Thread: Soy is dangerous?

I don't have any experience with it, but soy is a phytoestrogen. If you really want to read about it, check this out.

I understand your point, soy has phytoestrogens so it helps women regulate hormone related issues, normal cycles and menopause problems.
From what I know is that it binds to the same oestrogen receptors blocking real oestrogen and you get more problems from real oestrogen, some scientists say. I have not heard until today about the negative effects of soy on men though. Soy is famous for various anti-cancer effects and is widely consumed in countries like Asia, where lower prevalence of certain cancers has been observed. It also lowers cholesterol levels. I suppose everything has the potential to be dangerous in large quantities, but I think a moderate amount of soy in your diet will do you more good than harm.

Yes, nycXX has it right. Soy is great for you, the bad aspects have been massively overstated. Obviously if you overdo anything, it will have bad effects.

Originally Posted by NyxCC

Soy is famous for various anti-cancer effects and is widely consumed in countries like Asia, where lower prevalence of certain cancers has been observed.

Now that's what I call science!

Hi

My doctor said that there was far too much D and Calcium in my blood and to stop taking those supplements. I take something that is easing my pain and healing my nerves and no way was I going to discontinue those pills.

So I Google abduction Google and discovered that high D and calcium in the blood causes serious heart problems. Many folk with Osteoporosis*("porous bones") are taking D and Calcium. It is building up in the blood leading to heart problems.

Then I discovered that K2 takes the D and Calcium out of the blood and into the bones, where it belongs.

Natto has the most (by far) K2. It is awful but I have one little box a day.

Oh ... Natto is fermented soy beans.

Natto aka Rancid, Stinky Soy Beans

***
Natto aka Rancid, Stinky Soy Beans - YouTube
***(9:39) 5 months old and 87,144 views

Originally Posted by Xei

Now that's what I call science!

Why soy is not a health food

***

Why Soy Is NOT a Health Food - YouTube

***(5:23) 438,866 views

The "show more" reads:

Internationally renowned natural health physician and Mercola.com founder Dr. Joseph Mercola provides review of the health problems with soy and why it is not the health food you were led to believe it is.

He says:

Tempeh, miso and natto are fermented soy and are safe.

I would say: Avoid GMO soy products. If you are a man you can eat it, just eat it moderation and don't rely on it solely for protein.

Originally Posted by Xei

Now that's what I call science!

Xei, sorry if I am just posting the end results of some scientific research, this is a summary after all. I don't have the time to write a paper on all the research that has been conducted. This is a forum on lucid dreaming and not a medical society.

I was quoting from my memory, but now I am including a rather long and comprehensive article on soy. Here a quote from the article:

Japan and China have lower rates of heart disease and many cancers than do Westerners. People have suggested this could be due to the soy in their diet. In response, soy opponents have often argued that the traditional Asian intake of soy is much lower than is commonly thought

Comprehensive Article on Soy

As you can see from it, both positive and negative effects have been documented, as with every compound on earth. I still hold the opinion that in moderate amounts it is good for you, but naturally, everybody would hold different opinions with regards to that.

If you strongly disagree with the common findings about soy, feel free to do some additional research and post back an extended version of it. I would be happy to read it!

PS: not all soy is genetically modified, or at least that's how it is supposed to be. Yet, you can never know for sure what they put in any food product whether it is chips, salad or soy. Now, that's not science but it's possibly true

There are hundreds of differences between Western and Asian people - genetics, to mention but one blindingly obvious and major thing. Saying that Asians having a lower cancer rate than Westerners is somehow evidence that... soy is good... is frankly bizarre. It doesn't have a semblance of statistical validity.

Sure, while there is some statistical validity of widely published soy and cancer research, the finding in the case of Asians may not account for other factors, like drinking green tea or eating more veggies, or as you pointed genetics. I agree with you on that, it does sound a bit like a weak argument, if you phrase it the way it is in the quote. However, other studies have found a decreased occurrence of certain cancers after soy usage in both Asian and non-Asian subjects.

Originally Posted by Xei

There are hundreds of differences between Western and Asian people - genetics, to mention but one blindingly obvious and major thing. Saying that Asians having a lower cancer rate than Westerners is somehow evidence that... soy is good... is frankly bizarre. It doesn't have a semblance of statistical validity.

NyxCC was just quoting the study he read, or the article on the study, anyway.

But yeah, I would say green tea is the more likely component, since there have been a heap of controlled studies on that and I haven't seen any with soy.

Also if anyone *cough* salty*ahem* wants to get in to a GMO debate, go dig up the GMO thread and post there. Also stop eating any food from the supermarket or any food farmers grow at all. And don't let me catch you buying seeds from the garden store either, I want you out picking wild berries.

Originally Posted by NyxCC

Sure, while there is some statistical validity of widely published soy and cancer research, the finding in the case of Asians may not account for other factors, like drinking green tea or eating more veggies, or as you pointed genetics. I agree with you on that, it does sound a bit like a weak argument, if you phrase it the way it is in the quote. However, other studies have found a decreased occurrence of certain cancers after soy usage in both Asian and non-Asian subjects.

The problem is that there are so many differences between societies, at least thousands. To just point out that "I guess there might be some cause-effect fallacy going on" isn't enough. There are so many differences that it's next to pointless to even propose that there may be a direct cause-effect relationship between any two qualities you may observe the society to have.

Even if multiple societies who consume a lot of soy products were shown to have decreased cancer rates, it still wouldn't be enough. It's just too likely that they're coincidences or both effects of the same cause. Like of having a healthy lifestyle, which itself involves hundreds of specific health factors (green tea, going outside more, eating organic foods, decreased stress, etc.) and any one of those hundreds of things could be the cause of the lower cancer rates.

Originally Posted by tommo

Also if anyone *cough* salty*ahem* wants to get in to a GMO debate, go dig up the GMO thread and post there. Also stop eating any food from the supermarket or any food farmers grow at all. And don't let me catch you buying seeds from the garden store either, I want you out picking wild berries.

What are you talking about?

Hi Dianeva, I don't want to be impolite by not replying to your post here, so I just want to say that I have completely exhausted myself on this topic. I agree with the things you say by the way. I think we may be kind of going in circles here, picking up on one sentence and not really giving useful advice to omidh who asked a specific question. So anyways, I think I will stop here, because there is really nothing more I can contribute to the subject. Take care!

It's fine, yeah I was joining in on picking apart that one detail that shouldn't have mattered. Sorry about that.