is this normal, how is my field of vision can I change or add anything to this place just by thinking it ? Then I will ask myself where I was before I came here and before that then what am I going to do after this. Sometimes I will look at my clothes and ask when did I get dressed where was I and what time did I get dressed.

I will look round once More then do my RCs which are expecting my totem to break that I keep in my pocket( break: like snapping a buiscuit in half with one hand) And two fingers through the palm.
If my RCs fail which so far they have I tell myself “be vigilant at some point today I will be dreaming”

When I’m not actively RCing The thought this could be a dream is not far from my mind. And I do the whole so where was I before this what can hear what can I see and consider the fact that I’m awareness in a body inside a building in a town and that I’m part of that town.

So are you suggesting that I carry on With MILD practice during the day and before I go to bed, then if I wake in the night, as I sometimes do, to try a WiLD to keep things interesting?

I have read that some people advocate this. During the day practice a long term practice such as Those required for MIlD and at night try the more “quicker” More in control approach such as WILD. I’ve been focusing on MiLd because most people say it’s “easy” - and i also don’t want to have to wake during the night if it can be helped, just to get lucid But if it gets me a few more lucids and gets more mined more attuned to the process of becoming LUcid then I’m all for it.

Your RC process sounds fine to me, and if you feel you are on a good path with MILD I would say stick it out. I never had much luck with MILD despite its reputation for easiness but I think it just didn't click with me. Then again after a week of practice since I returned, I'm having a dry-spell with WILDs that's starting to get pretty discouraging too (though a week is nothing to months, so I gotta stay on it too).

As far as waking during the night, I would actually highly recommend it no matter what you're practicing. I know that most people have an aversion to it, but take it from someone who currently has three alarms set every night and a fairly full waking schedule, it's not actually that bad. The good thing about doing it is that your dream recall will certainly be better, because you're waking yourself up throughout the night, giving yourself more time to recall earlier dreams that would have been easily lost to the void. If your alarm wakes you up close to or during a dream, that is a good time to try a WILD also, but even if you just go back to sleep with your regular practice, being "reminded" once or twice a night will surely only help (my latest DILD came after a WBTB and failed WILD attempt). Some advocate a longer WBTB time, I suggest as long as it takes for you to record what you remember from your dreams (however is easiest, I use a voice memo), maybe get up and use the restroom, and then immediately lie back down and sleep again, so that it doesn't ruin your sleep.

Incidentally, I find that I wake up extremely hard and groggy in the morning normally, but when I wake up 2-3 times a night I wake up feeling light and refreshed because I haven't been knocked out a straight 9 hours (or whatever). So it has its upsides. The downside is mostly just waking up so much, but once you get used to it, it doesn't really affect your sleep at all.

Anyway, that's my WBTB sales pitch. If you do happen to wake in the middle of the night anyway, I would say most definitely, try for either a WILD or a DEILD (realize you're awake, lie still with your eyes shut, and WILD without moving essentially-- it'll go by in seconds if you pull it off). But intentional waking up isn't so bad as most people expect, mostly just the first few days when you're adjusting to it.

I guess regarding your normal practice: you sound very learned and like you've read a lot about it, much how I was back then when I was reading everything I could. I think for me what I described (and what it sounds like you're already doing) was the breakthrough that finally came after more than a year that got me going with my LDs, when I had just had them spontaneously months apart at first. I dunno if it was the technique or just the cumulative experience, but my humble opinion is this: sometimes when you get used to doing some method of practice for a long time, it becomes so rote that even when you are trying to put your all into it, you're subconsciously just doing it because you know you're supposed to be doing it. I think the reason switching practices often works (I got a successful WILD after a dry spell the first time I tried 'FILD,' even though it generally doesn't work for me) is because it suddenly is new to you again and you treat it seriously, necessarily, combined with the experience you've accumulated with your normal routine.

So some haphazard advice I would wager may help would be that if you're lucky, there may be a post buried somewhere you haven't read that suggests some wacky technique-- or maybe one you skipped over thinking it was a little ridiculous (it happened for me). If you go back and try that technique, or find one you haven't seen, it may be just what you need to put you over the edge just because of the novelty of it. Otherwise, you may try inventing your own techniques, by watching how you dream and thinking about how best you get yourself to remember things in real-life. If you can get yourself to remember it frequently in real-life unbidden, you will certainly remember it in a dream. If you practice WBTBs and have a lot of dream journal with good recall (which it sounds like your dream journal is coming along well anyway), that will certainly help that process.

And again otherwise, if there's just nothing new to be had, dropping your practice totally for a week and just doing something else probably won't hurt either. When you come back you'll be less frustrated, it'll seem new(-ish) to you again (perhaps helping with the previously stated effect), and the way human brains are, you may stupidly have an LD while you're not practicing at all. Because it's just like that sometimes.

Either way, don't give up. I feel as though I'm starting again as a beginner right now after several years of no LDs, and having trouble getting it going again too. Taking a short break never really hurts though imo, as long as it's not an 8 year break like me lol.

think you're on the right track shifting to a more analog view of lucidity. There are different levels of awareness, vividness, and dream control before realizing you're dreaming just as you'll find there are different degrees of awareness after you start realizing you're dreaming. There's no shortage of ways to categorize NLDs. Degree of recall, level of clarity, how much they diverge from waking life scenarios (which could make you more or less likely to become lucid depending on the techniques you're using), how much influence you exert over the dream despite not recognizing you're dreaming, how many aspects you wanted to include in a LD made it into your NLD, how often you noticed something strange, how often you thought or talked about the subject of dreaming during the

This makes sense on reflection. I’ve been rereading my DJ entry’s and I absolutely agree some dreams are so life like I recall waking one morning and thinking I had no chance of becoming lucid everything looked so real, then other mornings I think “how the F¥$k! Did I not become lucid”

I’ve had two dreams since writing this post where I’m looking at something or for something in the dream and I get the feeling somethings not right I’m looking around but I can’t put my finger on it, not even close to working out what it is , it’s like confusion and forgetfulness rolled into one I’m confused but I know somethings off. 🤞 this is the seeds Of my efforts beginning to break the surface of the soil, if I have a few more of these I will feel more confident progress is being made.

Thanks for your input.

Originally Posted by Ant101

I’ve had two dreams since writing this post where I’m looking at something or for something in the dream and I get the feeling somethings not right I’m looking around but I can’t put my finger on it, not even close to working out what it is , it’s like confusion and forgetfulness rolled into one I’m confused but I know somethings off. 🤞 this is the seeds Of my efforts beginning to break the surface of the soil, if I have a few more of these I will feel more confident progress is being made.

That's a great sign! Most of my DILDs are immediately preceded by that feeling. That confusion can be very useful. Good luck cultivating those seeds

Originally Posted by nautilus

That's a great sign! Most of my DILDs are immediately preceded by that feeling. That confusion can be very useful. Good luck cultivating those seeds

Definitely a good sign.

I dont think its blind faith. Perhaps your just persistent with the wrong methods. Everyone's different especially since there's really no set induction method. I did notice documenting in dj (within 5 minutes upon waking) being slightly more descriptive, appeared to increase my probability. I'm somewhat lost my faith in reality checks last year. Doing about 50 a day (I put dream symbols above my door entrance) didnt really seem to help. However I acknowledge someone else may easily have more success w this. Anyway have you considered buying a rem mask? I think it's another 'what's new' topic here. One user replied they're now 60$. I'm eager to try this and it could very well help.

I haven't had a lucid dream in months, and over the last years I've only had enough that they can be counted on the fingers of my hands anyway.

Even so, I know I have made progress with my overall dreaming because a lot of my writing and re-reading of my dreams through my DJing has made real changes for me in how I approach specific problems in life or how I feel about particular situations. I feel this is relevant in the sense of getting to lucidity because if I always allowed myself to be reactive instead of thoughtful, I would still be the angry and abundantly anxious teen that I was many years ago and then I truly would have had no chance to now reflect on what is happening around me, at the same time that it happens.

And there are situations I want to see more in dreams that do happen more than they ever used to, I am almost beginning to feel I that I can direct feeling in much the same way that thoughts can be directed and while some situations aren't consciously desired, they serve as good reminders that actually, I needed to dream about that specific subject, even though it had not recently been relevant in my waking life. As a specific example I recently had a dream relating to my (now dormant) arachnophobia, where the subject of being surprised by arachnids manifested and as a result of my on-going conscious attitudes, even in this non-lucid, my dream-self was able to deal with that situation adequately.

I too have this issue where I will ask dream characters about odd dream-reality things and they'll dismiss it and I'll accept their version of the truth; I also have the issue where I perform reality checks and still allow myself to believe that I'm not dreaming because I overlooked a detail or two about what just happened, or was distracted by something else in the dream's context... There's so many situations of this kind that I do consider frustrating at times, but like MoonageDaydream said, redirecting to focus on the positives from the experience is pretty important.

---

Speaking of seeds and cultivation, I think there's a lot of that which goes on, at least in my case, where I start to want to resolve particular issues even about dreaming, and they start to come up on their own if I give them some time to do so. Even conscious creativity can take a while to get going and in many ways and certain aspects of it can't be forced either; I have recently started to feel like the dreaming process is very similar to the creative process, with one difference being that certain aspects of it do not cross the thresholds required for conscious thoughts to fully form.

I feel there are things at work which are more or less literally at the back of my head, I can't explain it; like somehow I am reaching a more intuitive connection with this, but on a level that strictly speaking, I wouldn't call "conscious" or relating to reason, but relating to feeling and non-verbalised thought.

I've gone pretty verbose here and yet feel I haven't said much... In summary, don't give up, there are a lot of aspects that can feel frustrating but there really is no rush, as at the end of the day there are plenty of other positives to be gained and felt even from non-lucids and the measure of steady progress often does not become evident until quite a long time has passed anyway.

I did want to ask something to those here who mentioned WBTB and mid-sleep alarms, etc.

Do you have a partner/significant other with whom you sleep with? If you do, how do you deal with that aspect when setting an alarm for doing WBTBs? The main reason I haven't done these in years (which I did find effective in some senses) is that I can't reliably wake myself up without waking my partner up; even without an alarm, whenever one of us becomes awake, the other tends to become awake too.

My partner is not into dreaming in the same way that I am, so interruptions to their sleep are not as welcome. I haven't done a WBTB in over five years as a result of this, anyway.

Originally Posted by DarkestDarkness

I did want to ask something to those here who mentioned WBTB and mid-sleep alarms, etc.

Do you have a partner/significant other with whom you sleep with? If you do, how do you deal with that aspect when setting an alarm for doing WBTBs? The main reason I haven't done these in years (which I did find effective in some senses) is that I can't reliably wake myself up without waking my partner up; even without an alarm, whenever one of us becomes awake, the other tends to become awake too.

My partner is not into dreaming in the same way that I am, so interruptions to their sleep are not as welcome. I haven't done a WBTB in over five years as a result of this, anyway.

I think the best method is to start with an alarm. Maybe sleep on the couch? After a few days, you should be in the habit, and will wake up at that time automatically. Another option is to drink a lot of water before bed, then whenever you wake up to go to the bathroom, drink more. This will get you in the cycle of waking up after every dream to use the bathroom. Bonus - you'll have excellent hydration levels.

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

Bonus - you'll have excellent hydration levels.

And recall! Never forget about the recall.

Um ,yeah, I've got nothing else to add. Follow @MoonageDaydream's advice @DarkestDarkness. A glass of water before bed or close to it is all you need to wake up naturally. I'm probably awake up to 4 times during the night, which might be a little too much (it's a bad habit of mine... or good, it depends on how you look at it, but I do love drinking water a lot).

In fact, I'ma go grab another glass right now.

Originally Posted by DarkestDarkness

I did want to ask something to those here who mentioned WBTB and mid-sleep alarms, etc.

Do you have a partner/significant other with whom you sleep with? If you do, how do you deal with that aspect when setting an alarm for doing WBTBs? The main reason I haven't done these in years (which I did find effective in some senses) is that I can't reliably wake myself up without waking my partner up; even without an alarm, whenever one of us becomes awake, the other tends to become awake too.

My partner is not into dreaming in the same way that I am, so interruptions to their sleep are not as welcome. I haven't done a WBTB in over five years as a result of this, anyway.

Hi, I bought a watch from amazon that vibrates instead of bleeping. It has 8 spaces for alarms. This wakes me up without disturbing the wife, however we are both light sleepers so as soon as I move for my note pad which I keep by the side of my bed this usually disturbs her and if I get out of bed this too will disturb her. - sounds like your situation could be similar to mine.

In reply to your first post- Ive be been gradually reducing my efforts as I believe I was pushing too hard for LDs. This break has felt really! good and I think the shift in mood has been reflected in my dreams , with my dreams becoming more pleasant and dreamy. There has been more dream signs in them, so either there has always been this many and I’ve not noticed them or the relaxed approach is conducive to creativity and hence more DS.

What I’m gradually getting to is that the last two days I have done hardly any RCs focused more on self awareness but Still in a casual, easy going way and last night I felt like my dreams had more awareness in them I didn’t become lucid but I had 2 situations where just a little more reflection could have made me Lucid.- since easing up I already feel like progress is happening.

Originally Posted by Ant101

Hi, I bought a watch from amazon that vibrates instead of bleeping. It has 8 spaces for alarms. This wakes me up without disturbing the wife, however we are both light sleepers so as soon as I move for my note pad which I keep by the side of my bed this usually disturbs her and if I get out of bed this too will disturb her. - sounds like your situation could be similar to mine.

In reply to your first post- Ive be been gradually reducing my efforts as I believe I was pushing too hard for LDs. This break has felt really! good and I think the shift in mood has been reflected in my dreams , with my dreams becoming more pleasant and dreamy. There has been more dream signs in them, so either there has always been this many and I’ve not noticed them or the relaxed approach is conducive to creativity and hence more DS.

What I’m gradually getting to is that the last two days I have done hardly any RCs focused more on self-awareness but Still in a casual, easy-going way and last night I felt like my dreams had more awareness in them I didn’t become lucid but I had 2 situations where just a little more reflection could have made me Lucid.- since easing up I already feel like progress is happening.

That sounds like you are moving in the right direction. Keep up the great work!

Hi Ant101, I’m trying to induce DILDs also and still fairly new to lucid dreaming but I’ve started having some success so I thought I’d chip in with some of what I’ve learnt.

Like you I was practicing all the techniques I could hoping it would lead to lucidity. I wasn’t seeing any progress at first until I made a couple of significant changes. First off I relaxed my approach (I see you’ve done this recently) I still practiced the odd reality check through the day but I cut down from around 10 to no more then 5 and did these whenever something out of the ordinary happened in my daily life that made me think “hu? That’s odd?” (This is usually the feeling that triggers lucidity in my dreams) Other then that I stopped all day time practice and focused purely on the evening/ night. Before bed I’d spend a good hour getting excited about lucid dreaming by reading threads on Dream views or going over old DJ entries. This means it’s fresh in my mind and all I can think about before bed is getting lucid. Then as I’m laying in bed all I do is simply repeat my intent to get lucid or recall my dreams. Then I relax and go to sleep whilst thinking about lucid dreaming. I noticed a massive improvement in my recall, vividness and lucidity after doing this and I believe it’s down to a more relaxed, enjoyable and stress free approach and getting super excited about it before bed.

I noticed the first signs I was getting there when I started dreaming more vividly and seeing recurring dream signs. Then I started dreaming about lucid dreaming. I wasn’t lucid yet but a lot of my dreams had a lucid element to them. For example I had a dream I was talking to a friend about lucid dreaming and one where I asked a monk what the best mantra would be. The final step seemed to be I would notice things are odd in the dream but I couldn’t quite put my finger on why? (I see you’re here now and probably so close!) Then all of a sudden one night it happened I got lucid by noticing I was in New York even though I live in the UK. I did a reality check and became lucid and enjoyed my first DILD.

Now I’d like to say that’s all I had to do and lucidity came easily after that but it wasn’t the case. I didn’t start to see regular lucid dreams until I began WBTB. A few people have already suggested this and I believe it’s the best short cut to lucidity. I understand for some people this is difficult and maybe a big sacrifice but it really doesn’t have to take long. Just wake up, recall your dreams, maybe go to the toilet and then remind yourself you want to have a lucid dream with a mantra or just by setting your intent and then go back to sleep. I only usually wake for 5 minutes - 10 minutes tops and it greatly increases my chances especially in the early hours of the morning. It just helps to wake yourself up and remind yourself you want to get lucid. If you only do this before bed then you have to carry that intention through the night and it can be easily lost. I think to master DILDs without WBTB would require a lot of day time practice (I’m no expert though). I have also trained my mind to wake me up through the night to perform WBTB so I don’t need alarms. This can be achieved whilst intent setting before sleep and usually works for me. I sleep with my partner so I avoid alarms so I don’t wake her in the night which she wouldn’t appreciate!

So my main tips -

- Relax the approach
- Get excited about dreaming before bed
- Set an intent before bed
- WBTB for 5 minutes and remember the intent.

This is just my opinion based on my experience of course and may only work for me but it could work for you. I am now achieving on average 1 lucid dream a week with these methods. I understand your frustration and I still feel it often but it’s worth it when they do start coming. I think you’re nearly there from what you’ve said. So I hope you start getting regular lucids soon. 🙂