Thread: I need an army of lucid dreamers...

Ah Sageous, you're going to make me write a long rambling response again - you and I are cut from the same cloth and I've been in your position in forums many times in the past. I think we'd both enjoy a drink and horribly convoluted discussion about the universe - the kind that would make others want to bury themselves alive!

I'll start with the simple stuff, as for capitalizing on lucid dreaming - I certainly know that some of the self appointed "gurus" out there are quite willing to do or say anything to bump up their bank balance and make it all a bit of an ego trip for themselves. The reason I decided to put myself "out-there" in the first place was, to be frank, because it bothered me just as deeply as it does you. I wanted to get up in their faces and stop them from ruining a subject that I've loved as long as I can remember. I'd name names, but that would only stir things up - I'd rather fight them with quality and honesty. I think in the long run this is the approach which wins. I also never want to become a "guru", the thought bothers me deeply. I'm a human being like anyone else. We're all born with no idea why we're here, and we die probably with more questions than answers. The best I can offer is my passion and dedication to a subject, which hopefully gives me a little more insight than a layman - and ideally it is useful to others.

That said, I barely scrape by making a living as a writer and researcher. I'm not pushing for a sympathy vote at all, I'm just being honest. When I say lucid dreaming is my passion I mean it - I've adopted a very minimalistic lifestyle just so that I can survive doing what I love doing. I'd genuinely make more money flipping burgers. It's my choice though, and I love it and wouldn't change it for the world.

My sole aim in life is to leave something behind that has left the world somewhat wiser and hopefully a little improved. I don't care for money or possessions - if I won the lottery, I'd use it to invest in projects and my life would barely change (other than the huge relief of not having to be concerned about if I'll cover the next months rent).

With all that said, there is only so much you can achieve if you're focusing on survival. So of course my project is going to require funding to get off the ground. I'm not asking anyone here to agree to that, what I'm asking for is people to listen to what I'm going to offer, make their own minds up, and then if they like it either get on-board with it, or help spread the word. The latter is the most important actually.

I am going to be as blunt with you as you are with me, I think you're being a little too sensitive about me requesting an e-mail in order to let people know when something is launched. Most of us give our e-mails pretty readily - I expect my supermarket has mine. We basically have to do it for anything we wish to be involved with. There are strong anti-spam regulations and one of which requires me to share my home address with everyone who registers. So, I'm not asking for people to give me more than I'm willing to give in return. It's just the easiest means to share information directly. I trust that people won't abuse the information I share with them, and I'll certainly not abuse theirs.

As I've said I'm more than willing for feedback on the project and I'll drop into chat next week (if anyone is interested) so I can be more forthright about it all.

What I will say, is in it's simplest form going to be an ongoing resource and an ecosystem for lucid dreamers and those interested in our universe. It is also a means for me to create a self-fuelling system that will allow me to continue to invest time, energy and resources into expanding the subject. I have no intention of profiting, I do however need to survive in order to continue to invest all my time into doing this. I think that's fair and what is to be expected. With that in mind, the proof will be in the pudding - as the project itself will be launched as a crowd-funded campaign. So people can very easily decide if it's something they want in the world. So, this is why I am limited by time-scales and the need for a passionate group of lucid dreamers to help drive interest (if they like it) in the project.

If we really want lucid dreaming to develop, then it is important to have those who dedicate their lives to improving the subject - not those who abuse the subject to improve their lives.

I can understand that you fear I am the latter - but take a look at my history: I've released a book on the subject which I feel gives a balanced and honest introduction and I've instigated a worldwide celebration of lucid dreaming - which is funded out of my own pocket. But more importantly I have avoided advertising, selling endless junk e-books, useless on-line courses and I rarely if ever run workshops. I've also turned down numerous paying events that I felt were abusing the subject - why? Because I feel this is just people cashing in with regurgitated nonsense. I refuse to abuse my standards for profit. It would be SO easy to do, and I've had plenty of time in which I could have done this. But, I hate that kind of behaviour and I dearly wish to do my part to put and end to it and shame those who are involved in it.

Lucid dreaming deserves better. I'm only one person but I'll do what I can to make it so. I wholeheartedly support your approach in making me stand my ground - continue to do this, too many people in this field are in it because it can be a cash-cow and are rarely pulled up on it. I'm not offended that you feared that I was one of them (okay, I was a little, but mostly because I've spent so long being the one criticising them myself).

Hopefully you'll realise in this case that we're both on the same side and we both want to put an end to that nonsense once and for all.

To push lucid dreaming far beyond its boundaries sounds like an interesting idea. Will you inform only those that sign up? I rather wait and see what happens than sign up for something I'm not going to commit to.This actually reminds me of something else I came across the internet before where someone needed a whole lot of lucid dreamers to test out something shared dreaming related in a different website. But than again this could be something different. Thinking about it I wonder if its even possible to push lucid dreaming beyond its boundaries. What does pushing it beyond its boundaries mean if you can already do plenty of stuff in a lucid dream? Did you mean pushing beyond someones expectation of what is possible with lucid dreaming? Is your project going to focus on something physically related to lucid dreaming,beyond dreaming related or is it going to go both ways?

Well said, Daniel, and thank you; now I feel a little bad that I dragged all of that out of you... but just a little!

With the heartfelt assumption that we too are indeed navigating the world of LD'ing under the same sets of stars (how could we never have met?), I'll back off and assume that what you're planning will be a boon for the cause, first.

I don't use DV chat (for no real reason except that I can't get my brain to line up with its process), so I'll miss your comments there. I guess I'll have to sign up for the emails...

Again, good luck, and thanks for your patience... I'm not on board as a soldier yet, but at least the looming war now looks more like a Good one, so my curiosity is finally aroused.

Good luck!

@DreamCafe11

I'll be aiming to inform as much of the world as possible, signing up is just the means to be the very first to know everything. Don't worry, I'm not asking anyone to commit, you'll just be on an e-mail list that will receive a handful of e-mails to be informed when project is live. The point is so that you can choose if it's something that interests you or not at that point. I'm genuinely not expecting anything of anyone.

As for pushing boundaries, that's really hard to encapsulate in a short reply, and I've already written too much for Sageous today so my brain is a little fried!
In short, the boundaries of how it is used and experienced, how it intersects with our waking reality and how it is approached and taught as a subject. It won't be long until project is live, and I will explain things better their than I can muster in a quick forum reply.

It's amazing how much I've missed after being away from the forum for less than a week! Anyway, when I read the OP today I was going to write a long reply about being on the fence - on the one hand I'd like to participate in anything LD related I can relate to (i.e. everything other than metaphysical / spiritual interpretations), but on the other hand the secrecy raised several problems for me (like not being sure if it's a subject I can relate to, or how demanding it's going to be in terms of the commitment required, or the whole email requirement issue)... But than after reading the rest of the (long) posts in this thread, it's clear that there is literally nothing I can add to the discussion (though, to be clear, I have to agree with Sageous, Sensei, and others)... So to cut to the conclusion -

DanielLove, I'll be interested to participate as long as the project is something I can relate to (i.e. none spiritual), and depending on the commitment required. For now, I'll wait for further info that will resolve these two questions... But from your replies I'm now convinced that it's not an advertisement or publicity thing - so at least this issue seems to be cleared!

Feel free to PM me (which is referred to my email, btw) and I'm also present on the chat occasionally. I'll keep an eye for further info in this thread. If you need a summery of my current LDing "practice" - I keep a log in this thread:
Spock's lucid journey
or take a look at my DJ on the site.

Originally Posted by DanielLove

@DreamCafe11

I'll be aiming to inform as much of the world as possible, signing up is just the means to be the very first to know everything. Don't worry, I'm not asking anyone to commit, you'll just be on an e-mail list that will receive a handful of e-mails to be informed when project is live. The point is so that you can choose if it's something that interests you or not at that point. I'm genuinely not expecting anything of anyone.

As for pushing boundaries, that's really hard to encapsulate in a short reply, and I've already written too much for Sageous today so my brain is a little fried!
In short, the boundaries of how it is used and experienced, how it intersects with our waking reality and how it is approached and taught as a subject. It won't be long until project is live, and I will explain things better their than I can muster in a quick forum reply.

: D Ohhh. I see now. Thanks for replying and clearing up my confusion.It sounds like it will be better than what I thought it would be at first. I think I'll be patient and wait till you release the info to everybody but still looking forward to hearing more about it. ^^I'll probably check out the chat when you talk about it more with the others.

Am in !

Hi DanielLove, I have one way you can post more information on your project and have it visible to only some of us, and not visible to anyone who has not been either a key member of DV, or at least had an account for 3 years. What you can do is post a thread in the Talk To Staff area. That is only view-able by current staff. I can then re-post it in our Community section. Only members who have been teachers or staff, or have 3 years here could view that. It is an imperfect answer, as you are not part of that group, but it will allow Sageous, and I think Dolphin (past staff?) plus dozens of potential participants to read what ever you can share at this time. Anyone with ideas to share could then send you a PM.

I didn't think of that. But I don't think that would work. Members that have access to Community are not part of this thread and have no interest in it, and some that have interest are not part of "Community".

Those that are interested in talking to Daniel are welcomed to come to the chat. Daniel, maybe you can post here some of the time slots when you would be coming to chat so we can join you. For those that can't attend, I will post a chat log in here.

had an account for 3 years

〣( º - -º )〣.......

Sorry, just a random idea.

Daniel, really love your book. Most to-the-point thing I've ever read, and the section on history was fantastic. Real excited to join your project!

Hi everyone,

I just thought I'd let you all know that I'm absolutely snowed under for the next two days, there's a lot of work to be done in a very short period of time. So, this is just to let you know that I've not vanished - I'm just overworked. I'll be back and in a better position chat with you all either Tuesday night or Wednesday. I'll look forward to the welcome rest and your thoughts and ideas.

Awesome! Signed up! Love having exciting stuff like this happening in the lucid dreaming world, it's well, exciting

Personally for me, I like the mystery of it, will give me something to look forward to. Some mystery and surprise makes life more interesting

No idea who you are tbh, but anyone who can have a meaningful discourse when Sageous does his Sageous thing has got my attention.

Hi Daniel,
During my university studies I have often had a bad habit of coming up with excuses for not keeping my dream journal and practicing my induction techniques. As a result I have had a year long dry spell up until a few weeks ago and I have had way too many comatose nights without a single remembered dream (it is such a sad thing to awaken from marvelous adventures only to forget them). Over the next month I'm going to get back into shape and then I'll focus on pushing my dreaming beyond what I have been able to do before. Whatever you are planning Daniel it couldn't have come at a better timing. I've signed up and I'm excitedly waiting to learn more. I'll spend the next few weeks getting my recall back to top-notch.
Best regards Morten

Hey DanielLove, I thought I'd just mention that you showed up in a lucid of mine from ~1 hour ago.

I don't believe in shared-dreaming, but my dreaming mind likes to fantasize about it anyway, and I thought it's only fair to let you see it since you "were there" (and we'd made an agreement and all).

am in world, and see it's night in urban environment. some people are flying with jetpacks.

as i go around, i see it's illegal to use jetpacks in certain ages, areas, conditions or something, so people are trying to evade police-like people with guns that are patrolling [e.g. one person gets blown up with huge orb-explosion weapon, and a group of two were flying dangerously close and loud in park area where i saw police person]

we walk into area with crowd, and walk alongside someone. he seems like some sort of popular person or something. i start asking him about the jetpack restrictions, and he says something about it being from past incidents, but he gives the impression that he's a visitor like me, and i notice he looks kinda familiar.

"do I know you?" i ask.

he says, "no, I don't think so"

we keep walking, and I glance at him again

"are you sure? you look so familiar!" i say.

memory (half-fake) comes of seeing man on dream-views forum.

"No, I think I do know you. You're that person I spoke to... this morning, or yesterday. I was one of the last ones who posted in your thread."

"Which one?" he said.

"Wait, you tell me if you know", I say.

After a second, I realize we'd have to each give part to prove it's real, so add "you do first half, I'll do the second".

"ryxryx?" he says. (he just attempts whole thing...)

"Venryx", I say in correction.

"So close!" he said.

We then realized we had done it; we had met another person in dream.

We are shocked that we found each other, and i suggest we "wake up right now and tell everyone!", and he says, "ok!".

We do so, and I quickly realize I was being kind of silly (dream logic can be messy in lucids too), but whatever. Pleasant dream, interesting setting (for a nighttime one anyway).

[One... very important mistake in my memory while in-dream, of course, was that I had not in fact posted in your/this thread, before now...]

@VirtualReality - It's great to hear you're looking to get fully back into your dream explorations. Although, I do think that dry-spells are a perfectly natural part of a life; it's very difficult to keep up the levels of motivation required all the time, sometimes we just need a break and to come back to it with a fresh mind! I'd be very happy for your help with the project.

@Venryx - Ha fantastic! I'm not a believer in shared dreaming either. I've had a few experiences that seemed interestingly close, but nothing that couldn't be easily explained through a combination of familiarity with those involved, similar interests and lifestyles, and the natural human tendency to look for connections. It's a fun concept to daydream about though - although I think I prefer living in a world where our minds are our own and our thoughts are private.

It seems like a fun dream, with all the usual quirks and peculiar logic/memory issues that plague them. Curiously and coincidentally, it reminds me a lot of a dream from about a year ago, which involved flying around a futuristic cityscape with a jetpack.


So, here's an update for everyone: The attempt at making a video was a day of frustration and not much of value was achieved. It is frustrating as a writer that to pitch an idea on-line requires one to be a high calibre film-maker as well. It's a shame we don't live in a world where ideas can be assessed on their own merit and not the flashiness of a video. Still, it's a challenge and a good chance to learn a few new skills. I'll keep you all update when this hurdle has been overcome (wish me luck!).

Anyhow, video or not, I'm at a point where I'd be more than happy to get a little help and feedback from you all, but I'm not 100% sure of the best way to go about it.

EDIT: It seems a little quiet here tonight, so I'll pop back another time with more information.

Just signed up. I'm not entirely sure I'll be able to give 100% once it starts though, as I'm transitioning into a new job now that I'm out of college, so I don't know how much time I'll have to dedicate once that starts up, but I'm willing to give it a shot.

Hey spellbee2 - Thanks for the interest! Don't worry, the initial stages will just require those who like the idea to help share the news. Deeper involvement is still quite a bit further down the road.

I quite enjoyed your book and I look forward to anything that truly advances lucid dreaming in the minds of more people…I feel rather alone trying to discuss it with most people in person.

Originally Posted by DanielLove

So, here's an update for everyone: The attempt at making a video was a day of frustration and not much of value was achieved. It is frustrating as a writer that to pitch an idea on-line requires one to be a high calibre film-maker as well. It's a shame we don't live in a world where ideas can be assessed on their own merit and not the flashiness of a video. Still, it's a challenge and a good chance to learn a few new skills. I'll keep you all update when this hurdle has been overcome (wish me luck!).

I don't know how feasible this is (hey it worked for a fictional tv character, Saul Goodman, after all ) but perhaps you can find a few film or video editing students that will help you out.

Please post potential chat times if you can.

Well I never read your book but then I never read LaBerge's either. However, certainly I have to say that one of the most important things in my success (aside from supplements, napping, and trying to be stress free) is stuff related to Cycle Adjustment Technique. I don't really use the technique per se, but some variation on it has been critical to most of my success for intentional lucid dreaming. (I suppose LaBerge deserves some credit for MILD too )

So you haven't said what you need the army for, but what kind of recruits are you looking for then? As in what kind of lucid dreamers, what skills etc. If you want supplement free WILD experts I'm not your kinda soldier.

I'll try to hang out in chat a bit late nite Pacific time
(WBTC) Wake Back To Chat style!

So, I am guessing we are talking about a new kickstarter project of some kind here. Are we not ?

***Link Removed***

@cooleymd The kind of recruits I'm looking for are just average, passionate lucid dreamers. Initially I just need people to help spread the word, after that I'll be wanting lucid dreamers of all levels of skill and interest to be more involved in sharing their thoughts, techniques, skills, creativity and who knows what else. I've got ambitious plans but we'll have to take small steps first, after all, I have no idea if anyone even wants something like this.

@Narratick Yes exactly, like I mentioned in my post to Sageous earlier, it'll be a project that will be crowd-funded initially. I'm not primarily asking Dreamviews members to be funders (although of course that would be helpful), I need people to help spread the word and also be involved directly in the project itself. It's nothing like that earlier Kickstarter link you shared - although, the good news on that front is that off the back of the interest that campaign generated, the Saint-Denys book has now been fully translated into English.

@Fogelbeis - I had trouble logging into the chat, so I'm not quite sure what I'm doing wrong there. I'm going to be working late again tonight, so I'll be popping back to the forum on my breaks.