Thread: Are you mean online?

Indeed.

The Internet can be a great indicator of how terribly certain people are raised that may not be as apparent in real life. I've been immersed in Internet idiocy so often I've come to filter out most of it. If they're malicious towards others, it's likely an indicator of internal strife which I myself am not burdened with. Their loss, not mine.

^ Totally deep, dude.

I'm somewhat immersed in it, since I've been on the internet since I was 12 or so. If it was only text, it wouldn't be much of a problem. It gets to me though when I can hear their angry voices insulting me. It starts to feel more like someone is insulting me in person.

Originally Posted by Dianeva

Playing this game has lowered my opinion of humanity in general. I used to think that almost everyone has a built-in sense decency, and would feel bad for making others feel bad, but so many people, it seems 1/8 at least in the game I'm playing, will easily show animalistic cruelty.

Welcome to life outside your bubble. I should hope that you never tread the open fields of Omegle, bask in the lands of Chat Roulette, or encounter any wanderers from the clans of /b/.

Do you agree that humans really are this bad? Will any of you admit to being one of these people?

Or worse. Yes. I am one of these people. I have exhibited racism, bigotry, extreme apathy (all of which can be condensed to stupidity) on anonymous chat sites like the two I mentioned above. No race or gender is immune to my path of lulz extracting destruction.

How do I justify it? It keeps me sane. I can expel the most horrible stuff on those "internet garbage cans" to get laughs and go about my merry little day.

What if the tables were turned on me? They often are. And it's FUNNY. Someone who wants to dish it out but can't take it back should be off getting tucked in and read happily ever after bedtime stories by their mum. I thoroughly enjoy the process because it's a battle of trolling and wits (two words which mentioned in a single sentence can implode the universe!). The game is to out troll the other person and if you're really good at this form of.. "art?" then you understand it's just the internet, it's funny, it's not meant to be sincere (I hope), and it's just fun and games. Who knows, maybe your local priest was one of the people you encountered?

Tom the white guy might be a regular square at work. When he gets off, he can't wait to jump on a game or hit up Omegle and yell the biggest NNIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEERRRRRRR!! that he can. This will cause me and Tom to share a mutually enjoyable laugh while I attempt to out troll him and win the internetz point.

If these types of things bother you people, you're not prepared for the internet. Because this type of stuff isn't going away.

“The Internet is the first thing that humanity has built that humanity doesn't understand, the largest experiment in anarchy that we have ever had.” - Eric Schmidt

an·ar·chy

   /ˈænərki/ Show Spelled[an-er-kee] Show IPA
–noun 1. a state of society without government or law.

2. political and social disorder due to the absence of governmental control: The death of the king was followed by a year of anarchy.

3. a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.

4. confusion; chaos; disorder: Intellectual and moral anarchy followed his loss of faith.

Originally Posted by Franklin

It's like when men say they would rape a woman if they didn't get caught, why would you ever want to rape a woman in the first place?

Er... what men say that? I know I couldn't do it.

Franklin, contextually.. completely different. Nowhere remotely similar. Not even in the same universe as being similar.

For shame.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. ~ Oscar Wilde.

Hidden behind a veil of anonymity, the true natures of people are revealed -- the actions taken when consequences evaporate. I have friends online, and I'm always nice to them. I genuinely don't want to hurt them or see them get hurt. But when I'm anonymous and debating some other anonymous person, I let loose. It is partially for this reason that I have multiple aliases. I am free to live out any number of secret double-lives without anyone being able to judge me for them. It is also a big reason why I go to such lengths to protect my anonymity.

Besides that, it's fun. Anyone who has spent more than half an hour in a chat room learns to not take things personally. It's the bloody internet. You don't know them, and unless you were monumentally stupid and dropped your contact info on a place like 4chan, they don't know you. You might as well be arguing against a machine. And there is always the possibility that the people you argue with are only making shit up in order to provoke you or the masses.

Of course, there are times when said monumental stupidity can ruin lives. In cases like these, there is one massive anonymous entity pitted against one person of known identity. These situations rarely turn out well. In response to this, some push for the removal of anonymity. The ability to track internet users in whatever they do, sometimes going as far as to issue each person a "license" to use the internet. This is not the solution. Awareness is the answer. Being aware that if you make your contact information available, or post a picture of yourself, that information becomes available to the world. Hand out your information to only those who you trust. Don't use facebook, or at the very least, protect your profile and don't blindly accept every friend request that comes your way. Change your passwords frequently. It doesn't take much to prevent a tragedy...just common sense.

Originally Posted by Jeff777

“The Internet is the first thing that humanity has built that humanity doesn't understand, the largest experiment in anarchy that we have ever had.” - Eric Schmidt

That's a good quote.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. ~ Oscar Wilde.

As is this.

The internet is similar to alcohol in that way. It is an inhibition remover.
Have you ever looked around at all the drunks babbling about nothing and getting angry over similar nothings?
Or trying to initiate sex with someone who does not want to have sex?
Does this sight fill you with disgust for the human race?
Well, that is what the human race is like. On a whole.

Maybe it's the fact that I saw some guy masturbating over my text in yahoo chat when I was 8 years old, but I think
all this is unmatched hilarity. Because we are laughing at ourselves when we laugh at these people. WE know that this
is what we are really like.

Some people try to deny it of course, which leads to your state of mind.

Originally Posted by Jeff777

What if the tables were turned on me? They often are. And it's FUNNY.

I like it too, but I don't like when people get all serious.

Originally Posted by Jeff777

What if the tables were turned on me? They often are. And it's FUNNY. Someone who wants to dish it out but can't take it back should be off getting tucked in and read happily ever after bedtime stories by their mum. I thoroughly enjoy the process because it's a battle of trolling and wits (two words which mentioned in a single sentence can implode the universe!). The game is to out troll the other person and if you're really good at this form of.. "art?" then you understand it's just the internet, it's funny, it's not meant to be sincere (I hope), and it's just fun and games. Who knows, maybe your local priest was one of the people you encountered?

If these types of things bother you people, you're not prepared for the internet. Because this type of stuff isn't going away.

This "that's just how the internet is - dont use if it you can't deal with it" claim is subjective. That isn't how I view it. You could just as well say that about real life. You could insult people on the streets with your 'wit', and when they get reasonably upset as most people would, you could claim that they just don't understand the 'game' and don't get that they aren't supposed to take it seiriously. If I was saying that these people's decency on the internet should be monitored in some way, then I'd understand your response, but I'm not. I've experienced how it is and I continue to choose to use the internet and play the games I am. If I observe that people are acting indecent, I can point out that I find there's something wrong with it, and maybe there is. The internet is an amazing thing and shouldn't be reserved only for people void of the emotional capacity to be hurt.

Sorry, the internet dictates I do this:



It's fine to have a range of emotions, but there's no reason to get all butthurt over what some jackass says to you online. You'll never know who he is and can't do a damn thing about it. So why let him bug you? Why give him that sort of power? It's a cold reality we live in, but give it a bit more time, and your skin will toughen. You'll find yourself able to brush off comments that used to hurt you like they were nothing. Take them for what they are: grains of salt.

Originally Posted by Jeff777

asdf

You're mistaking successful trolling for griefing. Griefing can be used as an instrument of trolling but trolling doesn't always involve griefing. eg. Concerned Mother. A troll isn't simply an unpleasant individual. Stephen Colbert is a perfect example of a successful troll and Bill O'Rielly is a perfect example of a jackass. Big difference, dawgz.

Originally Posted by Jeff777

or encounter any wanderers from the clans of /b/.

Not everyone who browses /b/ is an asshat. =/

Originally Posted by Dianeva

This "that's just how the internet is - dont use if it you can't deal with it" claim is subjective. That isn't how I view it. You could just as well say that about real life. You could insult people on the streets with your 'wit', and when they get reasonably upset as most people would, you could claim that they just don't understand the 'game' and don't get that they aren't supposed to take it seiriously. If I was saying that these people's decency on the internet should be monitored in some way, then I'd understand your response, but I'm not. I've experienced how it is and I continue to choose to use the internet and play the games I am. If I observe that people are acting indecent, I can point out that I find there's something wrong with it, and maybe there is. The internet is an amazing thing and shouldn't be reserved only for people void of the emotional capacity to be hurt.

Why do you let people get to you? Why does what some almost random person says hurt you?
I suspect that maybe you have never been insulted much IRL.
OR you've been insulted way too much so now every little things gets to you.

Either way, you need to realise that these people don't even know you, they have no idea what you are like, so their insults mean nothing, except that you made a mistake in the game. They are just exaggerating their discontent. That is all.

"Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sounds and fury, signifying nothing."

Originally Posted by GavinGill

You're mistaking successful trolling for griefing. Griefing can be used as an instrument of trolling but trolling doesn't always involve griefing. eg. Concerned Mother. A troll isn't simply an unpleasant individual. Stephen Colbert is a perfect example of a successful troll and Bill O'Rielly is a perfect example of a jackass. Big difference, dawgz.

Hm. If I'm understanding you correctly, I disagree in your assertion that the term griefing is appropriate when used outside of the online gaming world. Though the OP started off about online gaming, I took her spill to encompass being mean online as a whole. If I am correct in my assumptions, the term trolling is best suited for harassment outside the gaming world, griefing for inside.

Originally Posted by GavinGill

Not everyone who browses /b/ is an asshat. =/

I don't believe I said any of them were.

Well I suppose I envy you people who can just say, "right now I decide to feel this," and feel it. It's rare that feeling anything negative can lead to good outcomes, but we feel genuinely bad about things anyway, and can't control it without extreme conscious effort. You're reminding me of when people say crying isn't going to help. As if that's the reason peole cry, because they think it's going to help.

Yes, I realize there's no reason to 'let it get to me', and believe me, I don't try to feel bad. When it happens, I try to convince myself as much as I can that it doesn't matter. I've talked aloud to myself when it happens, saying it's fine, they're just internet people and get mad at everyone for fun. But the almost physical feeling of sinking depression is still there.

Originally Posted by Jeff777

Er... what men say that? I know I couldn't do it.

Franklin, contextually.. completely different. Nowhere remotely similar. Not even in the same universe as being similar.

For shame.

I think it was some like 26% of college men would rape a woman if they wouldn't get caught.

Anyhow, like I also said in that post, raping a woman and being mean online are obviously very different in practice and I would rather have someone be mean to me than rape me (duh), but I was mostly trying to point out mentality behind it, the obsession with not getting caught for causing harm to someone else.

Joe Blow goes online and, having anonymity, is an asshole to everyone because he's not going to get caught. Joe Shmo has a chance to rape a woman and, somehow, he's not going to get caught.
Just because you're not going to get caught, that's a good reason to insult or injure another human? Why would you want to do that in the first place? "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.", etc.
I don't know, it just baffles me how desensitized everyone is. I just can't compute the idea of taking joy in calling others obscene things, verbally attacking them, physically harming them, etc.

It's crass and obnoxious and I will not deal with it or learn to cope, and I won't kick and scream at anyone who takes a jab at trolling me either.

Everything is ridiculous. More friends for me, I guess.

"Hell is other people."

Well, Franklin, I assume that everyone bags the shit out of each other in games because they don't think the other person is going to get hurt. Not because they intentionally want to hurt the other person.

Now if someone was hurt by something I said, and they told me, I would obviously stop hurting them.

Originally Posted by Franklin

I think it was some like 26% of college men would rape a woman if they wouldn't get caught.

Provide a link, please.

Anyhow, like I also said in that post, raping a woman and being mean online are obviously very different in practice and I would rather have someone be mean to me than rape me (duh), but I was mostly trying to point out mentality behind it, the obsession with not getting caught for causing harm to someone else.

So the mentality of rape and online agression operate under the same emotion that drives men to obsess over getting away with beating his fellow man down?

Originally Posted by Dianeva

Yes, I realize there's no reason to 'let it get to me', and believe me, I don't try to feel bad. When it happens, I try to convince myself as much as I can that it doesn't matter. I've talked aloud to myself when it happens, saying it's fine, they're just internet people and get mad at everyone for fun. But the almost physical feeling of sinking depression is still there.

If that's happening, then I'd say you have an issue you need to work on.

I mentioned above how it wasn't cool being yelled at over Xbox Live by bigots. And it wasn't; it's distracting and annoying to have some racist moron yelling in my ear. But I don't take any of the insults seriously and think less of myself because of it.

When I was playing WoW a few months ago, I made a mistake when fighting a boss I was new to, because I had misunderstood what someone had written. This caused the majority of the group to get extremely irritated with me, and they overreacted by calling me an idiot, a moron, and so on. I explained that the instruction was ambiguous which was the cause of the misunderstanding, and learned from the mistake. The rest of the dungeon went perfectly. I made a mistake and I corrected that, and filtered out the rest.

Obviously they overreacted, but looking back I can see why they did react in that way. From their perspective, they explained things clearly to me, and I failed to follow them. That is actually a serious problem within the playerbase and happens a lot (someone actually asking for tactics as I did when they don't know is a rarity in itself), and it's understandable that they would get annoyed when they thought this was what happened. However, in this case they were actually mistaken in thinking I was one of the regular idiots who couldn't comprehend a simple instruction and has no idea how to play.

Words have no power over you if you don't believe them. Only when you do can they affect you.

I go on the imdb boards a lot, and have found that if I make a simple statement about a movie, people will practically kill me with full-blown, rude essays about why I'm wrong, or why I'm stupid. People do tend to be meaner online, but I really don't get it. I'm not that much meaner online unless someone really gets in my face. Not literally, of course.

Originally Posted by khh

"Hell is other people."

Sartre? Liked that little book. Good point.

I don't have a link, I read it in an article in the Vancouver Sun or The Province (local paper) earlier this year, or maybe at the end of last year. I don't remember, in any case, scratch out the rape example because my point still stands without it.

When someone is mean online because they are anonymous/are not going to get caught, my concern is, why would they ever want to verbally abuse someone in the first place? Why would they find that funny? Where is the humor in insulting someone? Do they have a difficult time imagining the person on the other end? Do they have a difficult time putting themselves in their place? Maybe they do that and think, "Well I can handle it, why can't they?", like everyone has completely forgotten about diversity and personalities. Can we ban shy, introverted people from the internet? Of course not, etc etc, my thoughts on the matter/attempts to understand it could run forever, and because I take joy in helping others both online and offline, I don't think I could ever understand it. I'm not trying to make a solid argument, just expressing my generally upset opinion.

And Tommo, I'm thinking more of the trolls and similar people who purposely try to bother others and cause trouble because they enjoy it. Someone overreacting over another player's mistake is different, I think (I still don't agree with it, but it's more understandable).

Originally Posted by Franklin

(bunch of questions and stuff)

Dunbar's number - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In other words, the people we see as actually being people. It is estimated that we can only see about 300 people in our lives as being actual people. After that, they become numbers or service providers, and little more. Do you think of your garbage man as an actual person, or just that guy that comes to pick up your trash? When you hear about a disaster that wiped out 300 million people, do you feel sadness for every single person, as if one of your friends just died a million times over? So yeah, it's hard to imagine the person sitting on the other end of a keyboard as an actual human being. I'm struggling to do it with anyone here. Conversely, when you actually meet a person face-to-face and realize they have a unique personality with thoughts and feelings and all that fun stuff, you let them into your monkey sphere. You aren't mean to them just because society demands you be nice...it's actually quite a bit harder. You lose the desire to be mean. Also, they can reach out and punch you if you piss them off, but I'm fairly certain that's not related so much to the monkey sphere.